Hossa Fight! :) Video

[Datsyerberger 279]

Hossa should never be put in the position where he has no other choice but to fight, 'cause no one else is going to stand up for the team. Kopecky, Draper and Maltby all need to go. Draper is -14 now for christ sake. I think this team has enough skill to allow for 1 player on the 4th line who can actually fight, I'm not saying he has to be a good or an enforcer, just someone that can throwdown occasionally...kinda like Drake did last year.

His line was the one that was on the ice at the moment, not the 'tough-guy' line. And he decided to go. You'll see no problems with that from me.

In case some of you've forgotten, Gordie Howe was one of our star forwards and dropping the mitts was part of his game. Yea, yea, I know, it's a long time ago, but how about a recent example? Iginla, anyone?

I love a good hockey fight when it pops up (for good reasons! Not for every other good clean hit like nowadays). I'm no 'pro-enforcer' guy. I could do without hired goons, personally. But a skilled 3rd line power forward that can fight? A star player that likes to drop the mitts every now and then? A good physical d-man that'll occasionally get in a slugging fest? Sure thing.

[Vladifan 680]

GS&T,

Let me explain it from my side, your last sentence is exactly what I would want in a fighter.

The problem with this argument is that it is either all or nothing for both sides, according to the other side. (Sorry if that is confusing)

Pro figthing thinks those of us that don't want Downey in the line up is because we are soft, *****, weak, like Euro soft hockey, etc.....

The Anti Fighting crowd thinks all the fighting crowd wants is a team full of goons.

Look instead of celebrating the fact that Hossa won a fight we are all in here arguing again about the importance of fighting.

My question is what happens to the argument if the Wings win the cup this year?

Then each of the crowds will have their poster team, the fighting crowd will have the cup winning ducks and the anti crowd will have the cup winning wings.

The argument will get worse not better.

You said Clowe up above, I would gladly take him Lucic, but as we have all already said those players are few and far between. Here is where the gripe begins, we (anti-fighting) would rather not grab a fighter in that case, and you (fighting crowd) think anything is better than nothing.

I just care about the W at the end of the day. If it is a bunch of Mike Ricci specialties I don't care, if it is Dats and Z and Hossa on break aways all day making the goalie look foolish, I don't care, if the wings break 4 noses and knock out 6 of the opponents teeth I don't care as long as it is a W!

Some people won't be happy with a W even a 6-2 drubbing that involved a fight, still not enough for some people, this thread is proof of it!

Wow and whoa. ALL of that clearly and logically written without name-calling or one putdown. Check the skies....

[uk_redwing 495]

However, I notice a strong correlation between being a donor and not being banned. Just my two cents.

I got banned for 3 days a few months ago

Anyways mate, you deserve a medal for your persistance. But your words are falling on deaf ears.

[Yak19 303]

1. LOL @ this board being non-censored and the rampant obscenities. Not necessarily complaining, its a great board and I much prefer private-run ones than the Preds board that censors everything, ass, hell, you name it, and you'll get banned or suspended at the drop of a hat.

2. I'm going to turn off my Preds homerism here for a minute and give an objective view of the fight. I see quite a bit more fighting than you guys do, and I honestly think, objectively, that Suter was just being kind to Hossa. He didn't go after any big haymakers, just kinda danced around and finally ended up on top. It appeared he was in control the whole time. The game was clearly out of hand, and Hoss is a premier offensive talent in the league, and plus Suter is known as a nicer guy. On the other hand, I have seen Ryan clearly whip other defensemen in the NHL in defense of the goalie or what have you. I really think Hoss wouldn't have been so quick to dance if it was Weber or Klein. Just my 0.02.

Yes im sure anyone in a hockey fight would just LET the other guy swing and do nothing, this Suter must be Jesus on ice skates. Please!

[Guest E_S_A_D]

Wow and whoa. ALL of that clearly and logically written without name-calling or one putdown. Check the skies....

That same logical poster typed this 30 seconds later... Don't get too excited-

You really honestly think in an economy like this the only reason the seats are empty is fighting, you sir are a tool, and a ****** bag!

