Not much room for Zetterberg and Hossa

[Guest mindfly]

Very good read imo, kind of sad in a way but probably the most reasonable.

The press conference was in mid-flight. Henrik Zetterberg was at the podium being praised by Ken Holland as being like Steve Yzerman. In these parts, there aren't many higher compliments for a hockey player. Mike Ilitch was smiling at the thought of committing $73 million to Zetterberg.

The press conference came an hour after the Red Wings' practice ended Wednesday. Most always, the Olympia Room — where the conference took place — is vacant during the daytime, making it the perfect short-cut for players as they turn right from the locker room, cut through the vacant party room and out into the Joe Louis Arena parking lot.

So as Zetterberg talked at the podium, as Yzerman spoke and Holland explained and questions were posed and photos were taken, some of the Red Wings made their way through the Olympia Room not realizing that this was one day their short-cut would be populated.

The players' path was 10 to 20 feet away from the press conference area, over by the tables set up with hors d'oeuvres for the media.

Most Red Wings made their way through, not stopping, not wanting to interrupt in any way. Some like Chris Osgood and Kirk Maltby stood for a bit in the background, taking in the question-and-answer session. Andreas Lilja stopped and smiled, trying to make Zetterberg crack up. (By the way, players universally adore to catch a teammate doing a television interview, walk up behind the camera and try to make them laugh in any way possible. If you watch a Red Wing on television start to smile for no apparent reason, odds are that Lilja or Kris Draper or Jiri Hudler or some other teammate has just pushed the right button off camera.)

As Zetterberg talked about his new contract, Marian Hossa and Tomas Kopecky made their way through the shortcut. Neither of the tall Slovaks who have known each other since their school days (Kopecky was a classmate of Hossa's younger brother Marcel) stopped, which was the most common reaction by the players.

But the duality of the situation was remarkable.

Zetterberg's seven-month negotiations were over. He was being hailed as a cornerstone of the franchise for years to come.

Hossa's negotiations were just starting in earnest, now that the club knows how much money is left after Zetterberg's signing. Hossa is still looked at as an outsider, a rare rental player in the Red Wings organization.

This isn't to say that the scene wasn't a good one or wasn't valid or natural. It was just a fetching snapshot of two brilliant players in vastly different positions off the ice.

Hossa and Zetterberg are two of the best forwards in hockey. Any club would be thrilled to have either one.

Yet Detroit has the enviable problem of having both of them plus Pavel Datsyuk and the Gordian Knot of how to fit all of them under the salary cap for years to come.

Off the ice, Hossa and Zetterberg are two of the best people you'll meet in hockey. Zetterberg deserves every cent that he makes in this contract. In my opinion, he's either underpaid or a bargain - depending on which side of the management-worker fence you sit - and has been for years.

Hossa, however, is a remarkable fellow as well. Wearing a grey ski cap and a plain coat and he made his way towards the arena exit, Hossa is as good of a teammate and employee as Zetterberg.

But Zetterberg is a legacy in Detroit. Drafted here, he blossomed here and it's difficult for fan or front-office employee to even think of parting with any player that they've discovered.

Hossa came into the league in Ottawa and had the misfortune of being good enough to counterbalance a trade for Dany Heatley after Heatley need to leave Atlanta to distance himself from the tragedy of a teammate dying in a car that he was driving.

Since then, Hossa has been transient. He starred in Atlanta, but that was Ilya Kovalchuk's team. He was traded to Pittsburgh for a few months, but roots didn't grow there.

Marian Hossa fits perfectly in Detroit. He fits in a locker room full of Mr. Congeniality candidates. His style of play — a big goal-scoring winger who focuses on defense — is exactly what this team was lacking.

Marian Hossa's next contract will be a long-term one. He wants to settle in one place. He wants exactly what Henrik Zetterberg got earlier this week. And he'd love to settle in Detroit.

But there's a good chance that won't happen. Not here, at least.

Hossa is at the wrong time — in the salary-cap era — and the wrong place — a team loaded with high-end signings that leave little cap space.

There's a good chance that the snapshot at Wednesday's press conference will become an avatar for what will be the future ... Zetterberg sitting with Holland and Ilitch and Yzerman, Hossa heading to the exit.

