Hossa Fight! :) Video

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Give me 1 or 2 guys that can play a regular shift and also fight. What the f*** is the problem with that for some people?

Exactly- look at our 4th line... Kopecky is our enforcer (riiiiight)... he doesn't belong in the NHL PERIOD!

Oh, and for the idiotic statement of the person that said 'name a time a fight prevented an injury'... HUH!? How would you know that, that would be psychic reading... An injury that didn't happen would never be known, because it didn't happen... Wow.

I DO know times where an injury was retributed and probably will be thought of again the following year!

Here you go-

[Opie 308]

Remember Joe Thornton got his jaw broken in a fight. That's the point I am trying to make. People are creaming in their pants when Hossa throws punches. Myself, I am cringing, hoping he doesn't get hurt. And i'll bet anything Ken Holland was too.

What is wrong with wanting Jamal Mayers on your team?

What is wrong with wanting David Clarkson on your team?

Can the ***** crowd around here honestly tell me they would mind having David Clarkson on the squad versus, say.....Maltby or Helm or Kopecky?

I can't speak for all the pro fighting crowd around here but give me a guy like Clarkson, Ryan Clowe, Paul Gaustad any day of the week just to add some literal punch to the lineup.

I don't think that's asking too much. I don't think that's wanting a team of goons. I don't think that means team chemistry will implode. And it sure as hell doesn't mean that I want Andrew Peters or someone like him.

Give me 1 or 2 guys that can play a regular shift and also fight. What the f*** is the problem with that for some people?

GS&T,

Let me explain it from my side, your last sentence is exactly what I would want in a fighter.

The problem with this argument is that it is either all or nothing for both sides, according to the other side. (Sorry if that is confusing)

Pro figthing thinks those of us that don't want Downey in the line up is because we are soft, *****, weak, like Euro soft hockey, etc.....

The Anti Fighting crowd thinks all the fighting crowd wants is a team full of goons.

Look instead of celebrating the fact that Hossa won a fight we are all in here arguing again about the importance of fighting.

My question is what happens to the argument if the Wings win the cup this year?

Then each of the crowds will have their poster team, the fighting crowd will have the cup winning ducks and the anti crowd will have the cup winning wings.

The argument will get worse not better.

You said Clowe up above, I would gladly take him Lucic, but as we have all already said those players are few and far between. Here is where the gripe begins, we (anti-fighting) would rather not grab a fighter in that case, and you (fighting crowd) think anything is better than nothing.

I just care about the W at the end of the day. If it is a bunch of Mike Ricci specialties I don't care, if it is Dats and Z and Hossa on break aways all day making the goalie look foolish, I don't care, if the wings break 4 noses and knock out 6 of the opponents teeth I don't care as long as it is a W!

Some people won't be happy with a W even a 6-2 drubbing that involved a fight, still not enough for some people, this thread is proof of it!

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Hossa wasn't fighting because there wasn't an enforcer to do it for him, he was just pissed. It's not like it's something he makes a habit of. He has been in a grand total of four fights now, a pair with Eric Boulton on his team.

Yah, he just had a bad day and decided to fight. Lol, dumb. Not quite, genius, it's more to do with the fact that we were up 4 goals late in the game and the players were getting run nonstop. He was next with a front forearm. Watch the replays.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Calm down, Sally.

My point is, I care if they win. Anything else is secondary. We obviously have put a system in place that wins, and that systems doesn't value enforcers. If we add enforcers, we lose what the system needs- people with solid puck possession skills. The players that are physical and have soft hands cost too much to add to our team. I trust the system.

I am amazed by this line of thinking. And please stop using the term enforcers. I am not a pro enforcer person so don't please don't confuse me with some other board members

I have never once asked for an enforcer. There are guys out there with good size, good skating skills and can take a regular shift. Oh, and they can drop the gloves and go if need be.

Would I gladly get rid of Kopecky, Chelios, Lebda, Lilja and even Helm for any of the following:

Mike Brown

Aaron Voros

Eric Nystrom

Craig Weller

Matt Bradley

Dan Hinote

Travis Moen

Bryce Salvador

Paul Gaustad

Adam Hall

Ethan Moreau

Ole Toleffson

You bet your ass I would. And most of these guys have fewer than 5 majors on the season.

