Interesting Comparison

[Opie 308]

Link!

Thoughts?

Discussion?

[egroen 384]

It's not really that close. Why does he point out All Star Games and not All Star 1st and 2nd Team selections? One is a popularity contest and one is voted on by the professional hockey writers guild (like all major hockey awards).

Chelios was a 1st team All-Star 5 times (Stevens was twice) and a 2nd team All-Star twice (Stevens has 3). That is way more significant than the all star game... let's be honest, Chelios is not going to win a ton of popularity contests.

Both were a runner-up in Norris voting twice, but Chelios actually WON three times. We're not even comparing players of a different generation here -- Chelios won three times to Stevens' zilch against the very same competition.

Chelios has scored over 60 points eight times, and unlike Stevens, who only did so 5 times, Chelios was still able maintain a high defenseive game while doing so. When Stevens started playing better defensively, his offensive output dropped significantly. Despite Stevens great hits, he was still not the defensive player Chelios was, who was also a feared player but was much better positionally.

Stevens' one Conn Smythe trophy does not overcome this gap.

Edited January 8, 2009 by egroen

[GMRwings1983 8,803]

It's not really that close. Why does he point out All Star Games and not All Star 1st and 2nd Team selections? One is a popularity contest and one is voted on by the hockey writers guild (like all major hockey awards).

Chelios was a 1st team All-Star 5 times (Stevens was twice) and a 2nd team All-Star twice (Stevens has 3). That is way more significant than the all star game... let's be honest, Chelios is not going to win a ton of popularity contests.

Both were a runner-up in Norris voting twice, but Chelios actually WON three times.

Chelios has scored over 60 points eight times, and unlike Stevens, who only did so 5 times, Chelios was still able maintain a high defenseive game while doing so. When Stevens started playing better defensively, his offensive output dropped significantly. Despite Stevens great hits, he was still not the defensive player Chelios was, who was also a feeared player but was much better positionally.

Stevens' one Conn Smythe trophy does not overcome this gap.

Stevens did lead his team to 3 Cups. Chelli was a big part of several Cup teams, but that's different than being the number one leader.

Also, Stevens put up quite a few points in his career, so he's not just some defensive defenseman.

I think it's closer than what you say, especially when you consider Stevens' physicality and the fact that he could change games with his hits.

[egroen 384]

Stevens did lead his team to 3 Cups. Chelli was a big part of several Cup teams, but that's different than being the number one leader.

Also, Stevens put up quite a few points in his career, so he's not just some defensive defenseman.

I think it's closer than what you say, especially when you consider Stevens' physicality and the fact that he could change games with his hits.

Actually, Stevens did put up big points in his early career, but he was more of a Phaneuf type player then - all offense and big hits. Chelios, much like Lidstrom, never sacrificed his defensive play to put up big numbers. When Stevens started playing better defensively his numbers dropped significantly.

It is not close. 3 Norrises to 0 in the same era. You can make a case that Stevens is a better leader than Chelios, but not even close to as good of a defenseman.

Edited January 8, 2009 by egroen

[DatsMyWings13 4]

Actually, Stevens did put up big points in his early career, but he was more of a Phaneuf type player then - all offense and big hits. Chelios, much like Lidstrom, never sacrificed his defensive play to put up big numbers. When Stevens started playing better defensively his numbers dropped significantly.

It is not close. 3 Norrises to 0 in the same era. You can make a case that Stevens is a better leader than Chelios, but not even close to as good of a defenseman.

:thumbup:

[Datsyerberger 279]

It's not really that close. Why does he point out All Star Games and not All Star 1st and 2nd Team selections? One is a popularity contest and one is voted on by the professional hockey writers guild (like all major hockey awards).

Chelios was a 1st team All-Star 5 times (Stevens was twice) and a 2nd team All-Star twice (Stevens has 3). That is way more significant than the all star game... let's be honest, Chelios is not going to win a ton of popularity contests.

Both were a runner-up in Norris voting twice, but Chelios actually WON three times. We're not even comparing players of a different generation here -- Chelios won three times to Stevens' zilch against the very same competition.

