Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[Guest micah]

so are u saying u would rather take the risk and let our captain get injured?? whats your point, let him get the rest he needs and like holland said hes done everything the league has asked him to do before, so i think he should be able to play it when he wants

Yes I am. If the risk of playing on it is so slight that he is able to play with it as it is week in and week out otherwise, I say have him play in the ASG. We just disagree, and that's okay.

[OsGOD 3]

how much exposure did cindy even have yesterday... i think i saw him once at the beginning and that was it.... if that is the case... its SAD

[HockeytownRN 0]

Yes I am. If the risk of playing on it is so slight that he is able to play with it as it is week in and week out otherwise, I say have him play in the ASG. We just disagree, and that's okay.

Neither you nor I know the extent of Lidstrom's injury, but pure speculation can also go the other way. Some injuries do not need surgery, but do require treatment AND REST in order to heal completely. Repetative usage causes more pain, and even more damage. Why not go out on a limb here and say that Lids has been tough and has been playing through pain most of this season already so that he doesn't miss any important regular season games, and takes advice from his Doctor that resting the injury is what he needs to do right now. Thus, letting him heal for the most important "gala" of HIS career, the playoffs. As a fan (who you say the ASG is all about, not the corporate ticket holders) I would much rather a healthy Lidstrom in the playoffs. If he DID play in the ASG and ended up having to be out a couple of weeks, or even need surgery, I as a fan would in that case be really pissed off that he played in the ASG with an injury.

[Guest micah]

Neither you nor I know the extent of Lidstrom's injury, but pure speculation can also go the other way. Some injuries do not need surgery, but do require treatment AND REST in order to heal completely. Repetative usage causes more pain, and even more damage. Why not go out on a limb here and say that Lids has been tough and has been playing through pain most of this season already so that he doesn't miss any important regular season games, and takes advice from his Doctor that resting the injury is what he needs to do right now. Thus, letting him heal for the most important "gala" of HIS career, the playoffs. As a fan (who you say the ASG is all about, not the corporate ticket holders) I would much rather a healthy Lidstrom in the playoffs. If he DID play in the ASG and ended up having to be out a couple of weeks, or even need surgery, I as a fan would in that case be really pissed off that he played in the ASG with an injury.

Good points all, but consider that playing ion one ASG for Nick is the equilivant of playing what, 5 minutes of a regular season game? I don't think it's too much to ask. In the ASG he would be playing an even less physical game than usual, with less reason to sacrifice himself for the win, and he certainly wouldn't be playing the kind of minutes he has been for Detroit (in spite of his injury). I fail to see how there is a great risk of a playoff changing injury if he would have played in the ASG. If his elbow really needed rest, he could have taken off the game before the ASG and the ASG itself and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I would much rather a healthy Lidstrom in the playoffs. If he DID play in the Jan 20th Phoenix game and ended up having to be out a couple of weeks, or even need surgery, I as a fan would in that case be really pissed off that he played 26 minutes in the game against Phoenix with an injury. Should Nick Lidstrom be playing 25+ minutes a night if he believes that he is in danger of injuring himself for the playoffs if he aggravates his elbow more?

[Kira 451]

What if they were under the express orders of their physicians to not travel...were they supposed to defy those orders and go to Montreal anyway???

Hockeytown RN you bring up a good point. Repetitive stress injuries are extremely painful. I have experienced that first hand, and when I went to the doctor for it, he put me on a synthetic form of morphine for the pain. I was given orders not to go anywhere while I was on the med. Now I'm not saying that what Nick has is a repetitive stress injury, but were that the case, then it would have been a possibility that he may not have been able to travel, and in that case, what do you do?

And before you bust my chops over this, keep in mind that I ask this as a hypothetical situation.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Kira

[Guest micah]

What if they were under the express orders of their physicians to not travel...were they supposed to defy those orders and go to Montreal anyway???

Hockeytown RN you bring up a good point. Repetitive stress injuries are extremely painful. I have experienced that first hand, and when I went to the doctor for it, he put me on a synthetic form of morphine for the pain. I was given orders not to go anywhere while I was on the med. Now I'm not saying that what Nick has is a repetitive stress injury, but were that the case, then it would have been a possibility that he may not have been able to travel, and in that case, what do you do?

And before you bust my chops over this, keep in mind that I ask this as a hypothetical situation.

I take no issue with someone staying home on Doctor's orders. Similarily, I think that if their body was in such a fragile state that it was unable to travel to the ASG, then they have no business playing tomorrow night anyway.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Yes I am. If the risk of playing on it is so slight that he is able to play with it as it is week in and week out otherwise, I say have him play in the ASG. We just disagree, and that's okay.

