YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Its not much of a dream, a no trade clause doesn't mean a player can't be traded. A no movement clause does. If Raffy doesn't want to be moved, he can be waved. If he doesn't report to Grand Rapids he would be considered officially suspended and his cap space could be used for another player. Who said anything about Kronwall for Bouwmeester straight up? Kronwall is still a bargain and signed long term. Kronwall for a couples months of Bouwmeester and the opportunity to sign him before hes a UFA is a fair price. It actually IS a fair price, given Kronwall's contract. It might take a pick or a prospect as well. The problem is, the Wings don't have the 6M to throw at Bouwmeester either, and Detroit won't give up Kronwall for a rental. Which is too bad, because Bouwmeester would be just the guy to take over for Lidstrom when he retires. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 And again, you're not paying attention to what I'm saying about seeding and numbering - which is to say, I'm not talking about it as an indicator. I'm using it as an illustration. The talk used to put everyone's mind at ease all season has been "well, the Red Wings are still the 3rd best team in the league." What I'm saying is, thats not true. If we're 50 games into the season, and the Red Wings are having their first real slump that puts them back into 4th, 5th, or 6th position in the league, thats no different from a team that had a big slump in the first 20 games, and has since been clipping along at a great pace. In short, my point is to illustrate that while other teams may continue to IMPROVE, the Red Wings haven't. What bothers me about the past 5 games have not been the losses. What disturbs me about the past 5 games is that we HAVEN'T looked different, with the exception of our offense. Which, again, speaks to what many people have been saying all season - our offense has been able to take the heat off our goaltending and defense. If our offense is hot, and can score at will, who cares if we get 3,4, even 5 goals scored against? We can still win. What this slide has shown us is not anything new about our work ethic, our defense, or our goaltending. The only thing this slide has shown is that we are a one trick pony. Without our offense putting up 3+ goals again, we're going to have a tough time pulling out the victories. Can you really disagree with that? Thats one case where the performance AND the stats back up the logic. ...And your point about the President's Trophy is irrelevant. Because if you're winning the President's trophy, then yeah, typically that means you're better than the competition, which is what I care about. If this where a league where EVERY team relied on high scoring efforts to win games, like they used to back in the day, then I wouldn't care. Fact of the matter is, there are about 10 teams out there right now who may not have the offense that we have, but their goaltending is much stronger. They score fewer goals, but they let in fewer goals too. Detroit is no better than those teams right now - and, for the most part, they haven't been all season. That kind of play puts them in a group of about 10 teams, as opposed to the few teams in the NHL right now that have great offense, great defense, and good goaltending. I disagee. We HAVE gotten better and we are one of the top teams in the league. Look at the relevant team stats and where the teams are right now (after losing 5 straight games) winning percentage 3rd goals/game 1st goals against/game 20th 5 on 5 (GF/GA) 5th pp% 1st pk% 25th shots/game 1st shots against/game 5th faceoff % 1st Other than our PK and goals against we are in the top 5 in every catagory and the goals against is a problem on the PK not 5 on 5. And this is after losing 5 straight. Before the 5 game losing streak we were 11th in GAA which had steadily improved from 24th earlier in the year. The Wings ARE still one of the elite teams in the league. They have just had a bad run these last few games. They will snap out of it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 A lot of this team went on a much worse streak last February. Made the playoffs without any difficulty. In all likelihood, the Wings are going to have little/no trouble making the playoffs this year despite this losing streak. Everybody goes through snags, they eventually end for every team as well. Fortunately, the Wings are good enough to have it end probably sooner than later. Even if it doesn't immediately end, they are still making the playoffs. Am I the only one who isn't actually bothered by the losing streak itself, and the loss of points, as much as finding it bothersome that the Wings are playing the EXACT same hockey they have all season, in terms of work ethic, defense, and goaltending, yet are losing simply because we don't have our explosive offense intact? All this reassurance that "oh, we'll still be a top seed" or "Oh, we'll still make the playoffs" or even "Oh, we'll be back to winning in no time!" doesn't do much for me. I'm never concerned about that with the Wings. My concern is that we haven't improved over 49 games when there are plenty of things to improve on. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlameGame 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 It actually IS a fair price, given Kronwall's contract. It might take a pick or a prospect as well. The problem is, the Wings don't have the 6M to throw at Bouwmeester either, and Detroit won't give up Kronwall for a rental. Which is too bad, because Bouwmeester would be just the guy to take over for Lidstrom when he retires. For the purposes of fantasy trading, sending Kronwall and (Cleary or Flip) would give us more than enough space for Bouwmeester. Cleary's three million dollar cap hit till 2012/03 is BRUTAL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Am I the only one who isn't actually bothered by the losing streak itself, and the loss of points, as much as finding it bothersome that the Wings are playing the EXACT same hockey they have all season, in terms of work ethic, defense, and goaltending, yet are losing simply because we don't have our explosive offense intact? All this reassurance that "oh, we'll still be a top seed" or "Oh, we'll still make the playoffs" or even "Oh, we'll be back to winning in no time!" doesn't do much for me. I'm never concerned about that with the Wings. My concern is that we haven't improved over 49 games when there are plenty of things to improve on. Dude. Your issue is that we aren't better than we were? How is that even relevant? If you are playing at a level that makes you a Cup competitor, then you are one. You don't *need* to get better. Face it, whether or not we win the Cup again will depend largely on whetrher we get hot, whether the other team gets hot, and luck. When those things even out, then skill becomes a factor. And we have tons of that. Welcome to the salary cap era. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
