whats wrong with zetterberg?

[vangvace 12]

How about, shocking, I know, Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom? Why mess with what won the freaking Cup?

that line is magic, but if continue throwing the same thing out there then defenses will eventually figure it out and team chemistry suffers even more. Plus do you really want to wait for an injury to work different lines?

edit: I just love my sig

Edited December 27, 2008 by vangvace

[Casey 145]

So, you aren't impressed with big, blazing fast two-way forwards with a howitzer for a shot? Wow. He's averaging a point a game and is on pace for 40+ goals. I don't think he is the problem. As far as Zetterberg, I agree that he just isn't meshing with his wingers and is trying to do too much. I like the idea of a Hudler/Z/Cleary line as Eva suggested earlier. Filppula and Franzen have shown chemistry in the past, so I think it might work.

Honestly? Give me half a chance, and Hossa's a second-liner with Franzen and Filppula. The chemistry of the top 2 lines simply isn't there with him on the first.

[StayStevieStay 0]

It does make sense, why spend a full season letting the other teams get used to D-Z-H

Instead they could just go out there when it matters and we can watch the other teams scramble for a few games in the playoffs... hopefully

Honestly, I have no problem if this line is not together... as long as Kopecky is not playing with Datsyuk then i'm happy

[AtomicPunk 296]

That is what it is all about. The other 2 on his line don't skate with the puck or let him get open to receive a pass. When he had Dats on his line, he could play away from the puck and get it in sweet scoring zones. He needs another playmaker on his line. Someone who can carry the puck with speed and be creative in setting him up. Someone who draws the double team away from him. Period. The linemates he is playing with are good players but do not cater to his style of play or what he needs to be effective.

And I would be wary of just flipping the switch come playoff time and putting them back together. Sometimes that doesn't work.

Edited December 27, 2008 by AtomicPunk

[chrisdetroit 189]

Well let's see. He has 31 points in 32 games and he is a +8.

The difference is that the scoring is more distributed. This year the #1 line (DHH) has 27.7% of the team's points. Last year they (ZDH) had 33.0% and obviously he is not on the top line this year.

This is exactly what the Wings brass was looking for, more depth in scoring.

There is nothing wrong with Z, he does not appear to be dominant because the scoring is more spread out. We are #3 in GFA (Only 0.09 golas behind the #1 team) but we don't have any individual player in the top ten in either goals or points.

This bodes well for the playoffs where as Pittsburgh learned last year, depth is critical.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I know we've gone through this a million times on this board and this has been discussed with every Wings fan out there but our team was dominated physically last night.It makes me wonder if this team is too soft this year,the presence of Dallas Drake made a difference last year.It also makes me start to wonder if there just is too much talent on this team this year with the addition of Hossa,as crazy as it sounds it may be true.They say too much of anything is never a good thing,maybe there are ego issues in the locker room we don't know about.Whatever it is Zetterberg hasn't been doing much lately and it's starting to be a little scary.

30 seconds of my life that I'll never get back wasted on reading this garbage....why did I do it...

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

He's had his moments, but the chemistry on his line obviously isn't what it was with Datsyuk. His current line doesn't have a natural playmaker like Dats, so that will obviously affect them on the offensive end. Defensively I haven't noticed any problems ...

Exactly. Franzen is a surprisingly good finisher and has moves one on one, but hasn't shown a lot of offensive creativity when it comes to setting up his linemates. And Sammy is well.. Sammy. I'm not sure Cleary is a huge help. Defensively responsible, goes hard to the net, but that's not really what the line is lacking.

I thought I'd never say it, but Hudler on the second line makes sense, as long as he's not too big of a liability defensively. He's definitely got the playmaking skills. Hudler's got the best saucer pass on the team. and it's not like they'd be losing a lot of physical presence. You wouldn't think Mule would be the softest guy on that line, but most games he is.

