Avery comments & suspension

[drwscc 212]

SL..esteef is talking about OFF THE ICE, which has been pointed out several times in this thread.

It's boring to watch some analyst talk to (Player X) and know you're going to get the same answer from (Player Y) and (Player Z)

Brett Hull, Jeremy Roenick, Chris Chelios - they all give (or gave) you something different, besides the pat answers you normally get. That makes things entertaining. If you kill off anyone's desire to demonstrate personality, you're going to end up with a league full of PC drones noone wants to hear talk.

[Guest Shoreline]

Once again, not talking about on-ice play here, which you so conveniently keep going back to. On-ice play doesn't attract fans, if it did, the NHL would be a lot more popular. Potential fans don't grow up playing hockey in the US (for the most part), they don't know the rules, the strategy, etc that would enhance their game watching experience. That's why they like the big hits, the fights, the characters in the media, it's s*** they can understand and relate to. Maybe a shock jock such as Avery, might be enough of an attraction to keep them around long enough to learn the game and become a true fan of the game. Potential fans probably think the league is even more silly now for suspending a player for saying "sloppy seconds" in the media in comparison to what NFL, NBA players say/get in trouble for.

esteef

I agree that the NHL's draw isn't just on the ice (when I was first exposed to hockey by my family from Detroit in '93, it was by EA's NHL 93 for the Genesis), but you're suggesting it's boring, as well. I mean, besides the fact that most of the U.S. (particularly in warmer climates) isn't into hockey, there isn't too much of a way you can market to people who have no interest in your sport on the ice. The only thing there is to do is change the game around entirely, and the cost there is clearly the game itself. The league is not one that draws it's fanbase from s*** talking locker rooms. That is for the WWE. And not many people really think highly of them. The NHL prides itself on it's image over sleaze.

[Guest Shoreline]

SL..esteef is talking about OFF THE ICE, which has been pointed out several times in this thread.

It's boring to watch some analyst talk to (Player X) and know you're going to get the same answer from (Player Y) and (Player Z)

Brett Hull, Jeremy Roenick, Chris Chelios - they all give (or gave) you something different, besides the pat answers you normally get. That makes things entertaining. If you kill off anyone's desire to demonstrate personality, you're going to end up with a league full of PC drones noone wants to hear talk.

These three have all gained quite a bit of notoriety. Were they really squelched? No. Did they ever talk s*** about other people's girlfriends and refer to them in a sexually derogatory manner? No. And even the free-wheeling, outspoken Brett Hull wasn't exactly defending Avery either.

The problem with analysts in the U.S. is they spend too much time circlejerking over who knows more. Watching Versus, or NBC games, they talk up a storm during the entire game like this is some sort of contest of who knows more about hockey, or some conversation between guys, than calling a game. That's why I prefer to watch Canadian broadcasts. The U.S. media doesn't care for hockey, and the NHL obviously doesn't want to compromise the league into other forms of entertainment by allowing it. Nothing wrong with that.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

I agree that the NHL's draw isn't just on the ice (when I was first exposed to hockey by my family from Detroit in '93, it was by EA's NHL 93 for the Genesis), but you're suggesting it's boring, as well. I mean, besides the fact that most of the U.S. (particularly in warmer climates) isn't into hockey, there isn't too much of a way you can market to people who have no interest in your sport on the ice. The only thing there is to do is change the game around entirely, and the cost there is clearly the game itself. The league is not one that draws it's fanbase from s*** talking locker rooms. That is for the WWE. And not many people really think highly of them. The NHL prides itself on it's image over sleaze.

Not saying it's boring on the ice, I like it, I just know that it doesn't seem to be exciting enough to attract the number of fans the NHL is looking for. All those warmer climates have sports networks on tv yes? So couldn't controversial NHL player interviews like Avery's attract people watching their respective sports shows? I mean they do have NHL teams in those areas, maybe drum up enough controversy to get people out to a game?

"The league is not one that draws it's fanbase from s*** talking locker rooms". That's what the NFL and NBA used to say, now they count their millions. Are the actual games any different because of the locker room antics? I think not. Are they more exciting? Absolutely.

esteef

Edited December 9, 2008 by esteef

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Last sentence aside, I kinda think embarrassing your teammates and putting them and the organization in a position to answer for your selfish personal jab at a player's girlfriend would pretty much be the equivalent of hanging yourself in a professional league. It doesn't take much to get the media to go apes***, and it's clear the Stars players nor the management want to have anything to do with it. If anything, I don't see what they did as whining, as it was them coming closer as a team, even if it included using Avery as a scapegoat for their poor performance.