redwing_sparty 0 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 i cheer for the wings, have since i was a kid, and i want them to win, and when they are not winning i want to know why. its not just that they are losing. its how they are losing. the powerplay doesn't move the puck the way it usually does, aka not finding open backdoors, players standing around. there are def some issues with this team. yes ur missing 40 points worth of scoring today, but we destroyed jose last season when he was with the avs. the other teams aren;t intimidated anymore, and they want to beat the wings that much more now that they know they can. i also feel like lids is showing his age. but who knowsmaybe hossa will ***** them all out and get them back on track. all i know is the goaltending looks like crap, the d looks like crap, and our once red hot offense is lukewarm at best Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Dude. Your issue is that we aren't better than we were? How is that even relevant? If you are playing at a level that makes you a Cup competitor, then you are one. You don't *need* to get better. Face it, whether or not we win the Cup again will depend largely on whetrher we get hot, whether the other team gets hot, and luck. When those things even out, then skill becomes a factor. And we have tons of that. Welcome to the salary cap era. Sigh. My issue is that there are a lot of teams as good as we are. And that there are 16 Cup competitors every year. And yes, the Wings *do* need to get better in order to have one of the best chances at the cup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Sigh. My issue is that there are a lot of teams as good as we are. And that there are 16 Cup competitors every year. And yes, the Wings *do* need to get better in order to have one of the best chances at the cup. Sigh. That can be said literally every. Single. Year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 I disagee. We HAVE gotten better and we are one of the top teams in the league. Look at the relevant team stats and where the teams are right now (after losing 5 straight games) winning percentage 3rd goals/game 1st goals against/game 20th 5 on 5 (GF/GA) 5th pp% 1st pk% 25th shots/game 1st shots against/game 5th faceoff % 1st Other than our PK and goals against we are in the top 5 in every catagory and the goals against is a problem on the PK not 5 on 5. And this is after losing 5 straight. Before the 5 game losing streak we were 11th in GAA which had steadily improved from 24th earlier in the year. The Wings ARE still one of the elite teams in the league. They have just had a bad run these last few games. They will snap out of it. Scotty Bowman once said, the best formula for finding out who the best teams in the league are is to average the ranking of your PK and your PP. The teams that have both a top PK and a top PP are the best teams, according to Bowman, a pretty smart hockey mind, don't you think? It makes sense. A good PK and a good PP requires both strong offensive talent, and a strong offensive game, but also strong defensive talent, and a strong defensive game. The most important stats you listed reflect exactly what this team is - a great, deep offensive team, but also a team that ranks in the bottom 3rd in the most important defensive categories. What happened to all the "defense wins championships" slogans thrust in the face of the offensively inclined Pens last year? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Sigh. That can be said literally every. Single. Year. Yeah. It can be said every year. But it can't be said every year that the Wings are just another one of the pack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chrisdetroit 189 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Scotty Bowman once said, the best formula for finding out who the best teams in the league are is to average the ranking of your PK and your PP. The teams that have both a top PK and a top PP are the best teams, according to Bowman, a pretty smart hockey mind, don't you think? It makes sense. A good PK and a good PP requires both strong offensive talent, and a strong offensive game, but also strong defensive talent, and a strong defensive game. The most important stats you listed reflect exactly what this team is - a great, deep offensive team, but also a team that ranks in the bottom 3rd in the most important defensive categories. What happened to all the "defense wins championships" slogans thrust in the face of the offensively inclined Pens last year? Agreed, the defense needs to step up but all is not lost. Before the 5 game losing streak we were improving. In fact in the 10 games before the streak we allowed 19 goals total. That's 1.9 GAA. So back away from the ledge. It's only 5 games. We have a very capable defense. Everybody wants to focus on the last 5 games and ignore the 10 before that. Too much pessimism in here... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
YoungGuns1340 1 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 Agreed, the defense needs to step up but all is not lost. Before the 5 game losing streak we were improving. In fact in the 10 games before the streak we allowed 19 goals total. That's 1.9 GAA. So back away from the ledge. It's only 5 games. We have a very capable defense. Everybody wants to focus on the last 5 games and ignore the 10 before that. Too much pessimism in here... My question is, which is the exception? if we've played 39 games of crappy defense and 10 games of great defense, thats pretty telling. We've been missing Stuart (is that a bad thing), and the game against CBJ where we were without both Lids and Stuart hurt us, but its possible that these 5 games are just the Wings up to their old tricks again, without the potent offense to bail them out. Those 10 games where we played great defense, you could say, is akin to a mediocre team going on a 10 game winning streak. And I should mention that when I say defense, I'm including goaltending in that. My point has remained since, basically, the start of the season: This team needs a few roster changes. Nothing huge, but an upgrade here or there and this team is a different beast altogether. Until then, I simply don't see this as a team that is in the same league as Boston and San Jose, but rather a second tier team among the likes of Calgary, Philly, and New Jersey. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wing Across The Pond 196 Report post Posted January 31, 2009 I think loosing people like Scotty Bowman and Todd McLellan had something to do with the poorer play this season. I think they should ask someone like Stevie to have a sort of unofficial role with the players much like Scotty did last year... try and get them fired up. Plus it would be great to see him more with the Wings again, not just as a suit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Heroes of Hockeytown 694 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 All this anger and negativity has manifested itself in Yzyman, again! What has science done! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kevvie 0 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 Well theres 5 in a row (SJ, PHX, CBJ, DAL, WSH). Those are all teams that could potentially be playoff foes. Is this just the mid-season hiccup because of injuries? or is this something bigger than we all think? What needs to happen to turn things around? -Line changes? -D-men? -Goalies? Whats gotta happen to end this streak of absolutly sucking? First, we kick Babs in the balls...it's gotta be his fault, right . Then we bring Ozzie and Conks together for a good old fashioned slobber knocker, because it must be their fault too. We go find all the injured players that are out and say "I'll give you something to cry about!", and smack 'em on the head :punch: . Make the defense play offense, and the offense play defense, because they are obviously not doing what they are supposed to. For good measure, we make them all wear granny panties for demoralization. Or maybe, just maybe, we hang on and keep the faith. Maybe we could believe that the Hockey Gods will again smile on Hockeytown. If we could just go without knee jerk reactions and let them find a solution and work it out....it might get worked out! The season is not lost, people! ...just my opinion... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 Here's how to fix the team... Fire Brad McCrimmon- The Dick Smack Mike Babcock in the head with a two by four and ask him why the hell he screwed up the lines this year Yell at the defense men for throwing the puck up the boards instead of skating it out Throw Osgood in the minors Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmstrom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brett 1,029 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 (edited) id like to see brad mc crimmon gone id also like to see 40 13 96 id like to see lenio stay flip gone downey up abdelkader stay maybe bring up errikson lots of PK practice edit..id like to see helm too Edited February 1, 2009 by brett Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
xBrave_Heartx 0 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 We've yet to find lines that click.. is one of the main problems. We get caught deep in the offensive zone alot, Which puts added pressure onto our D and Goaltending.. Which leads to more goals. We need more Meat and Potatoes and less fancy pants stuff.. Pucks on net, get the rebounds. put them back on net.. We need intensity out of our team.. If your not putting pucks on net, You need to be playing good defense, tight stick/body checks. I've said it before on different boards, Datsyuk will make anyone better because he's the perfect mix of pass:shoot, he has great vision. Zette, Isn't the same, He shoots.. and shoots.. He hasn't made his linemates better, the way dats can. Got to find out a way to get Val going, If we cant do it by the trade deadline, I'd almost think about putting him on the market. He does nothing that guys like Helm/Abdelkader cant do. Only thing he has going is his playoff experience. Overall, we just need to win. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cusimano_brothers 1,655 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 (616) 774-4585. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt. Angry 23 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 I think that the Wings are pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. They are resting themselves. A lot of the injuries being reported are not real, they are just a ruse to get certain players even more rest. The players and coaches are giggling amongst themselves, knowing that at the right time, the well-rested team will suddenly spring to life and bring the cup to Detroit once again. Maybe this isn't really so, but I feel better believing it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 Yeah. It can be said every year. But it can't be said every year that the Wings are just another one of the pack. If by "pack" you mean "one of the best 4 teams in the league, hands down", then sure. You are right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 We all know Todd McClellan was a big lose. He worked with special teams play...PK and PP. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DatsyukianDeak 0 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 I think that the Wings are pulling the wool over everybody's eyes. They are resting themselves. A lot of the injuries being reported are not real, they are just a ruse to get certain players even more rest. The players and coaches are giggling amongst themselves, knowing that at the right time, the well-rested team will suddenly spring to life and bring the cup to Detroit once again. Maybe this isn't really so, but I feel better believing it. Love the theory, check this we rest the top players to get them better for the playoffs, bring up the young guys to see what we have to do for next year, its a great plan that I would not expect to be true but good thought Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Winged_Wheeler 3 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 Professional hockey players don't need rest. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thedisappearer 291 Report post Posted February 1, 2009 Professional hockey players don't need rest. Lids said he needed rest over the all star break, so FAIL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
