Avery comments & suspension

[Frozen-Man 144]

So is assuming that the only two options are letting Avery say things like that to the press, or marketing the game to "church ladies."

This game can have characters and villains and rivalries. This is one case where a particular douchebag once again crossed the line.

I feel like people who support this are somehow lumping it in with all they hate about Bettman, the new NHL and trying to reduce fighting in the game.

:clap:

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Harold, its not what Avery said that brings in the fans. Its the implications for what the game might bring that will draw them in.

And what we may see as crass and in poor taste, others may find funny, may find it an intriguing story line and may even tune in just to see what all the hubub is about.

You are right that its just an opinion. But the league hasn't gotten it done the other way so why not let this kind of stuff build some tension and excitiment for the potential new viewer.

I don't know but if I were a non hockey fan and I was presented with 2 headlines, which one do you think would get me to watch.

1. Last place Stars take on Calgary

2. Ill will. Stars' Avery calls Flames captain boring, makes vulgar statements about Dion Phaneuf dating Elisha Cuthbert.

I'd be more inclined to tune in for the latter.

But you're already a hockey fan. People who can't follow the puck probably won't pick up on the possibility that Phaneuf is one of the big hitters in the league and may try to put Avery through the glass during the game.

Like I said, the league absolutely needs to market itself better. Avery isn't it.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

So is assuming that the only two options are letting Avery say things like that to the press, or marketing the game to "church ladies."

This game can have characters and villains and rivalries. This is one case where a particular douchebag once again crossed the line.

I feel like people who support this are somehow lumping it in with all they hate about Bettman, the new NHL and trying to reduce fighting in the game.

Didn't Avery say some bad s*** about French Canadiens? And didn't Ian Laperierre step up and make him answer the bell for those comments the next time they played.

I guarantee that game had a better story line and was far more entertaining than it would've been had Avery been suspended prior to that contest.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

But you're already a hockey fan. People who can't follow the puck probably won't pick up on the possibility that Phaneuf is one of the big hitters in the league and may try to put Avery through the glass during the game.

Like I said, the league absolutely needs to market itself better. Avery isn't it.

Yes, but the point is to look at it from a non hockey fan's perspective. Which headline seems more intriguing to you? You don't have to know who the players are. If you're not a hockey fan the prospect of watching a last place team play a Canadian team probably doesn't appeal. But hey, what's all this drama about? Maybe I should tune in and check it out.

[Louisville 112]

Who cares who dumped who? Referring to an ex as "sloppy seconds" says a lot about what kind of man he is.

I'm a little surprised, but glad they suspended Avery. His antics are getting old and taking away from the game.

Oh I get it now. So Avery is bad man, and that's what this is all about. Definitely warrants a suspension. Also, since it's getting old, Avery should just stop being Avery too. Please note my sarcasm.

I'm not saying he's is exactly in the right here. Sure, he doesn't deserve a "pat on the back" by the NHL. He does deserve a fine considering the way he got the media around him. All this discussion about the NHL suspending him is moot as Tom Hicks and the Stars would have suspended him anyway.

But give me a break, there are there are guys out there flying around trying to take people's head off and not even getting a suspension for it. Yet, Avery is a scumbag because his comments got a little too real for people.

I can't stress enough that I don't agree with they way he went about it. Had he been asked something in relation to either his ex or Dion, I would have backed Avery 100%. He could have been way more subtle about it, but he came across as cocky and arrogant. In a perfect world Avery would have left this on the ice, but Sean Avery is Sean Avery.

Hockey is, by and large, viewed by the general American public as a sport for talentless thugs. Avery's comment is exactly the kind of thing you'd expect to come out of the mouth of a talentless thug. And you're talking about how the league needs to break from its own conventions by...patting Avery on the back? Good job, buddy.

I'm sorry, when did this conversation shift to Jordin TooToo?

I wouldn't exactly call Avery talentless either. I also wouldn't call the top players in this league, the players that actually represent this game, to be talentless thugs. I don't think "by and large" that the American public does either. s***, who would call the top players in the NHL talentless? Do people think poster boy Crosby is talentless too?

Those players are a better representation of what the NHL is. We are spoiled as hockey fans because so many hockey players are pretty humble and down to earth guys. Throw in one Sean Avery and all of a sudden he is the downfall of morality in our sport.

Even more reason for Avery to shut the hell up. She dumped him...and moved on to Phaneuf. What does that say about Phaneuf in comparison to Avery.

