Sidney Crosby is leading by the example

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The Crosby roasting threads get to me too. I guess when the spot light is on someone so intensely everything they do is seen in a different light. I find it hilarious how the haters dismiss how unbelievably well he's done in his short career, stats-wise, hockey-wise, leadership-wise etc. And the biggest complaint is he whines, it is funny because there is no substance. It's like complaining that he has an ugly helmet, although it maybe true and annoying it does not add or take anything away from how he plays and how well he plays. The next is that he is poor defensively, which I don't find to be true... it may not be the best part of his game but he is not that bad, and he is improving. Remember a guy named Steve Yzerman? He was not always considered to be the best 2 way forward, it took the time to improve his defensive play and look where it got him. My belief is that is all stems from either extreme jealousy, or just plain stupidity. I have more respect for the people that just say I hate the kid... period! That I can live with. Isn't it ironic how many people whine about Crosby whining... there must be hundreds of LGW whiners that whine more then Crosby ever will. SWF is right, try to play a competitive sport just once and not complain about a call you feel was unjust... if you can do that then you are not human or you don't actually have the heart for the game.

I can easily shoot that theory down- Ovechkin is near universally liked around here and he's a prodigy hockey player that the Wings don't have. How often is he maligned? Not like Crosby. Like it or not- people dislike Crosby for a reason much less easily dismissed than stupidity or jealousy.

Some people hate being brow-beaten with hype. Some people resent the Crosby saturation stealing the spot-light from other equally (or at least very nearly equally) deserving players.

Dismissing these people as stupid or jealous is hardly any better than people dismissing Crosby as a whiner. You're throwing the valid arguments like I just listed away based on the fact that they support a view you dislike rather than basing it on the substance of the arguments without attempting to impune the character of the other person.

[Doggy 130]

I can easily shoot that theory down- Ovechkin is near universally liked around here and he's a prodigy hockey player that the Wings don't have. How often is he maligned? Not like Crosby. Like it or not- people dislike Crosby for a reason much less easily dismissed than stupidity or jealousy.

Some people hate being brow-beaten with hype. Some people resent the Crosby saturation stealing the spot-light from other equally (or at least very nearly equally) deserving players.

Dismissing these people as stupid or jealous is hardly any better than people dismissing Crosby as a whiner. You're throwing the valid arguments like I just listed away based on the fact that they support a view you dislike rather than basing it on the substance of the arguments without attempting to impune the character of the other person.

The jealousy he is referring to is jealousy due to the attention he gets. That and solely that. If fans got jealous of NHLers because they are more talented than them, then wouldn't every NHLer be disliked?

People might think he whines or whatever, but you're still yet to shoot down that argument.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The jealousy he is referring to is jealousy due to the attention he gets. That and solely that. If fans got jealous of NHLers because they are more talented than them, then wouldn't every NHLer be disliked?

People might think he whines or whatever, but you're still yet to shoot down that argument.

I was referring to the jealousy people assume other fans feel because Pits has him and not the team of the fan in question. I save my personal jealousy for whoever's sleeping with Adriana Lima.

[Doggy 130]

Who's Adriana Lima? She hot? I'm googling.

[Dabura 12,232]

But people are acting like that to a pretty good degree

No, they're not. No one is saying anything remotely close to "If someone doesn't act like a perfect angel, that someone sucks."

Crosby whines too much. This belief is held not just by LGWers, but by fans all around the league. While yes, it probably is overstated, and yes, that's probably partially a result of Crosby being in the spotlight all the time, it's true nonetheless. Knocking Crosby for whining is essentially the same as knocking Sean Avery for running his mouth. Are you prepared to defend Avery to the extent to which you're defending Crosby?

Moreover, your attempt to paint Crosby-bashers as hypocrites is valiant, but ultimately flawed. It should be understood that when someone calls Crosby out for excessive whining on a message board, that person is ostensibly referring to Crosby as a superstar hockey player, the face of the National Hockey League -- not as a peer. So when you say, "Yeah, but look at all of you. You're all whining, aren't you?" you're missing the point. We're bitching Crosby out for whining less because of the act of whining itself and more because of who and what Crosby is.

As for the jealousy argument -- what Drake said. Except, I've never cared much for Adriana Lima, and she's actually a good Christian girl. Doutzen Kroes ftw!

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Funny thing is, while I hate him for crying against the Wings, watching him in most games that I can, he rarely ever dives, and puts forth substantial amounts of effort, not to mention people clutch and interfere with him constantly without him complaining, nor the people getting called for it. Hell, if this were happening to me as often as it does to him I'd probably start diving and whining too. But beyond that, it's clear to me hating Syd is a fad, so, not much one can do about it besides ignore it and praise the kid when he does alright.