[Z and D for the C 712]

Franzen has been underwhelming. He seems to be playing a bit lazy and not working hard. ("lazy and he sucks" in 3..2..) I would Like to see Hudler on the 2nd line for Sammy. Whatever happens I don't think Franzen/Z/Sammy is working, and they needs to be mixed up.

[TheOwl 77]

The Cup hang over can only be an excuse for so long. The team is basically exactly the same as last year, and is playing substantially worse right now, and losing to some horrible teams. Wings have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa, 3 top forwards, and lose to the Avalanche. What good players do the Av's have? They haven't blown out one team other then San Jose.

The problem with the bad play is simple, the Wings won last year partly on the easy play-off draws because they were ranked #1. Dallas took out the only other 2 cup contenders, we had basically bye's with Nashville and Colorado. But this year, we won't be #1. Look at the rankings, we've played 2 extra games and are only 5 points up on Chicago, who are blowing out opponents on a nightly basis. If Detroit can't start playing well now, and doesn't win the next 2 games versus Chicago, we'll likely be 4th when it comes around to the playoffs.

We had the same team as last year, minus Hasek and Drake. Instead we had Hossa and Conklin and can't beat the same teams, who are WORSE then they were last year. It's pathetic. Their is no reason to think the Wings will magically turn this around. Because if we don't win the Central, it's over.

[thedisappearer 291]

The Cup hang over can only be an excuse for so long. The team is basically exactly the same as last year, and is playing substantially worse right now, and losing to some horrible teams. Wings have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa, 3 top forwards, and lose to the Avalanche. What good players do the Av's have? They haven't blown out one team other then San Jose.

The problem with the bad play is simple, the Wings won last year partly on the easy play-off draws because they were ranked #1. Dallas took out the only other 2 cup contenders, we had basically bye's with Nashville and Colorado. But this year, we won't be #1. Look at the rankings, we've played 2 extra games and are only 5 points up on Chicago, who are blowing out opponents on a nightly basis. If Detroit can't start playing well now, and doesn't win the next 2 games versus Chicago, we'll likely be 4th when it comes around to the playoffs.

We had the same team as last year, minus Hasek and Drake. Instead we had Hossa and Conklin and can't beat the same teams, who are WORSE then they were last year. It's pathetic. Their is no reason to think the Wings will magically turn this around. Because if we don't win the Central, it's over.

Just... wow.

[puckbags 863]

The Cup hang over can only be an excuse for so long. The team is basically exactly the same as last year, and is playing substantially worse right now, and losing to some horrible teams. Wings have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa, 3 top forwards, and lose to the Avalanche. What good players do the Av's have? They haven't blown out one team other then San Jose.

The problem with the bad play is simple, the Wings won last year partly on the easy play-off draws because they were ranked #1. Dallas took out the only other 2 cup contenders, we had basically bye's with Nashville and Colorado. But this year, we won't be #1. Look at the rankings, we've played 2 extra games and are only 5 points up on Chicago, who are blowing out opponents on a nightly basis. If Detroit can't start playing well now, and doesn't win the next 2 games versus Chicago, we'll likely be 4th when it comes around to the playoffs.

We had the same team as last year, minus Hasek and Drake. Instead we had Hossa and Conklin and can't beat the same teams, who are WORSE then they were last year. It's pathetic. Their is no reason to think the Wings will magically turn this around. Because if we don't win the Central, it's over.

Were in the hell do these people come from? You've tried this argument in like 3 threads now !! What you are saying is the if we lose the next 2 games to Chicago, we will lose the central, get a bad seed in the playoffs and not win the cup again? That has to be the most f*&cked up 8 year old bandwagon logic I have ever heard. And your argument about the easy playoff draw last year has to be the 2nd stupidest thing I have heard today. We run over everyone all year, win the division, win the conference and win the presidents trophy and its somehow our fault we got to play the teams we did? YOU CAN ONLY BEAT THE TEAMS THAT ARE PUT IN FRONT OF YOU, which we did and come playoff time this year if it's different teams we will do the same thing.

