The Elephant in the Room

[Guest redbird2008]

Well, I have been holding back here for a number of weeks, but no more. I am sick and tired of DAN CLEARY. Why is he on the first power play unit with Zetterberg tonight against New Jersey? He single handedly destroyed our 5 on 3 by staying on the ice for 1:15 out of 1:49 with the two man advantage. The guy is the weakest link on the team by far(even worse than Lijia). Why does he ever play with Zetterberg? He drags the guy down and renders any line that he is on ultimately ineffective. I ussually have had a lot of respect for Babcock and the way he has managed this team, but his insistence on playing Cleary on the power play tonight was the last straw. Is Babcock trying to lose? What gives? He has done a terrible job coaching this team this year - regardless if they are 9-2-2. Each game has been way too close and the only real challenge (San Jose) we had - we failed against. I have been holding back but my frustration is beyond belief. The cause of this has obviously been a lack of attention to detail on the defensive side of the game - notably Lilja is just a complete disaster - why we gave up Kyle Quincy and kept him is mind boggling - but mostly by the lack of contribution by a certain forward - DAN CLEARY.

I have been compiling some examples of Cleary's selfish "me first" play for the last 12 games. I challenge others to pay attention to what I have been seeing by keeping an eye out for the following selfish tendencies by Mr. Cleary when he is on the ice.

1st - When the puck is deep in our end - Cleary hangs out at the blue line and expects his teammates to dig the puck out - even when they're out manned 4-3 or 4-2 in the corners. This has occured several times throughout the season - even tonight against New Jersey. This has resulted in several goals - with Cleary standing 60 feet away from the play waiting for his teammates to pay the price.

2nd - A very disturbing trend - though it only happened twice tonight - is when Dan Cleary gets the puck, he never looks to pass off - he is always going to shoot - even from the worst angle. If you watch - other teams have scouted this tendency as well as even tonight New Jersey waited until Cleary got the puck and instead of covering the lanes, they just collapsed on him as he was trying to shoot and got him to cough the puck up.

3rd - The guy can't finish. Tonight was another perfect example - 2 on 1 with Zetterberg. Zetterberg does all the work and feeds it out in front for the open tap in by Cleary - but his stick is NOT on the ice and with one-hand on his stick, he fans on what should have been an easy goal. Stick on the ice - one of the first things they teach you in Mini-Mites and here is a professional who still can't seem to get the concept.

4th - October 24th with 36 seconds left in the 3rd period against Atlanta - Detroit is up 4-3 and Atlanta has pulled their goalie. Marion Hossa, who already has two goals, is put on the ice to go for a hat trick in front of the home crowd. Atlanta is buzzing and Hossa pinches up against Ron Hainese on the boards and jars the puck free from him past the Atlanta defense. Cleary is up ahead cherry-picking as usual, Hossa jumps up and waits for the drop pass so he can bury it for his first hat trick at the JLA - what happens? Cleary ignores Hossa tapping for the puck and skates down and buries it. One of the most selfish acts I have ever seen by a player, and the one that cemented in my mind that Dan Cleary is the everything that a player on the Detroit Red Wings SHOULD NOT BE.

I could go on an on, but it still isn't going to change the fact that he has a no-trade clause in his contract. We are stuck with him and we way over-paid. Second worst move ever by Holland (Uwe Krupp is still the worst). The only thing I hope is that Babcock cuts his ice time to less than 10 minutes a game and keeps him on the 4th line always. Hopefully he won't play him with Fillppula either - he's gonna ruin the guys development with his piss-poor example of what it means to be a team player.

I am fed up with DAN CLEARY!!!!!

Edited November 9, 2008 by redbird2008

[thedisappearer 291]

I was never a Cleary fan, and I don't like his play this year, but I am not reasy to jump all over him.

Yet.

But damn if he ain't turning into the Sammy stereotype.

[Heaton 1]

Cleary was viewed as a God last year, how quickly things change. After he got injured Franzen emerged and later we signed Hossa that bumped him down even further. He and Filppula will have down years offensively this year but they'll be back with praise next season after Holland can't keep everyone like he could this year.

