No Doubt: It's a Cup Hangover

[b.shanafan14 733]

Before we hit the panic button, remember that in order to see adversity you must first encounter it, and to overcome it you must see it. Maybe several embarrassing losses will light a spark under their collective asses and they'll see the fact that they've encountered some early season adversity which can have a rather large play down the road, or worse, if they keep it up.

There's no doubt there were effects of a hangover several games into the season. The Wings just need to figure out how seriously they take this year winning the cup. If we get to December or January and the Wings look like s*** and can't seem to keep a third period lead, especially with time winding down in the 3rd, might want to start considering trading away those who are too comfortably smug and underachieving (or showing little effort or burnout) before the deadline for someone who badly wants to win.

I agree. The Wings have probably sufficed to have last years cup and 18 pts. at this juncture of the season. Even when we, the fans, and them, the players have been unimpressed and at times downright embarrassed by defensive play, we've all said "no reason to panic, we're 9-2-2, not bad. Reminescent of the days in 05-06 when Babcock says "we couldn't lose a game even if we played poorly enough to lose".

Hopefully, the Wings stoic dressing room starts to show a bit of panic and urgency after that embarrassment last night, cause this whole season its seemed they've just gone through the motions and I think NJ was the only 60 minute game they've played all season.

The Wings need to get hungry, and if hunger isn't the problem, they'd better start getting pissed off.

[Roz 2]

Last night's game was just plain weird. At first, I thought we were going to see a blowout, and then , players started making mistakes that you just don't EVER see make mistakes. Many times when one of our d-men went to make the initial breakout pass, they flubbed it. Generally this happens when Lilja has the puck, but I noticed Kronwall, Stuart AND Rafalski make horrendous errors like this multiple times during the 3rd. And the most incredible thing about last night were Datsyuk's two or three TERRIBLE giveaways in our own end. When do you EVER see him make a mistake with the puck, let alone something that big?

[b.shanafan14 733]

Last night's game was just plain weird. At first, I thought we were going to see a blowout, and then , players started making mistakes that you just don't EVER see make mistakes. Many times when one of our d-men went to make the initial breakout pass, they flubbed it. Generally this happens when Lilja has the puck, but I noticed Kronwall, Stuart AND Rafalski make horrendous errors like this multiple times during the 3rd. And the most incredible thing about last night were Datsyuk's two or three TERRIBLE giveaways in our own end. When do you EVER see him make a mistake with the puck, let alone something that big?

QFT. The whole team looked like the Senators did last season. Hopefully this is just the thing to get everyone pissed off.

I don't know about any of you, but this whole season I've just been waiting for the actual Red Wings to show up a night and just say enough is enough and dominate again. To me, its impossible for a team so utterly dominant defensively to play like they have this season with the same personnel, it boggles the mind.

[drwscc 212]

I don't think this will be the one to turn the team around, unfortunately. They still scored 6 goals, and got a point from the game. This team is going to have to get humiliated by Colombus or something, and lose big before they really get it.

The Pens are a good team, and the loss can be rationalized due to that. "Well, we just met up with a better team tonight..we'll get em next time."

I expect more of the same type of play until a REALLY bad game. Something like a 6-2 loss to Nashville.

[Johnny Law 15]

Motivation is the key, they have to want to do the hard work and right now they simply don't want to. Babcock doesn't have a whole lot he can do because of the cap concerns and the type of players currently on the team.

I think bringing Helm, Leino or Ericksson up may provide a spark in terms of the level of effort they will put in but the cap really only makes Helm a possibility.

Like Ron Wilson I like the idea of scratching a guy for a day when the need a good kick in the pants, the problem is I don't know if guys like Maltby, Rafi and Stuart would really respond to it.

[Glubki 17]

Last night's game was just plain weird. At first, I thought we were going to see a blowout, and then , players started making mistakes that you just don't EVER see make mistakes. Many times when one of our d-men went to make the initial breakout pass, they flubbed it. Generally this happens when Lilja has the puck, but I noticed Kronwall, Stuart AND Rafalski make horrendous errors like this multiple times during the 3rd. And the most incredible thing about last night were Datsyuk's two or three TERRIBLE giveaways in our own end. When do you EVER see him make a mistake with the puck, let alone something that big?

I agree and this has been going on all year...

I'm a big fan of Pavel's but he is getting too cute with the puck in both zones. Even in the offensive zone he seems to be trying to make passes into traffic and often the passes are going into his teammates feet leaving them in a difficult situation when trying to accept the pass. This doesn't negate all of the good things he does but he is not himself when passing the puck this year, neither is Lidstrom for that matter.

The 5 on 5 play has been horrendous at times and we are trying to dump and chase more than we have in the past decade. I also saw Kopecky standing around like a lost boy scout 3-4 times last night in the defensive zone - he is currently on my s*** list...

The Wings will come around eventually!

