Z down. Who is next for extension?

[Datsyerberger 279]

OK, I admit I don't understand the cap for crap, but please somebody tell me if it's realistically possible to keep Hossa. I want him to stay, even though there are times that I don't like seeing Dats and Zets split up.

From Hossa's point of view I cannot see him as happy and fulfilled anywhere else as he seems to be in Deetroit. From the fans' point of view it seems academic. HOWEVER. From the players' points of view I'm guessing that if they want to keep Hossa, some stars are gonna have to give up moolah to retain him (IF that's possible under cap rules...?!).

What's yer take? Anybody? Anybody?

Look at my post directly above yours for some numbers.

[egroen 384]

OK, I admit I don't understand the cap for crap, but please somebody tell me if it's realistically possible to keep Hossa. I want him to stay, even though there are times that I don't like seeing Dats and Zets split up.

From Hossa's point of view I cannot see him as happy and fulfilled anywhere else as he seems to be in Deetroit. From the fans' point of view it seems academic. HOWEVER. From the players' points of view I'm guessing that if they want to keep Hossa, some stars are gonna have to give up moolah to retain him (IF that's possible under cap rules...?!).

What's yer take? Anybody? Anybody?

You *HAVE* to trade Filppula for there to be a chance to retain Hossa.

Zetterberg's contract may very well be a sign that Holland is going to make the attempt... but in the past, he has been loathe to trade away recently signed players (Filppula).

[Vladifan 680]

You *HAVE* to trade Filppula for there to be a chance to retain Hossa.

Zetterberg's contract may very well be a sign that Holland is going to make the attempt... but in the past, he has been loathe to trade away recently signed players (Filppula).

That's fine by me. I've felt for some time that Filppula is not a finisher. If he's on the "right" line he seems to get more fired up. But all too consistently, he loses the puck.

SO. You got Holland's phone number?

[Vladifan 680]

Look at my post directly above yours for some numbers.

I want you to know I've printed it out and I will study it. And THANKS.

...Gotta get over my numbers phobia...

[BigWinston 15]

Malts/Drapes/Abdelkader (cant do any worse then Tomas "I only play the body in the preseason" Kopecky)

Thank you. That comment made my lunch break!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Well "I" for one think that either Hudler or Fil might get dealt with the "Long Term" (as said by Babcock) injury to Stuart.

I know we have Meech and could also call up someone. But Meech does not have have the size and grit that Stuart brings to this team.

I can see the Wings dealing Huds for a RENTAL D-MAN if Stuart isnt gonna play much the rest of the season. Cartilage problems in his ribs? sounds pretty long term to me But i am not a doctor....

Hudler is not going to be dealt for a rental anything.

[Datsyerberger 279]

I want you to know I've printed it out and I will study it. And THANKS.

...Gotta get over my numbers phobia...

Do note that I forgot Kopecky, but if he signs for the .6 or such he makes now he fits into that .5/yr player slot.

Hudler is not going to be dealt for a rental anything.

I concur. He's worth too much currently as both a Wing, and potential picks in the offseason if someone makes an offer sheet. If anyone gets traded, it'd be Flip.. but I doubt it. We can live with d pairings of Lids - Raffi, Kronwall - Lilja, and Lebda - Meech/Chelios. If Stuart were to be put on IR, that even gives room to bring up any 2 of Leino, Helm, and Ericsson for some big league practice.

Edited January 28, 2009 by Datsyerberger

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

Hudler is not going to be dealt for a rental anything.