You want to keep guessing at how long I have been a fan, because I will tell you this much you are way off!

Take your I am always right holy than thou attitude and shove it straight up your ass.

You don't like the way the wings have been winning over the past 15 years, well guess what pal, it is not changing any time soon, get used to it, cry about it, build a ******* bridge and then get over it.

I have said this 85 ******* times how in the hell you are allowed to post here when all you do is flame is beyond me.

Don't bother replying I won't read it!!

[Guest E_S_A_D]

I got banned for 3 days a few months ago

Anyways mate, you deserve a medal for your persistance. But your words are falling on deaf ears.

You're right, I may give up here for a while...

I DO NOT appreciate being told off as Opie did with me. I'll be watching closely to see if there is a 'ban' on him for using the language he did. Very curious, to put it lightly.

[Opie 308]

Opie,

I am with you. Like I mentioned above, people tend to take this argument to the extremes. It's ridiculous and doesn't need to go there.

I know where you stand on this position and I concur for the most part. Would love to have a guy like Clowe or Lucic. But they are hard to find.

However, there are lots and lots of players out there who are regular contributors to their teams, take regular shifts, contribute in more ways than just the scoreboard and can also fight.

You take a guy like Eric Nystrom, makes about the same money as Kopecky but won't hesitate to defend himself or his teammates. He plays a regular shift for Calgary.

Look at Cody McCleod. Here's a guy with 12 goals this year, 116 PIM's and makes LESS money than Kopecky.

BJ Crombeen $550,000, 10 goals, 17 points, 125 PIM's.

Adam Mair

Aaron Asham

The list goes on and on. There are plenty of inexpensive guys around the league that could add a little jam to our lineup.

Honestly, would you take Kopecky or Cody McCleod? Or Kopecky vs BJ Crombeen

Seriously, Kopecky, for as big a body he is, is about as effective as a one legged man in an ass kicking contest. If Kopa never played another game for the Wings would anyone really miss his 2 or 3 goals a year and what, 10 points to go along with his pathetic excuse for body checking for a guy his size?

The list goes on and on. There are plenty of guys out there

IF McLeod were available sure as hell I would take him, there are guys out there yes, but how may of them have the control Downey displayed last year, and how many of them are available.

The reason I gained so much respect for Downey was not how he fought, but when he fought. He displayed tremendous control, he picked his spots and did it very very well.

I am not saying I wouldn't take any of the guys you mentioned, I just want a W, I could give two s***s if they bang all night of if the tip toe through the tulips humming Tiny Tim in the ears of the other team, as long as they get a W.

IF it is embarrassing to you (Not GS&T this is a broader question) to be a fan of the Wings in its current state, how embarrassing is it to lose to this team, not very you know why, they are perennially one of the best teams in the league! Complaining about one facet of the game, whilst the team is the best team in the league over a 15 year span, would make me a spoiled fan. Ask the Preds fan that just posted, would he rather have a team like the Wings the past 4 years or like the Preds of the last 4 years. If the Preds could swap rosters with the Wings today would he do it?

[Casey 145]

Hossa should never be put in the position where he has no other choice but to fight, 'cause no one else is going to stand up for the team. Kopecky, Draper and Maltby all need to go. Draper is -14 now for christ sake. I think this team has enough skill to allow for 1 player on the 4th line who can actually fight, I'm not saying he has to be a good or an enforcer, just someone that can throwdown occasionally...kinda like Drake did last year.

Yes, get rid of one of the best faceoff guys in the league. Brilliant. Never mind he's minus 14 with a line with the much-maligned Kopecky on it.

Also, look at how that would be perceived by other players- dumping a longtime contributor because they've slipped a little isn't going to make others want to take the famed Hometown Discount. Trade Kopecky, sure, but Malts and Drapes stay.

As for fighting, my perspective's a bit unique. I boxed in high school, still do so recreationally, and I know exactly what it means to take a haymaker in the face. Do I have a problem with the Wings fighting? No. It's essentially self-defense, as last night was. Do I want to see them carry a dedicated enforcer? Not unless they also have an offensive upside. I would be fine with them having zero fights a year, if they keep winning.

