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Hockeytown0001

2/20 GDT: Anaheim Ducks at Red Wings

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Z has 12 points in his last 10, hudler as 9 in his last ten. Not sure where you're getting your numbers.

I'm not saying Flip should get PP time over flip. I'm saying flip is matching hudler's production without PP time. That's all.

I made an error; I was using the Yahoo game log, which had yet to include tonight's game. Post is updated.

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Flip isn't being shopped for a trade...since he doesn't get PP time his ES TOI numbers are boosted a bit because he gets played more as he's fresher when the PP comes off....I saw it at least once tonight.

Yeah. I suppose that makes up for the 5 minute differential between Filppula's even strength ice time and the 3rd best forward in the NHL's ESTOI.

Basically, Mike is just trying to milk every point out of Flip that he can. Everyone else will produce without the extra boost.

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Flip isn't being shopped for a trade...since he doesn't get PP time his ES TOI numbers are boosted a bit because he gets played more as he's fresher when the PP comes off....I saw it at least once tonight.

good point - no shopping - haven't you heard? The economy is horrid.

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Flip isn't being shopped for a trade...since he doesn't get PP time his ES TOI numbers are boosted a bit because he gets played more as he's fresher when the PP comes off....I saw it at least once tonight.

Well if it came down to it and we wanted to add some grit or experienced Defensive depth hed be the only one we can move and not worry about the cap (we do have a lot of cheap players, damn i wish for the days of Lang, where we had a guy getting money and was obviously lazy).

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Yeah. I suppose that makes up for the 5 minute differential between Filppula's even strength ice time and the 3rd best forward in the NHL's ESTOI.

Basically, Mike is just trying to milk every point out of Flip that he can. Everyone else will produce without the extra boost.

That entire line had more ice time than Datsyuk's line. Jesus christ. Maybe they're trying to shop Flip, hossa AND mule for a trade? Look at Flip vs Hossa or Flip vs Franzen, not Flip v Datsyuk. Flip, Hossa and Franzen all had similar ES ice time, but Flip had a bit more because of the reason I posted. s***. Take your eyes out of the magnifying glass and look at everything, not just what is going to give you the best argument.

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Well if it came down to it and we wanted to add some grit or experienced Defensive depth hed be the only one we can move and not worry about the cap (we do have a lot of cheap players, damn i wish for the days of Lang, where we had a guy getting money and was obviously lazy).

Take on objective look at the 3 forwards who we would trade if it came to that

Flip

Hudler

Franzen

Baring any trade, the only one guaranteed to be with us is Flip. Both Hudler and Franzen have a chance to be lost for nothing after this season, potentially both. If you're going to trade one of them, don't you think it would be a smarter move to trade the ones that might leave for nothing anyway? And actually as I'm typing this I'm remembering that Huds is a RFA so we'll still get something out of him either way and in fact we'd potentially get more if we didn't trade him and he left via an offer sheet. So therefor the most logical conclusion is Franzen would be the smartest to deal as our chances of signing him are the least so if we traded him we'd get something for him anyway.

But I don't see the Wings trading Franzen as they think he's too valuable, and so the most reasonable conclusion?

No one is going to be traded.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Well if it came down to it and we wanted to add some grit or experienced Defensive depth hed be the only one we can move and not worry about the cap (we do have a lot of cheap players, damn i wish for the days of Lang, where we had a guy getting money and was obviously lazy).

you forgot sucked. Though I still think HeroesOfHockeyTowns avatar is still one of my all time favorites....

Actually, I think the spirit of suckiness is being channeled thru Kopy's cut pants. I never thought of it that way, but perhaps Bobby is a role model of sorts for Kopy.

Actually, I loved "What Me back-check" Lang. Seriously, I did.... I know, I know.

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That entire line had more ice time than Datsyuk's line. Jesus christ. Maybe they're trying to shop Flip, hossa AND mule for a trade? Look at Flip vs Hossa or Flip vs Franzen, not Flip v Datsyuk. Flip, Hossa and Franzen all had similar ES ice time, but Flip had a bit more because of the reason I posted. s***. Take your eyes out of the magnifying glass and look at everything, not just what is going to give you the best argument.

Of course Franzen is going to get a lot of ice time. Babcock always does that with guys coming back from injuries, and he still got over a minute more than Hossa, who is significantly better than him.

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Take on objective look at the 3 forwards who we would trade if it came to that

Flip

Hudler

Franzen

Baring any trade, the only one guaranteed to be with us is Flip. Both Hudler and Franzen have a chance to be lost for nothing after this season, potentially both. If you're going to trade one of them, don't you think it would be a smarter move to trade the ones that might leave for nothing anyway? And actually as I'm typing this I'm remembering that Huds is a RFA so we'll still get something out of him either way and in fact we'd potentially get more if we didn't trade him and he left via an offer sheet. So therefor the most logical conclusion is Franzen would be the smartest to deal as our chances of signing him are the least so if we traded him we'd get something for him anyway.

But I don't see the Wings trading Franzen as they think he's too valuable, and so the most reasonable conclusion?

No one is going to be traded.

I think you are correct in the 3 you post, however I think alot still has to be determined by contract negotiations and goalie play between now and the deadline.