We're Red Wings fans. Our ultimate objective is to win the Stanley Cup. We cannot do that with an injured Nick Lidstrom. We need everyone at 100% (or close enough) to achieve our main goal.

The ASG is a meaningless, stupid exhibition game. Now tell me again which is more important for Nick and for his fans.

[Broken 16 381]

this suspension is unwarranted

Are you f***in' retarded? NOBODY IS CONTESTING THE SUSPENSION. How many times does that have to be said? Get a life already!

esteef

Really? Read the line above your quote. Its what I was responding to, you dips***. Just when I thought you couldn't be more of a doosh... you prove me wrong. Well done.

Furthermore, who cares about Lidstrom not going? I'm over it. I still think SOMEONE should have been there with a Winged Wheel. Period. I'm embarassed that our Stanley Cup Champion's didn't even bother to send a single representative to a national event hosted by the league. You can't sit there and tell me that not a single person on the Wings wouldn't have been excited to go. Oh wait, I forgot... aside from carnal knowledge of the Wings injuries and travel habits... you're also have a finger on the pulse of the dressing room. Talk about getting a life... you need to come back to reality dude. Seriously.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Broken 16

[HockeytownRN 0]

Good points all, but consider that playing ion one ASG for Nick is the equilivant of playing what, 5 minutes of a regular season game? I don't think it's too much to ask. In the ASG he would be playing an even less physical game than usual, with less reason to sacrifice himself for the win, and he certainly wouldn't be playing the kind of minutes he has been for Detroit (in spite of his injury). I fail to see how there is a great risk of a playoff changing injury if he would have played in the ASG. If his elbow really needed rest, he could have taken off the game before the ASG and the ASG itself and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I would much rather a healthy Lidstrom in the playoffs. If he DID play in the Jan 20th Phoenix game and ended up having to be out a couple of weeks, or even need surgery, I as a fan would in that case be really pissed off that he played 26 minutes in the game against Phoenix with an injury. Should Nick Lidstrom be playing 25+ minutes a night if he believes that he is in danger of injuring himself for the playoffs if he aggravates his elbow more?

It's his elbow (again, from what the team rep. said), so yes playing even a non-physical game such as the ASG is not resting it, let alone having to rub elbows with all of Bettmans' corporates (I mean the fans) and shake hands all weekend long. It's not a matter of him playing 5 minutes of hockey, and if his injury was say...sore ribs....i'd say suck it up and be at the All-Star Game. Rest means not using that limb as much as you can, and i'm being serious here i'm not trying to argue with you. I just went through a football injury with my son so learned a lot more about it than just my medical experience and knowledge. You don't have to agree with me, I just wanted to give you something else to think about. What really bothers me about this whole thing is that the media, Bettman, Crosby, Burke (I could go on and on) are dragging Nick and Pavel through the mud about this and I really do give them the benefit of the doubt that they thought they needed to skip the ASG. I don't know them personally but i've met them both several times at the Toast of Hockeytown, I never miss a Wings game, and as a fan of theirs I just believe that they had no idea that this whole fiasco was going to happen. Let's see what they say tomorrow night to form more opinions.

[Broken 16 381]

Just a slight correction: His wife was not giving birth at that time. She was on bedrest due to a difficult pregnancy, and was staying in Florida with her parents. He just went for a visit. I supported his decision then and I still say he made the right one.

Oh, and Micah, I'm miffed that you didn't come for breakfast this morning. Fargo has an airport. You could have just gotten on a plane and been here. Surely you are aware that I would be eating breakfast. If anyone on my friends list had called me and asked to come, I'd have gladly let them watch me eat. You didn't. Therefore you are not tough and are a douchebag. What? You didn't know about the invitation to attend until now? You didn't realize that just because other people were eating that you would be expected to come and watch them eat? Now that it's too late to catch that flight? No one told you? Hmm. Maybe I've been too harsh on you. Maybe I should reconsider telling everyone how you are not supportive of LGW.

Worst. Analogy. Ever.

[Guest micah]

We're Red Wings fans. Our ultimate objective is to win the Stanley Cup. We cannot do that with an injured Nick Lidstrom. We need everyone at 100% (or close enough) to achieve our main goal.

The ASG is a meaningless, stupid exhibition game. Now tell me again which is more important for Nick and for his fans.

I don't believe that the ASG and the Stanley Cup is likely to be an either/or proposition. While Nick certainly could have been injured in the game, I doubt that one additional game (at a lower effort level than he's accustomed to giving, playing less minutes than he's used to playing) would be the difference between being healthy for the playoffs or not. again, it' spossible, but it is, in my admitedly unninformed oppinion, unlikely.

Does anyone know if Nick been practicing over the past few weeks?

