Idiotic Pierre Rant

[Drake_Marcus 890]

The worst part is the league is going to actually discuss the issue.

By this I hope they mean discuss some ways of coming down hard on players who want to fight with a visor on. How dumb does it look for players to be punching helmets and visors, or even worse, a player with a visor on punching at someone without one? This really should be the only related discussion, as any serious discussion of actually banning fighting in hockey should be inherently ignored.

I agree. And while we're on it, let's ban TooToo from fighting so he can finally disappear from the league.

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

UP2HERE lives only 4 hours away from me- he knows that Hockey isn't on the verge of disappearing. Hockey is a religion in Canada. Hockey is most certainly strong in many northern states (Michigan certainly doesn't struggle to maintain healthy hockey leagues at every age and level of competition).

Absoluetly agree. Hockey isn't going away anytime soon.

Does Hockey have to compete with football in the South? No. It never had to and it never will. The NHL has been profitible for many, many, many years. The Superbowl is an infant compared to grampy Stanley Cup Finals.

Two different championship venues/settings which can be like comparing apples to oranges, but I agree with you that hockey pretty much has not as much competition with football down in the south, not as much as north from a viewership standpoint and the like. There are minor league franchises and the like here and there, heck there's one a little over an hour drive from where I live located in Southern Mississippi. So, hockey is out there in bits and pockets south of the Sunbelt, but not to the degree than up North/Northeast/West obviously, in terms of it being one of the more popular things out there. You're not going to find many people down here that view it as one of their favorite sports. That's not to say they hate the sport or think it is terrible, far from it. If I were Wings apparel when I work out or my jersey every now and then, very rarely have I gotten bad looks or snobby commentary that I'm an idiot or something for liking hockey. If anything, it is an icebreaker for a good/brief conversation about the sport, and people are curious to an extent.

Canadians gladly pour cash into the NHL with abandon and so do many, many Americans.

Yep.

Do I wish hockey would have a resurgence like it did in the States when NY won the cup in the nineties? Yeah, sure. But anyone that thinks the NHL will fold unless it does is crazy. Contraction will only remove teams from unprofitable areas. Revenue sharing makes the situation seem more dire than it really is.

As a hockey fan I obviously wish the game was more popular as well, but it's not, probably won't be anytime soon, and it's not my job or duty to convert people down here to hockey. If they want to watch, great. I'm simply just going to enjoy watching a sport I really like watching.

The NHL isn't going away anytime soon. Contraction of teams is a bad option IMO and IMO, to some degree, is an informally snobby way of saying that hockey doesn't belong South of Illinois 0% at all.

Any I really, really don't think the average Southern sports fan would blanch at a hockey fight. MMA doesn't struggle to get viewership from Southern US markets.

I don't speak for all Southerners, but for me personally of course I like a good run of the mill fight like pretty much anybody else. I don't do cartflips over it though as a fight every now and then is to be expected, and MMA is well, the MMA and has fighting by defauly. I like fighting, but no more/less than a good slapshot/snapshot, clutch goaltending, great skating, etc.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Absoluetly agree. Hockey isn't going away anytime soon.

Two different championship venues/settings which can be like comparing apples to oranges, but I agree with you that hockey pretty much has not as much competition with football down in the south, not as much as north from a viewership standpoint and the like. There are minor league franchises and the like here and there, heck there's one a little over an hour drive from where I live located in Southern Mississippi. So, hockey is out there in bits and pockets south of the Sunbelt, but not to the degree than up North/Northeast/West obviously, in terms of it being one of the more popular things out there. You're not going to find many people down here that view it as one of their favorite sports. That's not to say they hate the sport or think it is terrible, far from it. If I were Wings apparel when I work out or my jersey every now and then, very rarely have I gotten bad looks or snobby commentary that I'm an idiot or something for liking hockey. If anything, it is an icebreaker for a good/brief conversation about the sport, and people are curious to an extent.

Yep.

As a hockey fan I obviously wish the game was more popular as well, but it's not, probably won't be anytime soon, and it's not my job or duty to convert people down here to hockey. If they want to watch, great. I'm simply just going to enjoy watching a sport I really like watching.

