Howard Recalled; Osgood told to "re-focus"

[Outsider 42]

Well, now Howard is sent down to GR again because of bad performance last night.

Relax....

Howard wasn't sent down becauase he had a "bad game". He was sent down because that was the plan all along.

From MLive on February 20th

"Howard is expected to be sent back to Grand Rapids after Saturday's game."

I posted earlier in this thread that I didn't understand where anyone, (other than the Great George Sipple), had gotten the impression that the Wings were shutting Osgood down for "the next 10 days", all Holland said was that he would "get 10 days" with no games in order to clear his head.

Apparently, (as I surmised), when he said "10 days with no games" it was intended to be from his last Start against Colorado, to the game on the 25th against San Jose.

[Outsider 42]

I like the Wings stack up with tons of their offensive talent but if you see the Flyers, Biron has been just awfully terrinble during whole his career except for the last season.

Interesting take on Biron's career. "Awfully terrible"? While I don't think Biron's been good, by any means, I wouldn't call him "awfully terrible". I'd probably call him "pedestrian at best".

Had he something to show for his 11 years in the League, (more than 1 Post Season appearance, some Play Off Victories, a solid Play Off showing, ANYTHING....), I might rate him higher than that. But he's got nothin'.....nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero.

Oddly enough, Martin Biron and Ty Conklin have nearly identical career stats.

Main difference between the two has been that Biron has been a Starter his entire career, with at least a tentative hold on the Starters job in Buffalo for 8 years, and a similarly tentative hold on the Starters job in Philadelphia for the past 3.

Whereas Conklin has always been a back up, and other than his 3 year back up role in Edmonton, has spent nearly as much of his career in the AHL as he has in the NHL, and usually hasn't settled in one place for more than a year at a time, in either League.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Outsider

[Kevvie 0]

Howard's short trip to play with the big guys is a fine plan to give Ozzie some time, but I can't figure out why they didn't just have him back up Conks. I suppose they wanted to see him play, but they didn't improve their situation by throwing a game away. A little bizarre if you ask me, and I realize nobody asked me.

We should be looking for a way to set up a good winning streak, not shutting one down. I hope they bring Ozzie back and let him ride some pine to back up Ty. Let Ozzie continue to think about the position he has put himself, and his team, in. A good goalie with a Stanley Cup hangover or some kind of superiority complex isn't worth s*** in this league. I'm not in the head of the Great Oz, so I don't know exactly what the issue is there, but he needs to put it together, build a bridge, and get over it.

Without a solution to the goal tending problems in Detroit, we are looking at an ass kicking in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah, I know that's a long way off, but this has been the whole season issue so far.

Good luck to Chris Osgood.

[boomer 0]

He's going back to Grand Rapids, no doubt he'll be recalled again. Osgood is still in the can, remember?

That said, how about dumping everyone and getting a REAL goalie for once. What's Craig Anderson in Florida up to these days?

That's been my feeling all year. I think we need someone to help Conklin. I doubt they would give up Anderson- he's got potential. I know that Kari Lehtonen Is up for grabs.

[Wingsallwin 0]

Interesting take on Biron's career. "Awfully terrible"? While I don't think Biron's been good, by any means, I wouldn't call him "awfully terrible". I'd probably call him "pedestrian at best".

Had he something to show for his 11 years in the League, (more than 1 Post Season appearance, some Play Off Victories, a solid Play Off showing, ANYTHING....), I might rate him higher than that. But he's got nothin'.....nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero.

Oddly enough, Martin Biron and Ty Conklin have nearly identical career stats.

Main difference between the two has been that Biron has been a Starter his entire career, with at least a tentative hold on the Starters job in Buffalo for 8 years, and a similarly tentative hold on the Starters job in Philadelphia for the past 3.

Whereas Conklin has always been a back up, and other than his 3 year back up role in Edmonton, has spent nearly as much of his career in the AHL as he has in the NHL, and usually hasn't settled in one place for more than a year at a time, in either League.

Oh, I see your point but let's forget about the past history of both players. I do not know anything how Ozzie performs after this 10 days break but hopeuflly he can bounce back.

Ah, and you mentioned about Brion's overall talent. I think he is pretty talented goalie but generally, he is like Fleury who is very inconsistent. You cannot call those guys great

[boomer 0]

If Osgood can't recover from his Stanley Cup hangover or what ever funk he is in I say trade his ass and try to keep Conklin.

I don't see a trade happening for him unless someone is desperate for a back- up - Calgary?

[interminded 1]

Agree. Even though I do not like this season's Osgood's performance, there is no just assumption how the things can be changed or gone.