[Kira 451]

I'm with you. I've met Nick and Pasha before as well, and neither of them strike me as the type who would fake an injury just to get out of this. I believe them when they say they hurt. They are not the type who fake it...they give everything they have out there every night. I believe them, and if they sit out tomorrow night, oh well. It's the way this whole thing was handled that bothers the hell out of me.

[Guest micah]

It's his elbow (again, from what the team rep. said), so yes playing even a non-physical game such as the ASG is not resting it, let alone having to rub elbows with all of Bettmans' corporates (I mean the fans) and shake hands all weekend long. It's not a matter of him playing 5 minutes of hockey, and if his injury was say...sore ribs....i'd say suck it up and be at the All-Star Game. Rest means not using that limb as much as you can, and i'm being serious here i'm not trying to argue with you. I just went through a football injury with my son so learned a lot more about it than just my medical experience and knowledge. You don't have to agree with me, I just wanted to give you something else to think about. What really bothers me about this whole thing is that the media, Bettman, Crosby, Burke (I could go on and on) are dragging Nick and Pavel through the mud about this and I really do give them the benefit of the doubt that they thought they needed to skip the ASG. I don't know them personally but i've met them both several times at the Toast of Hockeytown, I never miss a Wings game, and as a fan of theirs I just believe that they had no idea that this whole fiasco was going to happen. Let's see what they say tomorrow night to form more opinions.

Fair enough.

I don't know either of them personally, but I don't believe tfor one minute that you can discern anything about what sort of men they are by how they treat fans at a meet and greet. Frankly - I think I have a pretty good idea what kind of men they are after watching them witness their teamates getting roughed up on more than one occasion without sticking up for them. It makes me skeptical of them in all things, and it probably shouldn't.

Edited January 26, 2009 by micah

[esteef 2,679]

Really? Read the line above your quote. Its what I was responding to, you dips***. Just when I thought you couldn't be more of a doosh... you prove me wrong. Well done.

OK. You're not retarded. Please ensure that ONE person understands the suspension was warranted. Thank You.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Fair enough.

I don't know either of them personally, but I don't believe tfor one minute that you can discern anything about what sort of men they are by how they treat fans at a meet and greet. Frankly - I think I have a pretty good idea what kind of men they are after watching them witness their teamates getting roughed up on more than one occasion without sticking up for them. It makes me skeptical of them in all things, and it probably shouldn't.

I have a real problem with this statement.....if you want to insinuate that Nick and Pav are basically assholes because they won't get into a fight with someone to stick up for a teammate, at least come on out and say as much.

Personally, I don't want the two best players on my team getting into fistfights to prove their manhood or to prove they give a s*** about their teammates.

[esteef 2,679]

I have a real problem with this statement.....if you want to insinuate that Nick and Pav are basically assholes because they won't get into a fight with someone to stick up for a teammate, at least come on out and say as much.

Personally, I don't want the two best players on my team getting into fistfights to prove their manhood or to prove they give a s*** about their teammates.

Yeah! That's our best PKers job!

[Broken 16 381]

OK. You're not retarded. Please ensure that ONE person understands the suspension was warranted. Thank You.

It's called a direct response to someone that responded to me. Not rocket science...

Edited January 26, 2009 by Broken 16

[96warrior 11]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...dstrom_pav.html

Red Wings' Nicklas Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk upset about having to sit out a game

by Ansar Khan

Monday January 26, 2009, 3:54 PM

Update from Monday's practice: Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom and center Pavel Datsyuk both said they were disappointed in the NHL's decision to force them to sit out Tuesday's game in Columbus for withdrawing from the All-Star game due to injuries and not showing up in Montreal for the off-ice activities.

The Wings said, contrary to reports, there is no appeal process. It's cut and dry. They will not play tonorrow. Technically, it's not a suspension, as they will be paid. It's simply the NHL enforcing an understanding it and the league's general managers agreed to last February.

Lidstrom, who's been battling tentinitis in his right elbow for some time, said he didn't find out until Friday that he could have avoided the ban if he would have showed in Montreal for the off-ice part of it. But he said it didn't matter. He still wouldn't have showed up because he needed to stay home and get treatment for his elbow.

Datsyuk said he wasn't aware this loophole either -- that's how Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby avoided a one-game ban. Datsyuk said he's not sure if his strained hip flexor would have allowed him to play Tuesday anyway.

[esteef 2,679]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...dstrom_pav.html

Red Wings' Nicklas Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk upset about having to sit out a game

by Ansar Khan

Monday January 26, 2009, 3:54 PM

Update from Monday's practice: Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom and center Pavel Datsyuk both said they were disappointed in the NHL's decision to force them to sit out Tuesday's game in Columbus for withdrawing from the All-Star game due to injuries and not showing up in Montreal for the off-ice activities.