For me it isn't about preventing cheap shots or injuries. I don't see how that is provable.

It is also not about gooning it up.

It just boils down to every once in awhile some stuff happens in a game and I am sick and tired of seeing guys like Hossa, Cleary, Sammy and Franzen getting shoved around and challenged. I'd like us to have somebody who would accept a challenge versus getting punked or being forced to have a superstar like Hossa do the fighting.

Can anybody here honestly tell me they wouldn't trade Kopecky in a heartbeat for David Clarkson or Paul Gaustad or Aaron Voros?

The Wings would not be hindered by adding a regular shift player who can fight. That's just my opinion.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

You said Clowe up above, I would gladly take him Lucic, but as we have all already said those players are few and far between. Here is where the gripe begins, we (anti-fighting) would rather not grab a fighter in that case, and you (fighting crowd) think anything is better than nothing.

I actually agree with Opie on something. I don't care if it's an enforcer that just can fight. A Lucic would be excellent, he can fight and play. Wonderful. Gordie Howe could do that too, it's nothing new.

I will miss it, but I do think the days of Derek Booggards and premeditated fights are near over.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yah, he just had a bad day and decided to fight. Lol, dumb. Not quite, genius, it's more to do with the fact that we were up 4 goals late in the game and the players were getting run nonstop. He was next with a front forearm. Watch the replays.

He and Suter skated into each other, it was just time to go. Occasionally finesse guys fight, bit whoop. Stevie fought a couple times with Probert on the team; does that mean Bob wasn't doing his job? Of course not.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I am amazed by this line of thinking. And please stop using the term enforcers. I am not a pro enforcer person so don't please don't confuse me with some other board members

I have never once asked for an enforcer. There are guys out there with good size, good skating skills and can take a regular shift. Oh, and they can drop the gloves and go if need be.

Would I gladly get rid of Kopecky, Chelios, Lebda, Lilja and even Helm for any of the following:

Mike Brown

Aaron Voros

Eric Nystrom

Craig Weller

Matt Bradley

Dan Hinote

Travis Moen

Bryce Salvador

Paul Gaustad

Adam Hall

Ethan Moreau

Ole Toleffson

You bet your ass I would. And most of these guys have fewer than 5 majors on the season.

For me it isn't about preventing cheap shots or injuries. I don't see how that is provable.

It is also not about gooning it up.

It just boils down to every once in awhile some stuff happens in a game and I am sick and tired of seeing guys like Hossa, Cleary, Sammy and Franzen getting shoved around and challenged. I'd like us to have somebody who would accept a challenge versus getting punked or being forced to have a superstar like Hossa do the fighting.

Can anybody here honestly tell me they wouldn't trade Kopecky in a heartbeat for David Clarkson or Paul Gaustad or Aaron Voros?

The Wings would not be hindered by adding a regular shift player who can fight. That's just my opinion.

PERFECT! Add even Brendan Shanahan to that list.

People must think I'm just goon crazy... I'm not, I prefer winning 1st and respectability of the opponent when the game is out of hand 2nd. A player that can drop the gloves WHEN NEEDED is what I propose.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

He and Suter skated into each other, it was just time to go. Occasionally finesse guys fight, bit whoop. Stevie fought a couple times with Probert on the team; does that mean Bob wasn't doing his job? Of course not.

You honestly think 1988 hockey was the same as now? Everyone fought then, the game has evolved, apparently your thinking has not.

[Vladifan 680]

Seriously? He just got back from a hand injury and you want him to drop the gloves? Seriously?

Thank you and excellent point.

Meanwhile, as long as the Wings have a whole lotta European players on their roster, fighting is not going to be a major part of their game. Period. Instead, we have guys like Holmstrom who takes a beating every night and comes back for more. Even now when he's probably still in pain he wants to get back on the ice for more. We have Kronwall who might just turn into another Konstantinov with his most timely hits. We have big man Franzen who holds his own ANYwhere on the ice and has Datsyuk-like hands when it comes to scoring. We have Hossa, who no doubt never thought to tie down his jersey because he knows he's not a fighter but when Suter tried to ram him, he took him on. Even Mickey talked about one of the Olympic games where the Russians made the Canadians look reeeeally bad because of their speed and agility. Meanwhile, our players do the tough-guy stuff that is necessary to win games. What the hell more do we want?