Why is it that what Avery does is all on his plate yet the Stars have to be embarrassed about it and answer for it? I call Royale Bulls*** on that one. The Stars could've said they don't condone what Avery said and been done with it. All the bellyaching by Richards and Turco etc....IMO, is all fecking posturing on their part to seem holier than thou and get the monkey off of their own backs for sucking so badly on the ice. I mean really, Avery says what he says and the Stars players go apes*** like their s*** doesn't stick and their all fecking choir boys. Give me a break.

Taking a personal jab at a player's girlfriend is really that bad in your opinion? Wow, I guess nobody ever bad mouthed your girl or your mom when you were on the ice. Oh, or maybe its just b/c it happened off the ice that makes it so egregious.

And since you were so adamant earlier against my hypothetical situation that Avery could very well be blackballed out of the league, how do you go on to say "I kinda think embarrassing your teammates and putting them and the organization in a position to answer for your selfish personal jab at a player's girlfriend would pretty much be the equivalent of hanging yourself in a professional league."

You wouldn't consider hanging yourself to be another way of saying the end of his career?

There's lots of contradictions in your statements. And no, you still don't get the point.

All you regurgitate is that if 30 teams don't want Avery b/c of his antics then you're fine with it.

But if one team wants Bertuzzi despite nearly paralzying somebody you're ok with that to.

Where I come from, breaking somebody's neck would be far more dispicable than disparaging their girl.

So to summarize if nobody will employ Avery b/c of his personality you have no problem with it. But if somebody will employ Bertuzzi even after what he did you're still okay with it. I would think you wouldn't be okay with anybody employing Bertuzzi.

Edited December 9, 2008 by GordieSid&Ted

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Not saying it's boring on the ice, I like it, I just know that it doesn't seem to be exciting enough to attract the number of fans the NHL is looking for. All those warmer climates have sports networks on tv yes? So couldn't controversial NHL player interviews like Avery's attract people watching their respective sports shows? I mean they do have NHL teams in those areas, maybe drum up enough controversy to get people out to a game?

"The league is not one that draws it's fanbase from s*** talking locker rooms". That's what the NFL and NBA used to say, now they count their millions. Are the actual games any different because of the locker room antics? I think not. Are they more exciting? Absolutely.

esteef

It's very simple and although there's no hard data to confirm this. I'd venture to guess that non hockey, sports fans would be more inclined to watch the Stars/Flames game had they let Avery play in it.

Conversely, I haven't seen anybody that falls into the non hockey, sports fan column that says they wanted to watch the game b/c the league took the morale high ground and suspended him.

Bottom line, letting Avery play might have attracted some fans, at least for that game.

Bottom line, suspending Avery probably did little to attract people to watching that game. So yes, even bad pub can be good.

[lets go pavel 2]

All you regurgitate is that if 30 teams don't want Avery b/c of his antics then you're fine with it.

But if one team wants Bertuzzi despite nearly paralzying somebody you're ok with that to.

Where I come from, breaking somebody's neck would be far more dispicable than disparaging their girl.

I'm not taking his side, I'm not exactly sure what his side is, but ...

While there's no doubt that what Bertuzzi did was more despicable than Avery's, that doesn't (and shouldn't) necessarily mean that Avery should be more welcome in a lockerroom than Bert. Bert's act was a single incident, and, however misguided, was done for a teammate. While surly, he wasn't considered a cancer in the lockerroom. Avery is. It is easy to understand why Bert might be welcomed back to a team sooner than Avery.

[hillbillywingsfan 794]

Why is it that what Avery does is all on his plate yet the Stars have to be embarrassed about it and answer for it? I call Royale Bulls*** on that one. The Stars could've said they don't condone what Avery said and been done with it. All the bellyaching by Richards and Turco etc....IMO, is all fecking posturing on their part to seem holier than thou and get the monkey off of their own backs for sucking so badly on the ice. I mean really, Avery says what he says and the Stars players go apes*** like their s*** doesn't stick and their all fecking choir boys. Give me a break.

Taking a personal jab at a player's girlfriend is really that bad in your opinion? Wow, I guess nobody ever bad mouthed your girl or your mom when you were on the ice. Oh, or maybe its just b/c it happened off the ice that makes it so egregious.