But let me tell something. Like there is no assumption on individual player, there is no magical assumption that Ozzie will turn around in the playoff either

True, there is no magical assumption or a magical remedy.

All I can do, and we should all I think, is have faith in Ozzie and believe he will do everything in his power to turns things around.

BELIEVE, remember ?

[Doggy 130]

Relax....

Sorry, I just found that ironic coming from you.

[lets go pavel 2]

We should be looking for a way to set up a good winning streak, not shutting one down. I hope they bring Ozzie back and let him ride some pine to back up Ty. Let Ozzie continue to think about the position he has put himself, and his team, in. A good goalie with a Stanley Cup hangover or some kind of superiority complex isn't worth s*** in this league. I'm not in the head of the Great Oz, so I don't know exactly what the issue is there, but he needs to put it together, build a bridge, and get over it.

Huh? Should we send him to his room without supper, too? Last I checked Ozzie isn't a 6-year-old who's been misbehaving. It's not like he's intentionally gone out and had a s***ty year, so what do you want him to think about? If anything, thinking about it too much IS the problem, which is probably why they're giving him the time away to begin with.

[Vladifan 680]

Just remember though, last night if Chris Osgood was in goal the score wouldn't have been any better.

Ah. You could rent out that crystal ball/Ouija Board/fortune-telling turban for millions.

[2probert4 8]

I think this is a bad move. The Wings are never going to know how good Howard is if they only play him 1 game.

The Wings brass had been making remarks on the lack of development in Howards game before the end of last season; that came from Jim Nil..... This was all but his season to impress everyone, or they go in another direction; Hence Larsson being shipped over, and the drafting of a goalie with the 30th pick overall. But at the same time, last night shouldn't be do or die for him this year, let the kid play another game. His stats looked bad, but they didn't play well in front of him last night.....

[sureWhyNot 19]

I thought Howard did very well last season.

LOL, this actually doesn't surprise me coming from you -- That said, with a guy who rang in an impressive 4.10 GAA and a .857 SV% in his first game of the year, it can't really get any worse. More or less there is no where he can go but up!

[Casey 145]

Ditch Howard, sign Conk, maybe go looking for a FA goalie to supplement or replace Ozzie next year.

[soonboomer 31]

Howard's short trip to play with the big guys is a fine plan to give Ozzie some time, but I can't figure out why they didn't just have him back up Conks. I suppose they wanted to see him play, but they didn't improve their situation by throwing a game away. A little bizarre if you ask me, and I realize nobody asked me.

We should be looking for a way to set up a good winning streak, not shutting one down. I hope they bring Ozzie back and let him ride some pine to back up Ty. Let Ozzie continue to think about the position he has put himself, and his team, in. A good goalie with a Stanley Cup hangover or some kind of superiority complex isn't worth s*** in this league. I'm not in the head of the Great Oz, so I don't know exactly what the issue is there, but he needs to put it together, build a bridge, and get over it.

Without a solution to the goal tending problems in Detroit, we are looking at an ass kicking in the first round of the playoffs. Yeah, I know that's a long way off, but this has been the whole season issue so far.

Good luck to Chris Osgood.

You're right....nobody asked you. The defensive lapses last night were more at fault than Howard's goaltending. He actually did make a number of quality saves but seemed to be hung out on an island by our defensemen more than usual. As for playoff time, Babcock and the front office will make the decisions that are best for the team, and regardless of who the Wings play in the first round, Detroit will be a prohibitive favorite. Give all the doom and gloom comments a rest.

[Kevvie 0]

Huh? Should we send him to his room without supper, too? Last I checked Ozzie isn't a 6-year-old who's been misbehaving. It's not like he's intentionally gone out and had a s***ty year, so what do you want him to think about? If anything, thinking about it too much IS the problem, which is probably why they're giving him the time away to begin with.

Yeah, no supper or dessert. Good question. Nobody said he's intentionally had a s***ty year. I know I didn't. Like I've said before, I'm a fan of Osgood's, but his play this year has not been up to par. "Re-focus" is the key word used in the naming of the thread, and you don't do that by eating your wheaties. His skills are not in question, but his mind-set is. Do you actually believe that giving him ten days off will result in him NOT thinking about his game? Yeah, he's gonna kick back with some Coronas, with lime, and watch Happy Days reruns, and enjoy the quiet life.

[Kevvie 0]

You're right....nobody asked you. The defensive lapses last night were more at fault than Howard's goaltending. He actually did make a number of quality saves but seemed to be hung out on an island by our defensemen more than usual. As for playoff time, Babcock and the front office will make the decisions that are best for the team, and regardless of who the Wings play in the first round, Detroit will be a prohibitive favorite. Give all the doom and gloom comments a rest.