Sure, some fights are necessary, but sometimes they're just macho maneuverings for the thrill of blood-thirsty fans. The only thing fighting does is give you splinters while taking away points. SEE: The Anaheim Ducks.

And speaking of them, if our boyz keep up their good work on the PP, them Ducks are definitely gonna be sittin' ones.

[Opie 308]

Warning this post not safe for children:

C- Opie, who knows little, but thinks he does made the point that you can't prove the theory of people showing up to the Joe. If I'm ONE small sampling, I have sold my Wings tickets I have gotten this year as of late. It's not fun for me to watch guys like Hudler get run into the boards nightly. So, if I count, I sell my tickets (3rd row the last seats) for LESS than face value. I want people in the Joe, period, but it troubles me to watch us get beaten.

The opies, the dissapears, and people like that I have trouble believing were hockey fans before the Stanley Cup parade.

This is the last time I respond to you, if you have ******* problem with the type of hockey I like too ******* bad!

I have a difference of opinion with almost everyone on this board, you want to claim I know nothing than instead of throwing your piece of s*** opinion out there ever time try some ******* facts. Where you able to sell your tickets, yes, well then guess what jack ass you just proved your own point wrong, because you don't want to go doesn't mean others don't.

You really honestly think in an economy like this the only reason the seats are empty is fighting, you sir are a tool, and a ****** bag!

You want to keep guessing at how long I have been a fan, because I will tell you this much you are way off!

Take your I am always right holy than thou attitude and shove it straight up your ass.

You don't like the way the wings have been winning over the past 15 years, well guess what pal, it is not changing any time soon, get used to it, cry about it, build a ******* bridge and then get over it.

I have said this 85 ******* times how in the hell you are allowed to post here when all you do is flame is beyond me.

Don't bother replying I won't read it!!

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

You honestly think 1988 hockey was the same as now? Everyone fought then, the game has evolved, apparently your thinking has not.

1993 was the year I was referring to, but no matter. My point was this: the guy I quoted inferred that we should get an enforcer because Hossa fought a guy. But, Hossa has fought guys with an enforcer on his team. Sometimes a finesse guy fights, it just happens.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Warning this post not safe for children:

This is the last time I respond to you, if you have ******* problem with the type of hockey I like too ******* bad!

I have a difference of opinion with almost everyone on this board, you want to claim I know nothing than instead of throwing your piece of s*** opinion out there ever time try some ******* facts. Where you able to sell your tickets, yes, well then guess what jack ass you just proved your own point wrong, because you don't want to go doesn't mean others don't.

You really honestly think in an economy like this the only reason the seats are empty is fighting, you sir are a tool, and a ****** bag!

You want to keep guessing at how long I have been a fan, because I will tell you this much you are way off!

Take your I am always right holy than thou attitude and shove it straight up your ass.

You don't like the way the wings have been winning over the past 15 years, well guess what pal, it is not changing any time soon, get used to it, cry about it, build a ******* bridge and then get over it.

I have said this 85 ******* times how in the hell you are allowed to post here when all you do is flame is beyond me.

Don't bother replying I won't read it!!

Funny... I got banned from this board for 10 days for being negative. lol.

Anyways, feel better Opie? lol... that was terrific; made my day! I didn't think people got upset over forums.

You can always close your computer or...

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Opie,

I am with you. Like I mentioned above, people tend to take this argument to the extremes. It's ridiculous and doesn't need to go there.

I know where you stand on this position and I concur for the most part. Would love to have a guy like Clowe or Lucic. But they are hard to find.

However, there are lots and lots of players out there who are regular contributors to their teams, take regular shifts, contribute in more ways than just the scoreboard and can also fight.

You take a guy like Eric Nystrom, makes about the same money as Kopecky but won't hesitate to defend himself or his teammates. He plays a regular shift for Calgary.

Look at Cody McCleod. Here's a guy with 12 goals this year, 116 PIM's and makes LESS money than Kopecky.

BJ Crombeen $550,000, 10 goals, 17 points, 125 PIM's.

