Is it really a time for changing goalies and 4th liners?

[hokike 1]

god thanks that Holland is Red Wings GM not hysterical LGWers.

[Guest nutz2u]

I don't really see the value in that. I'd take a different approach. We need to trade some bigger names, as a benefit to us this season - in terms of players who have more fight in their game - and to the future.

1. Any team: Lebda(.65)

DET: 4th/5th round pick

2. OTT: Kronwall(3), Kopecky(.5)

DET: Volchenkov(2.5), Neil(1.1)

Now, realistically, neither of these trades happen for two reasons. 1) Holland NEVER makes trades that involve any semblance of a risk 2) Hossa would be pissed if we traded his best bud Kopecky, another reason way our loyalty factor is screwing us over.

BUT if by chance Holland did have the balls to make a move, then the Wings have more cap flexibility, more energy and physicality up front, and more physicality (yes, Volchenkov is more physical than Kronwall) and a greater defensive presence. Volchenkov is one of the best young shutdown Dmen in the league and a type of player that Detroit hasn't seen since Fischer ca. '02. Hes 11th in the league in hits with 82 and 4th in the league in blocked shots with 78 - both in just 27 games.

The Wings ship out 4.15 in salary, and take on 3.6M in salary. That allows Detroit room to either 1) Bench Maltby and bring up Helm or 2) Bench Meech (who would be splitting games with Cheli in place of Lebda) and bring up Ericsson. Or both, if the nhlscap projections are correct and we have an extra 375k in addition to the 550k we'd gain in a trade like this.

So basically, then you have a team that is assembled as follows:

Homer - Datsyuk - Hossa

Hudler - Hank - Franzen

Sammy - Flip - Cleary

Neil - Helm - Draper

Maltby

Lidstrom - Volchenkov

Rafalski - Stuart

Lilja - Ericsson

Chelios - Meech

Osgood

Conklin

If you ask me, thats an even deeper, bigger, more physical, younger, hungrier, better defensively, more energetic lineup than the one we have now.

What am I missing? Kronner's cap hit is 3.0 Kopecky's is .5 how does that add up to 4.15?

[Dominator2005 558]

What am I missing? Kronner's cap hit is 3.0 Kopecky's is .5 how does that add up to 4.15?

Add Lebda's salary .65

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

And your basis for this statement is what? They don't fight like Probert and don't blow you as well as Lilja? You fight fans are shocking. Can't you just go watch boxing?

Their dismal stats are the basis for my statement, as others have already pointed out. How can you even argue that those guys have done nothing offensively?

And why do you have to make stupid comments about Lilja? It's not my fault that he wins all of his fights convincingly.

[uk_redwing 495]

I wish people would stop asking for Leino to be called up. Has anyone of these people even glanced at his AHL record this season? Its woeful.

[Johnny Law 15]

I wish people would stop asking for Leino to be called up. Has anyone of these people even glanced at his AHL record this season? Its woeful.

Exactly, Leino, Abdelkader, Howard, Larrson, Rittola all have amazing talent but they aren't ready for the NHL yet. I know people want to believe that bringing up a player from GR will magically transform this team into a 82-0 team but it isn't going to happen.

Until they get there s*** together upstairs no one from GR is going to make a huge difference.

[Mors 201]

Exactly, Leino, Abdelkader, Howard, Larrson, Rittola all have amazing talent but they aren't ready for the NHL yet. I know people want to believe that bringing up a player from GR will magically transform this team into a 82-0 team but it isn't going to happen.

Until they get there s*** together upstairs no one from GR is going to make a huge difference.

Leino has 21 points in 24 games for GR? Abdelkader has 18 points in 26 games?

I wouldn't discount that considering some of the clowns that are on the big team right now :cough: kopecky sucks :cough:

[uk_redwing 495]

Leino has 21 points in 24 games for GR? Abdelkader has 18 points in 26 games?

Well Downey has had more points than Leino in the last 16 or so games. I'll leave it at that.

I think Abdelkader is NHL ready...as is...*whispers* Downey.

[Doggy 130]

Well Downey has had more points than Leino in the last 16 or so games. I'll leave it at that.

Lol. I want Downey back too, but come on. If you're gonna say s*** like that, at least be honest about it and give details coz it's not true.

[Mors 201]

Well Downey has had more points than Leino in the last 16 or so games. I'll leave it at that.

I think Abdelkader is NHL ready...as is...*whispers* Downey.

Downey has 3 points in 25 games (but 43 PIM as he should). Leino is leading all Griffins players currently with 21.

