Lidstrom & Datsyuk suspended for skipping ASG

[55fan 5,133]

Hehe... never thought of that. That IS messed up.

YES!!!!! Someone understands what I've been protesting!

I was beginning to be afraid that it was just me and egroen (who said it in another thread so well that I almost made it my sig).

Allow me to buy you beer (don't drink it in RL, but hey, it's the internet!) :beerbuddy:

Oh, and Young Guns 1340, would you believe that it was mentioned by a friend of mine in another thread that she was on a Blackhawks board and they're siding with us? What are the odds of that?

Edited January 27, 2009 by 55fan

[Guest micah]

Micah,

I can think of exactly one occassion of Steve Yzerman actually getting into a fight, and it did not exactly end well for him. Yzerman also had Probert, Kocur and later McCarty out there to have his back. How many more fights do you think Yzerman has over Lidstrom (who has all of one)? Yes, I have seen Yzerman push and shove during a scrum, but I have also seen Datsyuk do the same. I think Yzerman was twice the leader of someone like Messier, but come on, Messier (or Wendel Clark) would tear him apart in two seconds in a fight.

If your idea of leadership and toughness hinges on someone who will "stick up for teamates" you really need to drop Yzerman from your list of respected leaders. The Red Wings employed a steady line of enforcers to "stick up for Yzerman"... let's not kid ourselves here.

Oh, a new-ish Wings fan? I see. Actually, Yzerman got into a fight or two just about every year as a young Wing, as he aged it tappered off. Probably has 10-15 under his belt.

His job was not to fight and he didn't fight a lot - but he was willing. Both Lids and Pavel let themselves and their teammates get pushed around. Yzerman got in there (especially as a youngster) and stirred the pot. While it's true that a guy like Yzerman could play bigger because of his teammates, I think that kind of fearless attitude also motivates the other players to adopt a "not going to take any crap" arttitude. To me, you can't be a great captain (or alternate) if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and your teammates. Guts are a key part of leadership.

Curiously, in the only Lidstrom fight that I can remember, it was Yzerman who saved him from being beaten even worse than he was. I don't ever remember Nik doing the same for a teammate. Do you?

[esteef 2,679]

Or maybe I'm grasping to prove that I'm very disappointed that the Wings couldn't use their enormous amount of efficiency to get ONE GUY to the ASG with, at least, 2 days notice? That straw?

This is the only place I think you have footing, and I agree. The Wings knew early enough that they weren't planning on sending Dats and Lids that they should've provided alternates even if it meant cancelling someone's plans. The decisions on the two injuries with regard to sitting out the ASG probably came in enough time to assign someone.

Toad!

esteef

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Now this shows the kind of boss you want to work for...and it shows why players would do anything to either join this organization or stay with it.

Bravo, Mr. Holland. Bravo.

Very well said.

Ken Holland makes you proud to be a Red Wings fan. He is a champion.

[Jersey Wing 1,521]

I've got tickets (lower bowl) to the Devils and Penguins game this upcoming Friday night. I'm gonna TRY to get a sign in (and the Devils seem pretty lenient when it comes to home made signs) down at ice level for warm up with the words #87 GARY'S LIL BUTT KISSER

Edited January 27, 2009 by Jersey Wing

[Electrophile 3,554]

Oh, a new-ish Wings fan? I see. Actually, Yzerman got into a fight or two just about every year as a young Wing, as he aged it tappered off. Probably has 10-15 under his belt.

His job was not to fight and he didn't fight a lot - but he was willing. Both Lids and Pavel let themselves and their teammates get pushed around. Yzerman got in there (especially as a youngster) and stirred the pot. While it's true that a guy like Yzerman could play bigger because of his teammates, I think that kind of fearless attitude also motivates the other players to adopt a "not going to take any crap" arttitude. To me, you can't be a great captain (or alternate) if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and your teammates. Guts are a key part of leadership.

Curiously, in the only Lidstrom fight that I can remember, it was Yzerman who saved him from being beaten even worse than he was. I don't ever remember Nik doing the same for a teammate. Do you?