And since you were so adamant earlier against my hypothetical situation that Avery could very well be blackballed out of the league, how do you go on to say "I kinda think embarrassing your teammates and putting them and the organization in a position to answer for your selfish personal jab at a player's girlfriend would pretty much be the equivalent of hanging yourself in a professional league."

You wouldn't consider hanging yourself to be another way of saying the end of his career?

There's lots of contradictions in your statements. And no, you still don't get the point.

All you regurgitate is that if 30 teams don't want Avery b/c of his antics then you're fine with it.

But if one team wants Bertuzzi despite nearly paralzying somebody you're ok with that to.

Where I come from, breaking somebody's neck would be far more dispicable than disparaging their girl.

So to summarize if nobody will employ Avery b/c of his personality you have no problem with it. But if somebody will employ Bertuzzi even after what he did you're still okay with it. I would think you wouldn't be okay with anybody employing Bertuzzi.

GST..you should know...there are people here that like to argue for the sake of doing it. they wont agree with anyone on anything. its hockey....

not to you gst but if people don;t like the bashing of players or buttmunch then maybe this forum isn't for you?..just saying

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'm not taking his side, I'm not exactly sure what his side is, but ...

While there's no doubt that what Bertuzzi did was more despicable than Avery's, that doesn't (and shouldn't) necessarily mean that Avery should be more welcome in a lockerroom than Bert. Bert's act was a single incident, and, however misguided, was done for a teammate. While surly, he wasn't considered a cancer in the lockerroom. Avery is. It is easy to understand why Bert might be welcomed back to a team sooner than Avery.

I hear you. And I understand there are many reasons why a team decides to pick up a player or not. Personally, I don't care for people disparaging the game of hockey in any way shape or form.

I just find it crazy that Avery could find himself out of work b/c of his personality basically. B/c of his mouth. And let's get serious here. What has Avery really done on the ice that's ever been so bad other than the Brodeur thing? Point blank Avery's only troubles are really caused off the ice by his mouth.

I'm not for banning Bertuzzi from the league. I'm not for banning Avery from the league. But I find it befuddling that people would be okay with no team signing Avery, yet they seem perfectly content that somebody signed Bertuzzi.

What Avery said is a blip on the bad PR scope for the NHL compared to what Bertuzzi did. That mess was aired out for all to see for a long time so I just can't figure out the tremendous backlash against Avery for what he said.

Maybe I have thicker skin. I dunno. What Avery said didn't look good for the game but I understand why he did it and it fit right into his character. But he needs anger management. I can think of a few other NHLers who could've used a serious dose of therapy too, but I don't think Bettman ever told/asked them to do it.

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

I hear you. And I understand there are many reasons why a team decides to pick up a player or not. Personally, I don't care for people disparaging the game of hockey in any way shape or form.

I just find it crazy that Avery could find himself out of work b/c of his personality basically. B/c of his mouth. And let's get serious here. What has Avery really done on the ice that's ever been so bad other than the Brodeur thing? Point blank Avery's only troubles are really caused off the ice by his mouth.

I'm not for banning Bertuzzi from the league. I'm not for banning Avery from the league. But I find it befuddling that people would be okay with no team signing Avery, yet they seem perfectly content that somebody signed Bertuzzi.

What Avery said is a blip on the bad PR scope for the NHL compared to what Bertuzzi did. That mess was aired out for all to see for a long time so I just can't figure out the tremendous backlash against Avery for what he said.

Maybe I have thicker skin. I dunno. What Avery said didn't look good for the game but I understand why he did it and it fit right into his character. But he needs anger management. I can think of a few other NHLers who could've used a serious dose of therapy too, but I don't think Bettman ever told/asked them to do it.

I agree with what you're saying, but have to think that if Avery doesn't get signed after this, then what we've seen and heard about has to be just the tip of the iceberg.

The guy's a douchebag, but he's got some pretty good hockey qualities. For the entire league to pass on that would show just how giant of an *sshole he must be that he's not worth the trouble.

As I said before, I don't think the suspension or the backlash was just about this comment. It was more a cumulative "when will this idiot ever learn" type deal. Call it Avery fatigue.

Edit: and it probably means something that since he left LA he's on pace of roughly a new team per season or season and a half.

Edited December 9, 2008 by haroldsnepsts

[lets go pavel 2]

I hear you. And I understand there are many reasons why a team decides to pick up a player or not. Personally, I don't care for people disparaging the game of hockey in any way shape or form.