[Wings_Toledo 233]

Well, the reason he's up on a line with Zetterberg is because Franzen is out until Tuesday. Babcock has tried various 2nd line combinations and not one of them has really stood out. It's easy to hate on Cleary when you're trying to force him to fill Franzen's role. Cleary works well on a checking line with Draper and generally makes smart defensive plays, though his offensive upside isn't quite there. I don't agree with him being selfish, however, as when he gains the zone, the first thing he does is look for the 3rd man to make a pass. Quite often, he makes the pass and sets up a pretty decent scoring chance.

Just because he's not going to have 20 goals this year doesn't mean he's the worst player on the team.

[Guest TheRedWingsFanboy]

I agree with you Redbird, I'm extremely fed up with this waste of a player. I'd take Darren Helm in a heartbeat over this self-centered piece of crap. Sorry for all the Daniel Cleary lovers, but he flat out sucks. Don't tell me to give you examples, I would be here for years, the major ones are mentioned by Redbird. On top of tonights game, typical Dan Cleary slacking off. Every single game hanging out at the blue line. What's the point? You saw earlier in the New Jersey game when he tried bringing the puck up...What'd he do? Stand there and get poke checked. Other games he's either drilled into the boards or just hands off the puck to opposing defensemen. I'm noticing that Zetterberg isn't passing as much to Cleary when the Wings are on the power play, keep it up Hank I'm ready to get flamed. By the end of the season I'll have a collage of clips of all of Cleary's mistakes that resulted in either a turn over or goal.

Take care.

[Reilly 24]

Well, I have been holding back here for a number of weeks, but no more. I am sick and tired of DAN CLEARY. Why is he on the first power play unit with Zetterberg tonight against New Jersey?

Because Franzen is injured.

[Guest Crymson]

I agree with you Redbird, I'm extremely fed up with this waste of a player. I'd take Darren Helm in a heartbeat over this self-centered piece of crap. Sorry for all the Daniel Cleary lovers, but he flat out sucks. Don't tell me to give you examples, I would be here for years, the major ones are mentioned by Redbird. On top of tonights game, typical Dan Cleary slacking off. Every single game hanging out at the blue line. What's the point? You saw earlier in the New Jersey game when he tried bringing the puck up...What'd he do? Stand there and get poke checked. Other games he's either drilled into the boards or just hands off the puck to opposing defensemen. I'm noticing that Zetterberg isn't passing as much to Cleary when the Wings are on the power play, keep it up Hank I'm ready to get flamed. By the end of the season I'll have a collage of clips of all of Cleary's mistakes that resulted in either a turn over or goal.

Take care.

You joined about 15 minutes before you made this post, and five minutes after this thread was created. I sense that you're a secondary account of whomever it was who posted the first anti-Cleary thread. Hi there, 4051RedWings1393.

Dan isn't playing great hockey now, right. But everyone slumps, and you try playing with impaired vision and see if it goes OK---alright? Also, he's awesome on the PK.

Edited November 9, 2008 by Crymson

[crotty99 302]

Is this a joke topic?

I hope so.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Cleary was viewed as a God last year, how quickly things change. After he got injured Franzen emerged and later we signed Hossa that bumped him down even further. He and Filppula will have down years offensively this year but they'll be back with praise next season after Holland can't keep everyone like he could this year.

And if Holland can keep the big names it'll be at the cost of guys like Cleary (assuming he waives his NTC).

[Z and D for the C 712]

Cleary is a defensive forward, that's about it. He's a cool person as works very hard, but he just isn't very gifted offensively.

You joined about 15 minutes before you made this post, and five minutes after this thread was created. I sense that you're a secondary account of whomever it was who posted the first anti-Cleary thread. Hi there, 4051RedWings1393.

yeah, that wasn't too subtle..haha.

[Guest redbird2008]

Lot's of interesting feedback.

I understand Franzen is injured. That's why the obvious choice is Filppulla - or call up Leino. Cleary shouldn't play on any line.

I record every game - I plan on posting DAN CLEARY'S Hall of Shame behavior on Youtube as soon as I can edit it down to a video that will fit in under 10 minutes. That's going to be tough.

As a Red Wing fan for 40 years - He's far from the worst player I've ever seen play for the team - but I wouldn't say he's much better than say Yuri Butsyev.