He's one of the best, if not the best, in the league right now. Players don't score goals and are constantly amongst league leaders in points by whining.

A good point; whenever I've seen Crosby lately (most of the time), he hasn't been whining or diving; that kind of stuff hopefully begins to go away as players mature. We know that everyone does it at some point in their careers, anyway. When Sid grows out of it, and he will, the main complaint will move to that he's marketed at an unbelievable rate by the NHL.

[The Secret 304]

I can easily shoot that theory down- Ovechkin is near universally liked around here and he's a prodigy hockey player that the Wings don't have. How often is he maligned? Not like Crosby. Like it or not- people dislike Crosby for a reason much less easily dismissed than stupidity or jealousy.

Some people hate being brow-beaten with hype. Some people resent the Crosby saturation stealing the spot-light from other equally (or at least very nearly equally) deserving players.

Dismissing these people as stupid or jealous is hardly any better than people dismissing Crosby as a whiner. You're throwing the valid arguments like I just listed away based on the fact that they support a view you dislike rather than basing it on the substance of the arguments without attempting to impune the character of the other person.

The topic of the thread is "Sydney Crosby is leading by example". At his age, winning the trophies he has, putting up the numbers he has, already getting to within a few games of a Stanley Cup to me it leading by example. To dismiss the fact that he is leading by example because he whines or because he is being pushed in your face by the league is stupid. I'm not calling you stupid, the arguements i just listed are. When I talk of jealousy, I don't speak that of jealousy that he is not on the Wings or that he is a better hockey player then you but jealousy of the fact that you are seeing and hearing about him because is is a great player, a great leader and marketable for a sport that is trying to compete in ratings with Baseball & Football etc. There is no impuning going on here. How many of his peers are even near his level at his age with as much experience? Is that not more evidence of leading by example? How about all the added pressure that comes with the added media coverage he gets over his peers and yet still he handles himself like a professional... leading by example! How about the higher expectations expected of this young kid and he still able to do all that... leading by example! If marketing Ovechkin would generate the exposure and the profits that marketing Corsby does then they would be pushing him in your face and not Crosby. The kid is a great leader by example, whining does not take that away nor does marketing.

[Dabura 12,232]

The kid is a great leader by example, whining does not take that away

Whining doesn't take it away, but it does take away from it.

Fact: Sidney Crosby whines too much.

Fact: It annoys people.

Fact: Everyone knows he's good, even if we don't say, "ZOMG. LUVE TEH SID."

No need for rebuttals in essay-form.

This thread makes my brain hurt.

Edited November 21, 2008 by Dabura

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Whining doesn't take it away, but it does take away from it.

Fact: Sidney Crosby whines too much.

Actually that's an opinion.

Fact: It annoys people.

It probably annoys some people.

Fact: Everyone knows he's good, even if we don't say, "ZOMG. LUVE TEH SID."

All you have to do is read through some of this thread to see that not everyone knows he's good, or at least will admit it. People claim he's overrated, his points come from secondary assists, it's because of Malkin...

No need for rebuttals in essay-form.

This thread makes my brain hurt.

I'll try and keep it shorter than an essay.

I will say this. I've finally gotten to see Ovechkin play a couple times this season. He's an amazing player. He also complains to the refs a noticeable amount. Last night he plowed into Dustin Brown in a clear interference penalty. the puck was about 40 feet away and AO slammed into Brown and knocked him on his ass. Yet he was amazed that there was a penalty. He complained to the refs as they took him to the penalty box. Then when the Kings scored a power play goal, he went to not one but both refs to continue arguing his case after he left the box. He complained a lot.

Does that make him a whiner? no. But a lot of players do it. This may be funny to say, but I think part of why Crosby gets so much heat for it is because of his facial expression as he's complaining, and honestly just how he looks. Ovechkin looks pissed as he's complaining, but it's still complaining. Crosby and his baby face looks like a whiny child.

Just a thought.

[The Secret 304]

Whining doesn't take it away, but it does take away from it.

Fact: Sidney Crosby whines too much.

Fact: It annoys people.

Fact: Everyone knows he's good, even if we don't say, "ZOMG. LUVE TEH SID."

No need for rebuttals in essay-form.

This thread makes my brain hurt.

Here is something we can both agree on! I am retiring from Crosby threads.

THE END.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

No, they're not. No one is saying anything remotely close to "If someone doesn't act like a perfect angel, that someone sucks."