The Wings said, contrary to reports, there is no appeal process. It's cut and dry. They will not play tonorrow. Technically, it's not a suspension, as they will be paid. It's simply the NHL enforcing an understanding it and the league's general managers agreed to last February.

Lidstrom, who's been battling tentinitis in his right elbow for some time, said he didn't find out until Friday that he could have avoided the ban if he would have showed in Montreal for the off-ice part of it. But he said it didn't matter. He still wouldn't have showed up because he needed to stay home and get treatment for his elbow.

Datsyuk said he wasn't aware this loophole either -- that's how Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby avoided a one-game ban. Datsyuk said he's not sure if his strained hip flexor would have allowed him to play Tuesday anyway.

Interesting....

[Guest micah]

I have a real problem with this statement.....if you want to insinuate that Nick and Pav are basically assholes because they won't get into a fight with someone to stick up for a teammate, at least come on out and say as much.

Personally, I don't want the two best players on my team getting into fistfights to prove their manhood or to prove they give a s*** about their teammates.

I've said it here a million times. If you're on a team - NOBODY is above sticking up for their teammates. That doesn't mean Pavel and Nick should be getting into frequent scraps - they shouldn't. But they should be ready to drop 'em should the need arrise. Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr did not think that their precious hands were too valuable to risk when the situation warranted. Our last captain (the greatest ever, might I add) was not afraid to scrap, and was always sticking his nose in danger's way. That's what great leaders and great teammates do. Pav and Nick are great players - but I'm unconvinced that they are great teammates or great men. Maybe they're just on a very tight leash and they're not allowed to stick up for their teammates.....but I don't know that for sure. Like I said, I'm unconvinced.

[egroen 384]

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...dstrom_pav.html

Red Wings' Nicklas Lidstrom, Pavel Datsyuk upset about having to sit out a game

by Ansar Khan

Monday January 26, 2009, 3:54 PM

Update from Monday's practice: Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom and center Pavel Datsyuk both said they were disappointed in the NHL's decision to force them to sit out Tuesday's game in Columbus for withdrawing from the All-Star game due to injuries and not showing up in Montreal for the off-ice activities.

The Wings said, contrary to reports, there is no appeal process. It's cut and dry. They will not play tonorrow. Technically, it's not a suspension, as they will be paid. It's simply the NHL enforcing an understanding it and the league's general managers agreed to last February.

Lidstrom, who's been battling tentinitis in his right elbow for some time, said he didn't find out until Friday that he could have avoided the ban if he would have showed in Montreal for the off-ice part of it. But he said it didn't matter. He still wouldn't have showed up because he needed to stay home and get treatment for his elbow.

Datsyuk said he wasn't aware this loophole either -- that's how Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby avoided a one-game ban. Datsyuk said he's not sure if his strained hip flexor would have allowed him to play Tuesday anyway.

Thank you so much for posting that.

[lets go pavel 2]

Frankly - I think I have a pretty good idea what kind of men they are after watching them witness their teamates getting roughed up on more than one occasion without sticking up for them. It makes me skeptical of them in all things, and it probably shouldn't.

What, exactly, do you want them to do? If they are on the ice during a scrum, they are involved. I have a rather vivid memory of Pavel on top of a certain Gary Roberts during the finals last year. Short of dropping the gloves, I'm not sure what you want them to do that they don't already do.

If you don't mind my asking, which of our players are you not skeptical of? Which ones meet you requirements for toughness and sticking up for teammates?

[Broken 16 381]

Interesting....

Not really. We all pretty much knew this anyway.

[esteef 2,679]

Not really. We all pretty much knew this anyway.

17 pages of this thread begs to differ.

[Electrophile 3,554]

I've said it here a million times. If you're on a team - NOBODY is above sticking up for their teammates. That doesn't mean Pavel and Nick should be getting into frequent scraps - they shouldn't. But they should be ready to drop 'em should the need arrise. Mario Lemieux and Bobby Orr did not think that their precious hands were too valuable to risk when the situation warranted. Our last captain (the greatest ever, might I add) was not afraid to scrap, and was always sticking his nose in danger's way. That's what great leaders and great teammates do. Pav and Nick are great players - but I'm unconvinced that they are great teammates or great men. Maybe they're just on a very tight leash and they're not allowed to stick up for their teammates.....but I don't know that for sure. Like I said, I'm unconvinced.

That's right. Nick and Pav are just degenerate assholes who don't give two s***s about their teammates, hence why you don't see either of them getting into frequent fights every time someone so much as glances at someone incorrectly. Also, they're s***ty guys! I hear they beat their wives and force their children to drink bleach.

Trade these sacks of crap immediately, we can clearly do better. We need GREAT men on our team, not these assholes.

Edited January 26, 2009 by Electrophile