Avery comments & suspension

[Dabura 12,232]

it's not appropriate to suspend a player based on his words.

So if someone calls a black NHL player a n***** at a press conference...no big deal? Cool.

Hell, there's no need to use an extreme example like that -- because this particular instance is bad enough. Those comments Babs, Ozzie, Drapes and Cheli made are dead-on.

[Dabura 12,232]

its not even like he called her the "c" word.... come on folks... toughen your weak ass senitivity buttons... welcome to the 2000's

The NHL is a business, not a frat house.

[Mors 201]

So if someone calls a black NHL player a n***** at a press conference...no big deal? Cool.

Hell, there's no need to use an extreme example like that -- because this particular instance is bad enough. Those comments Babs, Ozzie, Drapes and Cheli made are dead-on.

Your example involves one player referring directly to another player. That would obviously be inexcusable.

Frankly, I could care less about millionaire Elisha Cuthbert's hurt feelings, and I think it's a joke that everyone is suddenly so protective of that "poor little girl" She dated Avery along with 3 other hockey players. Just because the NHL wants to protect their favorite groupie (why the f*** does she have a blog on NHL.com in the first place) that doesn't mean this should have been blown up into a huge incident.

And actually, if you read what Draper said, he didn't support a suspension.

[egroen 384]

Wow, he has turned his team fully against him quickly this time:

http://tsn.ca/columnists/james_duthie/?id=258309

Maybe they will send him to the minors and hope a team might claim him on re-entry? Hull could lose his job over this.

[Opie 308]

I could have easily got behind a 1-3 game suspension and meeting with the league, done immediately, why wait, why indefinite, why not make a decision and stick with it.

WOW egroen great Link, you deserve a link of the week award, look at those quotes:

"We hope it's the last time we ever see him," says one veteran.

"Our locker room is the happiest it has been all year right now," says another player.

Listen to this s***:

"An apology (to the team) won't work," says a third player. "There isn't much he can say to change the way we feel right now. We have a lot of pride in this organization. He isn't welcome here anymore."

Just WOW!!!!!!!

"He's been undermining everything we do," says the veteran. "He doesn't pay attention; he's not smart enough to play our system. He can't do some drills properly. He says it's because he's 'independent.'

Really, he's just not smart enough."

Hahahhahah this is priceless

Sources say Dallas owner Tom Hicks is already exploring every possible way to get rid of Avery. Trading him might be impossible right now, because of his extensive baggage, and a four-year contract at almost four million dollars per season. The Stars could elect to send him down, and since Dallas does not have an AHL affiliate, they could try to assign him to.... anywhere.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Opie

[The Secret 304]

its not even like he called her the "c" word.... come on folks... toughen your weak ass senitivity buttons... welcome to the 2000's

I suppose he would have said "sluts" instead of "sloppy seconds" he would be surving a double indefinite suspension.

enjoy my sloppy seconds you sexay ******* i am sideshow Aves!

Its his actions more than his choice of degrading words.

[#19=Legend 29]

this is going to be really interesting once avery is able to play again.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

It boggles my mind that we've talked about this for 18 pages. The guy's a jackass, he crossed the line, and now he's paying for it. It's really that simple. His own team won't even come to his defense.

I wonder what the Stars would be doing in his defense if they were 20-3-1 like the Sharks?

I think it was Bob McKenzie or maybe John Tortorella who said what a team will tolerate can drastically be affected by whether they are winning or losing.

I don't know if the Stars would be this reluctant to give Avery some type of support if they weren't sitting in the cellar.

[egroen 384]

I wonder what the Stars would be doing in his defense if they were 20-3-1 like the Sharks?

I think it was Bob McKenzie or maybe John Tortorella who said what a team will tolerate can drastically be affected by whether they are winning or losing.

I don't know if the Stars would be this reluctant to give Avery some type of support if they weren't sitting in the cellar.

So true. I have a feeling Turco is probably he biggest detracter... anything to get the attention and blame off his shoulders.