Wow, a little pissy are we? I didn't realize I had to be asked to voice an opinion here. Maybe you could let people know somehow when you'd like their opinion. Or at least the people with an opinion that differs from yours. Or maybe we could post our opinions and let people discuss what they are thinking. Personally, I didn't get to see last night's game, but I did read that Howard let in a couple of soft goals. My thinking isn't with Howard so much as the roster goalies. Yes, I know the defense has been a bit of a problem too. I've seen that. This thread was about Osgood and his time off. I still believe that without goaltending of a higher caliber than we've seen so far this year, the first round will be a washout. Being a favorite doesn't win games. Getting more goals than the other team does.

[soonboomer 31]

Wow, a little pissy are we? I didn't realize I had to be asked to voice an opinion here. Maybe you could let people know somehow when you'd like their opinion. Or at least the people with an opinion that differs from yours. Or maybe we could post our opinions and let people discuss what they are thinking. Personally, I didn't get to see last night's game, but I did read that Howard let in a couple of soft goals. My thinking isn't with Howard so much as the roster goalies. Yes, I know the defense has been a bit of a problem too. I've seen that. This thread was about Osgood and his time off. I still believe that without goaltending of a higher caliber than we've seen so far this year, the first round will be a washout. Being a favorite doesn't win games. Getting more goals than the other team does.

Thanks for your overstatement of the obvious, but threads calling for "better goaltending" or we'll lose in the first round are becoming at least a dime a dozen on this forum. Instead of offering another opinion, I'll choose to look at the facts which are (1) Holland has said that we're not in the market for a goaltender acquisition at the trade deadline (2) that being the case, it's either Ozzie or Conklin who'll take the Wings as far as they're going this year, and (3) in spite of who the fans think should be playing, Babcock will play whichever goaltender gives them the best chance of winning.....regardless of who has or hasn't accomplished whatever in the past. Right now that appears to be Conklin, but with 20 some games left in the regular season, things can change dramatically. You'd think this organization had never won anything with all the whining and complaining the fans do here. It changes from day to day.....when the Wings win, they're awesome and the cup is their birthright....when they lose, it's time for wholesale line changes and major acquisitions at the trade deadline. I guess things are never good enough.

[eva unit zero 271]

Ditch Howard, sign Conk, maybe go looking for a FA goalie to supplement or replace Ozzie next year.

Of roster players the team has who are UFA in the summer, Tomas Kopecky and Chris Chelios are the only players who are less important to the team than Conklin. Conklin will almost certainly garner his first starter position this offseason, at a salary the Wings cannot afford to come close to without sacrificing the cap space they would need for Hossa/Franzen/Hudler.

Teams definitely looking for a starter of Conklin's level or better:

Colorado, Ottawa, Toronto

Colorado currently has nobody better than Conklin and would probably love to take him from Detroit because he would come cheaply for a guy of his talent given Detroit's cap concerns and his "career-backup" resume that might make teams opt first for comparable-talent guys like Martin Biron or Manny Legace who have been starters

Teams that could be looking for a starter of Conklin's level or better:

Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Edmonton, Minnesota, Nashville, Philadelphia, Washington

Now that's a pretty long list. The chances that one of the teams I have mentioned, or another, signs Conklin is far greater than the chances he opts to stay in Detroit for a fraction of what most of those teams would be offering if it comes to him on their list. Detroit won't be able to pay Conklin more than $1.5-2m at the absolute MAXIMUM, even if he play every minute to backstop the team to a four-sweep Cup victory this spring.

So regardless of what happens as far as the playoff starter, the Wings basically have three options next fall:

Option 1) Osgood as the starter, backed up by Howard. I know this just excites everybody here a ton.

Option 2) Osgood as the starter, with another sub-$750k backup signed as a UFA. Howard is waived or traded before the season starts.

Option 3) Osgood as the starter, backed up by Larsson out of training camp. Howard is waived or traded before the season starts.

[Doggy 130]

Teams that could be looking for a starter of Conklin's level or better:

Atlanta, Boston, Dallas, Edmonton, Minnesota, Nashville, Philadelphia, Washington

I don't get this list. Can you explain why you think these teams should be considered?

Atlanta - I guess it's feasible that Atlanta might want someone other than Hedberg to challenge Pavelec. That is, if they trade Lehtonen. Not likely though. Either way, Pavelec seems to be their guy.