Crosby whines too much. This belief is held not just by LGWers, but by fans all around the league. While yes, it probably is overstated, and yes, that's probably partially a result of Crosby being in the spotlight all the time, it's true nonetheless. Knocking Crosby for whining is essentially the same as knocking Sean Avery for running his mouth. Are you prepared to defend Avery to the extent to which you're defending Crosby?

Moreover, your attempt to paint Crosby-bashers as hypocrites is valiant, but ultimately flawed. It should be understood that when someone calls Crosby out for excessive whining on a message board, that person is ostensibly referring to Crosby as a superstar hockey player, the face of the National Hockey League -- not as a peer. So when you say, "Yeah, but look at all of you. You're all whining, aren't you?" you're missing the point. We're bitching Crosby out for whining less because of the act of whining itself and more because of who and what Crosby is.

As for the jealousy argument -- what Drake said. Except, I've never cared much for Adriana Lima, and she's actually a good Christian girl. Doutzen Kroes ftw!

The difference between Avery and Crosby, unless Crosby has done/said stuff like this that I haven't heard about, is that it doesn't take much for Avery to act like a jackass, and it isn't too hard to figure out that Avery is one of those "HEY LOOK AT ME I WANT ALL THE ATTENTION!" types. Is that good for the game? Sometimes yes, and sometimes it has backfired in Avery's face. Crosby doesn't intetionally act like a jackass for self-serving attention.

I'm still not convinced. Would I need to watch more Pittsburgh games to be convinced? Probably so, but I still don't see why such a huge deal has to made about it that he might do it excessively. Why? It's too simplistic, too generic of a term. Now, if he were a locker room cancer of sorts or intentionally pissing people off like Avery does on occassion to where it offends others, then I'd think differently of him. I see no supporting evidence that Crosby is purposefully an a'hole to fans or craves self-serving attention like "HEY! ADORE ME BECAUSE I'M CROSBY, ONE OF THE BEST PLAYERS IN THE NHL RIGHT NOW!" or anything like that on a consistent basis.

You have far more people out there who simply whine here and there compared to people who intentionally act like jerks like Avery does on occasion, which is another reason to me why it is a little silly to dislike Crosby solely because of this.

Disliking Crosby because he whines is just a trendy thing to do right now. A fad like somebody has already mentioned in here, largely due to a combination of media hype as well as him being as good as he is at a fairly young age, like you said more or less (not the fad itself, but because he's Crosby). Some fads and trendy things are cool and fun, but I personally think this one is silly and people get carried away with it, and not in a good way.

Plenty of other players in the league, and plenty of other people when they are at work whine as well, and it is just as obvious. And I do understand the argument you make that it might be "part of his game". People whine though when they get frustrated working or things don't always go right, whether they are making a living as professional hockey athletes or computer desk jobs like I do. I've had my fair share of moments of whining or outbursts where I wanted to break my computer for simple things not working like they should or when I might not do my job as well as I should or I get criticized unfairly.

Again, whining is too simplistic of a term to just roast an athlete over. And I'm not a Sydney Slappie or drool a puddle of spit over him, I don't do that for any athlete or leader. Whining is just that, nothing more or less, and it isn't just limited to Crosby and plenty of people excel at it.

[akustyk 84]

I will say this. I've finally gotten to see Ovechkin play a couple times this season. He's an amazing player. He also complains to the refs a noticeable amount. Last night he plowed into Dustin Brown in a clear interference penalty. the puck was about 40 feet away and AO slammed into Brown and knocked him on his ass. Yet he was amazed that there was a penalty. He complained to the refs as they took him to the penalty box. Then when the Kings scored a power play goal, he went to not one but both refs to continue arguing his case after he left the box. He complained a lot.

Does that make him a whiner? no. But a lot of players do it. This may be funny to say, but I think part of why Crosby gets so much heat for it is because of his facial expression as he's complaining, and honestly just how he looks. Ovechkin looks pissed as he's complaining, but it's still complaining. Crosby and his baby face looks like a whiny child.

Just a thought.

just another though:

perhaps it's because Ovie's English is not good enough but we fortunately keep loving

him for being a mean ass when necessary and never-ever doing an idiotic show called:

"me and my coach cry about bad calls and about the league doesn't helping us".

and... call me biased but I'd expect Ovechkin to tell the facts in such case instead of

joining the whining party

but yeah... I mostly agree with the part about Crosby being slammed because fans

are fed up with the league selling him beyond good taste. and that he probably is

maturing. I will however refrain from judging him before I see Penguins in playoffs

and how they overcome difficulties with their own strength rather than call-ups for

help.

