2/15 GDT: Avalanche 6, Red Wings 5 (SO)

[Vladifan 680]

I'm ready to bet Conklin that we would have won with my right ball in net tonight.

...Just throwing this in for what it's worth. Did you see the replay of the SO winning goal by the Avs in our recent game with them? Did you see who was in net? I'm not sure but it didn't look like Oz's number.

Just throwing that in...

[MTU_Huskies963 398]

Neither right now.

I'd bet you $10,000 that Conklin would fail too. He will fail. 100%.

Conklin might be more overrated than Legace was right now. It's really unbelievable. I think he's done a fine job this year, but great? Not a chance in hell. No way. He's had plenty of shaky starts as well. He's given up 3+ goals in more games than he's given up 2 or less. He's also got a comparable W-L record to Osgood's and similar 2009 stats. This is Manny Legace all over again...

Are you a conklin hater or something seriously.... If you actually look at Conklin's stats from last year he was 2nd in SV% .923 right behind Dan Ellis and was middle in the league with a GAA of 2.51. Conklin is actually a decent goal tender, and has been the past 2 years.

[TheOwl 77]

his year you have the defending Cup winner and a guy with 5 minutes of playoff experience. And if Ty Conklin's such a great goalie, why is his W-L record basically the same as Osgood's?

W-L is meaningless. All it means is when Osgood is playing, the forwards have to score more goals or they'll lose. Save% is the measure of the quality of a goaltender. Osgood is the worst in the league. The W-L ratio is meaningless, and is a measure of how well the team is playing. Save% is a measure of how well the goalie is playing. Now please, explain how Osgood has even played close to as good as Conks. Now remember, the stats show Ozzy as the worst, by far, goalie in the league. Get to work.

Edited February 16, 2009 by TheOwl

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

It's all Ozzie's fault that people on this board are being rude to each other.

Look what he's done to us because of his s***ty play.

[Vladifan 680]

Everyone here knows that the fans have no faith in Osgood. The coaches and the other players will "TELL" you that they still believe in Ozzie and that they need to work hard while he is in net. They may say that to the media and say it publicly. But you know as well as I do that the players and coaches are losing faith in him.

We take the lead into the period, 3-2, we have leads of 4-3 and 5-4 against the worst team in the western conference.

And they beat us twice before in this season. Who was in net then? I don't really know.

Also - how many blocked shots did we have to their blocked shots? I'm curious about that one, too.

I also don't know s*** about what you think you know about what the players and coaches would say about Oz. Sorry 'bout that.

I DO know the Avs were 8-0 in OT's. Or was it in shootouts? Not sure about that....

[Vladifan 680]

Just watching this game early on was a good indicator the Wings weren't bringing it today. It took a spat of power-plays in the second period to even get the juices flowing.

The effort today, from goal on out, was pathetically bad. The only guy that seemed to be giving a full effort today was Helm.

Definitely a phone-it-in effort.

WHAAAT? A voice of reason?!

[GoWings1905 2,694]

W-L is meaningless. All it means is when Osgood is playing, the forwards have to score more goals or they'll lose. Save% is the measure of the quality of a goaltender. Osgood is the worst in the league. The W-L ratio is meaningless, and is a measure of how well the team is playing. Save% is a measure of how well the goalie is playing. Now please, explain how Osgood has even played close to as good as Conks. Now remember, the stats show Ozzy as the worst, by far, goalie in the league. Get to work.

You clearly hate Ozzie dude. All of us really, really get it by now. Do you ever make one single post not related to Ozzie?

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Save% is the measure of the quality of a goaltender.

It is, like virtually any other stat, a team stat. The Wings have, historically, limited shots against. Inevitably they still surrender a few good chances and they are converted into goals, lowering any netminder's SV%, but still ultimately limiting goals against. This hasn't been the case this season with regards to lowering good scoring chances, but no matter.

In my mind, the only thing these stats are useful for is trying to gauge the play of guys we don't watch night in and night out. Since we have the advantage of doing that Ozzie and Conks, we can determine their play a lot more accurately. And in doing that, here's what I've observed: Ozzie has struggled in many of his games, punctuated by a good effort here and there; Conklin has struggled in many of his games, punctuated by a really great game here and there. Ty impressed me for a brief stretch around the new year but overall I'm not extremely confident in either at this point.

