2/21 GDT: Red Wings 2 at Wild 5

[Vladifan 680]

Zidlicky

High sticky

Let's get a goal quicky.

It shouldn't be tricky

For Raffy and Nicky.

I felt poetic. Maybe it'll work.

Fifty-Five Fan

With it you ran.

You found yes, you can

And you be da man!

[union drone 0]

0-for-5 on the power play really shows how bad the offense was tonight.

We had some good chances on the PP in the first half of the 2nd period. Hudler had a couple really good looks but didn't find the back of the net. Hossa had one really good chance. Somebody else (Zetterberg??) was at the side of the net with lots of daylight and had it hop over his stick.

At that point, the Wings had the momentum. If any of these go in, we might have had a much different outcome tonight. Bad bounces. Not that this excuses the bad play that was the rest of the game...

[Mike 0]

Lenio was given the 2nd goal, so he had 2 pts tonight

Really? I thought the replay showed that he never touched it. Interesting, but a good game for Leino. He is showing that he deserves a roster spot.

[union drone 0]

Fifty-Five Fan

With it you ran.

You found yes, you can

And you be da man!

all coming from Vladifan!

it even rhymes!!

[YoungGuns1340 1]

0-for-5 on the power play tells the story of the offensive woes tonight.

Or it tells the story of Minny's #1 PK and #1 GAA.

[Carman 387]

Or it tells the story of Minny's #1 PK and #1 GAA.

NO IT MUST BE THE RED WINGS ARE THE WORST TEAM EVER. THE SKY IS FALLING, THERE IS NO MORE OIL. OBAMA ISN'T CHANGING ANYTHING. I HATE MY LIFE.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Carman

[Mike 0]

Or it tells the story of Minny's #1 PK and #1 GAA.

Good teams find a way around that. The Wings just played poorly tonight.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Mike

[Mark B 0]

Buy yourself a drink. Cool off a bit. And think how much better you'll feel after Conks shuts out the Sharks a few nights from now.

I like the way you think,I would forget all about tonights game if they kick the crap out of the sharks!!!! Thanks,

[Shaman 713]

NO IT MUST BE THE RED WINGS ARE THE WORST TEAM EVER. THE SKY IS FALLING, THERE IS NO MORE OIL. OBAMA ISN'T CHANGING ANYTHING. I HATE MY LIFE.

Exactly, ive been saying these exact words for years....

[Vladifan 680]

Malts with the other assist, for all the haters out there.

And whaaat did I say about Leino on the 4th line? Anybody? Anybody??

(...like anyone gives a s***.....WAAAAHHHHH!....)

Anyways and OK, so I was wrong about Kopy but I am very happy for the three of 'em. I'm still reading posts but the 3rd and 4th lines were the only ones doing anything tonight.

[fill-a-pulla 0]

of the 9 games jimmy howard has played for the wings, he started 7 and came in for ozzie 2 times

2005-2006: shots saves

J. Howard 16 13 (came in for osgood, we lost the game 7-6 to atlanta)

J. Howard 28 26 (lost to islanders 2-1)

J. Howard 36 33 (lost to flames 3-2)

J. Howard 24 22 (won against kings 5-2)

2007-2008: shots saves (he played 4 games during our February stretch when everyone was injured)

J. Howard 19 18 (came in after gave up 3 goals on 4 shots, lost to nashville 4-2)

J. Howard 10 9 (came in after gave up 4 goals on 13 shots, lost to jackets 5-1)

J. Howard 31 30 (lost to dallas 1-0, best game of his career)

J. Howard 35 31 (lost to canucks 4-1)

None of the games he played previously were bad, this was probably his only bad game and everyone is ready to declare him a bad goalie. just because his record 1-5 doesn't mean his bad. If we go by record, then no one will be complaining about ozzie. can we take a step back and look at his previous starts before we consider him bad.

Edited February 22, 2009 by fill-a-pulla

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

What happened? Wings were not skating, shied away from contact with the wild and the puck, looked like a bunch of pylons, were lazy and basically sucked. Very bad game. I bet they kick the crap out of the Sharks on Wendsday.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

What happened? Wings were not skating, shied away from contact with the wild and the puck, looked like a bunch of pylons, were lazy and basically sucked. Very bad game. I bet they kick the crap out of the Sharks on Wendsday.