[puckbags 863]

30 seconds of my life that I'll never get back wasted on reading this garbage....why did I do it...

I scrolled up from the bottom and saw your post so I only wasted 8.5 seconds of my life. You saved me from reading the rest of it !!

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Seems every year we have a "What's wrong with Zetterberg, is he injured?" thread. He's just not very consistent through the season, just wait for him to catch on fire and all will be good!

Averaging roughly a point per game seems to fit for pretty good consistency.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Hossa has yet to really impress me. As it is, I'd rather have last year's team with Conklin instead of last year's with Conklin and Hossa.

He's among the team leader in points and I'm just outside of the top-10 in goals. What more do you want or are looking for?

The Cup hang over can only be an excuse for so long. The team is basically exactly the same as last year, and is playing substantially worse right now, and losing to some horrible teams. Wings have Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa, 3 top forwards, and lose to the Avalanche. What good players do the Av's have? They haven't blown out one team other then San Jose.

The problem with the bad play is simple, the Wings won last year partly on the easy play-off draws because they were ranked #1. Dallas took out the only other 2 cup contenders, we had basically bye's with Nashville and Colorado. But this year, we won't be #1. Look at the rankings, we've played 2 extra games and are only 5 points up on Chicago, who are blowing out opponents on a nightly basis. If Detroit can't start playing well now, and doesn't win the next 2 games versus Chicago, we'll likely be 4th when it comes around to the playoffs.

We had the same team as last year, minus Hasek and Drake. Instead we had Hossa and Conklin and can't beat the same teams, who are WORSE then they were last year. It's pathetic. Their is no reason to think the Wings will magically turn this around. Because if we don't win the Central, it's over.

If I'm in a crashing plane, I hope I'm not sitting next to you.

[taxijim 11]

Hossa has yet to really impress me. As it is, I'd rather have last year's team with Conklin instead of last year's with Conklin and Hossa.

I stated at the beginning of the season that adding Hossa might not be the great thing everyone thought it was.....but I got stomped into the ground by everyone so I kept quiet. It seems ludicrous that adding a 40 goal a year player would not be good for a team, however adding a guy like Hossa can upset the chemistry of the team. Last spring the Wings had that chemistry & all four lines were pulling like a well oiled machine (even Don Cherry commented "these guys aren't even working up a sweat"). Now that chemistry is gone & although the Wings have a decent record the domination is gone & a lot of games have been won by the skin of their teeth. You can stack a team with the best players but if there is poor team chemistry championships are hard to come by. I think this has affected Zett's play as well as many others.....just my thuoghts & I hope I'm wrong , but something is up wth this team!

[RWK23 0]

I stated at the beginning of the season that adding Hossa might not be the great thing everyone thought it was.....but I got stomped into the ground by everyone so I kept quiet. It seems ludicrous that adding a 40 goal a year player would not be good for a team, however adding a guy like Hossa can upset the chemistry of the team. Last spring the Wings had that chemistry & all four lines were pulling like a well oiled machine (even Don Cherry commented "these guys aren't even working up a sweat"). Now that chemistry is gone & although the Wings have a decent record the domination is gone & a lot of games have been won by the skin of their teeth. You can stack a team with the best players but if there is poor team chemistry championships are hard to come by. I think this has affected Zett's play as well as many others.....just my thuoghts & I hope I'm wrong , but something is up wth this team!

The expectations.

[titanium2 867]

First of all, Z and his line mates have the responsibility of playing against the top scoring line for every game. His responsibilities are on the defensive end first.

Yet, in regards to his offense, he could use some help. Z needs a playmaker that can set him up to shoot. Franzen and Samuelsson aren't confident in their playmaking abilities. Plus, Z needs a line mate who isn't a guy that functions best with 3rd line minutes (Hudler). Plus, that third line is really rolling. When the playoffs arrive and contracts are paid out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Leino as Z's right wing. He's like a magnet for the puck and he's a better puck handler and play maker than Filppula, who some might say should get the 2nd line promotion.