Adam Mair

Aaron Asham

The list goes on and on. There are plenty of inexpensive guys around the league that could add a little jam to our lineup.

Honestly, would you take Kopecky or Cody McCleod? Or Kopecky vs BJ Crombeen

Seriously, Kopecky, for as big a body he is, is about as effective as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. If Kopa never played another game for the Wings would anyone really miss his 2 or 3 goals a year and what, 10 points to go along with his pathetic excuse for body checking for a guy his size?

The list goes on and on. There are plenty of guys out there

[Vladifan 680]

Are you serious?

THIS IS HOCKEY... Don't you read the cliche' bumper stickers, "give blood play hockey". I think you were raised on figure skating and are having some internal issues, Electrophile, wow... horrible post.

"Raised on figure skating?" ...."Internal issues"? Why the putdowns? You cannot 'win' that way because those are not valid arguments. They're merely attacks on one's point of view.

Meanwhile, could somebody tell me where I might find these stats...How the ratio of a team's penalty minutes compares to their standings in their division/ the league? Or feel free to input them on this thread?

Thanks.

[esteef 2,679]

Wait, I thought we didn't need someone to fight because star players were never challenged? What happened? I don't get it?

If Hossa got the s*** kicked out of him, as he should have against Suter, this thread would have a much different tone. Instead it's the same old "fighting doesn't score" bulls***.

Once again, team toughness, momentum and intimidation don't have stats.

esteef

[shutoutking 0]

1. LOL @ this board being non-censored and the rampant obscenities. Not necessarily complaining, its a great board and I much prefer private-run ones than the Preds board that censors everything, ass, hell, you name it, and you'll get banned or suspended at the drop of a hat.

2. I'm going to turn off my Preds homerism here for a minute and give an objective view of the fight. I see quite a bit more fighting than you guys do, and I honestly think, objectively, that Suter was just being kind to Hossa. He didn't go after any big haymakers, just kinda danced around and finally ended up on top. It appeared he was in control the whole time. The game was clearly out of hand, and Hoss is a premier offensive talent in the league, and plus Suter is known as a nicer guy. On the other hand, I have seen Ryan clearly whip other defensemen in the NHL in defense of the goalie or what have you. I really think Hoss wouldn't have been so quick to dance if it was Weber or Klein. Just my 0.02.

[Vladifan 680]

Calm down, Sally.

My point is, I care if they win. Anything else is secondary. We obviously have put a system in place that wins, and that systems doesn't value enforcers. If we add enforcers, we lose what the system needs- people with solid puck possession skills. The players that are physical and have soft hands cost too much to add to our team. I trust the system.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Why the putdowns? You cannot 'win' that way because those are not valid arguments. They're merely attacks on one's point of view.

No sir,

THIS IS A PERSONAL ATTACK... Opie on me (although humorous albeit it!)-

Opie said:

You really honestly think in an economy like this the only reason the seats are empty is fighting, you sir are a tool, and a ****** bag!

You want to keep guessing at how long I have been a fan, because I will tell you this much you are way off!

Take your I am always right holy than thou attitude and shove it straight up your ass.

You don't like the way the wings have been winning over the past 15 years, well guess what pal, it is not changing any time soon, get used to it, cry about it, build a ******* bridge and then get over it.

I have said this 85 ******* times how in the hell you are allowed to post here when all you do is flame is beyond me.

Don't bother replying I won't read it!!

[Zion 93]

Whoever the moron was (not worth looking up the name) who said Franzen should fight should turn in their driver's license. I don't want this kind of person behind the wheel or a voting booth.

Stop texting while you're at it. You've lost McDonald's Player of the Game privileges, too.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

1. LOL @ this board being non-censored and the rampant obscenities. Not necessarily complaining, its a great board and I much prefer private-run ones than the Preds board that censors everything, ass, hell, you name it, and you'll get banned or suspended at the drop of a hat.

This is incorrect, IT IS CENSORED, but just to those that are not on the hit list of cencorship. I've been banned and never once will you see me swear on this board. Ever. However, I notice a strong correlation between being a donor and not being banned. Just my two cents.