The NHL isn't going away anytime soon. Contraction of teams is a bad option IMO and IMO, to some degree, is an informally snobby way of saying that hockey doesn't belong South of Illinois 0% at all.

I don't speak for all Southerners, but for me personally of course I like a good run of the mill fight like pretty much anybody else. I don't do cartflips over it though as a fight every now and then is to be expected, and MMA is well, the MMA and has fighting by defauly. I like fighting, but no more/less than a good slapshot/snapshot, clutch goaltending, great skating, etc.

Oh I have no problems with Hockey in the South- I always fight on the behalf of hockey fans regardless of geographic location. I think the whole "if it snows here we deserve a team first" thing is absolutely asinine. The Lightning has a large and very loyal fan base- good for them, they deserve it. And I think Vegas would be a perfect location for an NHL team- no way they wouldn't fill the arena every night in Vegas. Full arenas in the south make me much happier than struggling franchises in "traditional" locations.

EDIT: That "good for them they deserve it" quote sounds kind of snarky- it's not intended to be so. The Lightning really did do great work growing and maintaining their fan base at the beginning.

Edited January 21, 2009 by Drake_Marcus

[FirstSamuel1745 0]

What about the 2007 ducks which led to an increase of fighting? Or what about the many early exits the wings suffered with their weak teams? Or the great wings teams of the 90's that carried Probert and Kocur?

So the 2007 Ducks clinch the whole argument? Their Cup had nothing to do with superior defense and goaltending? Come on now, you're smarter than that.

As for the Wings, can you demonstrate that the Cup winners in those years were throwing down the gloves at every opportunity? The Devils weren't. The Avs weren't. And the Wings never won a Cup with Probert; and Kocur RARELY fought on the Cup teams he was on. The evidence just isn't there.

[Guest mindfly]

If you fight in NFL, NBA, MLB etc etc you will get suspended and pay fine's etc so why shouldn't it be the same in NHL?

[DMAC 25 18]

If you fight in NFL, NBA, MLB etc etc you will get suspended and pay fine's etc so why shouldn't it be the same in NHL?

come on basketball, baseball and football never have allowed it but the NHL always has so to take it away now would just be stupid and they would probably lose fans

[hokike 1]

So the 2007 Ducks clinch the whole argument? Their Cup had nothing to do with superior defense and goaltending? Come on now, you're smarter than that.

As for the Wings, can you demonstrate that the Cup winners in those years were throwing down the gloves at every opportunity? The Devils weren't. The Avs weren't. And the Wings never won a Cup with Probert; and Kocur RARELY fought on the Cup teams he was on. The evidence just isn't there.

....and profighters answer will be like: but I want fights 'cuz of reg season is so annoying, I want fight 'cuz of life sucks!!!

But why Ken Holland should care of "profighters" personal problems?

[esteef 2,679]

So the 2007 Ducks clinch the whole argument? Their Cup had nothing to do with superior defense and goaltending? Come on now, you're smarter than that.

As for the Wings, can you demonstrate that the Cup winners in those years were throwing down the gloves at every opportunity? The Devils weren't. The Avs weren't. And the Wings never won a Cup with Probert; and Kocur RARELY fought on the Cup teams he was on. The evidence just isn't there.

The Wings were pushed around and bounced out of the playoffs cause they were soft. Everybody at the time knew it and said it. The evidence is there in the games, you just have to be willing to accept it.

esteef

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

If you fight in NFL, NBA, MLB etc etc you will get suspended and pay fine's etc so why shouldn't it be the same in NHL?

The next time you see someone spend 30 seconds in a corner getting hacked, whacked, and chopped to death by the defense to try and get the ball back in football, basketball, or baseball, I'll yield to this argument.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The Wings were pushed around and bounced out of the playoffs cause they were soft. Everybody at the time knew it and said it. The evidence is there in the games, you just have to be willing to accept it.

esteef

Haven't followed this thread very close but wanted to say one thing.