Chelios has scored over 60 points eight times, and unlike Stevens, who only did so 5 times, Chelios was still able maintain a high defenseive game while doing so. When Stevens started playing better defensively, his offensive output dropped significantly. Despite Stevens great hits, he was still not the defensive player Chelios was, who was also a feared player but was much better positionally.

Stevens' one Conn Smythe trophy does not overcome this gap.

This, and it's not really even close. Stevens was a great player, but Chelios is arguably a top 10 all time defenseman. Some could even argue him into the top 5 going purely off defensive ability. People seem to forget all the accomplishments and Norris trophies he had in his prime, probably because that was sometime shortly before a meteor or some such wiped out the dinosaurs.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Stevens did lead his team to 3 Cups. Chelli was a big part of several Cup teams, but that's different than being the number one leader.

Also, Stevens put up quite a few points in his career, so he's not just some defensive defenseman.

I think it's closer than what you say, especially when you consider Stevens' physicality and the fact that he could change games with his hits.

I would say Brodeur lead those teams to the Stanley Cups with his sub 1.70 GAA in those three playoffs. Stevens had only like 11 points and wasn't even double digits in PIMS when he won the Conn Smyth, personally I would have given it to Brodeur.

Stevens won it primarily on his leadership ability on and off the ice, not by his play, even though he destroyed Lindros in that playoff haha. True he was a key leader in that playoff, but he did not lead them to the Stanley cup, he motivated them to it.

Chelios has had a far better career. Chelios got under everyone's skin and abcked up his mouth and play with his hockey.

[egroen 384]

If the Habs had won in '89 or Chicago in '92, Chelios would have one or two conn smythes as well. His performances were legendary in those playoffs. His '89 performance was better than Roy's and in '92 he single-handidly brought Chicago into the finals, playing 30 minutes a night, controlling every aspect of the game and scoring over a point per game. Stevens has never had a comparable playoff performance.

Edited January 8, 2009 by egroen

[Opie 308]

I say Cheli, but I agree with the people who said the last couple of years in Detroit took the shine off of his luster.

Lots of times players stay too long, maybe Barry Sanders (I am not a Lions fan and I was saddened by his retirement) had it right, leave while on top, leave them wanting more.

To me BS was the best running back in college or Pro history, raw talent (and stat wise in NCAA), that man was unbelievable!!! Had he stayed three more years and had the stats dropped significantly (in the nfl when a back goes down hill they go down fast) does that impact your thoughts on Barry Sanders, well probably not Barry that would be like saying the Wizard years ruined Jordan's career.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I say Cheli, but I agree with the people who said the last couple of years in Detroit took the shine off of his luster.

Lots of times players stay too long, maybe Barry Sanders (I am not a Lions fan and I was saddened by his retirement) had it right, leave while on top, leave them wanting more.

To me BS was the best running back in college or Pro history, raw talent (and stat wise in NCAA), that man was unbelievable!!! Had he stayed three more years and had the stats dropped significantly (in the nfl when a back goes down hill they go down fast) does that impact your thoughts on Barry Sanders, well probably not Barry that would be like saying the Wizard years ruined Jordan's career.

Doesn't really work as a comparison, seeing Barry's career ended relatively few years ago while Chelios's hair first started showing a little grey back when man was beating rocks together and painting on the walls of caves.

[egroen 384]

Most people can't remember the Chelios of a decade ago, let alone of TWO decades ago. I find he is one of the most underrated defenseman ever, simply because people identify him more as the crusty old curmudgeon of the past 5 years than the utterly dominating defenseman of the 80s and 90s. Maybe about a decade after his retirement (middle of this century) he will start getting the respect he deserves again.

That article was a joke.

[Opie 308]

The article was absolutely stupid, waste of time reading but I thought it would spawn a good debate here!

BLOGGERS SHOULD BE SHOT!!!

Well at least the ones who pretend to be real journalists but can not remove their homertism!!

GS&T I made that word up for you!!!!

