Not much room for Zetterberg and Hossa

[lets go pavel 2]

a)Hossa's 7 mil is huge exception, only because of 1. one year deal. 2. win cup -good chance. And we can be pretty sure that somebody offers to Hossa 90 mil again in open market.

b) de facto Zetterberg still earns 7.5 per year through 8 yrs. I do not expect him to play more, so he will get 4yr for nothing after retiring .

c) don' t expect still Hudler to take more than 10% hometown disount ( if even this)

d) "savings" from Zetterberg and Lidström help to sign Franzen and Hudler but not Hossa.

a) Hossa has made it plain that he wants to stay here, and if he's willing to come here for 1 year at 7 million why not more?

b) That isn't the point ... Z may earn 7.5 through the first 8 years, but his cap hit is only 6. This is the number that matters, and theoretically we could structure our other contracts similarly.

c) 10% of what? He's a RESTRICTED FREE AGENT. He's not on the open market, so his open market value doesn't really apply.

d) Huh?

[YoungGuns1340 1]

a) Hossa has made it plain that he wants to stay here, and if he's willing to come here for 1 year at 7 million why not more?

b) That isn't the point ... Z may earn 7.5 through the first 8 years, but his cap hit is only 6. This is the number that matters, and theoretically we could structure our other contracts similarly.

c) 10% of what? He's a RESTRICTED FREE AGENT. He's not on the open market, so his open market value doesn't really apply.

d) Huh?

It would be hard to structure Hossa's contract that way, though. If the rumor is true and Hossa wants an average of 7M a year, then you're looking at paying Hossa 7M well into his mid to late 30s. 9,9,9,7,5,5,5 is 7M at 7 years, but you're still paying Hossa 7M at the age of 37. Hossa may be worth 7M at 37, but that means Detroit is paying 13M to two players over the age of 35. Do you know how nice thats going to be when we can't afford to pay the likes of Jakub Kindl, Daniel Larsson, Brendan Smith, and Darren Helm their dues when they're 26, 27, 28 years old and in the prime of their careers? And this is assuming we don't have or draft some kid who in the next 5-7 years COULD be another Zetterberg or Datsyuk thats looking for their first RFA contract post-entry level and have a good case for being worth 3 or 4M dollars.

[hokike 1]

[quote name='lets go pavel' date='January 31, 2009 - 07:46PM' post='1533473']
a)  Hossa has made it plain that he wants to stay here, and if he's willing to come here for 1 year at 7 million why not more?

PR talk and reality are two different things. He was willing ONLY to take 7.4 for one year because of: SC possibility and that is it.

b)  That isn't the point ... Z may earn 7.5 through the first 8 years, but his cap hit is only 6.  This is the number that matters, and theoretically we could structure our other contracts similarly.

My point was that Z was not willing to take bigger discount actually than Lidström did. to bring cap hit down Holland had no choice than add 4 "cheap years"

c)  10% of what?  He's a RESTRICTED FREE AGENT.  He's not on the open market, so his open market value doesn't really apply.

Yes it does . When you try to force player to take significantly less than open market, "because of you are only RFA", what kind of message it would send?

If Hudler really takes some discount then contract won't be longer than 2-3 yrs, IMO

 and theoretically we could structure our other contracts similarly.

I'm not capologist but it is sure that rules and league have something to say about such structures. Maybe you can form one contract per team in similar way or something like that.

[Selke13 0]

"There's a good chance that the snapshot at Wednesday's press conference will become an avatar for what will be the future ... Zetterberg sitting with Holland and Ilitch and Yzerman, Hossa heading to the exit."

I know it's pretty much impossible, but.........

What if Hossa likes Detorit so much he is willing to take a Paul Kariya type decrease in salary, as he did in Colorado to play Selanne.