As much as I think Avery is a ******* loser for half the s*** that comes out of his mouth, NO ONE in the NHL gets the NHL more outside press than Sean Avery. So what if hes running his mouth? Thats certainly not suspension worthy. Especially when you consider some of the dangerous plays that guys make. cough *Pronger *cough..

And what does that say about Elisha? Imagine if you worked a job, you start dating a girl, she dumps you and starts ******* a guy in the same field you work in and you also know. I'd be kinda sour too.

Hmmm..I wonder who's getting sloppy thirds.

I do agree with your Pronger comment though, as this is a perfect example of what the league values. Dirty play off the ice is much worse than on it.

Who's it going to offend besides his ex-girlfriends?

Some of you guys are making ridiculous assumptions that have no reason whatsoever of being true. The average American sports fan loves this kind of stuff. Just look at the other leagues.

What makes you think this will offend non-sports fans in general? If some NASCAR driver said this, I wouldn't all of a sudden lose respect for all their drivers and assume that they were all animals of some sort. It's just unfounded assumptions on your part, and that of several other posters who happen to agree with your view.

Exactly.

Normally I respect Bob McKenzie and his opinions but his reasoning on TSN is like fire and brimstone. Matthew Barnaby was the only leveled head guy on the TSN panel.

First is his specific choice of words, two words to be precise, 'sloppy seconds'. It's vulgar, the imagery is not good and in the mind of the National Hockey League, it's misogynistic, shows a lack of respect and objectifies women, in this case Elisha Cuthbert, his former girlfriend and current girlfriend of Flames' defenceman Dion Phaneuf. If he'd said ex-girlfriends, we wouldn't be talking about this.

Objectifies women? Really Bob? So I guess what your saying is men can't be referred to as sloppy seconds. Sounds like your the one objectifying women. Also, had he said "ex-girlfriends" instead, we'd still be talking about this.

Secondly, there has been a long litany of things that he hasn't been punished for. He flipped the bird to a cameraman in New York,

I still don't get why people give a s*** about that. Was Avery doing that a live stream? Did he hurt the cameraman's feelings? That was done during practice, not a game mind you. Did they have to show that on TV? Why was it repeated a thousand times in the media if it's so offensive?

had verbal exchanges with Darcy Tucker

Yeah, because Darcy Tucker never had verbal exchanges with anybody. Riiiiight.

as well as the allegations of what he may or may not have said about Jason Blake.

Which was never proven or even sounded legit to me in the first place. Not to mention that Avery fiercely denied this and threatened to sue for libel over it. Why are allegations even being brought up?

There have been a number of things he hasn't gotten in trouble for and now that that he has said this and crossed the line, the hammer has come down.

DUN DUN DUN. Again, I'm not so much defending Sean Avery as I'm making fun of how worked up people are getting over this. If I were in that lockeroom I would have taken the Brad Richards stance on the issue, and leave it at that.

To no suprise, Marty Turco makes himself look like an even bigger ****** bag in my eyes. For someone who who doesn't like Sean so much, he sure has lots to say about him.

*edit for spelling/grammar

Edited December 3, 2008 by Louisville

[egroen 384]

link?

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_professio...k_in_popularity

I've also seen where the UFC is quickly catching up to the NHL.

[Dabura 12,232]

Yeah, but they should've done it after the game.

That's bush league. If there's a problem, you address it ASAP -- not when it's convenient for the ****** bag in question. Which isn't to say the league always makes the right call and always handles things the way they should be handled. Usually it doesn't -- which is why I like this call so much.

And yes, I do believe the possibility of Phaneuf hurting Avery was a consideration. Of course it was. Likely? No. But the guy's lost his cool before, and Avery was, for whatever reason, really pushing it with that comment. One more Bertuzzi-Moore incident and the league can kiss its ass goodbye.

But that's all a bit beside the point. Harold nailed it: the league needs to market itself better, but Avery isn't the solution. I think it's funny/sad that some people are seriously taking the "Well, Crosby isn't getting it done, so obviously we need someone like Avery! What? They're reprimanding Avery? The NHL's doomed!" stance. To be fair, yeah, maybe the league does need "someone like Avery" -- but the implication there is that its someone who has Avery's nose for the spotlight, minus his tendency to be a complete and utter *******.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Oh I get it now. So Avery is bad man, and that's what this is all about. Definitely warrants a suspension. Also, since it's getting old, Avery should just stop being Avery too. Please note my sarcasm.