So strip them of their letters, give them to other players and quit whining. God, I'm so sorry you've had to suffer through the clearly inept captaincy of one Mr. ***** Pants Lidstrom. I guess the team was just high that day when they decided to give the C to him after Steve retired.

No really, what the hell is the matter with you?

[egroen 384]

Oh, a new-ish Wings fan? I see. Actually, Yzerman got into a fight or two just about every year as a young Wing, as he aged it tappered off. Probably has 10-15 under his belt.

His job was not to fight and he didn't fight a lot - but he was willing. Both Lids and Pavel let themselves and their teammates get pushed around. Yzerman got in there (especially as a youngster) and stirred the pot. While it's true that a guy like Yzerman could play bigger because of his teammates, I think that kind of fearless attitude also motivates the other players to adopt a "not going to take any crap" arttitude. To me, you can't be a great captain (or alternate) if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and your teammates. Guts are a key part of leadership.

Curiously, in the only Lidstrom fight that I can remember, it was Yzerman who saved him from being beaten even worse than he was. I don't ever remember Nik doing the same for a teammate. Do you?

Probert and Kocur, and quite a few others, were there to enforce for Yzerman. Who needed to be there to enforce for Wendel Clark and Messier... since that is who you were comparing Yzerman to?

Maybe if Lidstrom or Datsyuk had the most feared enforcer in league history shadowing them around, they might play a little more "fearlessly" as well? Just maybe?

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Oh, a new-ish Wings fan? I see. Actually, Yzerman got into a fight or two just about every year as a young Wing, as he aged it tappered off. Probably has 10-15 under his belt.

His job was not to fight and he didn't fight a lot - but he was willing. Both Lids and Pavel let themselves and their teammates get pushed around. Yzerman got in there (especially as a youngster) and stirred the pot. While it's true that a guy like Yzerman could play bigger because of his teammates, I think that kind of fearless attitude also motivates the other players to adopt a "not going to take any crap" arttitude. To me, you can't be a great captain (or alternate) if you're not willing to stand up for yourself and your teammates. Guts are a key part of leadership.

Curiously, in the only Lidstrom fight that I can remember, it was Yzerman who saved him from being beaten even worse than he was. I don't ever remember Nik doing the same for a teammate. Do you?

You don't think Nick is a great captain? He leads by example. It says something that the best player on the team (IMO, the entire NHL) shows up to play EVERY night. Other players respond when they see a player as talented as Nick willing to sacrifice everything for the ultimate goal of winning championships. Nick doesn't have or need that "not taking any crap" attitude. He works his ass off on the ice and I am willing to bet his teammates take notice and want to go out and duplicate that work ethic. You want to single out Nick and Pavel for not "fighting" for teammates, but who exactly on the current Red Wings roster goes out and fights anyways?

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Time served. It's not really a suspension. The whole point of making them sit a game is to help ensure that there is an actual injury and that players aren't faking (or exaggerating) injuries to avoid the ASG.

That whole theory falls apart when one considers the time frame. The All-Star break was 7 days long for the Wings. 7 days is actually a non-trivial time frame for healing quite a few different types of hockey injuries- especially when you catch it early (the longer you play hurt or partially hurt the worse the damage often is).

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

It's all Bettman's fault. Everything Crosby does is whiny and wrong. Everyone hates the Wings and is therefore unfairly trashing Lidstrom and Datsyuk. The Red Wings can do no wrong.

did I miss anything?

[Broken 16 381]

That whole theory falls apart when one considers the time frame. The All-Star break was 7 days long for the Wings. 7 days is actually a non-trivial time frame for healing quite a few different types of hockey injuries- especially when you catch it early (the longer you play hurt or partially hurt the worse the damage often is).

If Bettman took as much time thinking about how to make the ASG more attractive to players as he does making up/dancing around stupid rules, there would be no issue.

Maybe restructure it to have some kind of meaning. Like maybe use the results to determine which Conference gets the Winter Classic the following season. Or something.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Broken 16

[dicksmack 33]

It's all Bettman's fault. Everything Crosby does is whiny and wrong. Everyone hates the Wings and is therefore unfairly trashing Lidstrom and Datsyuk. The Red Wings can do no wrong.

did I miss anything?