[titanium2 867]

Hossa has been great so far. With that said, he's just not the best two-way player on the team. Among the big four (13, 40, 93 & 81) he's likely last in two-way ability. We see highlights where he back checks really hard and takes the puck away and say he's a great defensive player, but he doesn't nearly anticipate defensively as well as Pav and Z.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

The problem is his line. Theres really only one ideal scenario on Hank's line, and thats a good set up from Hank to Franzen. A good set up from Hank to Sammy is likely going to result in a poor scoring chance because of Sammys typically poor shot placement. And while Franzen and Sammy are decent passers in their own right, their ability to find Hank on open ice is all but non-existant. If the obvious pass is there, Franzen and Sammy can make it efficiently, but otherwise, Hanks not getting the puck. And Hank knows that. You can tell every time hes on the ice that hes trying to do WAY too much.

As myself and others said last night while watching the game, Cleary and Hudler need to be promoted to Hank's line. Cleary is our best player right now, and brings energy every night. And Hudler has become our 2nd best playmaker. He is ALWAYS finding the open man and making the right play in the offensive zone. And his size? Rarely a factor. Hudler might've been one of the few guys that wasn't repeatedly pummeled and made ineffective last night because of the physical play.

With that said, as long as Hank's play isn't affecting our wins, then I'm fine with it. The last thing we need is a career year from a guy whos in line for a big paycheck.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

First of all, Z and his line mates have the responsibility of playing against the top scoring line for every game. His responsibilities are on the defensive end first.

Yet, in regards to his offense, he could use some help. Z needs a playmaker that can set him up to shoot. Franzen and Samuelsson aren't confident in their playmaking abilities. Plus, Z needs a line mate who isn't a guy that functions best with 3rd line minutes (Hudler). Plus, that third line is really rolling. When the playoffs arrive and contracts are paid out, I wouldn't be surprised to see Leino as Z's right wing. He's like a magnet for the puck and he's a better puck handler and play maker than Filppula, who some might say should get the 2nd line promotion.

Zetterberg has played about 2 games with Hudler this season. The "Hudler only plays well on the 3rd line" argument is bulls***. Hes been our most consistent forward all season and has looked better than Hank, Hossa, AND Datsyuk at various points during the season. Before Hudler came to the Wings, it was his "poor work ethic." Once he came to the Wings, he was "too small to compete." Now that hes easily proved those excuses wrong, he's "not suited for the 2nd line." Right.

[dats13owns 157]

He doesnt dominate like last two seasons, not even close. Is he injured?

I traded Datsyuk for him early last week in my fantasy league, since then Dats has had 6 goals, 5 assists; Z has had 0 goals, 2 assists. . . looks like I really blew it

[eva unit zero 271]

Now wait a minute here. Are some of you dare suggesting that without Pavel, Hank can't score as much? Hmmmm. Seems Pavel is doing pretty darn good on his own these days. I think Pavel is now coming out because he purposely took some time to make sure his line and Hossa were all settled in. Hank is a great great player, but I'm sorry he does not "lead" a line like Datsyuk. While nobody would call Pavel selfish, you could say that of Hank. So many here have bashed Pavel for so long and sold him as being somehow second fiddle to Hank, but for others we knew all along he was making a lot of things happen all over the ice for the entire team. That includes Hank. Perhaps, just perhaps, this apparent lack of amazing play by Hank has a lot to do with Datsyuk.

I wonder how much of it has to do with Hossa; and the fact that Hossa is on Dats' line and not Hank's.

[titanium2 867]

Zetterberg has played about 2 games with Hudler this season. The "Hudler only plays well on the 3rd line" argument is bulls***. Hes been our most consistent forward all season and has looked better than Hank, Hossa, AND Datsyuk at various points during the season. Before Hudler came to the Wings, it was his "poor work ethic." Once he came to the Wings, he was "too small to compete." Now that hes easily proved those excuses wrong, he's "not suited for the 2nd line." Right.