I wish players wouldn't feel the need to body slam another guy. I understand if you're a non fighter and you're getting your clock cleaned that you might try to grab a guy's pants and flip him off his feet to end the fight. But the potential danger of that is so great. Hitting your head like that Sanderson kid and maybe dying. Skates flying up in the air to maybe slice some poor refs face up.

I just wish there were enough gentleman out there that fought that would know, when a guy is not fighting back, that there's no need to keep filling him in. Maybe if you stop beating on him b/c he's not punching back, maybe he won't feel the need to flip you on your head and maybe concuss you or worse.

I know its largely a self preservation move but sometimes its not. And you don't "win" a hockey fight by taking 10 shots to the back of the noggin just to flip a guy on his ass. This isn't wrestling for Pete's sake.

[esteef 2,679]

I know its largely a self preservation move but sometimes its not. And you don't "win" a hockey fight by taking 10 shots to the back of the noggin just to flip a guy on his ass. This isn't wrestling for Pete's sake.

Agree. Tell that to all those clowns who vote over at hockeyfights.com

esteef

[ilmickeyli 40]

2+2 = vaginas

[Guest tini]

I dont understand why you would want to completly take fighting out of hockey. at this point there really isnt that much fighting in the league at all especially in detroit. generally itll be an argument that may look like it could become a fight, the refs always seem to split it up before that happens though.

[Guest micah]

If you fight in NFL, NBA, MLB etc etc you will get suspended and pay fine's etc so why shouldn't it be the same in NHL?

Great question! The answer is: "Because fighting is rad, and hockey games are better with the possibility of a scrap than they are without it."

While there's no reason that a 260lb goon should be jumping skilled players left and right - but I cannot think of any reason not to let two adults who agree to a scrap by mutual consent not have their way. furthermore, I've never seen a poll that indicated that less than 80% of NA hockey fans wanted to keep fighting in the game, and while I've heard dozens of NHLers talking about the merits of fighting and/or fighters, I can't think of a single active player who is calling for a ban on fighting. The reason there is fighting in hockey is because virtually everyone, the fans, the players and the league, all want it there. Why take it away?

How come the NHL plays on ice? The NFL, NBA, MLB etc don't routinely play on ice.

[HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878]

Pierre is a sissy, wow.

[scotzman 29]

I actually beleive the NHL needs to seriously curtail fighting in order to survive. A big reason the NHL lacks a major TV deal is the lack of exposure in the Southern states. There are 30 million people in Southern California, 24 million people in Texas, 18 million in Florida and 10 million people in Georgia and a vast majority of these people (Over 80 million potential fans)dont understand fighting. They watch football,basketball and baseball religously,none of which have fights on a regular basis.While I myself dont mind seeing a good fight I can also understand how it could also be difficult to explain to young child why these men are fighting. Pierre Maguire is a tool for sure but he may have a misguided point.

They also watch NASCAR for the crashes, MMA for the brutal submissions and knockouts and the NFL for the huge hits.

Can you explain to me how two guys fighting on skates is something that this demographic would not find entertaining?

The truth is, people who want fighting out of hockey also want violence out of sports completely. You will never reach these people. The only way the NHL gains more fans is by marketing the game better. The end. The game is fine... show people what is great about it and they will love it.

Edited January 22, 2009 by scotzman

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

Football and baseball weren't always so popular. With the advent of tv and radio, inetrest grew because these games were broadcast to people that didn't know or understand the sport. Games weren't broadcast because of interest in them, they were shoved down the throats of viewing/listening audiences until people that were not already fans understood them. The NHL will never be a top 4 sport unless this happens. If the league wants to grow the sport exponentially they will have to spend a lot of time and money making people see something they don't understand, and then like it. That';s not going to happen...hell, they won't even give existing fans a good quality system of broadcasts now. I actually want hockey to remain a niche sport. If the league grows to 50, 60 70 or 80 teams, the game will have changed into something I wouldn't watch anyway. Look at the changes that have come about to add teams where they are now. Stop looking at other sports to determine the heart of hockey. Stop watering it down with politically and socially correct behavior. It's hockey. If you don't like it, don't watch. Just leave us alone or we will take you to the boards like it's game 7 of the SCF. I don't care if people don't like it. What...you wanna go?