Yes.

All criticism is a hate fest and unfair.

Edited January 27, 2009 by dicksmack

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Doesn't he specifically mentioned that he's not even going to order them to go meet the media and stand around?

It doesn't matter if they're too hrut to do that, it's the principle of the thing now. Holland and Illitch have to back the team and protect them from the NHL. It's always said when a premier franchise has to stand up to the parent league.

I love hwo classy our organization is. Even when we're flipping the bird to the league it's never over the top.

Good for Kenny to stand up for his guys, but whats with the thread title? There is no exemption by Crosby - he made the trip to Montreal and will be taking part in all off ice activities, thus preventing the one game suspension.

Didn't you hear? Crosby is enemy #1 on these boards just because the media likes to cover him and not lids/dats bettman likes him better... haha ^^ I like how people think this rule was placed by bettman just today... all the gms where warned about this at the beginning of the year but people like to ignore that fact. ^^ And did they miss the game before the all star game?? NO so if they dont attend they have to miss the game after it.. it is a very simple concept but people have a hard time grasping it

I know it's Sidney Crosby we're talking about here and he's the devil and the worst thing to ever happen to the game of hockey, but I'm still not following how it's an exception.

He was planning on only going Saturday night for the Young Stars Game and Skills competition. Then he was informed by Bettman of the rule, so he changed his plans and is attending the whole weekend. The only thing to really make fun of here is that is sounds like Bettman called Crosby personally to inform him of the rule change and did not with Lids or Datsyuk, which honestly if I were them I would prefer he don't call me. But Bettman or someone from the league obviously informed Holland. Not to mention as GM Holland should be aware of this rule since it was voted on a year ago.

But that's not an exception. That's just Crosby being the NHL poster boy. He changed his plans and is going for the full weekend, which is exactly what the league asked of Dats and Lidstrom.

I think it's also interesting that Crosby, and I'm guessing Lidstrom and Datsyuk, weren't really aware of this rule change. The GM's agreed to it a year ago, but didn't give their players a heads up? Or I guess they didn't think it would actually be enforced. According to Hockey News, most players were unaware the rule even existed.

It's nice of Holland to stick up for his players this year. I hope he wasn't one of the GM's to agree to it last year.

All in all this was handled extremely poorly by Bettman (shocking, I know). But there's no Crosby exception here. If Lidstrom and Datsyuk showed up too, they'd be playing on Tuesday. It was theirs and Holland's choice.

I'd have to see a link to believe that about the rule. But even if it's true, how is that an exception for Crosby? It helps Dats and Lidstrom out too because they would not have to play the game, yet could still attend the event and be eligible to play their next game.

This rule was agreed upon last February. When Lidstrom and Datsyuk decided not to go, that should have put up a red flag to someone in Wings management, and they should have looked into the implications of their players not attending.

It's unfortunate, but I don't see an exception here.

what is the timeline here? How Crosby notified in advance? Even if Bettman had called Crosby earlier and not the Wing's players, as soon as he changed plans as the NHL poster boy (which you guys constantly ***** about) it was all over the media. Not exactly a secret.

As I've said, the rule was made in February. That's Holland and the Red Wings' managements responsibility to have their players informed about it. Not Bettmans.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bettman's a dick and once again went about this in an obnoxious way. But that's how the rule is. If Lidstrom and Datsyuk really didn't know about it, that's Holland's fault. Maybe they just decided to roll the dice thinking the NHL wouldn't enforce it.

Perhttp://www.letsgowings.com/forums/index.php?act=post&do=new_post&f=1sonally I'd rather they take the game off, and make Bettman look like a douchebag by cracking down on two of the league's (i hate this word but can't think of a better one) "classiest" players. It's a win-win.

All of your questions have been answered. Thanks M-live!

Update from Monday's practice: Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom and center Pavel Datsyuk both said they were disappointed in the NHL's decision to force them to sit out Tuesday's game in Columbus for withdrawing from the All-Star game due to injuries and not showing up in Montreal for the off-ice activities.

