Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[Konnan511 1,736]

False. This "rule" is not in the CBA or players' contracts. It is a policy Bettman dreamed up and presented to the GMs in February of last year, after 7 All Stars gave various excuses for not playing. Including Brodeur and Luongo for "family reasons".

In the clip I posted earlier, Colin Campbell states twice the rule, as presented last February, was that a player had to PLAY in the all star game, or miss a game in order to validate the injury.

Standard Players Contract state that "The player agrees to give his services to play hockey in all NHL games, all star games, International hockey games, and exhibition games to the best of his ability under direction of the Club in accordance with the provisions hereof"

D) To cooperate with the Club and participate in any all reasonable promotional activites which will in the opinion of the Club, promote the wellfare of the Club and to cooperate in the promotion of the league and professional hockey generally.

a player who refuses to play or attend the promotional events would be in violation of some portion of the SPC

It's in the CBA

plus...

NHLPA executive director Paul Kelly said he expects the league to discipline the two players by having them sit out Tuesday against Columbus.

"Yeah, they have the ability to do and they have done it," Kelly said. "They're trying to strike the balance because their view is if you can't skate for a legitimate reason, then you ought to come and participate in all of the events because it's important for the sport."

And in a recent article...

Campbell said the league's general managers agreed last February that a player who misses the all-star game must sit out the regular season game just before or just after it to demonstrate that he is really injured.

He said commissioner Gary Bettman pushed for the rule because too many players were skipping the all-star game without good reason in recent years.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Konnan511

[edicius 3,269]

Last season, Kelly said, Martin Brodeur sat out the first game after the break because he missed the All-Star game in Atlanta. As long as the players are still paid, Kelly said, the disciplinary action is allowed.

Which is a flat-out lie from Kelly. Brodeur was in net for the Devils for the game immediately before the All-Star break and the game immediately after. It's a matter of public record. Makes me wonder if he got talking points from Bettman or something, because an easily-verifiable lie like that makes him look like an idiot.

[Konnan511 1,736]

Which is a flat-out lie from Kelly. Brodeur was in net for the Devils for the game immediately before the All-Star break and the game immediately after. It's a matter of public record. Makes me wonder if he got talking points from Bettman or something, because an easily-verifiable lie like that makes him look like an idiot.

Yah, apparently that was taken from a site that translated what he said which is why i got rid of that part because it isn't true. So disregard that one sentence, everything else I posted is a lot more important anyways. People are bitching that this is unfair and stuff, but it's in the CBA and it is something EVERY gm in the league agreed on last year. So what's the big deal? They could have gone and participated in the promotional aspect of the AS festivities, regardless of health, unless noted by the team doctors.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I'm trying to understand the Crosby conspiracy here.. but after however-many pages, I'm not getting it.

As far as my knowledge goes, Crosby was told that he had to at least show up in order to avoid suspension. And he did. Datyuk & Lidstrom didn't.. so they got suspended.

I'm obviously missing a large chunk of the puzzle, because it seems perfectly logical to me.

[Icteria virens 11]

Campbell said the league's general managers agreed last February that a player who misses the all-star game must sit out the regular season game just before or just after it to demonstrate that he is really injured.

He said commissioner Gary Bettman pushed for the rule because too many players were skipping the all-star game without good reason in recent years.

again, key word there being GAME, Cindy isn't playing in the game either so he should be suspended. After he had a personal phone call with buttman they made up a new rule on Friday night that stated if Crysby signs a few autographs all will be forgotten, that's the difference and the sticking point.

[esteef 2,679]

Standard Players Contract state that "The player agrees to give his services to play hockey in all NHL games, all star games, International hockey games, and exhibition games to the best of his ability under direction of the Club in accordance with the provisions hereof"

D) To cooperate with the Club and participate in any all reasonable promotional activites which will in the opinion of the Club, promote the wellfare of the Club and to cooperate in the promotion of the league and professional hockey generally.

a player who refuses to play or attend the promotional events would be in violation of some portion of the SPC

It's in the CBA

plus...