[b.shanafan14 733]

I'm a huge Val Filppula fan, the kid has skill and guts, good defensively a Red Wings-type player. That said his lack of production is showing that he really may never peak and become the 70 pt producer the Wings have touted him as. As unfortunate as it is, might be time to move Flip this offseason and call it a lesson learned. I really hate the salary cap and personally I feel it fixes very little. I'd love to see Hossa in the Winged-Wheel next season, same with Franzen, but I'm also one of the loudest voices saying "impossible" at the situation. Hank's contract helped, but when you need a nickel and someone gives you a penny, you're still a little short.

In a perfect world, the Wings keep Franzen, Hossa, and Hudler for low cap numbers. But professional sports isn't a perfect world, even if it is hockey. There is only so much you can leave on the table, especially when it could potentially be your only real big pay day, like it will be for Franzen and Hudler. One of Franzen and Hossa will be signed, the other will be forced to leave with open market money as consolation prize (funny that players love the organization in Detroit so much that another possibly $1-2mil per season is 2nd place), and the rough situation with Hudler is if we aren't able to move around much salary and we only have so much space left, any offer sheet someone gives him can be pretty low, as long as its just above what the Wings have left, and Hudler will really have no choice since he deserves to be paid.

[titanium2 867]

Yeah I read this. Meh. Marian an outsider? Maybe the super Swedes need to "take them out and party with them" as Mr. I put it.

Not sure how credible the Fourth Period is, but take this for what it's worth.

"Sources tell TFP that while Hossa would certainly be willing to stay in Detroit long-term, he would want at least $7 million per year."

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det090129.html

[Dominator2005 558]

Need to trade Flip (very bad contract) and Kronwall...

[Chunkylover 26]

Yeah I read this. Meh. Marian an outsider? Maybe the super Swedes need to "take them out and party with them" as Mr. I put it.

Not sure how credible the Fourth Period is, but take this for what it's worth.

"Sources tell TFP that while Hossa would certainly be willing to stay in Detroit long-term, he would want at least $7 million per year."

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det090129.html

That's kind of sad because he's willing to provide an even greater discount than he's already made, but the Wings, at the moment at least, can't even sign him for that.

[Statts 4]

Nice article. Thats the cold reality me thinks. Upon him signing here, I always thought of Hossa as a rental. Gonna suck seeing him in another jersey next year though.

Gotta feel for the guy, obiously he loves it here, and the feeling is mutual. Just bad timing.

P.S. damn you salary cap!

[gcom007 1,465]

I have more faith in Holland than Macleod...give it time...

[thedisappearer 291]

Zetterberg sitting with Holland and Ilitch and Yzerman, Hossa heading to the exit.

Where the hell is Yzerman going?

Hossa leaving is only sad if you labored under the delusion he'd stay.

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

Need to trade Flip (very bad contract) and Kronwall...

*jumps on your back, calls you crazy*

Val? heartbeat to clear up space.

Kronner? he just needs to pick up his play.. We know what he 'can' be, and will be come play offs, we dont know what the hell Vals is anymore, once a highly touted player with tons of upside, slowly turning into just another 3rd line euro..

[Z and D for the C 712]

Hossa leaving is only sad if you labored under the delusion he'd stay.

You're so right. It's not a big deal at all when a league superstar leaves your team. Hossa means nothing. We should probably just trade him for Jordan Tootoo, we need an enforcer anyway.

/blatant sarcasm

[thedisappearer 291]

You're so right. It's not a big deal at all when a league superstar leaves your team. Hossa means nothing. We should probably just trade him for Jordan Tootoo, we need an enforcer anyway.

/blatant sarcasm

*facepalm

If, when Hossa signed for 1 year, actually thought it was likely he'd be around for longer, you were laboring under a delusion. Is it possible? Sure. Is it even likely, even before we signed Z's extention? No.

It sucks he's gonna be leaving, but I realized this from day one. Don't act like a Pens fan and think this is a travesty hoisted us- it's a blessing we had him for one season.

[#18 the _Hoss_ 2]

[Winged_Wheeler 3]

Article doesn't scare me one bit. Marian Hossa will be on the Red Wings long term.