If its better to trade then to try and sign and keep certain players more beneficial to the team (even Short Term)

I would think he would be on alot of teams Radar IF (HUGE IF) the wings have any needs come deadline time (Heaven Forbid)

[Datsyerberger 279]

If its better to trade then to try and sign and keep certain players more beneficial to the team (even Short Term)

I would think he would be on alot of teams Radar IF (HUGE IF) the wings have any needs come deadline time (Heaven Forbid)

Not in Hudler's case, because he's worth quite a bit as an RFA even if the Wings don't sign him.. likely, a 1st round pick or more if someone gives him an offer sheet (which will happen, if the Wings don't sign him)

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I'm not sure I buy into the idea of retaining Hossa, even with Hank coming cheap, Flip being traded, and Frazen walking. The cap is going down considerably next year and anyway you slice it 5 players earning 6M per year or more is not cap friendly.

As my grandfather used to say, "I can't afford to save that much." Just because Hank and Hossa may both come discounted, doesn't mean we should sign them. Yeah, we may save 5M off of market value, but you're still putting a good 12M into 2 players.

[russianswede919293 95]

On top of this, keep in mind that Meech could also play the 4th line given the pinch the Franzen/Hudler/Hossa situation will cause. If Kenny is ok with running 7 Dmen with Meech being a floater between offense and defense that will ever-so slightly help things.

I agree with you that that would be ideal, but they have continuously stated that Meech's future with the franchise is as a defenceman.

http://www.mlive.com/redwings/index.ssf/20...rt_escapes.html

Meech's future on defense

With Franzen out, Derek Meech was slated to play his 12th game at forward, but he was moved to defense after Stuart left the game. Meech has played fewer games on defense (nine), but that is where his future with the club remains.

who can we call up that replaces what Stuart has to offer here!

Temporarily Ericsson could feasably be called up, but more realistically I feel Chelios will get his ice time until he is back in 2 weeks.

Wont be enough room....They have Leino and Helm to keep on the Wings roster.

Leino is a RFA and I would not be surprised if he went back to Finland, I hope not though.

OK, I admit I don't understand the cap for crap, but please somebody tell me if it's realistically possible to keep Hossa.

I personally don't think so, but I never count Holland out of making a magical move to make anything happen.

[Hockeytown_Ryan 122]

Not in Hudler's case, because he's worth quite a bit as an RFA even if the Wings don't sign him.. likely, a 1st round pick or more if someone gives him an offer sheet (which will happen, if the Wings don't sign him)

All Im saying is he is on a radar of teams needing certain players.......and if the right deal came around Holland would do it...

Other teams would get those benefits too would they not? getting Comp for a RFA??? makes him all that more attractive if Im Bryan Murray looking to add by the deadline.....

[Datsyerberger 279]

I'm not sure I buy into the idea of retaining Hossa, even with Hank coming cheap, Flip being traded, and Frazen walking. The cap is going down considerably next year and anyway you slice it 5 players earning 6M per year or more is not cap friendly.

As my grandfather used to say, "I can't afford to save that much." Just because Hank and Hossa may both come discounted, doesn't mean we should sign them. Yeah, we may save 5M off of market value, but you're still putting a good 12M into 2 players.

If you manage to retain Hossa at 6 as well, that's 33.55 for the top 3 paid forwards, top 2 paid d-men, and top paid goalie. (Or, about 35.8 for the top 6 paid players)

For comparison:

Penguins: ~31-32

Sharks: ~36.5

Capitals: ~31.5

Bruins: ~29.5 (And dont they have to sign Thomas? Though you can probably say goodbye to Manny's contract..)

Rangers: ~36-36.5

Habs: ~30 (These guys have lots of big UFAs coming up)

Duckies: ~31-32

Flyers: ~33

Flames: ~32

Hawks: ~32

Nucks: ~29-30

These are all successful teams, with the unfortunate exception of the Pens, who have crappy coach + big injuries in the 1st half. The Wings seem to be on the upper end of the average if they sign Hossa at 6, but not the highest (and it should be noted the highest is currently the most successful, though #2, the Bruins, are the lowest in this bunch).