There is a reason why a 1st round pick in 1997 has played for 4 teams in 10 years - he's overrated and he shows up when he thinks his job is on the line. You should read what the Chicago coaches said about him - and you don't want to ask Wayne Gretzky about his time in Phoenix - He had every chance to live up to the hype. He stepped it up a for a year and got his contract in Detroit - he fooled Holland - now he's going back to his "slacker" ways. I don't think he'll ever score 20 goals again.

I don't know the player that crymson says is awesome on the PK. I'll look for some prime "awesome" penalty killing in the video - he never charges the loose puck, and he loves to float in the lanes up top - and he does a poor job of that while his teammates get hammered in the corners trying to get the puck out.

Thanks for the backup fanboy.

I know there are still a lot of Cleary fans out there - sorry I don't like him. Never have, never will.

[Heaton 1]

And if Holland can keep the big names it'll be at the cost of guys like Cleary (assuming he waives his NTC).

Holland won't trade Cleary or Filppula, I'm confident of that.

[DreamsofHope 2]

Anybody see that play this year where Cleary raced down the ice to negate the icing, threw the puck backwards to Zetts so Zetterberg could score... and took a huge check in the process?

Personally, regardless of what is going on with Cleary right now, I could never accuse the guy of not having heart.

Heart is the one word I would use to describe Cleary, actually.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

It's fans like you that piss me right off. I dont even want to go on or I'll be banned for what I say.

I will say that Dan Cleary is by far the hardest working player on the Wings. The guy is having vision problems and has been for a couple weeks. You must not remember his past 20 goal seasons, where he was also one of the best PKer's on the team. Everyone goes through slumps, but man do even watch for all his tendencies? Or do you just nitpick at what he does "wrong" in your opinion. He's smart on the ice, he isnt always looking to shoot as you say.

f***, I know how the Lilja/Sammy supporters feel. When a player goes through a slump, people want them off the team. Dan Cleary is a player a Detroit Red Wings shouldnt be? Your judging this entirely on this season, that is it. If you ahd watched 06/07, 07-08 and the playoffs in both seasons, it's Daniel Clearys intables and hard work, DESIRE, HEART AND GRIT that earned him that contract, not to mention he has a GREAT finish when healthy. You just wait, he'll go on a streak, and his vision problems will be gone, and the bandwagon jumpers will hope back on and cheer him on again, while the true fans of his appreciate everything he does. Because in my mind, and of many on here, as I've witnessed in discussions with them, Daniel Cleary is EVERYTHING a Detroit Red Wings should strive to be like.

Yeah, I'm not done quite yet. You say Dan Cleary isnt a great penalty killer? How about you talk to any of the players that play with him or Babcock? Why would a Stanley Cup winning coach continue to put a bad player on his PK? The reason? He isnt a bad player like you say. Worst you've ever seen? Uwe Krupp is better then him? Are you SERIOUS?

Speaking of hustle though, maybe you dont remember when he out raced Roman Hamrlik to a puck, was taken down and scored on a penalty shot?

Or maybe when he raced into the corner to flatten Phaneuf DIRECTLY leading to a goal to swing momemtum in a game against Calgary?

Or stepping up to the plate to fight Pronger, because he was tired of his s***? Something NO OTHER WING has/did do.

/now my rant is over

Edited November 9, 2008 by Detroit # 1 Fan

[RedStormRising 7]

Cleary is lazy and sucks 2.0

[Guest redbird2008]

Detroit #1 Fan - Don't take it so personally. I am basing my opinion on what he did in Chicago, Edmonton, Phoenix, and now Detroit. Not simply the last 13 games - though this has shown a very disturbing and familiar trend.

Dan has shown me that he can step it up when he needs a contract and then he tends to slack off afterwards. This is what he tried in Chicago and did in Edmonton - and failed to do in Phoenix as Gretzky didn't like him.

You can say he has so much "heart" - but showing up for a season or two to get a no-trade clause is called get a free ticket to 3 years to go back to his past lackluster behavior - which you should actually look at (his past) before Detroit before you lecture me on his heart.

I never liked the guy - and I think he his going to cost us in a game when it counts. My first loyalty is to the Detroit Red Wings - and I don't think he fits in with the type of team we need to repeat.

I think there are ample other players who would be more effective than Dan Cleary. So did 29 other teams who refused to even offer him a tryout when he was released by Phoenix.

I know you're a fan of his - I'm pointing out however that this level of play we are seeing out of Dan Cleary looks all too familiar to his past behavior that got him labeled as a "loafer" in the NHL. Its okay if you want to defend him, I just thought that you should know the history of how he got here in the first place.

[Blueliner 69]

redbird, there is no reason for you to go on a huge rant about cleary, lilja, or babcock. The Wings are 9-2-2 and haven't been playing any good. The only problem the team has had is with its defense. And as for your reasons for why dan cleary sucks, I can't believe a word you said after your point about stealing a goal from Hossa. I watched a replay of that goal and it clearly shows that Hossa passed the puck to Cleary. Plus, how selfish would it have been for Hossa to go out there trying to get a hat trick when his team is trying to protect a one-goal lead with Atlanta throwing everything they can at them.

Cleary is one of the hardest workers on the team. He went from having no work in the NHL to scoring 20 goals for the best team in the NHL. He is for sure a team player. The reason why he is playing on the powerplay is because Franzen is hurt and he's the only one that has the balls to stand in front of the net and take a beating. Just look at his assist on the tying goal in Anahiem and the hit he put on Dion Phanuef a couple of years ago in the playoffs that lead to goal.

Last year he was one of the best players on the team only to be sidelined after being hit in the face by Samuelsson. I am not a Cleary lover, but the man works hard and deserves to be on this team.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Detroit #1 Fan - Don't take it so personally. I am basing my opinion on what he did in Chicago, Edmonton, Phoenix, and now Detroit. Not simply the last 13 games - though this has shown a very disturbing and familiar trend.

Dan has shown me that he can step it up when he needs a contract and then he tends to slack off afterwards. This is what he tried in Chicago and did in Edmonton - and failed to do in Phoenix as Gretzky didn't like him.

You can say he has so much "heart" - but showing up for a season or two to get a no-trade clause is called get a free ticket to 3 years to go back to his past lackluster behavior - which you should actually look at (his past) before Detroit before you lecture me on his heart.

I never liked the guy - and I think he his going to cost us in a game when it counts. My first loyalty is to the Detroit Red Wings - and I don't think he fits in with the type of team we need to repeat.

I think there are ample other players who would be more effective than Dan Cleary. So did 29 other teams who refused to even offer him a tryout when he was released by Phoenix.

I know you're a fan of his - I'm pointing out however that this level of play we are seeing out of Dan Cleary looks all too familiar to his past behavior that got him labeled as a "loafer" in the NHL. Its okay if you want to defend him, I just thought that you should know the history of how he got here in the first place.

I know exactly how Dan got to this point. He's was a star in junior, was drafted by the Hawks, and thought he could just coast and still be a star in the NHL, didnt happen and he was dealt to Edmonton, had a couple good seasons, but his defensive game wasnt what Mac T wanted, so they let him go. He played with Phoenix, and got little to no chance to prove himself as he was playing on the 4th line most nights. They didnt have a need for Dan, so they let him go. He got a tryout with Detroit, worked his ass off, and made the team. Played on the 4th line all year and had 15 points. The next season, Yzerman and Shanny left, and Cleary's 20 goals helped fill the void for offence they left. Babcock made him a great defensive player, all coaches can mold talent. I think it speaks to Babcocks abilitys with stars, and not to Cleary being bad or lazy by any means. He cleaned up his act, and had another 20 goal year, and was a regular on the PK for 3 seasons, not including this one. He's off to a slow start, but if not for a bouncing puck, he scores tonight. His effort is there, as displayed by the play where he flew up to get the puck, took a huge hit to make the hit, and then watched Zetterberg score from the seat of his pants. Just wait, we're 13 games in. By the All Star Break, you wont have s*** to complain about.

As far as taking it personally, yeah I did. Saying that a persons favorite player doesnt deserve to be a Red Wing and everything a Red Wing shouldnt be, is over the line, and in this case, ridiculously wrong.

[Guest redbird2008]

Blueliner - I will respectfully disagree with you.