The Wings said, contrary to reports, there is no appeal process. It's cut and dry. They will not play tonorrow. Technically, it's not a suspension, as they will be paid. It's simply the NHL enforcing an understanding it and the league's general managers agreed to last February, that a player must miss either the game preceding or following the All-Star game if he elects not to play in the All-Star game.

Lidstrom, who's been battling tentinitis in his right elbow for some time, said he didn't find out until Friday that he could have avoided the ban if he would have showed in Montreal for the off-ice part of it. But he said it didn't matter. He still wouldn't have showed up because he needed to stay home and get treatment for his elbow.

"I knew it would happen, but I decided what's best for the team and myself is to try to heal up, because we're not getting any breaks this long before the end of the season,'' Lidstrom said. "This was the only chance to see if this problem would go away.''

Datsyuk said he wasn't aware this loophole either -- that's how Pittsburgh's Sidney Crosby avoided a one-game ban. Datsyuk said he's not sure if his strained hip flexor would have allowed him to play Tuesday anyway.

Both players practiced Monday, though Datsyuk did not participate in sprint drills.

"I think the players did the right thing to help their team. I support them fully in their decision,'' Wings coach Mike Babcock said.

Eat it everyone who argued against the obvious conclusions myself and other posters were drawing from the facts posted on Friday about the situation. Everyone who argued that the rule was modified for Crosby and that Lidstrom and Datsyuk were not informed until too late was wrong. Some of the posters above are persons I have respect for (Harold) and others aren't quoted but should have this post nailed to their bedroom door (Broken 16- time to man up and admit you were wrong).

Stick by your convictions and if you're right you get to gloat on LGW

[Broken 16 381]

I still don't see how this excuses them from not sending a single representative from the team unless they have a genuine beef with the league.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Broken 16

[Kira 451]

I've got tickets (lower bowl) to the Devils and Penguins game this upcoming Friday night. I'm gonna TRY to get a sign in (and the Devils seem pretty lenient when it comes to home made signs) down at ice level for warm up with the words #87 GARY'S LIL BUTT KISSER

Good man. I like your thinking. Make it big, bright and highly visible. It's the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, if you know what I mean.

[Outsider 42]

If Bettman took as much time thinking about how to make the ASG more attractive to players as he does making up/dancing around stupid rules, there would be no issue.

Maybe restructure it to have some kind of meaning. Like maybe use the results to determine which Conference gets the Winter Classic the following season. Or something.

Too complicated. And too much like putting perfume on a pig. Bettman is not interested in making the ASG, the Game, or the League more attractive to anyone other than the Owners.

Fark the fans. Fark the Players. Fark the Game.

Nothing about our Game will get better until the little crap weasel is gone, and a real Hockey Man is put in his place.

Don't hold your breath waiting for that to happen. The Owners are exceedingly happy with Mr. Buttman, for the very reasons that we, as fans, are UNHAPPY with him.

[HockeytownRN 0]

I still don't see how this excuses them from not sending a single representative from the team unless they have a genuine beef with the league.

::::::::Bangs head on computer screen::::::::::

<sigh> Good post Drake.

[Outsider 42]

I still don't see how this excuses them from not sending a single representative from the team unless they have a genuine beef with the league.

Who's to say that they didn't offer up a couple of alternates?

Rumor has it that the League wanted Zata, Hossa and Rafalski - none of which were available, as they'd all made other plans.

Who's to say that the Wings didn't say "Hey....Hudler would love to go! Or how 'bout Danny Cleary? They've both been awesome for us, both this Season, and last!" only to have the League respond with "Who? No thanks. Nobody outside Detroit knows who those guys are."

[Kira 451]

When the other players found out they were not going to have to go to the game, they all made plans to be with family or friends and enjoy some time off...whether it was going home to be with family that you don't get to see throughout the season (Brad Stuart), spending time with family on a vacation (Homer in Vegas, Maltby in the Carribean), or just staying home to recuperate from injuries (Nick and Pasha).

No one wanted to change their plans at the last minute...and I don't blame them.

[esteef 2,679]

Yes.

All criticism is a hate fest and unfair.

[esteef 2,679]

Haha! I thought there was some new breakthrough in the case! This article has already been posted in another thread.