NHLPA executive director Paul Kelly said he expects the league to discipline the two players by having them sit out Tuesday against Columbus.

"Yeah, they have the ability to do and they have done it," Kelly said. "They're trying to strike the balance because their view is if you can't skate for a legitimate reason, then you ought to come and participate in all of the events because it's important for the sport."

And in a recent article...

Campbell said the league's general managers agreed last February that a player who misses the all-star game must sit out the regular season game just before or just after it to demonstrate that he is really injured.

He said commissioner Gary Bettman pushed for the rule because too many players were skipping the all-star game without good reason in recent years.

The "Club" told them not to go. They cooperated. End of story.

esteef

Edited January 25, 2009 by esteef

[esteef 2,679]

I'm trying to understand the Crosby conspiracy here.. but after however-many pages, I'm not getting it.

As far as my knowledge goes, Crosby was told that he had to at least show up in order to avoid suspension. And he did. Datyuk & Lidstrom didn't.. so they got suspended.

I'm obviously missing a large chunk of the puzzle, because it seems perfectly logical to me.

The bolded part came way late for anyone else (Lids and Dats) to be able to act on. Not part of the original rule basically.

esteef

[HockeytownRN 0]

Visit My Website

Ok, so it's not my website but I that's the only way I could figure it out. lol

Read the above link. I do NOT think it is ok for a Captain of a team, who knowingly got exempted from the suspension over a conversation taking place the day before the ASG, to insinuate that Lids and Dats knew about this exemption and just failed to show up. He also insinuates that they are not hurt. I think it is pathetic for him to do this, especially because he is a Captain and should know better. He is letting the media crucify them when he knows the facts. Read the link about and tell me that is not wrong. Yzerman and Lidstrom would never have done something like this, and to question Lidstrom's contribution to the NHL just puts the last nail in the coffin.

Broken, answer your phone......Crosby is calling and wants to help you get your knickers out of a bunch.

Edited January 25, 2009 by HockeytownRN

[Broken 16 381]

Case in point. Mindless ramblings of a "OMG Leave Crosby Alone" slappy. No one here has said anything was Crosby's "fault". He is merely, (yet again), the recipient of preferential treatment from the league. But please, continue, because I'm sure the whole point of this 20 something page thread was simply to take shots at Crosby. Grow up man.

esteef

Define "grow up"... Because if growing up entails pissing and moaning non-stop about how unfair life is with Crosby in it, then I'll pass.

The dude is 21 years old and is not only the figurehead for his Conference winning team, but the figurehead for the ENTIRE league. The guy has his face thrust in the camera over every little thing and is always expected to say the PERFECT thing at all times. I'm not a big fan of the guy personally. I think he is vastly overrrated in a lot of facets as well. But he is human and does a lot of things for kids and the community at large. He volunteers a lot of his time (oh, thats right... he's a loser that lives in Mario's basement... ) and is a WILLING spokeperson.

It has nothing to do with being a Crosby slappy. I've been going to Wings games since they were playing in the Olympia. I was at the Barn in 79 when they played their last game there.

The Wings decided to pass on the All-Star game (I know, I know... they're injured), they got suspended... but WAIT!... Crosby was interviewed and didn't say the things I wanted EXACTLY the way I wanted him to. Not only that... he made an arrangement with Bettman to avoid suspension. Evil incarnet.

Crosby did the right thing... said the right things, at the right time (I understand that he didn't take a bullet for Lidstrom so that makes him an *******... I get it). This constant misguided hatred towards Crosby makes a lot of people look really, really petty.

I've been labeled a troll, a Crosby slappy and a few other things I don't care to mention. But here's my total take on the situation:

1) The All-Star Game is a joke.

2) Bettman is handling the All-Star game poorly

3) Datsyuk is hurt. Lidstrom is hurting, but not injured.

4) Lidstrom probably should have made the trip, Datsyuk... probably not.