I'm not saying he's is exactly in the right here. Sure, he doesn't deserve a "pat on the back" by the NHL. He does deserve a fine considering the way he got the media around him. All this discussion about the NHL suspending him is moot as Tom Hicks and the Stars would have suspended him anyway.

But give me a break, there are there are guys out there flying around trying to take people's head off and not even getting a suspension for it. Yet, Avery is a scumbag because his comments got a little too real for people.

I can't stress enough that I don't agree with they way he went about it. Had he been asked something in relation to either his ex or Dion, I would have backed Avery 100%. He could have been way more subtle about it, but he came across as cocky and arrogant. In a perfect world Avery would have left this on the ice, but Sean Avery is Sean Avery.

Too real? His comment was anything but "real." It was rehearsed and had nothing to do with what anything anyone was talking about. It was off color. Not real.

I agree, Avery should've left this on the ice. And honestly a fine is more appropriate in my opinion than suspension, but it seems the NHL has had enough of him. Avery is free to be Avery, but not always when he's employed by the NHL. Maybe he'll be sloppy seconds for yet another team, or even league.

And the league should crack down on headshots, but that has little to do with Avery's comments. The two are not directly related nor mutually exclusive. Like they're going to use up their suspensions on him and won't be able to save any for Pronger.

[toby91_ca 620]

I'm not sure I understand the cry out against the suspension from the league on here. From what I can tell, the only people complaining are those outside of the league and some fans. Everyone around the league seems to think it's warranted, including his own teammates and team management. The Stars are really getting fed up with this guy and they were going to suspend him anyway if the league didn't, so whether the league suspended him or not doesn't matter, he wouldn't have been playing anyway.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_do_professio...k_in_popularity

I've also seen where the UFC is quickly catching up to the NHL.

Did you read that link?

"In the United States today, a reasonable estimate of the popularity order might be:"

It's basically a discussion on how to measure popularity of a sport, then it supplies that list but doesn't seem to use any criteria. I'm not saying the WWE maybe isn't more popular (though i'd be surprised), but that link is not evidence that it is.

[egroen 384]

And yes, I do believe the possibility of Phaneuf hurting Avery was a consideration. Of course it was. Likely? No. But the guy's lost his cool before, and Avery was, for whatever reason, really pushing it with that comment. One more Bertuzzi-Moore incident and the league can kiss its ass goodbye.

You do not suspend someone because someone else might hurt him. Come on, that would be like suspending Holmstrom because he was pissing off Pronger.

Crosby is getting it done - his jersey is the best selling in the league. But not everyone is attracted to a sport because of its squeeky-clean, humble stars.

Hockey needs to learn from its past successes. If Avery's stupid comments are enough to spark a rivalry and some passion in regular season games between Calgary and Dallas - great! Slap Avery with a serious fine, but market the hell out of their games. Ovechkin is out to get Malkin and Semin is cutting down Crosby? Bruins and Canadiens can't stand each other? Market the hell out of it!

I am defiinitely going to watch hockey games outside of my own team that involve intense rivalries and passion. That's how you grow your sport. The NHL owed the Wings and Avalanche a ton for that rivalry in the late 90s.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

That's bush league. If there's a problem, you address it ASAP -- not when it's convenient for the ****** bag in question. Which isn't to say the league always makes the right call and always handles things the way they should be handled. Usually it doesn't -- which is why I like this call so much.

And yes, I do believe the possibility of Phaneuf hurting Avery was a consideration. Of course it was. Likely? No. But the guy's lost his cool before, and Avery was, for whatever reason, really pushing it with that comment. One more Bertuzzi-Moore incident and the league can kiss its ass goodbye.

But that's all a bit beside the point. Harold nailed it: the league needs to market itself better, but Avery isn't the solution. I think it's funny/sad that some people are seriously taking the "Well, Crosby isn't getting it done, so obviously we need someone like Avery! What? They're reprimanding Avery? The NHL's doomed!" stance. To be fair, yeah, maybe the league does need "someone like Avery" -- but the implication there is that its someone who has Avery's nose for the spotlight, minus his tendency to be a complete and utter *******.

Umm... Dab, how would it be convenient to punish him later? In your opinion it is quite possible Avery would've had a target on his back all night. I don't find anything convenient about that at all if I'm Sean Avery.

All I'm saying is that this particular game would've been more entertaining had he played. Regardless of a Bertuzzi incident or not, it would've been more entertaining and anybody who thinks otherwise is fooling themselves.

There's a lot of good video commentary on TSN right now and I think the best comments were made by Bob Mckenzie and Craig Conroy.