Pretty much, but you have to give the Wild credit. There was an article about them on NHL.com a few days ago. They blew a 3-0 lead, ended up losing 5-3, then had 4 days off to stew about the loss, and the fact that they have a ridiculously tough schedule that will determine their playoff fate over the next 10 games. All that together made them play like their pants were on fire. I think that might've been the best I've ever seen a Wild team play.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

of the 9 games jimmy howard has played for the wings, he started 7 and came in for ozzie 2 times

2005-2006: shots saves

J. Howard 16 13 (came in for osgood, we lost the game 7-6 to atlanta)

J. Howard 28 26 (lost to islanders 2-1)

J. Howard 36 33 (lost to flames 3-2)

J. Howard 24 22 (won against kings 5-2)

2007-2008: shots saves (he played 4 games during our February stretch when everyone was injured)

J. Howard 19 18 (came in after gave up 3 goals on 4 shots, lost to nashville 4-2)

J. Howard 10 9 (came in after gave up 4 goals on 13 shots, lost to jackets 5-1)

J. Howard 31 30 (lost to dallas 1-0, best game of his career)

J. Howard 35 31 (lost to canucks 4-1)

None of the games he played previously were bad, this was probably his only bad game and everyone is ready to declare him a bad goalie. just because his record 1-5 doesn't mean his bad. If we go by record, then no one will be complaining about ozzie. can we take a step back and look at his previous starts before we consider him bad.

I think this was his worst game to date. Like you said, hes played some great games for us in the past. The entire squad played piss poor and the Wild played great. All in all, its a terrible game to use as a measuring stick for Howard - and I'm not a big fan of Howard either.

[Vladifan 680]

Canucks and Leafs all tied up at 2 a piece and are going to a shootout. Pretty good game. It's Sundin's first game back in Toronto too.

I heard they cheered Sundin when he got the GW goal. So there was at least one shining moment on the ice tonight.

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

Pretty much, but you have to give the Wild credit. There was an article about them on NHL.com a few days ago. They blew a 3-0 lead, ended up losing 5-3, then had 4 days off to stew about the loss, and the fact that they have a ridiculously tough schedule that will determine their playoff fate over the next 10 games. All that together made them play like their pants were on fire. I think that might've been the best I've ever seen a Wild team play.

yep. and prolly the worst the Wings have played all year. Tongue in cheek, of course, but it's almost like they tried to lose tonite.

[Vladifan 680]

I hope they make the 8th seed and San Jose get to play them first round. Minny can wear you down and a solid D can take you far in the playoffs. I really do not want to play them in the playoffs though.

I was pondering the same possibility. Great minds and all that....

[Vladifan 680]

For the most part, Roloson is a solid goalie who gives it his all every time he plays.

Yeah. Ask Cleary.

[waitahochiminute 2]

Gotta tell ya, Im not thrilled which Jimmy Howard at all after tonights performance. I used to think hes a good youngster to keep around but wow...I kinda wanna see what Daniel Larsson has to offer in the NHL

[Duck Guy 86]

Bad loss but the next game should be a very good one...... or a very bad one O.o lolz

[shadow47 1]

Howard didn't play poorly tonight. This entire board was either waiting to throw Osgood under the bus (if Howard got a shutout) OR say JH completely sucks (if Howard managed to lose to the 'pisspoor Wild offense'). The fact is the same story happened with Detroit giving up numerous clear opportunities or not cutting passes. Howard was no worse than either Wings goaltender this season, which is not to equate Conklin and Osgood because we've all seen the same games but Jimmy is just a cog in the team defense. He's not being given a real chance here, they're jerking him around up and down instead of giving him an opportunity to settle in and get familiar with the NHL. From my point of view that kind of treatment is detrimental to a player's development. There is a significant speed difference between the leagues, this really was to be expected. OsGreat will come back in two weeks and continue to try to give away games, Conklin will keep being so-so and Detroit will try to win a Cup with it's worst goaltending since the early 90s. Like we all expected.

[Probie 7]

Howard didn't play poorly tonight. This entire board was either waiting to throw Osgood under the bus (if Howard got a shutout) OR say JH completely sucks (if Howard managed to lose to the 'pisspoor Wild offense'). The fact is the same story happened with Detroit giving up numerous clear opportunities or not cutting passes. Howard was no worse than either Wings goaltender this season, which is not to equate Conklin and Osgood because we've all seen the same games but Jimmy is just a cog in the team defense. He's not being given a real chance here, they're jerking him around up and down instead of giving him an opportunity to settle in and get familiar with the NHL. From my point of view that kind of treatment is detrimental to a player's development. There is a significant speed difference between the leagues, this really was to be expected. OsGreat will come back in two weeks and continue to try to give away games, Conklin will keep being so-so and Detroit will try to win a Cup with it's worst goaltending since the early 90s. Like we all expected.