5) Neither deserve suspension (I think a fine would have been more appropriate), but they are... no big deal.

6) Lidstrom and Datsyuk are getting bum raps because Kenny Holland decided not to 'disturb' (I still don't really get this... but ok) them with an option for the All-Star game, they'll recover.

7) Crosby was more concerned about his reputation and possible retribution from the league for not participating. So he called Bettman to try and work it out. And it worked. I don't see where the preferential treatment comes in. He still had to be there all weekend.

8) When asked about the suspensions, Crosby did come off a little smarmy. Gee, I wonder why? He hates the Wings man... HATES THEM. We spanked his ass in the SCF's... badly. We stole his best winger and a great back-up goaltender. Now, they are struggling. Honestly, he could have said: "I'm glad they got suspended, they're jerks" and I would have understood.

9) Lidstrom and Datsyuk avoid the clusterf*** that is the ASG. Get much needed rest and a reset for the second half. A couple of young guys will more ice time for a game. Oh yea... and we get to invent new reasons to hate Crosby! Rejoice!!

Edited January 25, 2009 by Broken 16

[Konnan511 1,736]

The "Club" told them not to go. They cooperated. End of story.

esteef

A player who sits out of an all-star game due to injury must sit out the game before or after the all-star game. They are being made to sit out the game after the all-star game. End of Story.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

The bolded part came way late for anyone else (Lids and Dats) to be able to act on. Not part of the original rule basically.

esteef

Even so, if they offered the newly revised rule to Lidstrom & Datsyuk.. I don't see the problem?

I think everyone knows that Bettman is doing everything he can to make Crosby the face of the NHL. He chose to amend the rule.. but it's not like he didn't apply it to other players and JUST Crosby.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

I'm trying to understand the Crosby conspiracy here.. but after however-many pages, I'm not getting it.

As far as my knowledge goes, Crosby was told that he had to at least show up in order to avoid suspension. And he did. Datyuk & Lidstrom didn't.. so they got suspended.

I'm obviously missing a large chunk of the puzzle, because it seems perfectly logical to me.

BRAVO!

You see, esteef and the others are simply grasping at straws. The core issue here is that Crosby is getting out of the suspension and Dats/Lids aren't, so Wings fans are miffed and believe this must be another clear case of Crosby preferential treatment. I mean, it just has to be. There's no other logical explanation.

You tell LGW haters that Lids/Dats could've phoned the commish to ask/talk about ways around it. But LGW haters will grasp at straws b/c they know the exact itinerary, exact schedule of Lids/Dats. They know 100% that Dats was on a flight to Russia and Lids was being held in Guantanamo so it was too late for them to ever phone the commish like Crosby did.

People are focusing on "when Crosby called the rule got changed". Well so what. If Lids had called the rule would've been explained the same to him, the options the same to him. Given the FACT the Wings players new well before the consequences of not going, they had days upon days to phone the commish and talk it out. But haters can't admit that b/c it would make their conspiracy theory fall flat on its ass.

Our guys new the rule and didn't bother to call and find a way around it. They had ample time to do so. Crosby new the rule and called up to figure out if there was a way around it. The commish gave him one. Sure, don't play in the ASG, but still get your ass on a flight and participate in the full weekend, less the game. So Crosby still has to go through all the hassle of the weekend except for the game. And he's hurt people! They're acting like Bettman is allowing him to sit on his can at home this weekend and do nothing.

Sour grapes from LGWers who are fixated on Crosby.

[esteef 2,679]

A player who sits out of an all-star game due to injury must sit out the game before or after the all-star game. They are being made to sit out the game after the all-star game. End of Story.

Excellent. No one is contesting why they are sitting out.

esteef

[lets go pavel 2]

And in a recent article...

Campbell said the league's general managers agreed last February that a player who misses the all-star game must sit out the regular season game just before or just after it to demonstrate that he is really injured.

He said commissioner Gary Bettman pushed for the rule because too many players were skipping the all-star game without good reason in recent years.