[Datsyerberger 279]

Most people can't remember the Chelios of a decade ago, let alone of TWO decades ago. I find he is one of the most underrated defenseman ever, simply because people identify him more as the crusty old curmudgeon of the past 5 years than the utterly dominating defenseman of the 80s and 90s. Maybe about a decade after his retirement (middle of this century) he will start getting the respect he deserves again.

That article was a joke.

Not atleast until man discovers a means of rapid intergalactic travel, and he only retires then to go play in the Intergalactic Hockey League.

[egroen 384]

....probably because that was sometime shortly before a meteor or some such wiped out the dinosaurs.

I thought it was Chelios that wiped out the dinosaurs???

[Datsyerberger 279]

I thought it was Chelios that wiped out the dinosaurs???

Maybe that's why it happened so fast..

[ltgator333 3]

Watch this before you talk about Stevens and his big hits..

[weGotTheCup89 41]

lol Smelios

[BeeRYCE 2]

All in all, Chelios was the better player, he was far more complete.

Chelios and Stevens were even equal defensively (in both the their primes), but Stevens just did it in a more physical way. Now Stevens did have an offensive upside, but not nearly as effective as Chelios' upside. The only reason I would have Stevens over Cheli is the fear that Stevens would able to send over to the other team... I think Cheli was equal or better than Chelios in every aspect except for physicality and maybe leadership, but that's only because Stevens was a notorious superb leader compared to Chelios' very good leadership.

[C-TownWing 0]

This, and it's not really even close. Stevens was a great player, but Chelios is arguably a top 10 all time defenseman. Some could even argue him into the top 5 going purely off defensive ability. People seem to forget all the accomplishments and Norris trophies he had in his prime, probably because that was sometime shortly before a meteor or some such wiped out the dinosaurs.

I don't consider it close either. The blogger guy nutted up and admitted bias, so I guess I have to also, I'm a huge Cheli guy. I came of age as a hockey fan when Bourque and Cheli OWNED the first AS team and passed the Norris back and forth. Add in Lidstrom of course, and those are your three best all-around Ds of the last 25 years, IMO. I can't say that I remember Stevens ever being on that level, although he was obviously a great leader and a great player. I'd have no reservations about putting him in a group somewhere behind the top three along with Leetch, Pronger, Coffey, etc.

Some of those comments are pretty hilarious...one said that Cheli only really contributed to his 1986 Cup--he was a Norris finalist in 2002 and led the league in +/-. Another said that the Blues would have three Cups and "probably where the Wings are now" if they had kept Stevens. Good one. Still another held the fact that Cheli never wore the C IN DETROIT against him. Ummm...hello? Steve Yzerman? Considering Cheli wore it in both Montreal and Chicago, he probably would have for the Wings if we didn't already have the best captain ever.

[Guest Shoreline]

They aren't similar. Chelios was never really a big up-front hitter even near the same realm as Stevens. He was a nasty player and had a different type of edge to his game than Stevens had, which is why he was more hated than Stevens by Wings fans when he was with the Hawks. With Stevens around players just needed to keep their heads up and they'll be fine, but in the case of Cheli for most of his career (up until a couple seasons into the Wings roster) going into a corner with Cheli would occasionally result in a slash to the leg or a rough check from behind into the boards. Like I said, different edge. As much as I hated the Devils, it was hard to hate Stevens because he was, for the most part, a clean player and hitter.

[Reds4Life 51]

This is very unfair to Stevens. Chelios in his prime was simply outstanding, he was physical, great defensively, scored at PPG pace and played more than 30 minutes a game. Chelios is top10 defensemen of all time, Stevens is not. Stevens is not even close to Chelios.

Edited January 9, 2009 by Reds4Life

[Datsyerberger 279]

This is very unfair to Stevens. Chelios in his prime was simply outstanding, he was physical, great defensively, scored at PPG pace and played more than 30 minutes a game. Chelios is top10 defensemen of all time, Stevens is not. Stevens is not even close to Chelios.

Yea, it is an unfair comparison. I think Konstaninov and Stevens is a more interesting comparison. Both huge hitters (though Vlad wasn't as dirty passionate), with a decent offensive skill set. A shame with Vlad, it would have been interesting to see how those 2 matched up at the end of their respective careers had Vladdy had a full one.