Not really when you consider that him on the 3rd line means that he's up against the lines that don't have to worry about Pav or Z on the defensive end. Yes, he is consistent; as a third-line scorer because he's up against the other teams lines that probably aren't their top two defensive lines. And it's not just the first "two" games of this season. They tried Hudler on Z's wing last year too and it didn't look all that good.

[Mikhailov 0]

Think of it from the view of an opposing defenseman. Last year, you're covering the ZDH line. Say Hank has the puck, you're covering him. If you're aggressive with him and try and strip him of the puck or force a bad decision or turnover, he's got two options. He can get around you with a nifty move and take a shot or pass. Or he can make the easy play, pass to Datsyuk who's open, and if he's not he'll probably get the puck from who ever intercepts it anyway. If Datsyuk gets the puck, he's probably gonna draw two defenders towards him. It's just human nature to try and be the guy who gets the puck unless it's an elite defensmen who can keep his head on straight. If you watch him, he usually skates up the boards waiting for a lane, and if nothing obvious is there he heads back down. He gets close enough to the guy at the high boards that he draws that guy in, then he skates back to the lower corner, and there's another guy there trying to strip him of the puck too. What does that do? It leaves atleast one guy on the ice uncovered if there's two guys on Pavel. As soon as that happens the other team is usually in trouble because there all gonna start to try covering for each other which leads to defensive breakdowns. Same thing with Holmstrom, especially on a rush.

I don't know who plays hockey here, but if a guy is heading straight for the net on a rush that's going to open a couple options. If no one covers him, you've got a guy open in front of the net, perfect. Or usually two guys will head to that person(a center and a D usually), because that's like a huge red light in front of the net, he's gonna be in a prime scoring location. So once again there's automatically going to be someone who's left unattended on the Red Wings. It's not always going to be Z that's uncovered, so Detroit passes the puck around and the other team starts to chase the puck to cover the open man. Pass the puck enough, move the other team around, Z is open, Datsyuk gets the puck, he's an incredible passer, you know what happens next. Last year Detroit did this to great success(obviously winning the cup), and in a lot of post game you'd hear the other team say, "we just didn't play our system", or "we didn't stick to our game plan well". That's because Detroit takes them off their game by doing that.

Now this year, same thing, except the opposing team probably discusses this line change first before the game. Any good coach would make big note of this change, especially teams in the west and more noteably in the central that played them so much last year. Now Hank doesn't have as talented play maker as last year and they know that. That means if they jump on Hank, and he throws the puck to Samuelsson, he's probably not gonna make someone look foolish. That's not a knock on him, just the type of player he is. He just isn't known for making brilliant passes or shaking two guys at once. So they're more likely to attack on Zetterberg and take their chances because Pavel isn't there to do something extroidinary. There is Franzen there that can do something remarkable but he's not Datsyuk either. Franzen get's around people usually one on one by going to the net with the puck. Datsyuk does that too, but his game is more keeping the puck to the side and drawing people in towards him. That's also why Hossa has had such success on the top line, because if they approach Datsyuk he can give it to Hossa, and he can work his own magic.

So what it breaks down to is Hank, and his line, is probably being hounded a lot more, with less options for puck management. Hudler is a great play maker too, but untill he gets a rep around the league as one they probably aren't going to respect him as much as they would Datsyuk. Remember when Hanks power play unit was on fire? It's because it was essentially like playing with Datsyuk. There was one less guy out there, so someone was open at all times.

If you put Datsyuk with Draper and Maltby, there probably wouldn't be the same production. Teams could almost afford to send three guys on Datsyuk because Drapes and Maltby aren't "scorers". A lot of it depends on your line mates and what type of player they are. Hossa being on the top line is almost like Zetterberg still being there, except the chemistry obviously isn't 100% the same as it is with Z.

I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening, it's just my view on things.

[Phazon 24]

Now I think he is just snakebitten. He had 9 shots on goal tonight and no goal.