I think Craig Conroy hit the nail on the head when he said he thought Avery was trying to stir something up, trying to make a joke but that it ended up not being funny.

I think that is spot on. We all know Avery's game. I think he definitely was trying to make a joke but obviously it went over like a fart in church.

It's too bad really b/c I don't see what he said, contrived or not, as being so terrible. But it really didn't go over well and now the league, the Stars are going to have another black eye it seems.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'm not sure I understand the cry out against the suspension from the league on here. From what I can tell, the only people complaining are those outside of the league and some fans. Everyone around the league seems to think it's warranted, including his own teammates and team management. The Stars are really getting fed up with this guy and they were going to suspend him anyway if the league didn't, so whether the league suspended him or not doesn't matter, he wouldn't have been playing anyway.

The outcry for me personally is just that this game would've been a helluva lot more entertaining to watch had Avery played in it. Regardless of whether the Stars would've suspended him on their own. It just would've been exciting to watch what transpired IMO.

Edited December 3, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[egroen 384]

Did you read that link?

"In the United States today, a reasonable estimate of the popularity order might be:"

It's basically a discussion on how to measure popularity of a sport, then it supplies that list but doesn't seem to use any criteria. I'm not saying the WWE maybe isn't more popular (though i'd be surprised), but that link is not evidence that it is.

I keep seeing references to an ESPN poll that had that exact same order, with the WWE ahead of the NHL, but my googling skills do not bring me to the source. The WWE has a lot of marketing pieces bragging they are more popular than many sports, including hockey, but I am not going to list that.

http://blog.compete.com/2007/04/20/ufc-ult...ularity-growth/

Shows the UFC gaining on hockey in 2007, and it has nothing but grown exponentially even in the past year.

Point is: I don't think it is the percetion that hockey is violent that is tuning out viewers.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The thing is, Avery called the media over and used a disparaging remark off the ice to refer to a player's girlfriend.

People can't see how that's over the line?

Such churchgoing NHL fans as John Tortorella and Matthew Barnaby thought it was a stupid thing to say. I can understand the merits of suspension versus fine, but it doesn't make the comment any less inappropriate.

Like I said, the NHL needs to market itself better, "sloppy seconds" is not the answer.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I keep seeing references to an ESPN poll that had that exact same order, with the WWE ahead of the NHL, but my googling skills do not bring me to the source. The WWE has a lot of marketing pieces bragging they are more popular than many sports, including hockey, but I am not going to list that.

http://blog.compete.com/2007/04/20/ufc-ult...ularity-growth/

Shows the UFC gaining on hockey in 2007, and it has nothing but grown exponentially even in the past year.

Point is: I don't think it is the percetion that hockey is violent that is tuning out viewers.

I would totally agree with that. I think the NHL should be marketing itself to UFC fans, and should specifically target NFL fans towards the end of football season.

And if the WWE is more popular than the NHL, that's really depressing...

Edited December 3, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Dabura 12,232]

We are spoiled as hockey fans because so many hockey players are pretty humble and down to earth guys. Throw in one Sean Avery and all of a sudden he is the downfall of morality in our sport.

You're looking at it from the perspective of a hockey fan. I'm talking about people who really couldn't care less about hockey but could perhaps be turned on to the sport. Like YoungGuns said, Avery is, in a sense, the face of hockey to a lot of people because of his "crossover appeal" or whatever you want to call it. So, fairly or not, his actions reflect on the league in a big way. Him calling Elisha Cuthbert "sloppy seconds" is not a good reflection. This isn't a difficult concept. Him calling Phaneuf fat? OK. Him calling Cuthbert sloppy seconds? Not OK. The former is offensive, but only so much. The latter is just...no.

I remember hearing his name come up in a conversation over at Bryant Park during this past NY Fashion Week.

"Sean Avery...I heard he has a reputation. But to me, you know, I think that's great of him and the hockey league to reach out to a female-driven industry. Even if it's contrived, that's a nice message. That's why Wintour took him on."

I wonder what that lady's saying now.

[egroen 384]

Like I said, the NHL needs to market itself better, "sloppy seconds" is not the answer.

"sloppy seconds" = bad

"rivalry" = good

Slap Avery with a serious fine, and he is going to think better about his word choice next time, but don't stare a gift horse in the mouth and not take advantage of a highly anticipated game that could start a rivalry. It does seem like Bettman's NHL is out to suck the life and character out of any one who does not "follow the script".