Think of the possibilities

[Rick 42]

It would be hard to structure Hossa's contract that way, though. If the rumor is true and Hossa wants an average of 7M a year, then you're looking at paying Hossa 7M well into his mid to late 30s. 9,9,9,7,5,5,5 is 7M at 7 years, but you're still paying Hossa 7M at the age of 37. Hossa may be worth 7M at 37, but that means Detroit is paying 13M to two players over the age of 35. Do you know how nice thats going to be when we can't afford to pay the likes of Jakub Kindl, Daniel Larsson, Brendan Smith, and Darren Helm their dues when they're 26, 27, 28 years old and in the prime of their careers? And this is assuming we don't have or draft some kid who in the next 5-7 years COULD be another Zetterberg or Datsyuk thats looking for their first RFA contract post-entry level and have a good case for being worth 3 or 4M dollars.

thats true. we won't be able to keep everyone. I really don't think Holland will want to have everyone on long term contracts for that reason. For all we know, players will be getting raises and some contracts won't be getting renewed.

[Dominator2005 558]

We need more room - so Holland need to trade Flip and Kronwall (if we are going after another DEF). Next season, they need to find room for Leino and that means bye-bye Sammy. I would let Hudler go as RFA we are going to receive some draft picks (I think that Edmonton is going to offer him $4M, ref: Vanek, Penner...) and then it's Hossa or Franzen... Don't forget that Homer isn't getting any younger - we will need to replace him in couple of years, and we will need to go after DEF I think that Lidstrom will retired next season - don't know how but If we can find some room and sign Bouwemesteer it would be great. I would rather spend $10M and Bouwemesteer and Franzen than $8M on Hossa.

[This Is Bida 0]

I got to the part where the writer said "Hossa is still looked at as an outsider" or something to that effect.

Seriously? If anything I think Hossa has never felt so 'at home' in his career. If Hossa is gone next year, so be it. But truthfully, I think there's a really good chance he signs for a discount and he stays here in Detroit. He loves everything about the Wings organization and people here are dillusional enough to think Franzen will sign for 3-4 million. Not gonna happen! Truthfully, I don't see Hossa as an 'outsider', let alone going anywhere.

Who knows, maybe it's just me hoping!

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I don't think we have anything to worry about. If Hossa loves Detroit as much as he's claiming to - if he really feels this is the best organization he's ever worked for and he wants to settle down long-term - then he'll take the discount and sign a long-term contract.

In short - if Hossa wants to stay, he will.

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

I think we just need to realize Hossa is gone. Re-sign Hudz,Franz and move on..Let sammy walk, He doesn't grind could fetch a nice payday on open market. Give huds his minutes he 'deserves', Give val one more time to flourish in a scoring role and if he cant manage to find the net, then give it to leino and Val becomes traid bait.. and have our 3rd/4th lines back to your grind it out lines. Our defense will be fine in the next year, once Big Rig is healthy and in the top 6 paired with Lilly..Then the next year Lillys contract will be up, and Big Rig and Kindl will be the 5-6.

Huds - Dats - Homer

Val/Leino - Zette - Mule

Cleary - Helm - Leino/Val

Maltby- Draper - FA Signing

FA Signing

Lids - Raffi

Kronner - Stuart

Pain Train - Big Rig

-Lebda-

Id almost bet money that if we win the cup, Hossa and Kopecky leave together. Hossa will help his friend get the money, Just how his friend helped Hossa get the cup. We shall see.

[Dominator2005 558]

I think we just need to realize Hossa is gone. Re-sign Hudz,Franz and move on..Let sammy walk, He doesn't grind could fetch a nice payday on open market. Give huds his minutes he 'deserves', Give val one more time to flourish in a scoring role and if he cant manage to find the net, then give it to leino and Val becomes traid bait.. and have our 3rd/4th lines back to your grind it out lines. Our defense will be fine in the next year, once Big Rig is healthy and in the top 6 paired with Lilly..Then the next year Lillys contract will be up, and Big Rig and Kindl will be the 5-6.