I just find it crazy that Avery could find himself out of work b/c of his personality basically. B/c of his mouth. And let's get serious here. What has Avery really done on the ice that's ever been so bad other than the Brodeur thing? Point blank Avery's only troubles are really caused off the ice by his mouth.

I'm not for banning Bertuzzi from the league. I'm not for banning Avery from the league. But I find it befuddling that people would be okay with no team signing Avery, yet they seem perfectly content that somebody signed Bertuzzi.

What Avery said is a blip on the bad PR scope for the NHL compared to what Bertuzzi did. That mess was aired out for all to see for a long time so I just can't figure out the tremendous backlash against Avery for what he said.

Maybe I have thicker skin. I dunno. What Avery said didn't look good for the game but I understand why he did it and it fit right into his character. But he needs anger management. I can think of a few other NHLers who could've used a serious dose of therapy too, but I don't think Bettman ever told/asked them to do it.

No, we pretty much agree. Personally, I think the suspension by the NHL was wrong, and should have been left to Dallas to handle. I don't think his comments besmirched the game of hockey, or his team, or his teammates, and I'd have liked to watch the game that night as well. To be honest, I think someone will give him another chance, he's certainly not the worst thing to come along, but he's got some work to do. He's got a reputation, not just for saying stupid things, but for destroying lockerroom harmony, and that won't be as easy to overcome.

[esteef 2,679]

To be honest, I think someone will give him another chance, he's certainly not the worst thing to come along, but he's got some work to do.

Agree. Hell, the bottom feeder team that signs him will instantly get at least a month of free top notch publicity just for signing him. Small market team marketing anyone?

esteef

[Wingsor 2]

What the hell? You suspend the guy right before he is about to play a game that could prove to be one of the most entertaining of the year?

There are many reasons why Football rules. You get a guy like Terrel Owens or Chad Johnson making an ass of themselves and its all over the air and people eat it up and want to see more.

Avery, arguably the best personality the NHL has to offer makes some not so PC comments and takes a jab at the NHL brass when he says they don't know how to promote the players...and Bettman suspends him?

This is a joke of a suspension under the most arbitrary reason the NHL has for suspending somebody.

he brings alot of what is sorely lacking insomuch as personality to our sport. Bettman doesn't get it.

COMPLETELY TRUE!

Avery might say some stupid things and might act stupid from time to time, but its personality. As long as he's not a cheap shot artist like Claude Lemieux or Pronger trying to injure people, or take his words into disrespect over race or orientation or someone's death then I say it's fair game. If he crossed those lines, sure he needs to be punished, as we don't need that representing our sport. That being said, he plays with his heart on his sleeve and always shows up with the intent to win or at least make it hard for the other team to get their point while he's on the ice. Most people loved him in Detroit and he was no different back then IMHO. Sure you may hate to play against him but I have no doubt that most people would love to have him on our team doing what he does best. Not many players around the league like Maltby but hes a fav in D-town. I might be the last guy in town to still like Avery, but character is what makes the game sell, and turn a casual viewer into a fan. Hockey is a tough game, and if we sterilize it too much it'll turn into curling. Let the idiots shoot off their mouths to a point, and let them solve it on the ice. Let Phaneuf and Avery fight if they want, or check the hell outta eachother. Oh wait, Bettman doesnt want that stuff. My bad.... GO WINGS!

Edited December 9, 2008 by Wingsor

[Guest Shoreline]

Not saying it's boring on the ice, I like it, I just know that it doesn't seem to be exciting enough to attract the number of fans the NHL is looking for. All those warmer climates have sports networks on tv yes? So couldn't controversial NHL player interviews like Avery's attract people watching their respective sports shows? I mean they do have NHL teams in those areas, maybe drum up enough controversy to get people out to a game?