[shutoutking 0]

OK, sorry for the misunderstanding, I'll say I've never personally seen a censored word here.

Esteef, I watched the fight several times and I really was trying to be objective, and it appeared to me that Ryan was holding back. He didn't have anything to gain from the fight and he knew Hossa had a lot to lose, that being his health. And like I said before, Suter is an upstanding guy, whereas Tootoo on the ice isn't so much well-liked.

Datsyerberger:

LOL @ Kopecky-Weber...sure, man, whatever you say.

Yeah, I realize Hoss is a big dude, but he's also a finesse player, so it could go either way. I maintain that Sutes was just playing it out. And really, I've never been one for blind homerism, as you might find out eventually.

Check this out when Suter attacks Morrow from Dallas (he didn't really win this fight, but he was definitely pissed)

[Vladifan 680]

No sir,

THIS IS A PERSONAL ATTACK... Opie on me (although humorous albeit it!)-

And oh boy did you ask for it. And not only just from Opie.

I would have ignored you sooner than he did - after about three putdown posts - but if I had the chance, I'd shake his hand for telling you in so many words, "Sideways and rotating, Bubba"....

:deal:

[esteef 2,679]

IF it is embarrassing to you (Not GS&T this is a broader question) to be a fan of the Wings in its current state, how embarrassing is it to lose to this team, not very you know why, they are perennially one of the best teams in the league! Complaining about one facet of the game, whilst the team is the best team in the league over a 15 year span, would make me a spoiled fan. Ask the Preds fan that just posted, would he rather have a team like the Wings the past 4 years or like the Preds of the last 4 years. If the Preds could swap rosters with the Wings today would he do it?

So we shouldn't point out weaknesses in our team's game on a message board set up for that very purpose? Just because the Wings are successful doesn't mean they can't still improve their overall game. They could've probably won even more Cups had they had tougher teams throughout this era. Fighting is one area where they are weak, and as soon as it's pointed out, those people are thrown in with the goon-lover we-don't-care-about-winning crowd. A big scrappy everyday forward on the 4th line is all we need, and by scrappy I mean someone who actually fights and wins. I don't think those kind of players are that hard to find seeing as most of the teams in the league have at least one, some even more.

esteef

[Opie 308]

And oh boy did you ask for it. And not only just from Opie.

I would have ignored you sooner than he did - after about three putdown posts - but if I had the chance, I'd shake his hand for telling you in so many words, "Sideways and rotating, Bubba"....

:deal:

I appreciate the support and I knew a ban was possible from the moment I started typing.

He wants retaliation on the ice but not on the Discussion boards!

EDIT: That pun was unintended and horrible!

Edited February 19, 2009 by Opie

[Guest E_S_A_D]

And oh boy did you ask for it. And not only just from Opie.

I would have ignored you sooner than he did - after about three putdown posts - but if I had the chance, I'd shake his hand for telling you in so many words, "Sideways and rotating, Bubba"....

:deal:

Huh? Is that Texas lingo? Never heard that term, 'cute' nonetheless.

[seeinred 1,488]

Exactly- look at our 4th line... Kopecky is our enforcer (riiiiight)... he doesn't belong in the NHL PERIOD!

Oh, and for the idiotic statement of the person that said 'name a time a fight prevented an injury'... HUH!? How would you know that, that would be psychic reading... An injury that didn't happen would never be known, because it didn't happen... Wow.

I DO know times where an injury was retributed and probably will be thought of again the following year!

My point was that fighting often makes the game even more chippy. Fighting for retribution is great for morale and for the fans, but to say enforcers serve a safety purpose is just dumb. I've had my ass kicked in games for hurting players, and I didn't think twice about making a hard hit later. Hell it probably made me even more likely to put my elbow up or something. And I'm a ***** compared to NHL enforcers.

Fighting has a place and purpose and great history and blah blah blah. But the amount of games won and lost because of a fight is negligible. Enforcers are great, but they're not 100% necessary.