Sooooo once again ... why does Crosby not have to sit out?

The CBA has been in place for what, 3-4 years now? Never in that time, until now, has an injured player who is not playing been expected to attend. That is the precedent that had been in place ... until Friday.

At the GM meeting last year they agreed that players have to miss a game if they don't play. Noone is arguing otherwise. The issue everyone is arguing with is that THE RULE CHANGED ON FRIDAY. Now Datsyuk and Lidstrom are being suspended for not attending, something they didn't know they had to do because that was not the precedent that had been set.

[esteef 2,679]

Even so, if they offered the newly revised rule to Lidstrom & Datsyuk.. I don't see the problem?

I think everyone knows that Bettman is doing everything he can to make Crosby the face of the NHL. He chose to amend the rule.. but it's not like he didn't apply it to other players and JUST Crosby.

They didn't. Lids and Dats, if they even know now, learned it through the media as we did. There was no blanket call to all teams advising them of the rule "revision".

esteef

[esteef 2,679]

BRAVO!

You see, esteef and the others are simply grasping at straws. The core issue here is that Crosby is getting out of the suspension and Dats/Lids aren't, so Wings fans are miffed and believe this must be another clear case of Crosby preferential treatment. I mean, it just has to be. There's no other logical explanation.

You tell LGW haters that Lids/Dats could've phoned the commish to ask/talk about ways around it. But LGW haters will grasp at straws b/c they know the exact itinerary, exact schedule of Lids/Dats. They know 100% that Dats was on a flight to Russia and Lids was being held in Guantanamo so it was too late for them to ever phone the commish like Crosby did.

People are focusing on "when Crosby called the rule got changed". Well so what. If Lids had called the rule would've been explained the same to him, the options the same to him. Given the FACT the Wings players new well before the consequences of not going, they had days upon days to phone the commish and talk it out. But haters can't admit that b/c it would make their conspiracy theory fall flat on its ass.

Our guys new the rule and didn't bother to call and find a way around it. They had ample time to do so. Crosby new the rule and called up to figure out if there was a way around it. The commish gave him one. Sure, don't play in the ASG, but still get your ass on a flight and participate in the full weekend, less the game. So Crosby still has to go through all the hassle of the weekend except for the game. And he's hurt people! They're acting like Bettman is allowing him to sit on his can at home this weekend and do nothing.

Sour grapes from LGWers who are fixated on Crosby.

It's nice to see we agree then.

esteef

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

The bolded part came way late for anyone else (Lids and Dats) to be able to act on. Not part of the original rule basically.

esteef

A prime example of grasping at straws.

You don't know what Lids/Dats were doing and unless you do, to claim it was too late for them to act at all is pure speculative bulls***.

Be damned the fact the Wings knew all along what the punishment would be and never bother to so much as pick up a phone.

Because all people when told something they don't want to hear simply go along with whatever they're told and don't bother to at least check in and see if there's a way to find a middle ground.

Crosby took the time to call and figure out an amenable solution. Lids/Dats did not. They had the time, they chose not to. I don't blame them. I don't blame Crosby. I think the rule is stupid. I think it's even more stupid to think it's preferential treatment though. People see what they want to see, reason be damned.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

They didn't. Lids and Dats, if they even know now, learned it through the media as we did. There was no blanket call to all teams advising them of the rule "revision".

esteef

This all seems a bit confusing to me.. so bear with me.

So Bettman made this revision and didn't call the organizations with players in the ASG to inform them of it. But, when this all hit headline news - why couldn't Holland or someone else call up Bettman or somebody and ask if this revision they're reading about also applies to Lidstrom & Datsyuk? Sure, it's an inconvenience that we weren't told - and it sort of grinds my gears considering we pulled out awhile ago... but Crosby was the only one who brought the issue to Bettman's attention and Bettman took care of it accordingly.

I don't think it's Bettman's job to chase our players around and try to make their lives easier. I think it's the player's job to bring up and issue and ask for it to be revised.