Huds - Dats - Homer

Val/Leino - Zette - Mule

Cleary - Helm - Leino/Val

Maltby- Draper - FA Signing

FA Signing

Lids - Raffi

Kronner - Stuart

Pain Train - Big Rig

-Lebda-

Id almost bet money that if we win the cup, Hossa and Kopecky leave together. Hossa will help his friend get the money, Just how his friend helped Hossa get the cup. We shall see.

Some people will never realize that we have NO 4th LINE. Maltby - Draper aren't good 4th (ENERGY LINE)

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

They are locked up for another year after this, so what else you going to do with them?

[Guest mindfly]

Maltby and Draper are probably never gonna get traded due to the loyalty thing, which is a good thing most of the times but when they don't bring anything good to the team they should be realistic and ask for a trade to help the team put the BEST team on the ice, not the most experienced and loyalty team, the BEST team on the ice every night, that's what the fans are demanding, not too much to ask for imo.

[lets go pavel 2]

Maltby and Draper are probably never gonna get traded due to the loyalty thing, which is a good thing most of the times but when they don't bring anything good to the team they should be realistic and ask for a trade to help the team put the BEST team on the ice, not the most experienced and loyalty team, the BEST team on the ice every night, that's what the fans are demanding, not too much to ask for imo.

This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read. You want Maltby and Draper, out of loyalty to the Red Wings, to ASK to be traded to another team because they suck, and by leaving they would make the team that they're no longer on better??? No, definitely not too much to ask ...

Just out of curiosity, what do expect the other team to give up for 2 players who acknowledge that their presence makes a team worse?

[steveyzerman 0]

Ken. Holland.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

They are locked up for another year after this, so what else you going to do with them?

Realisitically, Maltby should be pushed to the 13th forward. I think Maltby has actually been the better player between he and Draper this season, but Draper has too much of a stake on this team to ever be demoted. Its a different story with Maltby. If the Wings can buy out Dmac, then they can scratch Maltby. Then add a vet UFA who actually has something left to offer and bring up a guy like Abdelkader. And thats just one of many options.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Maltby and Draper are probably never gonna get traded due to the loyalty thing, which is a good thing most of the times but when they don't bring anything good to the team they should be realistic and ask for a trade to help the team put the BEST team on the ice, not the most experienced and loyalty team, the BEST team on the ice every night, that's what the fans are demanding, not too much to ask for imo.

Who the hell would WANT Maltby and Draper in a trade?

[gcom007 1,465]

This may be the dumbest thing I have ever read. You want Maltby and Draper, out of loyalty to the Red Wings, to ASK to be traded to another team because they suck, and by leaving they would make the team that they're no longer on better??? No, definitely not too much to ask ...

Just out of curiosity, what do expect the other team to give up for 2 players who acknowledge that their presence makes a team worse?

Yeah, true story. They retire if anything but I'm not betting on it. I love the guys and have supported them being here for awhile, but perhaps more with Draper this year, I'm wondering if it might be getting time to hang 'em up...he's got a fairly beefy cap hit considering he's likely taking the spot of a young guy who could do more on a cheaper salary. He's hardly dead-weight, but he's not even the player who signed that deal in '07 after a strong '06/'07 season and he was about the only guy on the team that I thought had a bad playoffs.

I hate saying that though.

This is the first time I've felt like it really is time for some of these older guys to move on. McCarty's been a mess this year. Chelios has barely played. I think he might prove valuable to have around in the playoffs and I'm not pissed that anyone's here right now, but I think it's going to be hard to justify having Chelios and McCarty back next year.

If we win the Cup this year, I think it'd be reasonable if a few of these guys retired. Chelios could play in the same role for the money and be considered a playing coach of sorts, but maybe he'd like to go out a champ? Maybe McCarty as well ought to just let it go and be grateful he got to finish where he started with 1 or maybe 2 more Cups? Maybe Draper decides he'd like to go out a champ too.