Stars fans are singing a different tune though, and think Avery has been one of their better players, and one of the few actually playing with heart.

[Opie 308]

I wonder what the Stars would be doing in his defense if they were 20-3-1 like the Sharks?

I think it was Bob McKenzie or maybe John Tortorella who said what a team will tolerate can drastically be affected by whether they are winning or losing.

I don't know if the Stars would be this reluctant to give Avery some type of support if they weren't sitting in the cellar.

Oh of course that is why Detroit always has such a great locker room, the guys want to come to work everyday every year because they win. If the wings sucked year after year Hossa wouldn't be here, the locker room would probably be in shambles, Lids would have left, Yzerman would have been a canuck. But on the bright side they would also have had last years Penguins line up! I kid I kid!

Winning cures all as I once heard a coach say!

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

So if someone calls a black NHL player a n***** at a press conference...no big deal? Cool.

Hell, there's no need to use an extreme example like that -- because this particular instance is bad enough. Those comments Babs, Ozzie, Drapes and Cheli made are dead-on.

I disagree with that. The "N" word is a racial slur.

Sloppy seconds? C'mon, that's not even in the same vicinity as close. I mean seriously, what does sloppy seconds really mean? I've been in plenty of locker rooms and hanging with pals and it's been tossed around and more often than not it was done so to poke fun at another guy and had nothing to do with the girl.

I doubt Avery was trying to imply something negative about Elisha Cuthbert like she's a ***** or a dirty ****, etc....so much as he was trying to goad Phaneuf in the sense that the term is generally used. Like I have been there and done that already buddy, bet that makes you mad/jealous, etc... It's more of a baiting thing directed at Phaneuf and Stoll than it is a derogatory slight against either of the women.

That's just my opinion of course and I'm sure no woman wants to be referred to as sloppy seconds but still, I don't think that's how the term is generally applied.

[Dabura 12,232]

Frankly, I could care less about millionaire Elisha Cuthbert's hurt feelings

I honestly don't know why so many people here are being so boneheadedly provincial about this incident. It's not difficult to see this as being more than "Elisha Cuthbert's feelings are hurt; Avery is suspended indefinitely." And I've explained why a number of times already. I've also explained why Cuthbert is important to this league. If Sean Avery is going to be praised for putting people in the seats, she should be praised for doing the same -- and doing it without insulting tons of people in the process.

The league is trying to court a substantial number of new fans and get them to stay with the sport (i.e. be more than bandwagon fans who only show up for one game because they read a blurb in a tabloid). Things like this may spike interest for a week, but in the long run they will do more harm than good.

As for your argument about my "n*****" example being different than this particular incident because it "involves one player referring directly to another player":

1. Avery was pretty clearly targeting Phanuef.

2. What if the person in my example says, "I hate n*****s"? Does the league pat him on the back because "At least he's not referring directly to another player"?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I honestly don't know why so many people here are being so boneheadedly provincial about this incident. It's not difficult to see this as being more than "Elisha Cuthbert's feelings are hurt; Avery is suspended indefinitely." And I've explained why a number of times already. I've also explained why Cuthbert is important to this league. If Sean Avery is going to be praised for putting people in the seats, she should be praised for doing the same -- and doing it without insulting tons of people in the process.

The league is trying to court a substantial number of new fans and get them to stay with the sport (i.e. be more than bandwagon fans who only show up for one game because they read a blurb in a tabloid). Things like this may spike interest for a week, but in the long run they will do more harm than good.

As for your argument about my "n*****" example being different than this particular incident because it "involves one player referring directly to another player":

1. Avery was pretty clearly targeting Phanuef.

2. What if the person in my example says, "I hate n*****s"? Does the league pat him on the back because "At least he's not referring directly to another player"?

So essentially you would give the same weight to the following statements.

I hate N.......s

I hate NHL players who bang my old girlfriends.

[Dabura 12,232]

I disagree with that. The "N" word is a racial slur.

I was responding to the poster's argument that athletes should never be suspended based on things they say. My argument was not "What Avery did is like calling someone a n*****." My argument was "That's a really stupid argument."