[lets go pavel 2]

BRAVO!

You see, esteef and the others are simply grasping at straws. The core issue here is that Crosby is getting out of the suspension and Dats/Lids aren't, so Wings fans are miffed and believe this must be another clear case of Crosby preferential treatment. I mean, it just has to be. There's no other logical explanation.

You tell LGW haters that Lids/Dats could've phoned the commish to ask/talk about ways around it. But LGW haters will grasp at straws b/c they know the exact itinerary, exact schedule of Lids/Dats. They know 100% that Dats was on a flight to Russia and Lids was being held in Guantanamo so it was too late for them to ever phone the commish like Crosby did.

People are focusing on "when Crosby called the rule got changed". Well so what. If Lids had called the rule would've been explained the same to him, the options the same to him. Given the FACT the Wings players new well before the consequences of not going, they had days upon days to phone the commish and talk it out. But haters can't admit that b/c it would make their conspiracy theory fall flat on its ass.

Our guys new the rule and didn't bother to call and find a way around it. They had ample time to do so. Crosby new the rule and called up to figure out if there was a way around it. The commish gave him one. Sure, don't play in the ASG, but still get your ass on a flight and participate in the full weekend, less the game. So Crosby still has to go through all the hassle of the weekend except for the game. And he's hurt people! They're acting like Bettman is allowing him to sit on his can at home this weekend and do nothing.

Sour grapes from LGWers who are fixated on Crosby.

GS&T, I don't have a problem with Crosby and I don't have a problem with the suspensions, as long as they are being suspended "in order to prove they are injured", which is the original intent of the rule. What I take issue with, and what I have yet to hear an answer to, is that the league, by not suspending Crosby since he attended the events, has changed the crime that the punishment is supposed to be for. Now they are being suspended for not attending, even though that was not, to their knowledge, the expectation of injured players. This tarnishes their image, makes it appear to some that they don't respect the game or the ASG, etc. etc., and I don't believe that is fair.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

It's nice to see we agree then.

esteef

Yeah, and if Lids or Dats had called up they'd have gotten the same treatment. Therefore the preferential goes right out the window.

Oh wait, unless you're telling me the commish would've told them no and only said yes to Crosby.

I can see it now, headline reads "Ken Holland miffed, commish lets Crosby attend event and get out of suspension, doesn't allow Lidstrom and Datsyuk the same courtesy". Yeah, i'm sure the commish would just love that headline.

It isn't preferential treatment if everybody gets it. Too bad Lids/Dats didn't bother to make a phone call, huh. Oh well.

[esteef 2,679]

Sooooo once again ... why does Crosby not have to sit out?

The CBA has been in place for what, 3-4 years now? Never in that time, until now, has an injured player who is not playing been expected to attend. That is the precedent that had been in place ... until Friday.

At the GM meeting last year they agreed that players have to miss a game if they don't play. Noone is arguing otherwise. The issue everyone is arguing with is that THE RULE CHANGED ON FRIDAY. Now Datsyuk and Lidstrom are being suspended for not attending, something they didn't know they had to do because that was not the precedent that had been set.

They knew of the new rule and were prepared to sit on Tuesday, the issue is the rule change/clarification that came late allowing "a certain player" to avoid the sit, thus making Lids and Dats look like bigger a-holes than they already are, apparently.

esteef

Edited January 25, 2009 by esteef

[Ms_Hockey 0]

BRAVO!

You see, esteef and the others are simply grasping at straws. The core issue here is that Crosby is getting out of the suspension and Dats/Lids aren't, so Wings fans are miffed and believe this must be another clear case of Crosby preferential treatment. I mean, it just has to be. There's no other logical explanation.

You tell LGW haters that Lids/Dats could've phoned the commish to ask/talk about ways around it. But LGW haters will grasp at straws b/c they know the exact itinerary, exact schedule of Lids/Dats. They know 100% that Dats was on a flight to Russia and Lids was being held in Guantanamo so it was too late for them to ever phone the commish like Crosby did.