Edited February 16, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[I Red Wings I 40]

Just got back from the game and it looks like all the fingers are pointed at Osgoods direction. I thought Detroit looked great with little mistakes and only four penalty minutes, shots were 45-28. Osgood second guesses himself, I don't know who he's trying to kid. Everytime Colorado was in Detroits end, everyone in the crowd was nervous that he'd do something stupid.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Just got back from the game and it looks like all the fingers are pointed at Osgoods direction. I thought Detroit looked great with little mistakes and only four penalty minutes, shots were 45-28. Osgood second guesses himself, I don't know who he's trying to kid. Everytime Colorado was in Detroits end, everyone in the crowd was nervous that he'd do something stupid.

Speaking of your avatar, I have SOYCD on right now.

[I Red Wings I 40]

Speaking of your avatar, I have SOYCD on right now.

Good song

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Everyone wants Conklin to start in the playoffs and that's fine and dandy. Okay. Say we go ahead and do that. Then say Conks ******* s***s the bed. Which is a possibility, no matter who is the goalie. Then what will all you braying donkeys want Babcock to do?

They'll want Babcock fired and Datsyuk and Zetterberg sent off to the gulag.

[Electrophile 3,554]

Good song

True dat. I always enjoy finding Floyd fans no matter what message board I'm on.....it's like finding a little slice of sanity in an otherwise crowded asylum.

[Electrophile 3,554]

They'll want Babcock fired and Datsyuk and Zetterberg sent off to the gulag.

LOL. You joke, but shouldn't that be a serious consideration? I mean, everyone here who thinks Osgood should be traded for a used jock and some Ben-*** thinks Conklin would be 23987439879834738 times preferable in the playoffs. Okay, they're entitled to think that way. However, not one of those people has EVER suggested what the team should do in the event Conklin can't hack it. Which again, is entirely possible, given that there are two possible outcomes for any goalie. It's like they think Conklin will turn into Jacques Plante or something and we'll coast to another Cup, 16-0.

To me, if you want to take the drastic step of putting the back-up in the starting role for the playoffs, you need to also say what the contingency plan is should that back-up f*** up. Otherwise the suggestion reeks of reactionary bulls*** with no real basis in reality.

You want Osgood traded/sent down/put on waivers, you want Conklin to start the rest of the season (judging from poll results), but you don't bother hypothesizing about what to do if Conklin doesn't give you exactly what you want in return.

[Outsider 42]

Last season Osgood and Hasek had extremely similar, league leading stats. Hasek never was absolutely horrible like osgood has been this season. They're two similar situations with completely different circumstances. Conklin's stats are head and shoulder's over Osgood's this year. In 07/08, Osgood's stats were never head and shoulder's above Hasek's.

Do you see what I'm saying or should I repeat the same thing in different ways over and over?

Ummm.....

Actually, through October and November, Hasek was riding a GAA of 3.35 and SVP of .864.

Babcock's response?

Play him. Play him more, in order to get him going. It worked.

That's what you have to do with your Starting goaltender. You've got to allow him to play through it.

That's all anyone here is advocating.

[TheOwl 77]

Ummm.....

Actually, through October and November, Hasek was riding a GAA of 3.35 and SVP of .864.

Babcock's response?

Play him. Play him more, in order to get him going. It worked.

That's what you have to do with your Starting goaltender. You've got to allow him to play through it.

That's all anyone here is advocating.

Yes, but it's now February, what's next? March? And Hasek was one of the greatest goaltenders of all time, he kind of turned it around. Will Osgood? All I'm saying is, get a 3rd goalie going, either a GR guy, or a cheap guy at the deadline if Osgood doesn't turn it around (likely) or Conklin struggles (much less likely).

Edited February 16, 2009 by TheOwl

[Outsider 42]

Yes, but it's now February, what's next? March? And Hasek was one of the greatest goaltenders of all time, he kind of turned it around. Will Osgood? All I'm saying is, get a 3rd goalie going, either a GR guy, or a cheap guy at the deadline if Osgood doesn't turn it around (likely) or Conklin struggles (much less likely).

A third goalie? As in Larsson or Howard?

Good idea. Brilliant, in fact.