Moreover, the league is not really in a position to say, "Well, you know, we personally don't find that term ('sloppy seconds') especially offensive, so: play on!"

It's a good thing LGWers don't run the NHL.

[Dabura 12,232]

So essentially you would give the same weight to the following statements.

I hate N.......s

I hate NHL players who bang my old girlfriends.

No. Work on your reading comprehension skills.

[Opie 308]

I disagree with that. The "N" word is a racial slur.

Sloppy seconds? C'mon, that's not even in the same vicinity as close. I mean seriously, what does sloppy seconds really mean? I've been in plenty of locker rooms and hanging with pals and it's been tossed around and more often than not it was done so to poke fun at another guy and had nothing to do with the girl.

I doubt Avery was trying to imply something negative about Elisha Cuthbert like she's a ***** or a dirty ****, etc....so much as he was trying to goad Phaneuf in the sense that the term is generally used. Like I have been there and done that already buddy, bet that makes you mad/jealous, etc... It's more of a baiting thing directed at Phaneuf and Stoll than it is a derogatory slight against either of the women.

That's just my opinion of course and I'm sure no woman wants to be referred to as sloppy seconds but still, I don't think that's how the term is generally applied.

Maybe this is why I think it is unfair, he didn't really do anything worse than say something he shouldn't have on TV. I was thinking the league wanted him to shut up because they were afraid his on ice antics were headed to the camera.

Sloppy seconds means the second guy to hit a chick. Like when a guys says "I f13ked your mother", it has nothing to do with your mother, it is meant to piss off the other dude!

Right?

Is it really what he said, this is nothing like a racial slur, it was basically him talking his stupid s*** trying to goad Dion, he just didn't say it on the ice this time.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I was responding to the poster's argument that athletes should never be suspended based on things they say. My argument was not "What Avery did is like calling someone a n*****." My argument was "That's a really stupid argument."

Moreover, the league is not really in a position to say, "Well, you know, we personally don't find that term ('sloppy seconds') especially offensive, so: play on!"

It's a good thing LGWers don't run the NHL.

Well i'm glad you are glad. And i'm also glad you have no control over freedom of speech big brother.

Maybe they should've supsended Dino for saying "pisses" me off. I know that term doesn't sit well with lots of people. Or the work "fricking", which we all know is code for fu(king.

Maybe all NHLers should have canned responses and or structured media time, monitored by the offices in Toronto so that nobody can even pull an Avery-like move.

What's next, suspend a player for calling somebody a jerk in the media? I'm sure we could find some great clips of Roenick, Chelios and Hull badmouthing the Commish himself.

This is a slippery slope. A racial slur is one thing. This comment is another. If its suspendable then so be it. But what does it lead to?

Edited December 4, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Dabura 12,232]

*sigh*

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

No. Work on your reading comprehension skills.

Oh Dab, you'r so smart you missed the point entirely. Who cares whether its directed at a specific player or not. You would give the same weight to each statement b/c you personally find sloppy seconds or anything inferring such to be on par with a racial slur.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

*sigh*

you took the words right out of my mouth.

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

Holy s***! Is this thread still alive? Glad there's a game tonite. Geez.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

Well i'm glad you are glad. And i'm also glad you have no control over freedom of speech big brother.

Maybe they should've supsended Dino for saying "pisses" me off. I know that term doesn't sit well with lots of people. Or the work "fricking", which we all know is code for fu(king.

Maybe all NHLers should have canned responses and or structured media time, monitored by the offices in Toronto so that nobody can even pull an Avery-like move.

What's next, suspend a player for calling somebody a jerk in the media? I'm sure we could find some great clips of Roenick, Chelios and Hull badmouthing the Commish himself.

This is a slippery slope. A racial slur is one thing. This comment is another. If its suspendable then so be it. But what does it lead to?