Let's look at some unsuccessful teams:

Bolts: (09-10 numbers, assuming no trades) ~27-2

Ottawa: ~31 (Their problem isn't top 6, though, but rather everything else XD)

Islanders: ~22.5

Trashcans.. er, Thrashers: ~22.5-23

Leafs: 23.75

Blues: ~26 (They're like missing 1 or 2 of those all season, too)

Kings: ~20

The bottom teams, on average, seem to be paying for a much, much cheaper (and also much less skilled) top 6 players. If you look at the average teams, their numbers are.. well, unsurprisingly, average.

I don't think there's any problem with the Wings spending around the same money for their top 6 as the other most successful teams in the league.

[thedatsyukian 7]

I hope franzen is who is next up to the plate. He's truly a rare breed.

[wingsownnhl43 14]

If you manage to retain Hossa at 6 as well, that's 33.55 for the top 3 paid forwards, top 2 paid d-men, and top paid goalie. (Or, about 35.8 for the top 6 paid players)

For comparison:

Penguins: ~31-32

Sharks: ~36.5

Capitals: ~31.5

Bruins: ~29.5 (And dont they have to sign Thomas? Though you can probably say goodbye to Manny's contract..)

Rangers: ~36-36.5

Habs: ~30 (These guys have lots of big UFAs coming up)

Duckies: ~31-32

Flyers: ~33

Flames: ~32

Hawks: ~32

Nucks: ~29-30

These are all successful teams, with the unfortunate exception of the Pens, who have crappy coach + big injuries in the 1st half. The Wings seem to be on the upper end of the average if they sign Hossa at 6, but not the highest (and it should be noted the highest is currently the most successful, though #2, the Bruins, are the lowest in this bunch).

Let's look at some unsuccessful teams:

Bolts: (09-10 numbers, assuming no trades) ~27-2

Ottawa: ~31 (Their problem isn't top 6, though, but rather everything else XD)

Islanders: ~22.5

Trashcans.. er, Thrashers: ~22.5-23

Leafs: 23.75

Blues: ~26 (They're like missing 1 or 2 of those all season, too)

Kings: ~20

The bottom teams, on average, seem to be paying for a much, much cheaper (and also much less skilled) top 6 players. If you look at the average teams, their numbers are.. well, unsurprisingly, average.

I don't think there's any problem with the Wings spending around the same money for their top 6 as the other most successful teams in the league.

This is a hell of a post. Dam.

[thedatsyukian 7]

Agreed. Very insightful post, thank you.

[Matt 1,049]

If you manage to retain Hossa at 6 as well, that's 33.55 for the top 3 paid forwards, top 2 paid d-men, and top paid goalie. (Or, about 35.8 for the top 6 paid players)

For comparison:

*snip*

The bottom teams, on average, seem to be paying for a much, much cheaper (and also much less skilled) top 6 players. If you look at the average teams, their numbers are.. well, unsurprisingly, average.

I don't think there's any problem with the Wings spending around the same money for their top 6 as the other most successful teams in the league.

+1 Great post.

[NEpats1028 1]

God I hate stupid posts. Seriously, why in God's name would the Wings need to trade for a Dman or goalie? Please educate us on this. I'm guessing you have no idea what the farm system looks like for us.

Well considering Stuart is down & could be out for a while, Ozzie's numbers are through the roof, and Conklin is consitantly inconsistant, I'd say we need some help back there. So how about YOU educate ME, and tell me that the statement i just made is false.

[dallas27 7]

At this point I think you have to look at trading Flip as a viable option solely because it gives Mr. Holland a ton more options and money to spread around. Even if that means keeping Hossa OR Franzen and Hudler. The Wings don't need a 3 million dollar defensive forward right now or in the near future really, with Helm and Abdelkader waiting in GRap.

Food for thought: We all know Hank could have easily gotten 7 mil if he played hard ball with Mr. Holland, there is just no question about that, and he would have been worth it even at that. But do you think Mr. Holland sat Hank down and said something along the lines of "Hank, we all know how much you are worth to this organization, but if you are willing to take 6 mil a year it sends a message to Hossa and in turn both of us can make a serious pitch to him staying here long-term at a contract similar to yours."