"The league is not one that draws it's fanbase from s*** talking locker rooms". That's what the NFL and NBA used to say, now they count their millions. Are the actual games any different because of the locker room antics? I think not. Are they more exciting? Absolutely.

esteef

The NBA doesn't have a problem drawing fan interest all throughout the U.S. and even into parts of Canada. The NHL doesn't have a problem drawing fan interest throughout the most populous regions of Canada (likely even the boonies), and in the cooler climate areas of the U.S., but in the warm climates their attention span seems only to be while the team is winning, or under threat/scrutiny of being moved. Now, if it means changing the game to appeal to this demographic, I say screw the demographic. Thankfully, I'm not the NHL, and they have bargained to a degree by allowing things like cheerleaders for the Canes. Bargaining further by allowing this is assuredly where they draw the line. Thankfully at that. We have to face the music that hockey will always be, at best, a 3rd or 4th rate sport in terms of attention, behind the NFL, MLB, and sometimes the NBA. In terms of entertainment, it may be behind Jerry Springer, or Dr. Phail, or the WWE, but their measure of success in terms of what their business is all about, and this one, are vastly different. First and foremost, the NHL markets a sport. Then it tries to make the sport entertaining, not at the cost of the fact that it is a sport, and the game is played on the ice, where the focus should be. They make the behind-the-scenes shows and stuff for people who have further interest than that.

Why is it that what Avery does is all on his plate yet the Stars have to be embarrassed about it and answer for it? I call Royale Bulls*** on that one. The Stars could've said they don't condone what Avery said and been done with it. All the bellyaching by Richards and Turco etc....IMO, is all fecking posturing on their part to seem holier than thou and get the monkey off of their own backs for sucking so badly on the ice. I mean really, Avery says what he says and the Stars players go apes*** like their s*** doesn't stick and their all fecking choir boys. Give me a break.

No doubt, man, no ******* doubt, were they using the Avery thing to wipe clean their slate of how they played on the ice. Maybe this is an indication to players that might want to come to the Stars, hey, if you screw up, the team hangs you for it -- i.e. don't expect their support. So be it. But, the Stars also were in the right because who had to answer for what Avery did? Who got the unnecessary media attention? Did they look enthusiastic about having to answer about how much they loved his comments? For all I know they could have thought it was funny after all, but I guarantee none of them did anymore when the media that largely doesn't care about hockey (except when this kind of s*** happens) came pouring into the locker room and asking them questions left and right.

Taking a personal jab at a player's girlfriend is really that bad in your opinion? Wow, I guess nobody ever bad mouthed your girl or your mom when you were on the ice. Oh, or maybe its just b/c it happened off the ice that makes it so egregious.

On the ice, players are given much more leniency. This is well known. There is still a line to cross, but it's much further back, and to a degree.. but emphasis is on sportsmanship. If this is not a clear indication the NHL doesn't like this sort of distraction to the game, I dunno what is.

Think of it this way also. Players fight. Fighting attracts people. So why don't they let players pound the living s*** out of other players heads? Why don't they let people spear others or take swings with a stick? Because the idea is sportsmanship, and this sort of unrelated nonsense can only be taken so far. Avery has been known to push the limits on the ice, and he got caught doing it off the ice, and it stung him badly for it. He was perfectly fine antagonizing people the way he did on the ice. He got the attention cuz he was a pest. Homer gets attention during games because of the battles he faces in front of the net.

And since you were so adamant earlier against my hypothetical situation that Avery could very well be blackballed out of the league, how do you go on to say "I kinda think embarrassing your teammates and putting them and the organization in a position to answer for your selfish personal jab at a player's girlfriend would pretty much be the equivalent of hanging yourself in a professional league."

You wouldn't consider hanging yourself to be another way of saying the end of his career?

Look, as it is I doubt no team will take him on. This is really the first time he's taken it literally too far. One team does not make decisions for 30. However, if no one decides to take him on, is it their own fault that they don't see his services as necessary to them? No. Avery did himself an incredible disservice in a team sport by selfishly putting his teammates in a spot of answering for his actions and attracting attention to the team and league that wasn't the type wanted -- the type of attention that only comes around when the worst controversies stirs up. It's not the type of business or entertainment the NHL does. It isn't the type of business or entertainment most (or all, we will see) teams want either. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

There's lots of contradictions in your statements. And no, you still don't get the point.

All you regurgitate is that if 30 teams don't want Avery b/c of his antics then you're fine with it.

But if one team wants Bertuzzi despite nearly paralzying somebody you're ok with that to.

Where I come from, breaking somebody's neck would be far more dispicable than disparaging their girl.

So to summarize if nobody will employ Avery b/c of his personality you have no problem with it. But if somebody will employ Bertuzzi even after what he did you're still okay with it. I would think you wouldn't be okay with anybody employing Bertuzzi.