Freedom of speech has nothing to do with it. He's an employee of the Dallas Stars and NHL. When he's speaking as a representative of those organizations, like he was in the lockerroom when he asked if cameras were present, they're relatively free to control his speech however they see fit. Especially since pro hockey is entertainment, so an integral part of the job is interacting with the media.

And it's really not a slippery slope. We're talking about one guy who has repeatedly made an ass of himself in the league. He called the media over to insult a player's girlfriend. The league has had enough. Avery thinks he is bigger than the game, and the league is reminding him that he isn't.

Again, everyone seems to resort to the extreme opposite example to justify their argument. Like there's no room between Avery's badly rehearsed "sloppy seconds" line and the boring canned answers that all hockey players give. The league could use a few more characters. I think they miss mouths like Roenick and JR. AO is a great example. Avery is not.

As I said before, this league needs to do a much better job of marketing itself, but if Avery is the best answer, the NHL is fricked.

Edited December 4, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[Dabura 12,232]

Oh Dab, you'r so smart you missed the point entirely. Who cares whether its directed at a specific player or not. You would give the same weight to each statement b/c you personally find sloppy seconds or anything inferring such to be on par with a racial slur.

No. Again, work on your reading comprehension.

Mors said athletes should never be suspended for what they say. I said that's a crock, and used an NHL player calling another NHL player a "n*****" as food for thought. Mors then tried to draw a comparison to this particular incident with Avery, not really sure why. I played along and basically said, "It's funny you should say that, as Avery's comment actually was, in fact, a pretty pointed one." Note that this is not the same as saying, "Avery basically called a black guy a n*****." Nor is it the same as saying, "I personally find the term, 'sloppy seconds,' offensive and I'm going to let this fact cloud my judgment."

Maybe they should've supsended Dino for saying "pisses" me off. I know that term doesn't sit well with lots of people. Or the work "fricking", which we all know is code for fu(king.

Maybe you should read (as in, carefully read all the way through, not glance over and look for hot-button words and phrases) the posts I've made in this thread. I've explained the ins and outs of this particular incident several times already, and I don't really care to do so again.

Edited December 4, 2008 by Dabura

[Mors 201]

I honestly don't know why so many people here are being so boneheadedly provincial about this incident. It's not difficult to see this as being more than "Elisha Cuthbert's feelings are hurt; Avery is suspended indefinitely." And I've explained why a number of times already. I've also explained why Cuthbert is important to this league. If Sean Avery is going to be praised for putting people in the seats, she should be praised for doing the same -- and doing it without insulting tons of people in the process.

The league is trying to court a substantial number of new fans and get them to stay with the sport (i.e. be more than bandwagon fans who only show up for one game because they read a blurb in a tabloid). Things like this may spike interest for a week, but in the long run they will do more harm than good.

As for your argument about my "n*****" example being different than this particular incident because it "involves one player referring directly to another player":

1. Avery was pretty clearly targeting Phanuef.

2. What if the person in my example says, "I hate n*****s"? Does the league pat him on the back because "At least he's not referring directly to another player"?

How "provincial" of me to think that people watch hockey to WATCH HOCKEY. It's a completely asinine statement to say she is important to the league. I'm sure Elisha Cuthbert's NHL.com blog brings in thousands of new fans per year, after all she's such a respected and successful actress, that's a completely realistic idea

If giving some no-talent NHL groupie a blog on their site because she dates hockey players is the NHL's idea of marketing then this league is doomed. I'm sure all the 12 year old teeny boppers are getting their parents to buy NHL center ice packages because of Elisha Cuthbert.

God forbid we just let the Stars and Flames deal with it on the ice. My first reaction after seeing the interview? "AWESOME tonight's game is going to be exciting". Do you honestly think the majority of "new" fans in the United States give a s*** about watching the Calgary Flames? absolutely not. The NHL should be happy to drum up any potential interest in these games that they can get.

Their actions in dealing with Avery are as laughable as the overall officiating consistency of the entire league.

[egroen 384]

Avery has a no-movement clause (limited). Ouch! Avery can not be traded or waived. Hull really screwed the pooch on this one.