[Doggy 130]

Downey has 3 points in 25 games (but 43 PIM as he should). Leino is leading all Griffins players currently with 21.

Lol. I'm pretty sure two of those points came in one game too. So Downey has registered a point in two games this season *I think*.

Again UK, I like Downey; but the LAST argument you should use FOR him is his point production.

[Johnny Law 15]

Leino has 21 points in 24 games for GR? Abdelkader has 18 points in 26 games?

I wouldn't discount that considering some of the clowns that are on the big team right now :cough: kopecky sucks :cough:

Hahah can't argue about Kopy.

Leino had most of those points early on, lately he is going through a real funk, I don't think the NHL is the place to work that out.

I didn't include Downey or Helm because I think they should already be up. (cap problems ignored)

[Mors 201]

Yea, I'm not all about Leino being called up now, I just wanted to clear that up I honestly believe Downey & Helm should both be playing for the Wings right now.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Oh dear.

Kopecky has been playing as good as anyone should expect him to: he's been consistently clearing the puck out of the zone (something the entire team has had trouble with, Fillpulla especially), he's quick to apply offensive pressure and is always the first man in on the dump-in. He always finishes his checks, whether the guy doesn't see him coming, or is staring him in the face from 20 feet away. He doesn't back down, and thats saying something considering he's not the biggest guy out there. No stupid defensive turnovers. All in all, he's everything a young fourth-liner should be.

Draper and Maltby both suck this year; turnovers, no physical play, failing to clear the zone, etc.

Filpulla, although inherently better than Kopecky, hasn't been playing nearly to his potential. He's been nonexistant as both a second liner and a third liner. That is why I think Fillpulla should sit before Kopecky because it will yield better results. You can't punish Kopecky; he's playing at his peak. Filpulla needs to improve.

[uk_redwing 495]

Lol. I want Downey back too, but come on. If you're gonna say s*** like that, at least be honest about it and give details coz it's not true.

Im just highlighting how poorly Leino has been performing lately. The 16 games this is true. Seriously. Check it out if you want.

Using point production to justify Downey is like using hits to justify Hudler. Not even I am that stupid.

If Id have wanted to promote Downey Id have posted this:

[jvxp 0]

Yea, I'm not all about Leino being called up now, I just wanted to clear that up I honestly believe Downey & Helm should both be playing for the Wings right now.

me too!!!!!

[uk_redwing 495]

me too!!!!!

me three! Yay!

[Doggy 130]

Im just highlighting how poorly Leino has been performing lately. The 16 games this is true. Seriously. Check it out if you want.

Thanks for wasting my time. I checked it out.

Leino has 8 pts in the past 16 games. Downey has 3 all season. Ugh!

Don't make s*** up for your argument please.

Edited December 17, 2008 by Doggy

[uk_redwing 495]

Thanks for wasting my time. I checked it out.

Leino has 8 pts in the past 16 games. Downey has 3 all season. Ugh!

Don't make s*** up for your argument please.

Dont blame me. I read that stat somewhere else on here. And Downey has more goals than Leino in the last 20 games. So there.

*attempts to regain dignity* Downey still has more points than Leino in the last 8 games. Thats still shockingly bad for Leino.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Kopecky has been playing as good as anyone should expect him to: he's been consistently clearing the puck out of the zone (something the entire team has had trouble with, Fillpulla especially), he's quick to apply offensive pressure and is always the first man in on the dump-in. He always finishes his checks, whether the guy doesn't see him coming, or is staring him in the face from 20 feet away. He doesn't back down, and thats saying something considering he's not the biggest guy out there. No stupid defensive turnovers. All in all, he's everything a young fourth-liner should be.

Draper and Maltby both suck this year; turnovers, no physical play, failing to clear the zone, etc.

Filpulla, although inherently better than Kopecky, hasn't been playing nearly to his potential. He's been nonexistant as both a second liner and a third liner. That is why I think Fillpulla should sit before Kopecky because it will yield better results. You can't punish Kopecky; he's playing at his peak. Filpulla needs to improve.