[ManLuv4Clears 7]

Football and baseball weren't always so popular. With the advent of tv and radio, inetrest grew because these games were broadcast to people that didn't know or understand the sport. Games weren't broadcast because of interest in them, they were shoved down the throats of viewing/listening audiences until people that were not already fans understood them. The NHL will never be a top 4 sport unless this happens. If the league wants to grow the sport exponentially they will have to spend a lot of time and money making people see something they don't understand, and then like it. That';s not going to happen...hell, they won't even give existing fans a good quality system of broadcasts now. I actually want hockey to remain a niche sport. If the league grows to 50, 60 70 or 80 teams, the game will have changed into something I wouldn't watch anyway. Look at the changes that have come about to add teams where they are now. Stop looking at other sports to determine the heart of hockey. Stop watering it down with politically and socially correct behavior. It's hockey. If you don't like it, don't watch. Just leave us alone or we will take you to the boards like it's game 7 of the SCF. I don't care if people don't like it. What...you wanna go?

Couldn't agree with this post more. I think old Gary really needs a reality check about the bolded part.

[scotzman 29]

If the league wants to grow the sport exponentially they will have to spend a lot of time and money making people see something they don't understand, and then like it.

Stop looking at other sports to determine the heart of hockey. Stop watering it down with politically and socially correct behavior. It's hockey. If you don't like it, don't watch.

:thumbup:

Exactly... if the NHL would just be true to it's roots and market what is great about the game more people would watch it and the base would be even more loyal. I'm not into gimmicks or finding ways to attract new fans through bigger nets, no fighting, etc. but taking the great game that it is and showcasing the players will eventually lure in new fans.

Honestly, now that I live in Ohio, I am converting my friends here to the NHL. The best thing is when they go to a game, but I have just exposed them to the Wings games and slowly but surely they ask questions and are really starting to enjoy it.

A friend of mine emailed me yesterday and said he has been addicted lately... last year during the Cup Finals I got him to watch a few games and answered his questions (what's the blue line, what's offsides, what is icing, what's a powerplay, etc.) and now he's hooked. Maybe Gary the Rat should have his marketing department pay some of us to start a grassroots campaign and show our friends what hockey is all about... it's so crazy it just might work.

[bonan78 1]

First of all, does anyone have a link to that particular interview, either in text or a video?

Second, trying to change the game for the sake of drawing a "new" audience hasn't worked well for the NHL (i.e. FoxTrax). Anyone in a decision-making capacity who would consider banning fighting should be put out of their misery. Hockey is nothing like any of the other "major" sports in so many ways, trying to change it to make it more like the others is impossible. Fighting, while it can take away from the flow of the game if it gets out of hand, but it can turn around a game, and sometimes a whole season or playoff series, when it happens for the right reasons, to settle a score or to keep cheapshot artists from running rampant (i.e. Claude Lemieux). Fighting always has, and hopefully always will, had a place in hockey as we know it.

Third, completely unrelated, I think they should make the shootouts 5 shooters per team instead of 3. Shootouts are exciting as heck but they are over too quickly.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

If you fight in NFL, NBA, MLB etc etc you will get suspended and pay fine's etc so why shouldn't it be the same in NHL?

They are on hockey skates. Those other three are not, much different for breaking up a fight, and the ability to use a stick as a weapon throughout the game.

Fighting belongs in hockey, the day Gary Bettman gets his wish and has it gone will be the day the NHL crumbles.

[up2here 41]

They also watch NASCAR for the crashes, MMA for the brutal submissions and knockouts and the NFL for the huge hits.

Can you explain to me how two guys fighting on skates is something that this demographic would not find entertaining?

The truth is, people who want fighting out of hockey also want violence out of sports completely. You will never reach these people. The only way the NHL gains more fans is by marketing the game better. The end. The game is fine... show people what is great about it and they will love it.

Im not saying they wont grow to like the fighting but the NHL may not have the time to wait. By the way if someone only watched hockey for the fights,NASCAR for the crashes and the NFL for huge hits then most games would be very boring to that person. MMA...you cant compare that to Hockey.