Edited November 12, 2008 by Glubki

[Mors 201]

I'm already tired of hearing "Well there's still X number of games left this season for them to figure it out"...is that supposed to be a justification? Yesterday's game was an absolute embarrassment. I don't expect the team to win every game every season...but you DO NOT lose a game 7-6 from a 5-2 lead in the third period! The wings have allowed 4+ goals in almost 50% of their games so far this season, are leading the league in 5 on 3 goals allowed, and have 47 goals against in 14 games. Horrible display last night to say the least.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

There's too much cute play going on right now, and not enough physicality.

The result of that is inevitable. We score many goals and make many pretty plays, but are too lazy to do any of the dirty work, which results in many goals given up defensively.

This team needs to go back to working hard like they did last year in the playoffs. Not having Chelios, Drake or Downey has only made this team less gritty and there are less guys out there playing tough minded hockey. Also, Drapes and Maltby haven't been themselves this year, which makes things even worse.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

It goes beyond a cup hangover - we have reached another plateau with this club. Say what you want, but Lidstrom and Rafalski have become the new Yzerman and Shanahan of this club. I know its basically illegal to criticize Nick Lidstrom on this board, but holy hell has he been average. Say what you want about his nice defensive plays - those go by the wayside when hes not putting forth the effort. Lidstrom was on the ice for at least 4 goals against last night. I don't care how many of those were on the PP - thats simply unacceptable from Lidstrom. On one goal he wiffed the clearing attempt right in front of the net which allowed Staal to score, and the second time he left his man completely unattended by the goal and half-heartedly threw his stick in front of the player after the shot had already been taken and the goal scored.

Same goes for Rafalski. Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy in his own zone. And its a direct result of getting outworked. Also, I'm starting to believe that accusations that Stuart is prone to looking disinterested on the ice. They had the same comments in Boston and LA. Now that Stuart has his contract, is he going to give an all out effort?

Honestly, what did people expect? Our core defensive players are looking at 3-5 years of contractual security with one guy in his twilight years and the others being bottom pairing Dmen. They've all just won a cup - two of them have won it more than twice. Up front, we have at least 5 players who have won 2-4 cups.

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This is my theory:

With all this security, why do these guys have to fight like dogs every night? Job security? Check. Cup glory? Check. What else matters?

I'll tell you what else matters. Stats matter. Offensive stats in particular. Are those there? You're damn right they're there. Its become all this team cares about. And why shouldn't it. What else is there to look forward to besides personal glory when you're in the midst of fruitful years?

If this continues, and I'm Ken Holland, then I'm looking at my roster thinking "ok, who is expendable and who can be traded for a guy with hunger?" Our old problem has become our present one. There isn't any other problem with this team than complacency...

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

The 9-2-3 record just masks the lack of any form of consistent effort and commitment to go 60 minutes.

But it should not mask it from the coaching stuff. Puck being stolen from Datsyuk is a clear sign if they still needed one.

Last year Wings had a problem with slow starts and trying to catch-up in the third. This year it is the other way around.

I would like to see Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hossa line once in a while, just to see what they can do.

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

But it should not mask it from the coaching stuff. Puck being stolen from Datsyuk is a clear sign if they still needed one.

Last year Wings had a problem with slow starts and trying to catch-up in the third. This year it is the other way around.

I would like to see Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hossa line once in a while, just to see what they can do.

A Z-D-Hossa line isn't going to fix the Wings' defensive lapses and lack of forecheck. The fact of the matter is the defense is playing porous and the offense isn't helping them one bit.

People continue to complain about the defense looking terrible yet overlook the offense simply because they are potting goals. The fact of the matter is in order to be successful the Wings need to start committing to team defense and a consistent forecheck rather than just offense.

That is seriously the one and only area this team is lacking on right now. Commit to *team* defense along with a consistent, strong forecheck and all these problems go away.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I'm already tired of hearing "Well there's still X number of games left this season for them to figure it out"...is that supposed to be a justification? Yesterday's game was an absolute embarrassment. I don't expect the team to win every game every season...but you DO NOT lose a game 7-6 from a 5-2 lead in the third period! The wings have allowed 4+ goals in almost 50% of their games so far this season, are leading the league in 5 on 3 goals allowed, and have 47 goals against in 14 games. Horrible display last night to say the least.

In 82 games, bad ones are bound to happen. It's the coaches' job to stamp out that kind of effort, but fans have got to realize that a six month season is a guarantee of seeing games like that. Otherwise you're going to spend your whole time hating the team.

[Doc Holiday 0]

This isn't a hangover, this is inoperable liver cancer.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

A Z-D-Hossa line isn't going to fix the Wings' defensive lapses and lack of forecheck. The fact of the matter is the defense is playing porous and the offense isn't helping them one bit.

I am not saying it is going to fix anything. I just having selfish interest to see them play together. Might be fun to watch.

[ben_usmc 253]

better to look like s*** and not click now, hopefully we start firing on all cylinders right when the playoffs start

[Dr Rosenrosen 0]

Gotta hand it to Wings fans. A loss like this creates a complete meltdown on the Pens board.

Where's the calling for the coach's head?

Where's the bashing of the refs?

Where's the "Cindy Crosby is such a freakin' whiner!"?

You guys beat us for the Cup, steal Hossa, and still make it impossible to hate you. So glad you're in the West.

[Slave 31]

i wouldn't want to be tampa bay on thursday...is all i am gonna say

[b.shanafan14 733]

Gotta hand it to Wings fans. A loss like this creates a complete meltdown on the Pens board.

Where's the calling for the coach's head?

Where's the bashing of the refs?

Where's the "Cindy Crosby is such a freakin' whiner!"?

You guys beat us for the Cup, steal Hossa, and still make it impossible to hate you. So glad you're in the West.

well thank you, tho I'm sure you'll see plenty about the 5on3 or the fact that Sid has long-winded discussions with the refs if you check the GDT.... nevermind, I said nothing, we are all gentlemen and scholars of the game, not a single Wings fan with knee-jerk reactions... outside of the Rafalski hate thread.... ignore them all, we are all unbiased cool-headed loveable folks

Slave: I was thinking the same thing, one day off and then two brutal frustration burners on the Florida teams....

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Gotta hand it to Wings fans. A loss like this creates a complete meltdown on the Pens board.

Where's the calling for the coach's head?

Where's the bashing of the refs?

Where's the "Cindy Crosby is such a freakin' whiner!"?

You guys beat us for the Cup, steal Hossa, and still make it impossible to hate you. So glad you're in the West.

Where's the calling for the coach's head? Nope I'll stick with Babcock

Where's the bashing of the refs? While wings fans would predict before the game that there would be a 5-3 when the Pens get behind AND a penalty on Detroit in the last minute of play like clockwork - the Pens still deserved to win the game and the Wings did not

Where's the "Cindy Crosby is such a freakin' whiner!"? Who whines when they win? Solid all around effort by the Pens offense - the depleted D still gave up 6 goals

Maybe Pavel has the flu? How often does he just fall down on the ice? Never seen that. The complete whiffs on clearing were also baffling - I mean noone around, clear shot at the puck - and "miss". Makes me think other forces were at work.

Trying to look at the glass half full:

Our offense is solid

Our PP is great

Our starting record is acceptable

We just need to get the D into gear - team D at that. Playing two subpar teams this week - will be interesting to see if the Wings take out some frustrations on them.

[betterREDthandead 58]

Gotta hand it to Wings fans. A loss like this creates a complete meltdown on the Pens board.

Where's the calling for the coach's head?

Where's the bashing of the refs?

Where's the "Cindy Crosby is such a freakin' whiner!"?

You guys beat us for the Cup, steal Hossa, and still make it impossible to hate you. So glad you're in the West.

We just melt down over different things. You should have seen the trade deadline before the Stuart trade went down.

[cboth686 0]

Agreed, our D has been a joke. Osgood hasnt helped matters by having a save % below .900...

[Doc Holiday 0]

Agreed, our D has been a joke. Osgood hasnt helped matters by having a save % below .900...

The save percentage is indicative of poor defensive play.

[Joe S 11]

The experienced, seasoned Red Wings have been distracted, impulsive kids all season, or so it would seem. Now is the time guys like Yzerman, Shanahan and Chelios would come in handy.

I'm still a little annoyed we didn't get smashed by the Sharks by 4 or 5 goals. We need a wake-up call as has been stated, however I'm skeptical that this loss will deliver it. This is the fourth time this season I've thought, "This ought to send them a message." Will there be a fifth?

I'm hopeful this will serve as a wake-up call but I'm not holding my breathe. I look forward to seeing which players emerge as the leaders of this team.

I am a Red Wings Fan 100%. They are a true finess team, and would be unbeatable in a college hockey or olympic hockey setting where the emphasis is on skating and shooting. However, in the NHL, a physical team will beat a finess team four out of seven games. The Red Wings need to be more physical on defense. They need bigger, younger and more aggressive defensemen. They need more "grit" overall, but expecially on Defense.

One more thing, the Red Wings have one more Achilles Heel They seem to go into a trance late in a game where they consistently turn the puck over in their own zone, fail to clear, and in general, let the other team pass and shoot without interference.IN the last three years, it has been a recurrent problem. At first I thought it was that our defensemen were too small or too old. But it also applies to the forwards. You can pull your goalie in the last two minutes in any game against the Wings and have a good chance of dominating the play in the Red Wings zone and getting a goal. I think its a psychological thing, which would require more than bringing in new personnel. If they can fix that problem, its back to the cup! just my opinion, FWIW. Joe S

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

The save percentage is indicative of poor defensive play.

To an extent.

[StaticWithABeat 0]

The save percentage is indicative of poor defensive play.

Partially. Osgood is hardly the primary culprit in the team's massive spike in GA, but he hasn't exactly been Mr. Clutch. I like Osgood and - like the rest of the team - I'm sure he'll get better as the season goes on, but sometimes I consider developing drinking games incorporating his issues with rebound control and covering loose pucks in the crease.