Kopecky finishes checks? Doesnt back down? Isnt the biggest guy out there? Are you watching the same game as me? He never finishes checks, at least not the way most NHLers do. He does back down alot, I've seen the kid challenged to fight a couple times this year, and even against Colorado, he'll facewash McCormick and McLeod while the linesman are around. Kopecky is 6 ft 3, and plays like a kid. He could handle himself with anything, but he cant skate well, and has bad balance. I wouldnt harp on the guy if he'd do something, but all he does is chip pucks in the zone, chase around for 40-45 seconds and get off. He isnt everything a young 4th liner shouldnt be, besides he isnt even that young, he's turning 27 this year. If Draper and Maltby have sucked this year, I dont know what word describes Kopecky. I will agree with the Filppula comments though, he needs to be much better, at least to half justify the contract he got.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Kopecky finishes checks? Doesnt back down? Isnt the biggest guy out there? Are you watching the same game as me? He never finishes checks, at least not the way most NHLers do. He does back down alot, I've seen the kid challenged to fight a couple times this year, and even against Colorado, he'll facewash McCormick and McLeod while the linesman are around. Kopecky is 6 ft 3, and plays like a kid. He could handle himself with anything, but he cant skate well, and has bad balance. I wouldnt harp on the guy if he'd do something, but all he does is chip pucks in the zone, chase around for 40-45 seconds and get off. He isnt everything a young 4th liner shouldnt be, besides he isnt even that young, he's turning 27 this year. If Draper and Maltby have sucked this year, I dont know what word describes Kopecky. I will agree with the Filppula comments though, he needs to be much better, at least to half justify the contract he got.

I believe that's what they call "team toughness" around here.

[cnot19 191]

Dont blame me. I read that stat somewhere else on here. And Downey has more goals than Leino in the last 20 games. So there.

*attempts to regain dignity* Downey still has more points than Leino in the last 8 games. Thats still shockingly bad for Leino.

Yea Leino has cooled since a hot start but he has played better than I expected him too. Hes adjusted somewhat to the North American game but hes nowhere near NHl ready right now. This is not a bad thing, hes trying to break onto one of the most deep skilled teams in the league. Hell get some more seasoning and is hopefully willing to give it another go next year with the wings. Downey and helm should be the next call ups followed by abdelkader. The salary cap does make things difficult; however I think the wings do need a bit of a shakeup nothing major.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

There is no reason Darren Helm shouldn't be a Red Wing right now.

Kopecky and Hossa can still be best friends even if Kopecky is a scratch.

[Opie 308]

There is no reason Darren Helm shouldn't be a Red Wing right now.

Kopecky and Hossa can still be best friends even if Kopecky is a scratch.

Sure now if you can convince the league to get rid of that pesky salary cap.

I wonder how much thought goes into 3/4 of the posts around here, and then the defense is well I read it on here some where! Good source! (not the quoted poster but same thread)

If you are planning on throwing your "solution" to the Wings problems out there, at least do me the favor of making it, I don't know,

realistic!

Another solution would be to trade draft picks for Lucic, Malkin, and Ovechkin then healthy scratch the 4th line. It is as realistic as making Kopecky a healthy scratch to bring up Helm, IT CAN"T HAPPEN.

For the same reason Ozzie can't be a healthy scratch and bring up J-ho or Larsson.

Same reason even if the Wings wanted to they really can't bring up anyone, Downey included.

THEY ARE IN SALARY CAP HELL!!!

So many of you "experts" come up with answers on how you would fix this "mess", yeah because teams around the league are beating down your doors to be the next GM.

And don't give me the crap, well this is a discussion board and I can say what I want, if only gm's could state their opinion blah blah horse s***!

Half of your recommendations (again not the quoted poster per se, but board in general especially this year) aren't even feasible!!

[Frozen-Man 144]

Sure now if you can convince the league to get rid of that pesky salary cap.

I wonder how much thought goes into 3/4 of the posts around here, and then the defense is well I read it on here some where! Good source! (not the quoted poster but same thread)

If you are planning on throwing your "solution" to the Wings problems out there, at least do me the favor of making it, I don't know,

realistic!

Another solution would be to trade draft picks for Lucic, Malkin, and Ovechkin then healthy scratch the 4th line. It is as realistic as making Kopecky a healthy scratch to bring up Helm, IT CAN"T HAPPEN.

For the same reason Ozzie can't be a healthy scratch and bring up J-ho or Larsson.

Same reason even if the Wings wanted to they really can't bring up anyone, Downey included.

THEY ARE IN SALARY CAP HELL!!!

So many of you "experts" come up with answers on how you would fix this "mess", yeah because teams around the league are beating down your doors to be the next GM.

And don't give me the crap, well this is a discussion board and I can say what I want, if only gm's could state their opinion blah blah horse s***!

Half of your recommendations (again not the quoted poster per se, but board in general especially this year) aren't even feasible!!

EXCELLENT POST! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: