Helm, Leino, Lids, and Datsyuk info

[Konnan511 1,736]

Link

The Wings might think playing Helm 20 minutes a night in Grand Rapids would better his development.

Helm understands that, but doesn't necessarily agree with it. "I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to be happy if I do go down there, but I know it might happen and I have to live with it and work harder to get back up here," Helm said. "It's the way things happen sometime."

The Wings want Leino to go strong to the net and that's exactly what he did on his goal. "He has great hands. He just has to skate and go to the net," Babcock said. "He's an NHL player in waiting."

"Coaches and players told me to go more to the net," Leino said. "It's been hard to feel comfortable but I got a lot of instruction and I feel like I'm getting used to it. I just want to make the team and I'm trying to do that. We'll see what happens."

Lidstrom said he is hoping to play in an exhibition game this weekend. The Wings play Friday, Saturday and Sunday. The regular-season opener is Oct. 9. "I've got to go see a doctor about the nose," Lidstrom said. "We'll see what he says about it. I'd like to get into some games before the regular season starts." As for whether he plans to keep the visor long term, Lidstrom said, "I'll see how it feels. There's a possibility, yeah. I'm going to wear it a few times and try to get used to it."

Pavel Datsyuk sat out, bothered by a sore groin. Babcock is being careful with Datsyuk, although Babcock does expect Datsyuk to play later this week. "We didn't think he had anything the other day, we were cautious," Babcock said. "He came in (today) and he was sore. We can't fool around this time of the year."

[theman19 47]

i'm just curious how long it is before we get a reputation around the league amongst young players that it's Damn near impossible to crack and stay in our lineup.

Quincy had a great playoffs in 07, didn't even get a call up afterwards

Howard has been waiting for years to prove himself,...instead we sign Ty Conkiln

Now we have helm who dispite being a force of nature on our 4th line, is gonna spend time in Grand Rapids for who knows how long.

I'm not saying any of these choices arn't the right ones (so seriously there's no need to debate if they are), i don't know a thing about how to run a hockey team, obviously the brass does given our success.

I'm just thinking out loud about this, you know these guys are getting frustrated.

[Hank Dats 'N Homer 81]

i'm just curious how long it is before we get a reputation around the league amongst young players that it's Damn near impossible to crack and stay in our lineup.

Quincy had a great playoffs in 07, didn't even get a call up afterwards

Howard has been waiting for years to prove himself,...instead we sign Ty Conkiln

Now we have helm who dispite being a force of nature on our 4th line, is gonna spend time in Grand Rapids for who knows how long.

I'm not saying any of these choices arn't the right ones (so seriously there's no need to debate if they are), i don't know a thing about how to run a hockey team, obviously the brass does given our success.

I'm just thinking out loud about this, you know these guys are getting frustrated.

Yeah i agree with that. It seems like our prospects sure spend alot of time in the AHL. I dont think tis because they arent good enough or that organization doesnt trust them, its just obvious that alot of good players want to play in a good hockey city like detroit, so we get guys like Conklin and hossa and others (like hull and shanny) that come later in their careers and take the spots of some of our young talent. Theres nothing wrong with it, its natural i guess, but man would i be frustrated if i was drafted by the red wings and wasnt an all around stud who was guaranteed to be playing that year because if you arent you know you are stuck in the minors till half the team retires haha. Im sure that reputation is already well known by most players, and im sure its obvious to ther fans when we continue to get big name signings and win cups every few years. Theres defnietly a correlation there, and it spells bad news for red wings prospects haha. Many of our prospects could probably crack the Tigers lineup in a shorter ammount of time than it will take them to crack the Wings lineup....and alot of our prospects are from europe where baseball isnt exactly a well known or well played sport haha.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

i'm just curious how long it is before we get a reputation around the league amongst young players that it's Damn near impossible to crack and stay in our lineup.

Quincy had a great playoffs in 07, didn't even get a call up afterwards

Howard has been waiting for years to prove himself,...instead we sign Ty Conkiln

Now we have helm who dispite being a force of nature on our 4th line, is gonna spend time in Grand Rapids for who knows how long.

I'm not saying any of these choices arn't the right ones (so seriously there's no need to debate if they are), i don't know a thing about how to run a hockey team, obviously the brass does given our success.

I'm just thinking out loud about this, you know these guys are getting frustrated.

One of thre reasons Restricted status is huge for the Wings. When the Wings draft a kid plenty would move on very early due to how long it takes to crack the lineup if they didn't have RFA status.