[Datsyerberger 279]

Well considering Stuart is down & could be out for a while, Ozzie's numbers are through the roof, and Conklin is consitantly inconsistant, I'd say we need some help back there. So how about YOU educate ME, and tell me that the statement i just made is false.

Let me, let me!

Lids-Raffi

Kronwall-Lilja

Chelios/Lebda-Meech/Ericsson/Kindl

is still one of the best D groups in the league.

And while our goaltending hasn't been spectacular, we're only investing ~2.2 mil cap space in them. It's not like we're paying 4.5 for a Gerber/LolBarbera duo.

I have faith Ozzie will come through in the playoffs.

[Bannedforlife 403]

If you manage to retain Hossa at 6 as well, that's 33.55 for the top 3 paid forwards, top 2 paid d-men, and top paid goalie. (Or, about 35.8 for the top 6 paid players)

For comparison:

Penguins: ~31-32

Sharks: ~36.5

Capitals: ~31.5

Bruins: ~29.5 (And dont they have to sign Thomas? Though you can probably say goodbye to Manny's contract..)

Rangers: ~36-36.5

Habs: ~30 (These guys have lots of big UFAs coming up)

Duckies: ~31-32

Flyers: ~33

Flames: ~32

Hawks: ~32

Nucks: ~29-30

These are all successful teams, with the unfortunate exception of the Pens, who have crappy coach + big injuries in the 1st half. The Wings seem to be on the upper end of the average if they sign Hossa at 6, but not the highest (and it should be noted the highest is currently the most successful, though #2, the Bruins, are the lowest in this bunch).

Let's look at some unsuccessful teams:

Bolts: (09-10 numbers, assuming no trades) ~27-2

Ottawa: ~31 (Their problem isn't top 6, though, but rather everything else XD)

Islanders: ~22.5

Trashcans.. er, Thrashers: ~22.5-23

Leafs: 23.75

Blues: ~26 (They're like missing 1 or 2 of those all season, too)

Kings: ~20

The bottom teams, on average, seem to be paying for a much, much cheaper (and also much less skilled) top 6 players. If you look at the average teams, their numbers are.. well, unsurprisingly, average.

I don't think there's any problem with the Wings spending around the same money for their top 6 as the other most successful teams in the league.

You just schooled the s*** out of all the Hossa doubters!

[lets go pavel 2]

Food for thought: We all know Hank could have easily gotten 7 mil if he played hard ball with Mr. Holland, there is just no question about that, and he would have been worth it even at that. But do you think Mr. Holland sat Hank down and said something along the lines of "Hank, we all know how much you are worth to this organization, but if you are willing to take 6 mil a year it sends a message to Hossa and in turn both of us can make a serious pitch to him staying here long-term at a contract similar to yours."

He pretty much did get 7 a season. The original rumor was 10 years, 70 million. They basically just added 2 years on the end at 1 million apiece to drop the cap hit.

Edited January 28, 2009 by lets go pavel

[Datsyerberger 279]

At this point I think you have to look at trading Flip as a viable option solely because it gives Mr. Holland a ton more options and money to spread around. Even if that means keeping Hossa OR Franzen and Hudler. The Wings don't need a 3 million dollar defensive forward right now or in the near future really, with Helm and Abdelkader waiting in GRap.

Food for thought: We all know Hank could have easily gotten 7 mil if he played hard ball with Mr. Holland, there is just no question about that, and he would have been worth it even at that. But do you think Mr. Holland sat Hank down and said something along the lines of "Hank, we all know how much you are worth to this organization, but if you are willing to take 6 mil a year it sends a message to Hossa and in turn both of us can make a serious pitch to him staying here long-term at a contract similar to yours."