Boston - there's no chance in HELL, that he could be a starter in Boston. You're kidding yourself if you think Thomas won't be re-signed.

Dallas - you think Conklin will de-throne Turco??? Seriously?

Nashville - Pekka Rinne and Dan Ellis signed through next season.

[Kevvie 0]

Thanks for your overstatement of the obvious, but threads calling for "better goaltending" or we'll lose in the first round are becoming at least a dime a dozen on this forum. Instead of offering another opinion, I'll choose to look at the facts which are (1) Holland has said that we're not in the market for a goaltender acquisition at the trade deadline (2) that being the case, it's either Ozzie or Conklin who'll take the Wings as far as they're going this year, and (3) in spite of who the fans think should be playing, Babcock will play whichever goaltender gives them the best chance of winning.....regardless of who has or hasn't accomplished whatever in the past. Right now that appears to be Conklin, but with 20 some games left in the regular season, things can change dramatically. You'd think this organization had never won anything with all the whining and complaining the fans do here. It changes from day to day.....when the Wings win, they're awesome and the cup is their birthright....when they lose, it's time for wholesale line changes and major acquisitions at the trade deadline. I guess things are never good enough.

You're welcome. If certain threads tend to bring on this amount of distress for you, I would suggest you skip them. Failing that, don't give all your 'tude to people who are doing the same thing you are...that is posting here to discuss opinions, facts, and musings. You seem to have some real issues with the whining and complaining done here. Hmm...pretty sure I did neither of those things, but again, if that's a problem for you, move along and shut the f*** up because I don't need you to tell me what to do or how to think. I posted an opinion, which you took some kind of offense to. I really don't give a rat's ass. What gets to me is that you feel it's your personal duty to, instead of state a differing opinion, get s***ty with others you don't agree with. Put on your big girl panties, read, discuss, do whatever you want to do. As long as you don't be a dickhead to people just for the sake of being a dickhead.

[eva unit zero 271]

I don't get this list. Can you explain why you think these teams should be considered?

Atlanta - I guess it's feasible that Atlanta might want someone other than Hedberg to challenge Pavelec. That is, if they trade Lehtonen. Not likely though. Either way, Pavelec seems to be their guy.

The impression I get is that Hedberg is out ASAP. Atlanta is on the "could be" list, as Pavelec has not been too impressive in his NHL time this season and I could seen them picking up Conklin for a 1a/1b type of role to start the year if they want to give Pavelec that much PT.

Boston - there's no chance in HELL, that he could be a starter in Boston. You're kidding yourself if you think Thomas won't be re-signed.

Thomas and Fernandez are both UFAs. Thomas is going to be the hottest commodity among goalies this summer; are you sure he stays in Boston? There's no guarantee Boston gets to keep EITHER goaltender, depending on the timing of the signing. If they haven't signed one or both of them before open season, then I see it like this: If Thomas goes elsewhere on the first day of free agency, then Fernandez is much more likely to stay. But if Fernandez is the first to sign elsewhere, Boston's chances of keeping either are questionable. The fact that they are both UFAs having good seasons put Boston on the list.

Dallas - you think Conklin will de-throne Turco??? Seriously?

Turco has been very inconsistent this season, and has been declining for years. I could see Dallas signing Conklin to a 1a/1b tandem role with Turco and Turco blowing it simply because he's been losing his game recently. But again, Dallas was on the "could" list, not the "needs a starter" list.

Nashville - Pekka Rinne and Dan Ellis signed through next season.

Ellis is at best no better than Conklin, except he's more inconsistent. Rinne is a backup who could be better than Conklin in a few years, but if he's backing up Ellis he isn't now. You are seriously asking about goaltending-challenged Nashville but not about Washington, which has a legit starter signed through next season and would only be looking if they needed to clear his considerable cap space by acquiring a much cheaper but starter-capable goaltender to take his place.

I didn't say every team on that list would have a new starter; just that all of them were in a situation where they would be interested in a guy like Conklin on the FA market.

[Doggy 130]

[font="Book Antiqua"Ellis is at best no better than Conklin, except he's more inconsistent. Rinne is a backup who could be better than Conklin in a few years, but if he's backing up Ellis he isn't now. You are seriously asking about goaltending-challenged Nashville but not about Washington, which has a legit starter signed through next season and would only be looking if they needed to clear his considerable cap space by acquiring a much cheaper but starter-capable goaltender to take his place.

I didn't say every team on that list would have a new starter; just that all of them were in a situation where they would be interested in a guy like Conklin on the FA market.[/font]

1. If you think they're not too sure about Pavelec, why would they put Kari Lehtonen on the block. Atlanta will do what Pittsburgh did with Fleury and ride him through the bad stages until the team and he are highly competitive.