People are focusing on "when Crosby called the rule got changed". Well so what. If Lids had called the rule would've been explained the same to him, the options the same to him. Given the FACT the Wings players new well before the consequences of not going, they had days upon days to phone the commish and talk it out. But haters can't admit that b/c it would make their conspiracy theory fall flat on its ass.

Our guys new the rule and didn't bother to call and find a way around it. They had ample time to do so. Crosby new the rule and called up to figure out if there was a way around it. The commish gave him one. Sure, don't play in the ASG, but still get your ass on a flight and participate in the full weekend, less the game. So Crosby still has to go through all the hassle of the weekend except for the game. And he's hurt people! They're acting like Bettman is allowing him to sit on his can at home this weekend and do nothing.

Sour grapes from LGWers who are fixated on Crosby.

I can see why they're angry, though. It's the principle of the fact that Datsyuk could be on a plane to Russia and we'd have no idea that he could've skipped out on this. It's the inconvenience that's irritating.

But I think people are assuming it's Bettman's job to bring the issue up to the player.

If I were to mess up at Uni, I don't expect the dean of students to come to me to work out my problems. I would have to go to him.

[esteef 2,679]

A prime example of grasping at straws.

You don't know what Lids/Dats were doing and unless you do, to claim it was too late for them to act at all is pure speculative bulls***.

Be damned the fact the Wings knew all along what the punishment would be and never bother to so much as pick up a phone.

Because all people when told something they don't want to hear simply go along with whatever they're told and don't bother to at least check in and see if there's a way to find a middle ground.

Crosby took the time to call and figure out an amenable solution. Lids/Dats did not. They had the time, they chose not to. I don't blame them. I don't blame Crosby. I think the rule is stupid. I think it's even more stupid to think it's preferential treatment though. People see what they want to see, reason be damned.

The rule should never have been changed, especially if it will potentially throw two of the most elite, and respected players unnecessarily under the bus. But I wouldn't expect Bettman to have enough f***in' foresight to think 5 minutes ahead of his decisions.

I don't blame Crosby either.

esteef

Edited January 25, 2009 by esteef

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

GS&T, I don't have a problem with Crosby and I don't have a problem with the suspensions, as long as they are being suspended "in order to prove they are injured", which is the original intent of the rule. What I take issue with, and what I have yet to hear an answer to, is that the league, by not suspending Crosby since he attended the events, has changed the crime that the punishment is supposed to be for. Now they are being suspended for not attending, even though that was not, to their knowledge, the expectation of injured players. This tarnishes their image, makes it appear to some that they don't respect the game or the ASG, etc. etc., and I don't believe that is fair.

I have no beef with anybody who says Bettman changed the ruling. He did change it. And what a clusterf*** he caused by it. More proof Bettman's a tool.

My beef is the cockamamie belief that only Crosby could've gotten the sweet, cherry deal from Bettman that he did.

Like Bettman would've allowed it to be known he let Crosby off the hook but not Lids had Lids called and asked for some way to work it out. He would've let any of the players have the same deal if they had asked for it.

So the major bone I see here is Wings fans' argument is, "well the rule said this, so the Wings followed the rule because they're angels from heaven".

So you mean to tell me that as human beings when somebody confronts us with something we disagree with or don't like, you don't bother checking with the other party to see if there's a way around the situation?

Anybody ever been late making a payment on their credit card or phone bill and gotten a late fee? You know you're going to get a late fee. Ever called to see if you could get it waved do to whatever circumstances? I dunno, I guess maybe i'm the only person that doesn't take everything I read at face value and actually take the time to see if I can work something out when confronted with a situation I don't agree with. What a novel idea.

[esteef 2,679]

I can see why they're angry, though. It's the principle of the fact that Datsyuk could be on a plane to Russia and we'd have no idea that he could've skipped out on this. It's the inconvenience that's irritating.

Babcock has already said in the media he didn't know where they were. This isn't daycare where they all walk around with their wrists tied together.

esteef