I think Maltby would be nice to have around another year as he's still cheap and experience still is valuable. I'm not going to campaign for guys like Draper to leave for the same reason, but if you can pick one of the two, I take Maltby to free up cap space. We've got PK guys and solid faceoff-men.

It'll be very strange though not seeing them around once they are done. Those are the original boys who we started this train with. It's weird to think that Osgood could out last them all should Draper hang them up early. I don't know why I think he might, but I don't know. Two more years after this one? I'm sure he knows that he's been on the decline. It'll be interesting to see if anything does come of it.

[gcom007 1,465]

Realisitically, Maltby should be pushed to the 13th forward. I think Maltby has actually been the better player between he and Draper this season, but Draper has too much of a stake on this team to ever be demoted. Its a different story with Maltby. If the Wings can buy out Dmac, then they can scratch Maltby. Then add a vet UFA who actually has something left to offer and bring up a guy like Abdelkader. And thats just one of many options.

Yeah, I think Maltby's actually had a descent season all things considered. I actually wouldn't be shocked to see him open up even a bit more as the season goes on and into the playoffs. I've always felt like he's a better player than we've seen in the Babcock-era and I've seen more hints of it this year.

And Draper's Draper, what can you say? But I seriously think if we win the Cup this year, he might retire. Again, I'm not begging for it nor do I think it's a certainty, but I wouldn't be shocked to see it happen at all. He's a team-first guy and he has to know that he's lost a step these last two years and it's to the point where it might actually be relevant to suggest that even in the ever-loyal Detroit system he's taking someone's spot. And he knows how the economics work and that he's not likely playing up to his cap hit at this point all things considered. He signed that deal after a really solid year for him especially considering his age. He's clearly not that same player though.

[gcom007 1,465]

Yeah, I think Maltby's actually had a descent season all things considered. I actually wouldn't be shocked to see him open up even a bit more as the season goes on and into the playoffs. I've always felt like he's a better player than we've seen in the Babcock-era and I've seen more hints of it this year.

Like I said! Malty getting it going tonight. Look for Maltby to finish with 10-15 goals and have a strong playoffs. I'm calling it now.

[kylee 727]

I don't think we have anything to worry about. If Hossa loves Detroit as much as he's claiming to - if he really feels this is the best organization he's ever worked for and he wants to settle down long-term - then he'll take the discount and sign a long-term contract.

In short - if Hossa wants to stay, he will.

well put.

i feel it's a real possibility to have hossa stay.

if it means no franzen and no hudler, so be it. hossa is a superstar that does nothing but consistently produce.

yes, franzen is a very good scorer, and hudler is having the best year of his career, but hossa is on a whole different plane when it comes to his skill.

[TheOwl 77]

Hossa is already a multi-millionaire, lets all hope the greed won't take over. Franzen and Hudler are playing for next to nothing, and whether in Detroit or somewhere else, deserve to make some big money. In a dream world they could trade Cleary and Flipulla and sign both Franzen, Hudler and Hossa. Get those under-performing guys out of here. Turn Detroit into a European all-star team!!

Edited February 3, 2009 by TheOwl

[Jedi 1,865]

In a dream world they could trade Cleary...

No Trade Clause. I'm guessing that's why you said "dream world"?

[Ms_Hockey 0]

Hossa is already a multi-millionaire, lets all hope the greed won't take over. Franzen and Hudler are playing for next to nothing, and whether in Detroit or somewhere else, deserve to make some big money. In a dream world they could trade Cleary and Flipulla and sign both Franzen, Hudler and Hossa. Get those under-performing guys out of here. Turn Detroit into a European all-star team!!

:nonono: I love Cleary. He's SO underrated.

[gcom007 1,465]

"Hossa open to re-signing with Wings"

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=514067

Obvious, but yeah, just thought I'd post it anyways.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

"Hossa open to re-signing with Wings"

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=514067

Obvious, but yeah, just thought I'd post it anyways.

Hey, post away! It still gives us a thrill to read.