Dino Ciccarelli expressed to the national media that he was disgusted by Claude Lemiuex, "I can't believe I friggen' shook that guy's hand." This isn't just about Avery's stupid comment at this point, I just miss the real rivalries, passion and off-the-cuff comments. I'm pissy because I was looking forward to that game, and it could have made for some exciting hockey.

[Louisville 112]

Too real? His comment was anything but "real." It was rehearsed and had nothing to do with what anything anyone was talking about. It was off color. Not real.

I agree, Avery should've left this on the ice. And honestly a fine is more appropriate in my opinion than suspension, but it seems the NHL has had enough of him. Avery is free to be Avery, but not always when he's employed by the NHL. Maybe he'll be sloppy seconds for yet another team, or even league.

And the league should crack down on headshots, but that has little to do with Avery's comments. The two are not directly related nor mutually exclusive. Like they're going to use up their suspensions on him and won't be able to save any for Pronger.

I already said it was "off color" and the way he said it was idiotic. When I say he got too real, I mean he got way to honest and people didn't like it. The fact that it was rehearsed just made it worse.

I think these situations are very alike. Like when Pronger smashes Thomas Holmstrom's head into the glass then proceeds to ***** to the press that the only reason he was suspended was the media and physics. To me, that is way more outrageous.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Louisville

[Guest mindfly]

Ridiculous.. what happend to freedom of speech?

[Dabura 12,232]

You do not suspend someone because someone else might hurt him.

I said it was a consideration, not the primary motive.

Umm... Dab, how would it be convenient to punish him later?

If he plays in that game, he gets the spotlight, the audience, the exposure he wants. Then you're just "feeding the troll." The league would be saying, "OK, we do have a problem with what you did...but, you know, we went through all the trouble of setting up the TiVo and..."

To address the point about violence: all the stats in the world won't change the fact that the rough stuff in this sport (namely fighting) is a double-edged sword for the league. I never said it's the only problem -- but it is a concern. I don't really care to argue this point, as 1) it's pretty cut and dry, 2) I can't imagine how anyone could honestly deny it, and 3) I don't want it taking away from my overall point, which is that this league does need help in the marketing department, but doesn't need to prop up Sean Avery to get the job done.

Someone -- might have been Harold -- made a great comment: if the NHL's hopes rest on Sean Avery's shoulders, the NHL is absolutely screwed.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Dabura

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Agreed on pummeling Avery if Avery consents to a fight, or takes a hockey hit.

But I'd like to know why you think the NHL should be a media circus like the other leagues.

You draw more attention to it with the suspension than you would've without it.

With suspension=big news story

Without Suspension= Avery being Avery

[The Secret 304]

I don't find that funny at all... He is a cancer for the team he plays for and for the league. What an idiot, he's going to let his stupid mouth ruin his career. Good riddence!

[Louisville 112]

You're looking at it from the perspective of a hockey fan. I'm talking about people who really couldn't care less about hockey but could perhaps be turned on to the sport. Like YoungGuns said, Avery is, in a sense, the face of hockey to a lot of people because of his "crossover appeal" or whatever you want to call it. So, fairly or not, his actions reflect on the league in a big way. Him calling Elisha Cuthbert "sloppy seconds" is not a good reflection. This isn't a difficult concept. Him calling Phaneuf fat? OK. Him calling Cuthbert sloppy seconds? Not OK. The former is offensive, but only so much. The latter is just...no.

So what's wrong with someone perceived as a villain to have crossover appeal? I think that's good for the sport, maybe his actions will indeed attract people to watch the sport just to hate him. Maybe they'll be a instant Flames fan because they hate Sean Avery too lol

Someone -- might have been Harold -- made a great comment: if the NHL's hopes rest on the shoulders on Sean Avery, the NHL is absolutely screwed.

The NHL doesn't do that though. Avery markets the NHL himself. I think he really does love the game and he doesn't believe the NHL doesn't needs to be so serious all the time. These comments aside, I think Avery just likes to stir the pot to make things more interesting for himself and give people something to talk about.

One of my favorite shows on television is Boston Legal, and William Shatner's character "Denny Crane" said something in a episode I recently watched that sticks out.

"It doesn’t matter what people are saying as long as they talk about you."

That's Avery in a nutshell.

Edited December 3, 2008 by Louisville

[Stinkyness 10]

This suspension is a joke. Sure. Avery is a 3rd class Asshat, but c'mon. Fine his ass every time he opens his mouth, all ya gotta do. that WILL put a stop it.

Or let em spew his retardedness, someone on the ice will just take exception one time and feed him a composite popsicle.