That being said, being around the organization for as long as they are before they're able to make a decision to move on generally gives them enough time to realize how lucky they are to be in Detroit.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

i'm just curious how long it is before we get a reputation around the league amongst young players that it's Damn near impossible to crack and stay in our lineup.

Quincy had a great playoffs in 07, didn't even get a call up afterwards

Howard has been waiting for years to prove himself,...instead we sign Ty Conkiln

Now we have helm who dispite being a force of nature on our 4th line, is gonna spend time in Grand Rapids for who knows how long.

I'm not saying any of these choices arn't the right ones (so seriously there's no need to debate if they are), i don't know a thing about how to run a hockey team, obviously the brass does given our success.

I'm just thinking out loud about this, you know these guys are getting frustrated.

The situation with Quincey was muddled by the fact that Meech and Quince are more or less on an even playing field, despite playing different games, so it came down to who could be exposed to the waiver wire.

As for Howard, he needs more time. Osgood has only proved himself a starter again this past season. You need more veteran insurance than simply Howard alone. Theres no doubt in my mind that the coaching staff would be more willing to have Howard on hand as back-up if our #1 was more solidified. And this isn't a knock against Osgood. Its just that hes had a few rollercoaster years and he'll be 36 soon.

And as for Helm, what do you expect? Zetterberg didnt make the team til he was 22. And this is Zetterberg we're talking about. Helm looks to be much better than simply a 4th line guy, but our 3rd line is stacked. So why stick him on the 4th line playing 6 minutes a night when hes still so young? He should be welcomed to the team when he can, as a youngster, get bigger minutes on this team. It makes more sense for him to get 20 minutes this year in GR, and then maybe 10-12 next year on the third line, as opposed to 6 minutes this year and 10-12 next year.

One of the likeliest scenarios regarding our forward lines next year is for Hossa to leave, and for the Wings to let Sammy go. That situation lends itself to reassembling the ZDH line, giving Filppula the 2nd center position (if he isnt ready by then, then we have issues) and then giving Helm the 3rd line center position, which he could probably handle as of now, with Leino taking Sammys 3rd line winger slot.

[skacore 2]

I agree with theman19 on some points, but at the same time that's why the team is so competitive every year and does so well, but where should they draw the line?

It's irritating to hear Babcock constantly say that the best players are going to play, because they're not, why lie to everyone? It may not be Babcock's decision, but clearly other things factor into the equation like waiver eligibility, salaries, reputations/past achievements, etc.

There's no way Darren Helm isn't a top 12 forward on the team, most nights in the playoffs he was one of the best players out there. To a lesser extent, Quincey did the same the year before.

Samuelsson scored 11 goals last year on 249 shots playing with elite playmakers and getting quality PP time. 238 unsuccessful shots (give or take) AND he misses the net more than anyone else on the team, that's a lot of wasted opportunities on an elite puck possession team. His cap hit isn't bad at all but am I the only one who feels like he's been a placeholder until something better comes along? I can't say because I haven't been able to watch training camp or the preseason yet, but is Ville Leino that guy? I'd say he'd have to go WAAAY up and beyond to drop Samuelsson down on the depth chart, very unlikely.

Then there's Ericsson, "the best players will play" will be a joke when he's in Grand Rapids while Lebda, Lilja, Meech, Quincey, and Chelios are all seeing time in Detroit. I understand it's because he's protected from waivers and he'll get a lot of ice time which is probably best for his development, but quit lying and telling everyone that the best players will play, because they likely won't.

And again, I haven't seen training camp so I can't really chime in but Jimmy Howard is another guy in the situation, he'd have to be incredible to bump Ty Conklin to #3 in the system, not gonna happen.

[Doggy 130]

i'm just curious how long it is before we get a reputation around the league amongst young players that it's Damn near impossible to crack and stay in our lineup.

Quincy had a great playoffs in 07, didn't even get a call up afterwards

Howard has been waiting for years to prove himself,...instead we sign Ty Conkiln

Now we have helm who dispite being a force of nature on our 4th line, is gonna spend time in Grand Rapids for who knows how long.

I'm not saying any of these choices arn't the right ones (so seriously there's no need to debate if they are), i don't know a thing about how to run a hockey team, obviously the brass does given our success.

I'm just thinking out loud about this, you know these guys are getting frustrated.