[Vladifan 680]

No, you don't just want some one to stand up, other wise the 6-8 fights, however many of them, would be enough. Which situations should the Wings this year have fought some one over. Lebda, that was retaliation for his hard hit, he should have been ready for that, after all isn't that what you want a fighter for, retaliation/revenge/retribution?

Also Hossa standing up would be enough. YOU WANT FIGHTING, lots of it, just admit, it is ok really. I like fighting, but I want a fighter on my team who can do more than an aged D-mac and a 4 minute a night Aaron Downey can do. I respect Downey a lot more than I did last year, but lets be honest this team wins on offense most nights and offense alone. You take out one skater even Kopecky, and now you have to have people playing extra minutes every night to cover for the fact Downey can not skate from his own blue line to center ice with the puck on his stick.

Not sure if you can prove this theory, in order to do so you would have to take this years Wings and turn them into the Ducks by next season and see if it changes the results, I will tell you this much a fight in any sport will get people out of their seats, we pretend to be a peaceful nation but we love our violence as much as the next. Hell Pre-season baseball fights get people out of their seats and most of the time during those games everyone is asleep!

But I have a hard time buying that the Joe would be sold out on all nights in this market where the auto industry is laying off more people than the banks are getting one dollar bills from the gov't. Your theory is a thinly veiled attempt at making a point no one can argue with because it is both indisputable and unprovable at the same time!

Count 'em....TWO great posts. Thanks for expressing it for some of the rest of us too.

[Mors 201]

Hossa should never be put in the position where he has no other choice but to fight, 'cause no one else is going to stand up for the team. Kopecky, Draper and Maltby all need to go. Draper is -14 now for christ sake. I think this team has enough skill to allow for 1 player on the 4th line who can actually fight, I'm not saying he has to be a good or an enforcer, just someone that can throwdown occasionally...kinda like Drake did last year.

[Datsyerberger 279]

1. LOL @ this board being non-censored and the rampant obscenities. Not necessarily complaining, its a great board and I much prefer private-run ones than the Preds board that censors everything, ass, hell, you name it, and you'll get banned or suspended at the drop of a hat.

2. I'm going to turn off my Preds homerism here for a minute and give an objective view of the fight. I see quite a bit more fighting than you guys do, and I honestly think, objectively, that Suter was just being kind to Hossa. He didn't go after any big haymakers, just kinda danced around and finally ended up on top. It appeared he was in control the whole time. The game was clearly out of hand, and Hoss is a premier offensive talent in the league, and plus Suter is known as a nicer guy. On the other hand, I have seen Ryan clearly whip other defensemen in the NHL in defense of the goalie or what have you. I really think Hoss wouldn't have been so quick to dance if it was Weber or Klein. Just my 0.02.

Just to be a Wings homer for a moment in return, Kopecky clearly had Weber under control

Seriously though, while I don't know if your post is right or not, Suter is that sort of respectful player so that is possible. On the other hand, don't forget Hossa is a large, pretty strong dude, and he has been known to drop the gloves occasionally.

[esteef 2,679]

2. I'm going to turn off my Preds homerism here for a minute and give an objective view of the fight. I see quite a bit more fighting than you guys do, and I honestly think, objectively, that Suter was just being kind to Hossa. He didn't go after any big haymakers, just kinda danced around and finally ended up on top. It appeared he was in control the whole time. The game was clearly out of hand, and Hoss is a premier offensive talent in the league, and plus Suter is known as a nicer guy. On the other hand, I have seen Ryan clearly whip other defensemen in the NHL in defense of the goalie or what have you. I really think Hoss wouldn't have been so quick to dance if it was Weber or Klein. Just my 0.02.

Thanks for being so "objective". So Suter didn't try for the knock-out punch early in the fight that Hossa blocked with his own swing? Watch it again man. And Suter wasn't "in control" at all, especially with Hossa's jersey completely off, until the end when Hossa lost his balance. But thanks for not being a "homer".

esteef

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Hossa should never be put in the position where he has no other choice but to fight, 'cause no one else is going to stand up for the team. Kopecky, Draper and Maltby all need to go. Draper is -14 now for christ sake. I think this team has enough skill to allow for 1 player on the 4th line who can actually fight, I'm not saying he has to be a good or an enforcer, just someone that can throwdown occasionally...kinda like Drake did last year.

Great post!