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Take on objective look at the 3 forwards who we would trade if it came to that

Flip

Hudler

Franzen

Baring any trade, the only one guaranteed to be with us is Flip. Both Hudler and Franzen have a chance to be lost for nothing after this season, potentially both. If you're going to trade one of them, don't you think it would be a smarter move to trade the ones that might leave for nothing anyway? And actually as I'm typing this I'm remembering that Huds is a RFA so we'll still get something out of him either way and in fact we'd potentially get more if we didn't trade him and he left via an offer sheet. So therefor the most logical conclusion is Franzen would be the smartest to deal as our chances of signing him are the least so if we traded him we'd get something for him anyway.

But I don't see the Wings trading Franzen as they think he's too valuable, and so the most reasonable conclusion?

No one is going to be traded.

Well, considering both of those guys are better than Filppula and, being that they aren't signed, won't garner as much in a trade as they would if they were signed, then no. Theres also the issue of tagging space. And the fact that our PP is as sick as it is (and on this team, we need it to be) because of the talent we have on the 2nd PP in Franzen and Hudler. We can't weaken our bread and butter for a third wheel player.

As Holland said a few days ago, if he makes a move at the deadline, hes going to be moving players, not getting rid of picks and prospects.

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I think you are correct in the 3 you post, however I think alot still has to be determined by contract negotiations and goalie play between now and the deadline.

Agreed.

he still got over a minute more than Hossa, who is significantly better than him.

Because there is the discrepancy in PP time. Hossa has 3 more minutes in PP times, Flip gets an extra minute in ES time. Is that not reasonable? I think I remember saying something like this extremely recently.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Of course Franzen is going to get a lot of ice time. Babcock always does that with guys coming back from injuries

Really?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/boxscore.htm?id=2008020857

That's franzen's first game back. He doesn't seem to have much more ice time than anyone else.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Agreed.

Because there is the discrepancy in PP time. Hossa has 3 more minutes in PP times, Flip gets an extra minute in ES time. Is that not reasonable? I think I remember saying something like this extremely recently.

Is that not reasonable? Hossa is about 10 times the player Filppula is. Again - this is the Wings brass doing everything they can to jumpstart Flip without ruining our bread and butter - the PP.

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Well, considering both of those guys are better than Filppula and, being that they aren't signed, won't garner as much in a trade as they would if they were signed, then no. Theres also the issue of tagging space. And the fact that our PP is as sick as it is (and on this team, we need it to be) because of the talent we have on the 2nd PP in Franzen and Hudler. We can't weaken our bread and butter for a third wheel player.

As Holland said a few days ago, if he makes a move at the deadline, hes going to be moving players, not getting rid of picks and prospects.

I just hope they don't deal Leino or other young talent in a moment of goalie panic. I remember back in the day when we made cup runs and gave up guys like Mike Knuble. Of course that was in the pre-cap era, so times have changed.

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So...15.5 minutes - the 5th most ice time behind only the 1st line and Hossa - isn't a lot for a guy who hadn't played in over 2 weeks?

It's..completely normal ice time for a second liner. Does Babcock like to not play players back from injuries less? Yes. but that's different from playing them "a lot". So your previous argument that went like "Of course Franzen is going to get a lot of ice time. Babcock always does that with guys coming back from injuries" is moot.

Is that not reasonable? Hossa is about 10 times the player Filppula is. Again - this is the Wings brass doing everything they can to jumpstart Flip without ruining our bread and butter - the PP.

You don't seem to understand the fact that everyone on a single line is going to receive similar ice time. Cleary had very similar ES ice time to Datsyuk. Do you think it's because Babcock thinks cleary is as good as datsyuk or is it because they play on the same line? You seem to put WAAY to much stock in ice time. I'm not just saying here right now, I see it a lot from you.

Now I'm not disagreeing with you about trying to jumpstart flip, I'm sure that has something to do with it. But they're NOT shopping/displaying him for a trade.

Edited by Z and D for the C

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Red wings won why all the hate going on...

LOL. You don't understand red wings fans. This is not hate, it's what we do because have no real reason to hate. We have to manufacture our hate based on strange hypothetical scenarios. Or even worse, what is relative hate: Our team wins 90% of the time and who is "not contributing". I know its pretty pathetic, but we are spoiled. Having said all that, I still hate Maltby, Kopy and to a lesser extent Draper. Oh yeah, I forgot about that goalie... what's his name?

Did I forget to mention I am spoiled?

Edited by clutchngrab

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LOL. You don't understand red wings fans. This is not hate, it's what we do because have no real reason to hate. We have to manufacture our hate based on strange hypothetical scenarios. Or even worse, what is relative hate: Our team wins 90% of the time and who is "not contributing". I know its pretty pathetic, but we are spoiled. Having said all that, I still hate Maltby, Kopy and to a lesser extent Draper. Oh yeah, I forgot about that goalie... what's his name?

Did I forget to mention I am spoiled?

You would think i would come to expect it by now <_<

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came here to read some post game analysis because i couldnt see the game but only found 4 pages of discussion about wheter or not flip is a good player.. i'm dissapointed LGW! :(

how did kronwall look out there? lidstrom?

did someone hit pronger or perry? o.O

gimme something! :flash:

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