[Booster313 138]

The artile is just one persons opinion.

The fact is if Hossa wants to stay here bad enough he will. I believe that Kenny will do everything he can to keep Hossa long term. Keep in mind, Kenny offered Hossa a long term deal last summer before he signed the one year. That's before Zetterbergs extension.

If he does leave, I will wish him the best.

[Dominator2005 558]

*jumps on your back, calls you crazy*

Val? heartbeat to clear up space.

Kronner? he just needs to pick up his play.. We know what he 'can' be, and will be come play offs, we dont know what the hell Vals is anymore, once a highly touted player with tons of upside, slowly turning into just another 3rd line euro..

Injury PRONE

[VM1138 1,921]

I'm a huge Val Filppula fan, the kid has skill and guts, good defensively a Red Wings-type player. That said his lack of production is showing that he really may never peak and become the 70 pt producer the Wings have touted him as. As unfortunate as it is, might be time to move Flip this offseason and call it a lesson learned. I really hate the salary cap and personally I feel it fixes very little. I'd love to see Hossa in the Winged-Wheel next season, same with Franzen, but I'm also one of the loudest voices saying "impossible" at the situation. Hank's contract helped, but when you need a nickel and someone gives you a penny, you're still a little short.

In a perfect world, the Wings keep Franzen, Hossa, and Hudler for low cap numbers. But professional sports isn't a perfect world, even if it is hockey. There is only so much you can leave on the table, especially when it could potentially be your only real big pay day, like it will be for Franzen and Hudler. One of Franzen and Hossa will be signed, the other will be forced to leave with open market money as consolation prize (funny that players love the organization in Detroit so much that another possibly $1-2mil per season is 2nd place), and the rough situation with Hudler is if we aren't able to move around much salary and we only have so much space left, any offer sheet someone gives him can be pretty low, as long as its just above what the Wings have left, and Hudler will really have no choice since he deserves to be paid.

Not to bash Flip, he is solid enough, but sometimes you have to let talent go. I think it's a nobrainer to let Flip go in favor of Hudler, Franzen and Hossa. He may end up being a huge goal scorer for another team, but why should we take a risk when we have Hudler, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa, all bonafide goal scorers already?

I'd actually see Hudler leaving before Franzen, just because there's a chance he might not be as happy here as the others. I mean, Babcock would hardly ever play him despite his work ethic, maybe there's something going on between them we don't know about. Franzen, however, has been treated right from day one and would probably love to stay for a big discount.

Hossa on the other hand...he'd be willing to take a discount but how much of one? He took one to come here, but he's still matching Lidstrom. I can't imagine him taking less. I wonder if they could persuade him to take a contract that matches Zetterberg by explaining the cap situation and that a Lidstrom-size pay day is a bad idea in today's league.

[VM1138 1,921]

Yeah I read this. Meh. Marian an outsider? Maybe the super Swedes need to "take them out and party with them" as Mr. I put it.

Not sure how credible the Fourth Period is, but take this for what it's worth.

"Sources tell TFP that while Hossa would certainly be willing to stay in Detroit long-term, he would want at least $7 million per year."

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/det090129.html

I think TFP got Z's contract wrong by two years and some odd millions, so it might be an indication, but hardly set in stone.

I'd say with their 7 million expectation, he'd sign for anywhere between 6 and 8, probably for 6-8 years as well. Someone do the math and figure out how such a contract would work.

[ComradeWasabi 109]

Keep in mind, Kenny offered Hossa a long term deal last summer before he signed the one year. That's before Zetterbergs extension.

And Hossa turned him down because it wasn't for enough money.

Coming into this season I was totally expecting Hossa to come, play for one season and then go elsewhere. My expectations haven't changed one bit. If he takes a big pay cut to stay, then bravo: otherwise, I would rather keep Franzen and Hudler.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I think a lot of people saw that Zetterberg signed for 6M and, for some reason, that got people thinking we're suddenly in great shape financially. We still aren't. The Wings saved maybe 1-1.5M on Hank signing long-term. They didn't save 4-5M. Just because Hank signed at a discount doesn't mean we're not still going have to make all the pieces fit perfectly.