Let's keep things in perspective with Helm. He was great in the playoffs for us. But it was playing 5 or so minutes with no responsibilities and the opposition's worst defense. It's not like he's ready to carry the team on his shoulders. He's far from a proven commodity. Let him develop.

[theman19 47]

Let's keep things in perspective with Helm. He was great in the playoffs for us. But it was playing 5 or so minutes with no responsibilities and the opposition's worst defense. It's not like he's ready to carry the team on his shoulders. He's far from a proven commodity. Let him develop.

I'm fairly confident i kept it in perspective by putting "on our 4th line" behind there. No he probably isn't able to carry the team on his back,..yes what you just said is true,..but i wasn't saying anything in contrast to that. However, he managed to get noticed on the 4th line,..playing 5 min. a night,..and also managed to make solid scoring chances and even score some goals on the biggest stage in the nhl, the finals. So i think i'm keeping a pretty good perspective after all.

[Doggy 130]

I'm fairly confident i kept it in perspective by putting "on our 4th line" behind there. No he probably isn't able to carry the team on his back,..yes what you just said is true,..but i wasn't saying anything in contrast to that. However, he managed to get noticed on the 4th line,..playing 5 min. a night,..and also managed to make solid scoring chances and even score some goals on the biggest stage in the nhl, the finals. So i think i'm keeping a pretty good perspective after all.

Lol. You called him a force of nature. But okay.

[Guest MrSandMan]

Our depth is amazing. A lot of our AHL guys would be HUGE on other NHL teams. Glad we got 'em.

[DatsyukownzU13 1]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...stined_for.html

Sounds to me like they are both GR bound and that line they assembled for the Exhibition game could definitely be a sign of the first line in GR. I'm guessing they kind of decided to send them both down before the game and then stuck that line together to see how they play together. They generated a lot of O so I wouldn't be suprised to see that line the #1 in GR.

Leino - Helm - Haydar

[Aussie_Wing 354]

As each game goes by I think Helm is just too good to be playing in the AHL and it would be a waste for him to be down there. He had an excellent playoff run, has points in both the pre-season games he's played, so really there's not a lot more he can do. I just wish we would make room for him in Detroit, he's clearly NHL ready and having him wait can only lead to frustration. I honestly think we'll have an identical situation to what happened with Filppula, impressed during pre-season, was sent down and only lasted 3 games before proving he's just too good for that level and belongs in the NHL. If Helm manages to get a call-up early, there won't be any turning back, he'll be here for good.

[irishtemper14+25 11]

i really hope leino makes the club

[redwinger4747 6]

As far as im concerned, sit Z, Dats, and Lids until Oct. 9. They don't need preseason and we dont need them injured.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

i really hope leino makes the club

There's no way he will now, but he will eventually. Reading all of Babcock’s comments about him lead me to believe that he has faith in his ability to succeed in the NHL just as long as he continues to work hard, drives to the net and learns to deal with the speed. Babs is normally pretty ruthless and lets everyone know what he is thinking, and he’s come out a few times and said how Leino can succeed in the NHL with a bit more work.

There’s no doubt he’ll start the season with the Griffins though, and the main question will then be how long is he prepared to stay there? If he’s willing to stay there for a while and hone his skills, Babs will reward him and in time he’ll make it with the Wings.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Waivers.

Waivers, waivers, waivers.

Helm does not have to deal with and worry about being claimed off waivers by another team right now. He's only in his early twenties. As long as he doesn't have a career threatening injury and his doesn't go down the tubes, he'll eventually be playing with the big boys full-time sooner than later.

Playing nearly 20 minutes in the minors is better for his development though vs. 5 minutes a game with the big boys given his young age and not having to worry about waivers.

[theman19 47]

Waivers.

Waivers, waivers, waivers.

Helm does not have to deal with and worry about being claimed off waivers by another team right now. He's only in his early twenties. As long as he doesn't have a career threatening injury and his doesn't go down the tubes, he'll eventually be playing with the big boys full-time sooner than later.

Playing nearly 20 minutes in the minors is better for his development though vs. 5 minutes a game with the big boys given his young age and not having to worry about waivers.

i mean we all know that. The fans know it, the coaching staff knows it, ultimately the players know it. It's what's best if a player wants to be their best in the NHL.

But my original point was how that must effect our players mindstate.

"Oh btw, you've shown enough talent to separate you from 99% of the hockey population but we're going to keep you in the minors until we absoutly have to use you or trade you, so 23-24 ought to do it. Oh and while you're in the minors we're going to pay you 500K less than you'd make up in the big club even though you're going to play three times as much. It's good for your development".