Edited November 22, 2008 by akustyk

[Dabura 12,232]

a lot of players do it.

Very few do it as much as he does it. Those who do do it are, like I said, paid to be pests. People like Maltby.

This may be funny to say, but I think part of why Crosby gets so much heat for it is because of his facial expression as he's complaining, and honestly just how he looks.

And the fact that he, you know, whines a lot. Honestly, folks, I'm not trying to be difficult. This is a really straightforward, obvious point I'm pushing. It's like saying Coach Gretzky complains too much, or that Nick Lidstrom has great vision, or that Steve Yzerman has class, or that Chris Pronger plays a dirty game, or that Robert Lang coasts. I'm not saying Crosby's a s*** player; I think I've made it very clear that I certainly don't think that's the case. So I don't know what the deal is with this movement to defend Sid's honor.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Very few do it as much as he does it. Those who do do it are, like I said, paid to be pests. People like Maltby.

And the fact that he, you know, whines a lot. Honestly, folks, I'm not trying to be difficult. This is a really straightforward, obvious point I'm pushing. It's like saying Coach Gretzky complains too much, or that Nick Lidstrom has great vision, or that Steve Yzerman has class, or that Chris Pronger plays a dirty game, or that Robert Lang coasts. I'm not saying Crosby's a s*** player; I think I've made it very clear that I certainly don't think that's the case. So I don't know what the deal is with this movement to defend Sid's honor.

Pests usually agitate other players, not refs. I don't think Maltby whines a lot. How often do you watch Crosby play? Because while I don't get to see him a whole lot, but when I do I honestly don't see him whine any more than any other player, especially captains.

Watch Chelios during a game. Is that not whining? Yzerman used to ***** to the refs a lot, especially late in his career. When he retired, he even joked that they were probably glad to see him go.

I'm not saying he never whines. But I think it's a reputation he got his first couple seasons that's stuck. Now any time he complains, its "all the time." It's almost always wrapped up in some bias against him because he's the league's golden boy and hyped by the media.

[Doggy 130]

Pests usually agitate other players, not refs. I don't think Maltby whines a lot. How often do you watch Crosby play? Because while I don't get to see him a whole lot, but when I do I honestly don't see him whine any more than any other player, especially captains.

Watch Chelios during a game. Is that not whining? Yzerman used to ***** to the refs a lot, especially late in his career. When he retired, he even joked that they were probably glad to see him go.

I'm not saying he never whines. But I think it's a reputation he got his first couple seasons that's stuck. Now any time he complains, its "all the time." It's almost always wrapped up in some bias against him because he's the league's golden boy and hyped by the media.

QFT. Players like this earn reputations, good or bad, very quickly and those reps stick like flies on s***. He dove in his first season, learnt his lesson soon after and now dives no more than your average player but refs still think he dives because of his first season. Let's face it, there were a lot of non-calls on Sid in the SCF because of his diving rep. Same goes for his bitching.

Edited November 23, 2008 by Doggy

[Dabura 12,232]

How often do you watch Crosby play?

I live in PA. I'm about a five-hour drive from Crosby Central. Point being: a lot.

I understand the desire to defend him against stupid put-downs (e.g. "All he does his cry"). In a way, to defend his honor is to defend the league's.

But he whines a lot. Too much. I wish there were a less smoldering, caustic way of saying that, but nothing's coming to mind. Still, I don't really understand why this should kick off a multi-page debate every time it's brought up at LGW. Like I said, it's pretty much like saying Lang likes to float. Yeah, you can say, "Well, *such and such a Wing* used to float." But I'm not talking about *such and such a Wing*; I'm talking about Crosby. And his whining. And how it's annoying.

[TrueBlueblood 0]

I live in PA. I'm about a five-hour drive from Crosby Central. Point being: a lot.

I understand the desire to defend him against stupid put-downs (e.g. "All he does his cry"). In a way, to defend his honor is to defend the league's.

But he whines a lot. Too much. I wish there were a less smoldering, caustic way of saying that, but nothing's coming to mind. Still, I don't really understand why this should kick off a multi-page debate every time it's brought up at LGW. Like I said, it's pretty much like saying Lang likes to float. Yeah, you can say, "Well, *such and such a Wing* used to float." But I'm not talking about *such and such a Wing*; I'm talking about Crosby. And his whining. And how it's annoying.

You are correct. He whines after every whistle which is why they named him the captain.

As for Malkin, good for AO for hating on him. Malkin is a dirty player. I can't respect a player that repeatedly slewfoots anyone.

Edited November 24, 2008 by TrueBlueblood