[talex 1]

I think everyone should just take a deep breath on the Hudler, Hossa, Franzen soap opera, at this point even without any of the 3 the wings are still a playoff contending team, so doomsday is not coming no matter what happens and there is still alot of season left, not to mention Holland gave indications that something would probably be done with either Hossa or Franzen in the next 4 to 6 weeks. Sure some will have to go.

I agree with those talking about Flip, but only if it means keeping both Hossa and Franzen and Hudler, other wise keep 2 of the 3 and Flip. If it was my personal choice I get divided between trying to sign all 3 and or looking for some better defense and possibly a goalie, right now I would say Conklin is as good or better than Osgood and noone seems to worry there, look at the points being scored against and this becomes more troubling than the wings ability to score, no matter what this scenario works out. I tend to think I would go with 1 of either 2 scenarios.

1. Go for more defense / goalie and not put anything major into any of the above listed, bringing up some of the guy from GR and getting some better D-men and a good goalie.

2. Make some tough decisions to keep both of them and even though difficult possibly dealing Flip, Hudler, Sammy, Kronwall and if a way Rafalski (only because he has a large cap hit) if need be in order to keep Hossa and Franzen, I know it sounds harsh... Flip and Hudler... but guys like Franzen and Hossa will make average players around them very good to above average players pretty much anyone around them, not to mention Flip and Huds deserve to move up in lines and ice time which they may not get here any time soon. I would never considering trading Homer... just a note for those who have brought him up, in hockey you have Centers, Forwards, Goalies, Dedencemen and then you have Homer... he has a position all his own and he is the best at it even with his age... he needs and will retire a wings.

Ok, now to the Hossa / Franzen question specifically having a choice between the 2, tough... Franzen always a wing, Hossa... top 10, but new to the team... Franzen... better in front of the net, Hossa - faster better shot... tough , but I worry about Franzen staying healthy long term, I do not have this fear about Hossa... Hossa is better defensively... I would lean Hossa but I would be comfortble long terming both like Z if Holland can pull it off and he is confident that they both would stay hungry, between them honestly I could and would have to flip a coin if forced to choose.

All that said, one of the things that has made detroit such a great team for so long is the ability to bring 4 good lines, look at the penguins to see what a couple good forwards only gets you... we have some good talent in GR just dying to come up to the big time, we also have Draper, Maltby, Lidstrom who will not be around much longer and I am sure Holland knows this better than we do and can work with some of that coming off the cap hit in the next year or 2. I also think Lidstrom will take some sort of home town deal if he does not retire, but I do not think it will be so much a cut as to make a huge difference, the one I would like to see do that is Rafalski which I do not see happening...

In the end living in Wiscoinsin and seeing the packers go from Dominate to Docile makes this more clear for me than others I guess, I am very happy to know that even after 17 years successful years in a row... no matter what we will have a good team that has a better than average shot at the playoffs to root for next year and it looks like many years to come.

[hokike 1]

For thos who propose "add D, add goalie", get real: RW has not cap room even for signing their current players...

Hossa is not going for 7 mil per y contract, he wants much more. Franzen is worth 5 and hudler 4 mil at open market.

Lets talk about hometown discounts: Lidström 1 mil, Zetterberg 1.5 at best. They still got 7-8 mil per y, so ther discount was approximately 15%.

15% discounts from Franzen and Hudler won't help keep Hossa and asking bigger sacrifices from Franzen and Hudler and Hossa than Lidström and Zetterberg commited -15% - would be REAL LOW BLOW from Holland and as a player I'd leave from team IMMEDIATELY.

Face it - players are ready to sacrifice but no more than 10-15%.And Holland, I can bet, knows it very well.

Edited January 31, 2009 by hokike

[lets go pavel 2]

For thos who propose "add D, add goalie", get real: RW has not cap room even for signing their current players...

Hossa is not going for 7 mil per y contract, he wants much more. Franzen is worth 5 and hudler 4 mil at open market.

Lets talk about hometown discounts: Lidström 1 mil, Zetterberg 1.5 at best. They still got 7-8 mil per y, so ther discount was approximately 15%.