Looking at from the eyes of a 19 year old prospect (not saying helm or any of the other guys do,..just saying what i'd see at 19) puts it in a different light right or wrong.

[Shutemdown 23]

I could see Helm getting a little furstrated, just because he's had a taste of the big leagues, and he thrived completely. There wasn't a single catch in his step. He took the opportunity and ran with it. He exceeded his expectations.

If I had been in that situation, getting praise and recognition from a team and it's fans, I'd be pretty bummed having to go back to GR. For someone that grew up dreaming of playing professional hockey, that's gotta be demoralizing at times. Either way, it will test his devotion to the team... put in the time, be patient, and you will be rewarded.

Leino's still too new to be given a spot on the roster this year. He's still too unproven. He's had spurts of brilliance, and has drawn praise from Babs and the rest of the team, but he still needs time to prove he's earned a spot. There are too many other people that have been waiting in line for a chance to just give it to him straight up.

Howard's been training forever, but, like someone else said, he still needs work. Even Ozzie had to re-evaluate his play style and almost "re-invent" himself a couple years ago because he was streaky at times. It can take upwards of 5 years to train a goalie... and in some cases even more. He will be given his chance in time... and if he can't cut it, we've got VERY promising goaltenders in Daniel Larsson and Thomas McCollum.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Howard's been training forever, but, like someone else said, he still needs work. Even Ozzie had to re-evaluate his play style and almost "re-invent" himself a couple years ago because he was streaky at times. It can take upwards of 5 years to train a goalie... and in some cases even more. He will be given his chance in time... and if he can't cut it, we've got VERY promising goaltenders in Daniel Larsson and Thomas McCollum.

Howard is an interesting one. When he was first drafted there was talk about his inconsistency and his ability to be dominant and then off the boil. 3-4 years later and the same still applies. He is fitter, has (hopefully) worked on and improved a few of his weaknesses, but his inconsistency and failure to take his opportunities have seem him remain in the AHL and this looks set to continue for another season.

In saying all that, I firmly believe he’s only going to get better and be an NHL caliber goalie by playing in the NHL. In the few games he has played he’s looked alright, and he’ll only take the necessary improvements by playing in the big league. That’s where we’re going to get a good idea of whether he’s cut out for it or not. And to this some might say that he needs to dominate the AHL first, but you could argue that playing in Detroit, in front of our defence and seeing on 20 shots a night would make him more successful in Detroit. And you know he’d improve in that scenario.

[Holmstrom96Screens 0]

As each game goes by I think Helm is just too good to be playing in the AHL and it would be a waste for him to be down there

ditto. I watched the man play in the 2008 playoffs. although he played only a short time, he did great in the time he played and I quickly noticed him. I bought his rookie card the other day. That said, Zetty was mentioned europeans/Russians tend to have a different approach to the hockey and they usually don't come to nhl until they approach their mid twenties (on average) and some, such as Sergei Nemchinov, didn't come until they were in their late twenties. While North Americans tend to break into nhl at an earlier age. not saying I don't agree with this approach, because I do. I tend to agree with the europeans/russians approach rather than the north american way. what I'm saying is that the wings management maybe adopting that approach to hockey and that may be why they're sending Helm back down. Is Helm ready to play in the NHL? I think so. He is 21 years old and appeared quite mature to me, and he handled playoff pressure very well.

[2probert4 8]

i'm just curious how long it is before we get a reputation around the league amongst young players that it's Damn near impossible to crack and stay in our lineup.

Quincy had a great playoffs in 07, didn't even get a call up afterwards

Howard has been waiting for years to prove himself,...instead we sign Ty Conkiln

Now we have helm who dispite being a force of nature on our 4th line, is gonna spend time in Grand Rapids for who knows how long.

I'm not saying any of these choices arn't the right ones (so seriously there's no need to debate if they are), i don't know a thing about how to run a hockey team, obviously the brass does given our success.

I'm just thinking out loud about this, you know these guys are getting frustrated.

Don't forget Ericsson, who Babs repeatedly says should be playing......

[j.hoop 64]

Lol. You called him a force of nature. But okay.

i think to some extent that is true, he was fast, charging into the zone, aggressive, laying the body on bigger guys than him, and proved he can play in our system. he also scored 2 goals, and 4 points, which isnt great, but isnt bad considering it was his first time in that situation. whatever happens i hope he is here to stay, he definitely stuck out to alot of people.