2. Pekka Rinne and Ellis are pretty capable goalies. Rinne's been lights out this season. Ellis was pretty decent as a starter last season and is a pretty handy backup. Why would they trade him? He's signed through next season. You can call them goaltending challenged if you want. But they aren't.

3. Theodore is a player that could use a challenge. Neuvirth is a kid and will play AHL hockey next season without clearing waivers and Johnson's contract is up after next season. I'd say Conklin would be quite an attractive option for them. I think you kind of embarrassed yourself with this comment.

4. Turco's actually steadily improved as the season has progressed and if you think Hull and Jackson think Conklin is the man to take them all the way over Turco, you're embarrassing yourself more.

5. Commonsense suggests that Boston and Thomas could come to some sort of an agreement. Why would Thomas want to leave. This team will be seriously good for a quite a few more years. They won't re-sign Fernandez so maybe they'll get someone like Conklin but he won't take the starters spot. Losing Fernandez will offset the raise Thomas will earn.

None of these teams will have Conklin or anyone like him as their starter next year.

Edited February 23, 2009 by Doggy

[eva unit zero 271]

1. If you think they're not too sure about Pavelec, why would they put Kari Lehtonen on the block. Atlanta will do what Pittsburgh did with Fleury and ride him through the bad stages until the team and he are highly competitive.

2. Pekka Rinne and Ellis are pretty capable goalies. Rinne's been lights out this season. Ellis was pretty decent as a starter last season and is a pretty handy backup. Why would they trade him? He's signed through next season. You can call them goaltending challenged if you want. But they aren't.

3. Theodore is a player that could use a challenge. Neuvirth is a kid and will play AHL hockey next season without clearing waivers and Johnson's contract is up after next season. I'd say Conklin would be quite an attractive option for them. I think you kind of embarrassed yourself with this comment.

4. Turco's actually steadily improved as the season has progressed and if you think Hull and Jackson think Conklin is the man to take them all the way over Turco, you're embarrassing yourself more.

5. Commonsense suggests that Boston and Thomas could come to some sort of an agreement. Why would Thomas want to leave. This team will be seriously good for a quite a few more years. They won't re-sign Fernandez so maybe they'll get someone like Conklin but he won't take the starters spot. Losing Fernandez will offset the raise Thomas will earn.

None of these teams will have Conklin or anyone like him as their starter next year.

Of the goalies you mentioned in those five points, Rinne is the only goaltender who doesn't play for Boston who currently has a better save percentage than Conklin this season. Rinne is also a rookie, and there's no guarantee that he duplicates his performance from this season.

I included those teams because it's POSSIBLE that they could end up with Conklin or someone like him as their starter next year. You chose to read it as meaning all of those teams would get into a bidding war that would make Ty Conklin the highest-paid goaltender or something like that; basically not at all what I meant. I meant that those teams COULD end up looking at him or someone like him. The first list will definitely be looking at goalies like Conklin, and that's why he won't be a Wing.

[Doggy 130]

Of the goalies you mentioned in those five points, Rinne is the only goaltender who doesn't play for Boston who currently has a better save percentage than Conklin this season. Rinne is also a rookie, and there's no guarantee that he duplicates his performance from this season.

I included those teams because it's POSSIBLE that they could end up with Conklin or someone like him as their starter next year. You chose to read it as meaning all of those teams would get into a bidding war that would make Ty Conklin the highest-paid goaltender or something like that; basically not at all what I meant. I meant that those teams COULD end up looking at him or someone like him. The first list will definitely be looking at goalies like Conklin, and that's why he won't be a Wing.

No, I told you it wasn't possible. When did I mention bidding wars? When did I mention highest-paid goaltender? You're so bad at this sometimes.

[eva unit zero 271]

No, I told you it wasn't possible. When did I mention bidding wars? When did I mention highest-paid goaltender? You're so bad at this sometimes.

Boston will have approximately $13,612,000m to sign Phil Kessel, P.J. Axelsson, David Krejci, two depth defensemen, and two goaltenders (hopefully including Thomas) and we'll say $1.1m of that number is committed to signing two league-minimum defensemen.

The current combined salary for the four players I named there is $6,933,333. All four have had very good seasons, and will get raises. This would leave approximately $5.5m to take care of the raises for the four players. Assume each player gets an equal portion of the $5.5m; that would put Thomas at $2.375m for his cap hit. Do you think a Vezina contender, perhaps winner, stays around for that deal if another team offers him a contract worth $6m or more per year for a few years?