+1 to this, especially that 1st paragraph.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

If you manage to retain Hossa at 6 as well, that's 33.55 for the top 3 paid forwards, top 2 paid d-men, and top paid goalie. (Or, about 35.8 for the top 6 paid players)

For comparison:

Penguins: ~31-32

Sharks: ~36.5

Capitals: ~31.5

Bruins: ~29.5 (And dont they have to sign Thomas? Though you can probably say goodbye to Manny's contract..)

Rangers: ~36-36.5

Habs: ~30 (These guys have lots of big UFAs coming up)

Duckies: ~31-32

Flyers: ~33

Flames: ~32

Hawks: ~32

Nucks: ~29-30

These are all successful teams, with the unfortunate exception of the Pens, who have crappy coach + big injuries in the 1st half. The Wings seem to be on the upper end of the average if they sign Hossa at 6, but not the highest (and it should be noted the highest is currently the most successful, though #2, the Bruins, are the lowest in this bunch).

Let's look at some unsuccessful teams:

Bolts: (09-10 numbers, assuming no trades) ~27-2

Ottawa: ~31 (Their problem isn't top 6, though, but rather everything else XD)

Islanders: ~22.5

Trashcans.. er, Thrashers: ~22.5-23

Leafs: 23.75

Blues: ~26 (They're like missing 1 or 2 of those all season, too)

Kings: ~20

The bottom teams, on average, seem to be paying for a much, much cheaper (and also much less skilled) top 6 players. If you look at the average teams, their numbers are.. well, unsurprisingly, average.

I don't think there's any problem with the Wings spending around the same money for their top 6 as the other most successful teams in the league.

...So now we're going to judge our cap situation against most teams who have not been successful for longer than 3 years? We aren't talking about next year - we're talking about any number of years that are eaten up by having 5 guys at 6M+. Its a terrible way to plan for the future by banking on the present. Theres a reason NONE of this teams have had the success that the Wings have had over the past 15 years, or even since the salary cap days, and theres no indication that these teams can continue their success at the rate their at. Almost ALL the teams you listed DO have problems because of the big money spent on a limited number of players. Boston is going to have a hard time re-signing their young guys. The Ducks have no room for secondary scoring, and its hurt them. The Pens are already screwed. The Flyers have to figure out how to trade someone before they get Briere back on the roster because theres no space for them. The Rags can't wait to get rid of half of their bloated contracts, and are the worse for it.

These situations only work in the SHORT TERM. Soon enough, they come back to bite you in the ass.

[lets go pavel 2]

At this point I think you have to look at trading Flip as a viable option solely because it gives Mr. Holland a ton more options and money to spread around. Even if that means keeping Hossa OR Franzen and Hudler. The Wings don't need a 3 million dollar defensive forward right now or in the near future really, with Helm and Abdelkader waiting in GRap.

You're right, Flip makes too much money to stay as a 3rd line center. I think the plan for him for this year, prior to signing Hossa, was to have him centering the 2nd line, and I would guess that is still the plan for him for next year. I'm guessing we keep one of Hossa and Franzen, and maybe Sammy if he'll take 1.5. We probably lose Huddles, unless he'll take a huge discount for a year. As for which one of Hossa or Franzen, I would think Hossa is the more expensive option, but it is funny that I have not heard any mention of trying to get Franzen extended, but every time I hear Kenny talk about Hossa he sounds very interested in dealing with him.

Maybe something like this, if Hossa goes for something similar to Z:

Z (6) - D (6.70 - H (2.25)

Leino (.9) - Flip (3) - Hossa (6)

Cleary (2.85) - Drapes (1.58) - Sammy (1.5)

Maltby (.88) - Helm (.6) - ? (.5)

? (.5)

--------------------------

Lidstrom (7.45) - Rafalski (6)

Stuart (3.75) - Kronner (3)

Lilja (1.25) - Lebda (.65)

Meech (.48)

--------------------------

Ozzie (1.4) - Howard (.75)

Or maybe we let Hossa walk and keep Huddles and Conklin? Who knows ... I've had my fun. Glad it's not my job!