As to my observation about Hossa not getting the hat trick. You are right Hossa did pass it up to Cleary - but since when are Dan Cleary and Marion Hossa on the same line? Why else would Hossa be out there? Don't forget - Hockey is the entertainment business - and their is nothing fans love more than fighting and hat tricks. Hossa was on the ice to get the hat trick - and as he is the one that actually got the puck out the zone and up to Cleary - it might have been nice for Cleary to give it back to him.

It was selfish by Cleary - plain and simple - there was no other reason for Hossa to be on the ice with him.

Detroit #1 Fan - I hope you are right and Cleary isn't returning to his old ways.

[skacore 2]

4th - October 24th with 36 seconds left in the 3rd period against Atlanta - Detroit is up 4-3 and Atlanta has pulled their goalie. Marion Hossa, who already has two goals, is put on the ice to go for a hat trick in front of the home crowd. Atlanta is buzzing and Hossa pinches up against Ron Hainese on the boards and jars the puck free from him past the Atlanta defense. Cleary is up ahead cherry-picking as usual, Hossa jumps up and waits for the drop pass so he can bury it for his first hat trick at the JLA - what happens? Cleary ignores Hossa tapping for the puck and skates down and buries it. One of the most selfish acts I have ever seen by a player, and the one that cemented in my mind that Dan Cleary is the everything that a player on the Detroit Red Wings SHOULD NOT BE.

I think this video can pretty much sum up your entire post,

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlp=8466149

bulls***!

[Jedi 1,865]

Rafalski. Stuart. Kronwall. Datsyuk. Holmstrom. All of those players took shots while Hossa was on the ice after he scored his second goal in the Atlanta game. Why aren't you berating those guys for their selfish acts of ignoring Hossa's chance for a hat trick?

Zetterberg also had 2 goals that night. Kronwall, Sammy, and Rafalski all took shots with Z on the ice, while he was sitting on 2 goals for the night. Same story, were they attempting to rob Z of a potential hat trick?

In for a penny, in for a pound, I say... Raf, Kronner, Dats, Homer, Sammy, Stuart... They're all selfish players. After all, it shouldn't be about which TEAM ends up on top at the end of 60 minutes, it's about which player gets the coveted hat trick...

[This Is Bida 0]

I think this video can pretty much sum up your entire post,

http://www.nhl.tv/team/console.jsp?hlp=8466149

bulls***!

To back you up I was there... Considering Hossa is (obviously) my favorite player my eyes are almost always set on him while he's on the ice. During that play never once did Hossa tap his stick on the ice looking for the "drop pass". Honestly, this little bit just proves how big of an idiot the original poster is.

So Cleary isn't playing up to his potential (although he sure did make an amazing play assisting on Z's goal when he negated that icing) but just cause he's in a little slump does not make him a "bad player". I'll take Cleary on my team any day...

However, (as it was already mentioned) if he had to be traded (taking into consideration he waived his NTC) to keep Hossa, I'd gladly wish him well.

This just goes to prove how I always say that hockey will never become a big sport (like football or baseball) cause most people just do not understand the game unless they have actually played it. I'm not saying people who haven't played don't understand at all, but truthfully too many people who HAVEN'T played hockey just do not understand the game. Basketball, for instance, is a stupid-man's game. Simple to understand. Hockey just isn't the same.

[David 2]

Saying you "Don't like Cleary and never have" shows you can't form an objective opinion about him and will only nitpick and bring up meaningless plays to prove your point.

Rip on Samuelsson and Lilja if you don't like being disagreed with/proven wrong.

Edited November 9, 2008 by David

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Dano is obviously not in tip top shape (as his visor might profess), but if he is on the power play and not being effective, that's not a knock against Dan, but obviously Mike -- who does play favorites, if the continued Hudler debacle is any evidence.

[Konnan511 1,736]

I liked Danny last year and the year before when he was producing and never had a problem with him, but you can only use the vision problems and his injury last year as excuses to why he is playing so poorly. I'd argue it takes more vision to play excellent defense as a forward like he has been doing all season. Filppula is starting off very slow as well, but not only is he playing very good defense, he is also setting up players that most players wouldn't be able to do, he'd have more points if Cleary would be able to finish.

I think if Cleary wasn't making so much money and for how long and with a NTC, this wouldn't be a big deal since he is playing sexy defense for a forward.