15% discounts from Franzen and Hudler won't help keep Hossa and asking bigger sacrifices from Franzen and Hudler and Hossa than Lidström and Zetterberg commited -15% - would be REAL LOW BLOW from Holland and as a player I'd leave from team IMMEDIATELY.

Face it - players are ready to sacrifice but no more than 10-15%.And Holland, I can bet, knows it very well.

Hossa is right around 7 this year, and one a 1 year deal. There is no indication he wants more than that. On a longer deal we could work something like Z's deal so the cap hit is even lower. Also, Z isn't getting 7-8 mil per year, his number is right around 6. Lids is around 7.5. Hudler isn't going on the open market, he's a RFA, and I highly doubt any team is willing to give up the draft picks it would cost them to lure him away with a $4M offer sheet ... we still can't keep them all, no, but Z's deal opens up more possibilities ...

[hokike 1]

Hossa is right around 7 this year, and one a 1 year deal. There is no indication he wants more than that. On a longer deal we could work something like Z's deal so the cap hit is even lower. Also, Z isn't getting 7-8 mil per year, his number is right around 6. Lids is around 7.5. Hudler isn't going on the open market, he's a RFA, and I highly doubt any team is willing to give up the draft picks it would cost them to lure him away with a $4M offer sheet ... we still can't keep them all, no, but Z's deal opens up more possibilities ...

a)Hossa's 7 mil is huge exception, only because of 1. one year deal. 2. win cup -good chance. And we can be pretty sure that somebody offers to Hossa 90 mil again in open market.

b) de facto Zetterberg still earns 7.5 per year through 8 yrs. I do not expect him to play more, so he will get 4yr for nothing after retiring .

c) don' t expect still Hudler to take more than 10% hometown disount ( if even this)

d) "savings" from Zetterberg and Lidström help to sign Franzen and Hudler but not Hossa.

Edited February 1, 2009 by hokike

[ComradeWasabi 109]

I don't foresee Hudler making 4 million here or elsewhere. As an RFA, it's unlikely that he will get an offer sheet that large; and keep in mind that last year, in a much better economic climate for the sport AND in a time when the Wings' cap situation was much better, Dan Cleary only got what, 2.2 million? True enough, he had fewer points, but he has a much greater defensive upside. Honestly, with the place the Wings are in relation to the cap now and the future of where the cap is in question, I would be very much surprised if Hudler got more than 3 million.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I don't foresee Hudler making 4 million here or elsewhere. As an RFA, it's unlikely that he will get an offer sheet that large; and keep in mind that last year, in a much better economic climate for the sport AND in a time when the Wings' cap situation was much better, Dan Cleary only got what, 2.2 million? True enough, he had fewer points, but he has a much greater defensive upside. Honestly, with the place the Wings are in relation to the cap now and the future of where the cap is in question, I would be very much surprised if Hudler got more than 3 million.

Dan Cleary got 2.85M. And the reason Cleary got so much money had a lot to do with his intangibles, and especially his 06/07 playoff performance where he was arguably our best forward. That, and he had 40 points in 71 games, followed up by 42 points in 63 games. All in all, Cleary was on pace for 45 points, and last year on pace for 55 points. Combine that with his hard hat attitutde, work ethic, physicality, and defense and he had a great case for 2.85M per year. In fact, hes not a bad option for a full time spot on the 2nd line next year if it comes down to it. Last season, Cleary only saw 12:22 of ESTOI. This season he only sees 13 minutes even - less even strength ice time than Val Filppula - and yet on a full season he'd be on pace for 46 points.

It all depends on the contract length with Hudler, but I don't see him getting more than 3M, assuming the Wings don't match any overpaying offer-sheets. And I doubt any team offers 4M for Hudler, unless they're a desperate team thats lost out on the UFA catch - and if thats the case, then they're 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks are likely going to be high ones.

If the Wings can talk Hudler into taking a discount, then I could see them getting him signed to a 2-3 year deal, in the 2.8ish territory. It allows the Wings flexibility, gives Hudler a little security, but it also allows him not to be stuck with an underpaying contract if he really breaks out and shows hes capable of 70 points.