If no team wanted Bertuzzi because of his liability to be a disregarding wrecking ball on the Ice, a la McSorley, then so be it. What's the problem? However, Bertuzzi was also a premiere scorer, and had a lot to add to a team besides that. It's the same reason why, despite how screwed up Terrell Owens is, he still had tons of offers. That is still priority #1. The question a team has to ask themselves when pursuing the question of whether or not to sign Sean Avery is.. is this guy more of a liability than he's worth? I'm in the mindset there are a small handful of teams who would say no, so long as the Stars eat some of his overpaid salary.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[esteef 2,679]

The NBA doesn't have a problem drawing fan interest all throughout the U.S. and even into parts of Canada. The NHL doesn't have a problem drawing fan interest throughout the most populous regions of Canada (likely even the boonies), and in the cooler climate areas of the U.S., but in the warm climates their attention span seems only to be while the team is winning, or under threat/scrutiny of being moved. Now, if it means changing the game to appeal to this demographic, I say screw the demographic. Thankfully, I'm not the NHL, and they have bargained to a degree by allowing things like cheerleaders for the Canes. Bargaining further by allowing this is assuredly where they draw the line. Thankfully at that. We have to face the music that hockey will always be, at best, a 3rd or 4th rate sport in terms of attention, behind the NFL, MLB, and sometimes the NBA. In terms of entertainment, it may be behind Jerry Springer, or Dr. Phail, or the WWE, but their measure of success in terms of what their business is all about, and this one, are vastly different. First and foremost, the NHL markets a sport. Then it tries to make the sport entertaining, not at the cost of the fact that it is a sport, and the game is played on the ice, where the focus should be. They make the behind-the-scenes shows and stuff for people who have further interest than that.

Missed my point entirely again. No one says change the game, the locker room antics enhance the game on the ice for the viewer. Get it? The viewer, the fan, the one that funnels money into the sport? The NBA doesn't have problems drawing fan interest because they understand this, so does the NFL. The promotion and build-up only make the games even more exciting to watch, therefore generating interest. The NHL stomping Avery down with a ridiculous suspension only discourages excitement.

BTW, "We have to face the music..." doesn't sound like a good marketing strategy to me. Sounds like giving up.

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

Look, as it is I doubt no team will take him on. This is really the first time he's taken it literally too far. One team does not make decisions for 30. However, if no one decides to take him on, is it their own fault that they don't see his services as necessary to them? No. Avery did himself an incredible disservice in a team sport by selfishly putting his teammates in a spot of answering for his actions and attracting attention to the team and league that wasn't the type wanted -- the type of attention that only comes around when the worst controversies stirs up. It's not the type of business or entertainment the NHL does. It isn't the type of business or entertainment most (or all, we will see) teams want either. It doesn't get any more simple than that.

Okay, that may be true, but how is what Avery said bad for the game? It's not positive attention, but do you really think people look at this incident where one guy is a jackass and hold it against all of hockey? And I'm sorry, this may not be a guy the Stars need in the lockerroom, but this IS the kind of entertainment the league needs ... or it would have been, had they let him play. This sport needs rivalries, it needs villains, it needs people to root against. Ovechkin/Semin vs. Malkin is exciting! Claude Lemieux was an ass but he made those series against Colorado all that much better. I like playing Pronger and Tootoo, even though they are dirty SOBs. This is what makes hockey great, and the point others are trying to make is that these storylines that add to the excitement of the game are also likely to attract new fans, and make people more willing to buy a ticket.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

What you have to realize is that most average joes get their sports news from sportswriters and sports talk shows on espn and such. And it's a no-brainer that sportswriters, just like any other reporters, would rather interview someone wild and unpredictable, rather than some goofy looking euro who doesn't speak a word of English.

Talk shows on espn last week were finally talking about something having to do with an actual NHL player. Yeah, it might not be the kind of exposure the league wants, but right now beggars can't be choosers. The league needs more wild and unpredictable media personalities, and with guys like Avery, you have to take the good with the bad, since he'll say some stupid things from time to time.

Bettman just doesn't know what's best for hockey. If he did, he would have resigned many years ago.

[Guest Shoreline]

Missed my point entirely again. No one says change the game, the locker room antics enhance the game on the ice for the viewer. Get it? The viewer, the fan, the one that funnels money into the sport? The NBA doesn't have problems drawing fan interest because they understand this, so does the NFL. The promotion and build-up only make the games even more exciting to watch, therefore generating interest. The NHL stomping Avery down with a ridiculous suspension only discourages excitement.