See how I did that without calling anyone names? Pretty cool, huh?

[Opie 308]

So we shouldn't point out weaknesses in our team's game on a message board set up for that very purpose? Just because the Wings are successful doesn't mean they can't still improve their overall game. They could've probably won even more Cups had they had tougher teams throughout this era. Fighting is one area where they are weak, and as soon as it's pointed out, those people are thrown in with the goon-lover we-don't-care-about-winning crowd. A big scrappy everyday forward on the 4th line is all we need, and by scrappy I mean someone who actually fights and wins. I don't think those kind of players are that hard to find seeing as most of the teams in the league have at least one, some even more.

esteef

esteef, come on dude, I will give you more credit than that, we were just having a discussion about the two sides going to extremes (Billy Joel reference anyone?) then you bring up the "I am just pointing out a weakness the team has" yeah no s***, they have a weakness, did you also post any time in the past that it was embarrassing to be a wings fan because of the lack of fights, if so you are not pointing out weaknesses, if not than I wasn't talking about you.

I gave you more credit than I should have I guess, but I thought you would have been able to decipher that!

I will also contend that Downey would be a top 12 forward on most of those teams that have multiple enforcers, they don't have 3 top 20 forwards in the league, they don't have the best player in the world on their team (#5) they also don't have cap issues, they also don't have 3 times as many wins as losses.

This team is littered with high level talent, people here ***** about Sammy, Lilja, and Lebda well there are about 20 teams in the league that would love the Wings left overs.

Edited February 19, 2009 by Opie

[shutoutking 0]

Yes im sure anyone in a hockey fight would just LET the other guy swing and do nothing, this Suter must be Jesus on ice skates. Please!

Never said that buddy. I was trying to tell you that Suter may have been just avoiding getting nailed and avoiding nailing Hossa until it ran its course, thats all. Ryan's a good guy, never known for cheap shots or whatever. I don't even think he wanted to fight. Thats all.

[Dominator2005 558]

It's Holland or Al Avila, the Detroit coaches over the years have had little say who gets call ups. The only one that had some say was Scotty Bowman, but that's because Holland actually repsected him. Holland and Avila have always been big proponents of Euro-hockey and marketing. I give them credit, they find a lot of diamonds in the rough; however, they lack the balls to make the big call ups of physical players.

There's no reason Abdelkader and Downey should not be on the Detroit roster, even if Downey is a healthy scratch against weak teams.

Give me a break with your "Euro-Hockey style". Konstantinov is Euro so what's your point? Look at Chara...

The problem is drafting/signing only skilled players and no toughness... Emmerton, Mathias over Lučić...

Four your ref:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Sakic

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milan_Lucic

It would be very tough to watch NHL without Euros...

[seeinred 1,488]

Never said that buddy. I was trying to tell you that Suter may have been just avoiding getting nailed and avoiding nailing Hossa until it ran its course, thats all. Ryan's a good guy, never known for cheap shots or whatever. I don't even think he wanted to fight. Thats all.

I wouldn't say that's impossible, but I'd say it's HIGHLY unlikely. If you have a chance to cleanly take out a division rival's star player, most guys are gonna do it I bet.

[Dominator2005 558]

IF McLeod were available sure as hell I would take him, there are guys out there yes, but how may of them have the control Downey displayed last year, and how many of them are available.

The reason I gained so much respect for Downey was not how he fought, but when he fought. He displayed tremendous control, he picked his spots and did it very very well.

I am not saying I wouldn't take any of the guys you mentioned, I just want a W, I could give two s***s if they bang all night of if the tip toe through the tulips humming Tiny Tim in the ears of the other team, as long as they get a W.

IF it is embarrassing to you (Not GS&T this is a broader question) to be a fan of the Wings in its current state, how embarrassing is it to lose to this team, not very you know why, they are perennially one of the best teams in the league! Complaining about one facet of the game, whilst the team is the best team in the league over a 15 year span, would make me a spoiled fan. Ask the Preds fan that just posted, would he rather have a team like the Wings the past 4 years or like the Preds of the last 4 years. If the Preds could swap rosters with the Wings today would he do it?