:hippie: :hat: :smokin:

esteef

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

All of your questions have been answered. Thanks M-live!

Eat it everyone who argued against the obvious conclusions myself and other posters were drawing from the facts posted on Friday about the situation. Everyone who argued that the rule was modified for Crosby and that Lidstrom and Datsyuk were not informed until too late was wrong. Some of the posters above are persons I have respect for (Harold) and others aren't quoted but should have this post nailed to their bedroom door (Broken 16- time to man up and admit you were wrong).

Stick by your convictions and if you're right you get to gloat on LGW

What new information is in that post exactly? you're quoting and highlighting the rule from a local sports site, not any text from the actual rule. I think this article has already been quoted in the existing thread.

Wings GM Ken Holland had conversations with Colin Campbell early in the week regarding the ASG and his players not attending. Lidstrom informed him on Monday about the tendonitis.

This is a rule that Ken Holland and the other GM's agreed to last year. So Holland and his management can find draft picks in the last rounds, can land the biggest UFA in Marian Hossa, can sustain a great franchise even under the cap, but he gets none of the responsibility for this??

He agreed to this rule a year ago. Of course there is no appeal process because it isn't in the CBA. It was basically a gentleman's agreement between the NHL and the GM's that they would enforce this rule with their players. It would've occurred to any poster here at LGW to clarify if a player would have to attend, or would have to play to avoid the suspension.

If the players weren't aware of this rule, or weren't aware that they could just attend the festivities, that's Holland's fault. That's not Bettman's. And them being unaware is no proof that Bettman made some special deal with Crosby. I love it how people think Holland can pull off anything, but then don't think he takes any responsibility for this as GM of the team.

The reality is Holland thought it was a stupid rule, which it is. But it's one he agreed to a f*cking year ago. And his line about not even knowing where Lidstrom and Datsyuk are is total bulls*** too. You don't think he knows where two of his franchise players are every week of the season? or couldn't find out with one phonecall?

The point he was making was that he wasn't going to make that phonecall. He wasn't going to back down. He didn't and now they have to sit a game. If he wanted to play along with Bettman and make the "Crosby exception" I'm sure he could have. But he didn't. Not that big a deal. Not a conspiracy.

This only verifies your case to you because you're once again reading between the lines and making assumptions about what happened.

Edited January 27, 2009 by haroldsnepsts

[rage 24]

Eat it everyone who argued against the obvious conclusions myself and other posters were drawing from the facts posted on Friday about the situation. Everyone who argued that the rule was modified for Crosby and that Lidstrom and Datsyuk were not informed until too late was wrong. Some of the posters above are persons I have respect for (Harold) and others aren't quoted but should have this post nailed to their bedroom door (Broken 16- time to man up and admit you were wrong).

Stick by your convictions and if you're right you get to gloat on LGW

Wow dude, get over yourself.

[egroen 384]

The point, is that on Friday Bettman made an exception to the original rule, created back in February stating you had to PLAY in the ASG, for Crosby. Great for Crosby, a single 22 year-old living with Mario Lemeiux who could drop his video game and get on a plane, but not exactly great for Lidstrom and Datsyuk who have familes and injuries as well.

The later character assassination enjoyed across the league stems from the perception that Lidstrom and Datsyuk knew "all along" that this exception was in place and "all they had to do" was "show up" to avoid the suspension. That is obviously not the case, as the exception did not even exist until the day they all of sudden were required to be there for.

Even more upseting is Bettman and Crosby actually encouraged this perception.

Edited January 27, 2009 by egroen

[haroldsnepsts 4,826]

The point, is that on Friday Bettman made an exception to the original rule, created back in February stating you had to PLAY in the ASG, for Crosby. Great for Crosby, a single 22 year-old living with Mario Lemeiux who could drop his video game and get on a plane, but not exactly great for Lidstrom and Datsyuk who have familes and injuries as well.

The later character assassination enjoyed across the league stems from the perception that Lidstrom and Datsyuk knew "all along" that this exception was in place and "all they had to do" was "show up" to avoid the suspension. That is obviously not the case, as the exception did not even exist until the day they all of sudden were required to be there for.

link?