BTW, "We have to face the music..." doesn't sound like a good marketing strategy to me. Sounds like giving up.

esteef

I know what you've been saying. You're saying in order to get into the game, fans need to hear some s*** talking about some player's girlfriend in a locker room, otherwise they'll be stuck in boredom watching Crosby actually entertain fans all day on the ice. It flies with very few people, almost none of them actually being in the league.

I dunno about "face the music" as a term of futility as it is of being realistic. It looks to me like you're the one not understanding me. How long has the NHL been around with the other leagues to realistically see how they stack up against them? How long has it ever been #1 or even #2 over the NFL or MLB here in the states? I seriously doubt the NHL is going to be that, unless the other leagues fold. No sense in trying to be something it's not. It's not the WWE. It's not the MLB. It's not the NFL. It's not the NBA. It's the NHL. It has a long standing history of sportsmanship, something the league doesn't really care to give up on, obviously. Avery's comments go outside the boundaries of sportsmanship, and he got punished rightfully for it, according to the league and his team, and I bet many players throughout the league (certainly including the Flames players).

Bettman just doesn't know what's best for hockey. If he did, he would have resigned many years ago.

Indeed Bettman has f***ed plenty of things up. But it's not like other portions of the league (i.e. players) are coming to Avery's defense. That's why I find it funny when people actually try to blame this on Bettman.

Edited December 9, 2008 by Shoreline

[lets go pavel 2]

I know what you've been saying. You're saying in order to get into the game, fans need to hear some s*** talking about some player's girlfriend in a locker room, otherwise they'll be stuck in boredom watching Crosby actually entertain fans all day on the ice. It flies with very few people, almost none of them actually being in the league.

I dunno about "face the music" as a term of futility as it is of being realistic. It looks to me like you're the one not understanding me. How long has the NHL been around with the other leagues to realistically see how they stack up against them? How long has it ever been #1 or even #2 over the NFL or MLB here in the states? I seriously doubt the NHL is going to be that, unless the other leagues fold. No sense in trying to be something it's not. It's not the WWE. It's not the MLB. It's not the NFL. It's not the NBA. It's the NHL. It has a long standing history of sportsmanship, something the league doesn't really care to give up on, obviously. Avery's comments go outside the boundaries of sportsmanship, and he got punished rightfully for it, according to the league and his team, and I bet many players throughout the league (certainly including the Flames players).

Personally, I think it's more exciting if the boundaries of sportsmanship are enforced by Phaneuf's fists rather than Bettman's suspension.

[Guest Shoreline]

Personally, I think it's more exciting if the boundaries of sportsmanship are enforced by Phaneuf's fists rather than Bettman's suspension.

Well, if it were said on the ice, and not to the media, I'd have agreed. I had looked forward to seeing the game, but certainly can't complain about what happened either.

[Dabura 12,232]

The point is, the league, with this suspension, is essentially saying we want our players to talk and act like Crosby, (the NHL's current poster child), not Avery.

Don't be absurd. With this suspension, the league is reprimanding one of its players for crossing the line. Is it an overlong suspension?--Whoa, wait! Deja vu!

[OsGOD 3]

Indeed Bettman has f***ed plenty of things up. But it's not like other portions of the league (i.e. players) are coming to Avery's defense. That's why I find it funny when people actually try to blame this on Bettman.

Probably because they scared chicken s*** that if they speak out against this Bettman will get involved with murder for hire and make the "noise" disappear. Or at the very least suspend them too!

[Guest Shoreline]

Probably because they scared chicken s*** that if they speak out against this Bettman will get involved with murder for hire and make the "noise" disappear. Or at the very least suspend them too!

Yeah, I'm sure Hull, in his tenure as a player, knows best about how many suspensions you get for criticizing Bettman. How many does he have again?

Edited December 10, 2008 by Shoreline

[OsGOD 3]

Yeah, I'm sure Hull, in his tenure as a player, knows best about how many suspensions you get for criticizing Bettman. How many does he have again?

Well this is something kinda new... how many other hot box jockies have been suspened for comments made off the ice?

Bettman has obviously lose his mind in the whole matter.

I mean in saturdays game i heard lilja tell that black guy on the hawks what he was going to f*** up that ******* *******. That offended me because i don't think two grown men should be involved in what happens if little johnny next to me heard that decided to try to it out?!

Edited December 10, 2008 by OsGOD

[Dabura 12,232]

I feel like this thread would be a lot better if OsGod were to stop posting in it.