In essence you take even more playing time away from your veteran Starter, playing time that would be best served in getting his game ramped up.

Regardless....

You give less ice-time to Osgood, in favor Ty Conklin. And you give the little that's left to one of Howard/Larrson.

What happens when, (yes, I said when), Conklin reminds everyone in Detroit exactly why he has been/will always be nothing more than a serviceable BACK UP goaltender?

Then, you get to choose between a raw rookie, or a veteran who's struggled all year, and didn't get the opportunity down the stretch to ramp up his Game for the Play Offs.

What's your contingency plan? What's "Option B"?

Because what you're asking for, nay.....what you're begging for.....is Manny Legace, v 2.1.

Every single comment/observation being made about Conklin, now, was made about Legace in the past. And Legace at least had a decent HISTORY, unlike Conklin. For cripes sake, until last year, the guy couldn't even keep a job as an NHL BACK UP.

Sooner or later, at the age of these two goaltenders, (Osgood and Conklin), they WILL revert to their normal form/playing level.

Osgood as a solid, consistent Starter and Conklin as a career back up.

What do you do then?

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Why do the wings always play terrible against bad teams? Good thing we don't play crappy teams like Colorado in the playoffs, we'd be out in 5 games. Give them a few more key injuries and they'd sweep us, Lappy with 9 goals and a hat trick in the final game.

You must have missed the PO series last year. A team like that is no match for us in the POs - although it is baffling to me that we don't play a little better vs. them during the regular season. They won't even make the POs so it's a mute point. Funny how we won 9 in a row vs them, then suddenly they win a few and now they "own" us.

[mackel 768]

You clearly hate Ozzie dude. All of us really, really get it by now. Do you ever make one single post not related to Ozzie?

Its not hate its reality... Osgood has 3 cups, 2 of which he was the starter on the team... in both cases he was on a loaded team.

He's at best an average goalie.

[clutchngrab 12]

It's not at all funny. Imagine if someone 'joked' like that about Dom. Posters on these boards are a bunch of insensitive pieces of s***. Plain and simple. There's a line when bashing players and he beyond crossed it.

fan is short for fanatic. Don't be gett'in all pc now.

[clutchngrab 12]

I'm ready to bet my right ball that we would have won with Conklin in the net tonight.

I'll raise your right ball and throw in my left nut

[mackel 768]

The best option would be to send him to GR for a some conditioning and if we're lucky some bottom feeder team will pluck this bottom feeder goalie off waivers, maybe they'll be blinded by his inflated career stats like many of the fans on the boards.

Atleast that way we'll save half of his salary for the next couple of seasons... so we can put it to use on a player that may contribute now and in the future as opposed to last spring, which, by the way is in the past.

[Yak19 303]

Why cant Conklin handle the playoffs? Oh yea i forgot no goalie without playoff experience has ever done well in the post season, Cam Ward, Giguere, Dan Ellis, Kiprussoff, etc. Even the goalies that didn't win it all were stellar, it was the teams that were sub-par. So if Columbus makes the playoffs they should try to get someone instead of Steve Mason because of his lack of experience? Maybe they can get Ron Tugnutt or wait maybe they can trade him up for Lalime, better yet maybe Martin Gerber with all that experience of his. Sometimes you just need that shot and right now Conklin is better. Whether people want to admit it or not if the playoffs started tomrw you would all be more confident with Conklin in net over Ozzie.

[Z and D for the C 712]

We should ride osgood for 5 or so more games, if he doesn't show improvement then we need to throw all our eggs in the conklin basket. If conklin fails, god help us.

[ben_usmc 253]

All of Ozzy's defenders say he will play out of it. Did Hasek last year? Nope, then everyone said Ozzy couldn't lead us to a cup, just like the Ozzy defenders this year say Conklin can't lead us. Listen Ozzy is a great guy and I would love for him to be winning because all I want to do is see the Wings win the cup. But he looks like he doesn't have it anymore, if anything I'd like to see how Howard would do. I doubt you could get anything for Ozzy besides you know the wings are loyal to a fault(which is why people like Hossa want to be here.) So no I don't think we get rid of Ozzy but have Conklin and Howard play for a while, show Ozzy he isn't getting a free pass.

Edited February 16, 2009 by ben_usmc