What about Shawn Thornton??? He's playing very well so far this season...

[Opie 308]

What about Shawn Thornton??? He's playing very well so far this season...

If he is available and the Wings are interested sure, that is my whole point I don't give a crap who it is on the team, I don't care if it is Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lindstrom, Daigle, and Aki Beg as long as they win, you guys keep bringing up names, sure fine I don't care as long as the Wings keep winning.

Why does it matter who it is as long as they win!

I will give my opinion on the player when and if they are signed, but after that it is a matter of how the team does in L's and W's!!

[Dominator2005 558]

If he is available and the Wings are interested sure, that is my whole point I don't give a crap who it is on the team, I don't care if it is Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg or Lindstrom, Daigle, and Aki Beg as long as they win, you guys keep bringing up names, sure fine I don't care as long as the Wings keep winning.

Why does it matter who it is as long as they win!

I will give my opinion on the player when and if they are signed, but after that it is a matter of how the team does in L's and W's!!

[shutoutking 0]

I wouldn't say that's impossible, but I'd say it's HIGHLY unlikely. If you have a chance to cleanly take out a division rival's star player, most guys are gonna do it I bet.

Sure, I get your point, but you may be selling short that some of these guys have a heart, especially Suter. I'll grant you that if it was Tootoo or Klein they would've hit him till his face fell off, lol...anyway, we can agree to disagree so I don't start to get a troll rep.

[Guest E_S_A_D]

FYI...

I'm going to resign from this board for a month at least, maybe more. I'll leave it simply at that.

Take care all, and Go Wings!

[Vladifan 680]

Never said that buddy. I was trying to tell you that Suter may have been just avoiding getting nailed and avoiding nailing Hossa until it ran its course, thats all. Ryan's a good guy, never known for cheap shots or whatever. I don't even think he wanted to fight. Thats all.

I'm still glad you come to visit, and I cannot guess at Suter's intentions, but he deliberately went out of his way to ram Hossa. First thing I thought of was why Hossa? Which leads me to the conclusion that Suter was out of control or trying to make some stupid, unconnected point. Nice guy or no, his intentions were not honorable or acceptable at that point in time.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

No, no it's not. You want fighting that bad, go watch a boxing match. To even suggest that there's something wrong with this team because they aren't Tyson on skates is almost ludicrous to me. There's a difference to me between being more physical and flat-out fighting all the damn time.

This attitude people here have about how the Red Wings suddenly need to turn into the Broad Street Bullies circa 1976 is puzzling at best and mind-numbing at worst. Shouldn't the overall objective be that we win games? As long as we're winning games, I don't give rat's patoot how we do it. Well, as long as we're winning fair and square. No hanky-panky needed.

I didn't say we had to fight all the time. I said that the pace we're currently on for FM is pathetic. We could at least make it look like we fight back from time to time. You obviously overblew my post, at 1 in the morning no less.

Quoted for truth.

And spare me the droopy eyes or angry rants of "Why is it a crime to question what this organization does?" I get it.

This team does not scrap much. It is not sad or pathetic. It just means that this team does not scrap much, nothing more/less. It has been this way for a while now. I'll take consistent winning and winning a Cup here/there every few years as being more important than possibly having 10-15 more fights a year.

Hey, right about now I'd welcome the idea of us finishing with 15 fights, even though that would still be dead last in the league by a wide margin. That's what I meant by pathetic.

Seriously? He just got back from a hand injury and you want him to drop the gloves? Seriously?

His hand looked fine to me last night when he was scoring all those goals. Kicking Hamhuis' ass (who BTW isn't much of a fighter himself) wouldn't have been a bad idea.

Any one else notice that since the mid 90's the Wings don't fight much... AND are the most successful organization in the league? Face it, fighting majors don't win, the Red Wings do.

All our Cups came in years where we dressed tougher rosters than in years we didn't win the Cup.

Apparently you didn't notice that when you made your smart ass post.