Exactly Howard should have had one of the four goals tonight, but three against him considering the situation and the opportunities is acceptable. You cant judge a player based on one game. Howard has talent, he needs more then one game this year before he gets hung out to dry. His 2005 stats are "ok" but he didnt even play that much and he JUST got out of College, and in 07 his stats are quite good in four games. In fact the same save%, 0.926 would land him ahead of backstrom(4th best in the league) and behind Vakoon(3rd best) this year. hardly bad. The only way you can evaluate a player is if you play them. Below are howards stats for Detroit.

2005 Detroit NHL 4 1 2 2.99 0.904

2007 Detroit NHL 4 0 2 2.13 0.926

"

OsGreat will come back in two weeks and continue to try to give away games, Conklin will keep being so-so and Detroit will try to win a Cup with it's worst goaltending since the early 90s. Like we all expected."

It will try and fail. Team defense is not close to last year, the lines aren't jelling as well as last year either they are constantly being juggled and our main competitors(sharks) have got better, Boston is going to be very hard to beat as well. We are winning games based on talent and offensive firepower, not on balanced team play. Its a team game, and weaknesses are exploited, and we were well rounded last year, we could beat you with both offense and defense, now its offense almost exclusively with a few stellar defensive and goaltending jems thrown in for fun. Our penalty killing is a SERIOUS problem that can sink us in the playoffs quickly. I hope our defense is somehow strengthened at the deadline although it wont be easy to do. I also prey our goaltending is strengthened at the deadline too, but with Osgoods status/situation it makes it hard to move him and make room for another goalie. It sounds goofy and wont happen, but if Osgood cant pull it together real quick(i doubt he can but hope he can), i wish he could almost fake a lengthy injury to make room to bring in another goalie...yeah i know its not feasible but it could work. I think we wont make it out of the western conference this playoff, and Ive been watching this team since 1989, unless these weaknesses get fixed or atleast improved upon we wont make it out of the western conference finals. I can see the difference in play of the team this year, and they are good, but they are not going to make it.

If somehow we could rent a backstrom or Roloson for the playoffs,...something that wouldnt cost us an arm and a leg Id feel much better.

We deemed Quincy unworthy after all of 13 games in the nhl, 1 game in 05, 6 in 06, and 6 more in 07. He was only minus for one of those three years too. Was he worse then meech or Chelios(this years version) or even Lebda? Not really. And if given more then 6 games in a year maybe he would have gotten better, sat out a game or to learn, and then hop back in there. I think Howard stopped developing and sufferered "rot" in the ahl after he got sent down last. Seems the only way the new guys stick here is if they clearly outplay the current players. Now after ONE game they are sending howard down, in a game everyone and their blind grandma knows the team(especially defense) was poor. After ONE game. How about playing him for more then one game or atleast play him in a game where the team shows up and then you can evaluate him better. I could see if Howard gave up 7 goals tonight, but he gave up 4, in reality I felt the wild should have scored 3 with the chances they had. This is not proper player development. I truly feel that this teams strategy on who plays "now" is based on short term results with winning at all costs at the present being the deciding factor. In other words "the opportunity for a youngster to come in a for say 20 games, and maybe suck a bit at first, learn a bit adjust a for a while, then towards the end of the season improve enough to surpass the veteran hes maybe challenging" this never happens cause we are too worried about the short term and not the long term. Go look at Quincy:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Kyle_Quincey/

Hes on pace for 45 points in 79 games, closer to 50 if it was a full year, plus hes a plus player on a weaker then average team. How is that for development. let the kids play and they can show you what they are capable of. Lets look at his successor/replacement Meech:

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/players/Derek_Meech/

If Meech played 84 games this year ON THE SUPERIOR REDWINGS at his pace he would have 9 points and be -8

If Quicny played 84 games ON THE INFERIOR LOS ANGELAS KINGS at his pace he would have 48 points, and be +2

What would Quincy stats be like if he was getting top four minuted on this team? And yes I know Meech doesnt play defense all the time, and our D is deeper than then kings and Q wouldnt get the same offensive opportunities but you know what I'm getting at.

On another note, I must say, Holland and Babcock want to do everything to win this year with this current team of players cause its so loaded with talent since we will lose a couple players at years end due to the cap. But Babcock and Holland perhaps think they have the same team as last year(plus Hossa), but they dont have that team regardless of the names on the jerseys, they have a more offensively talented team(with Hossa and Lieno-depth) which is not as good defensively this year nor does it have the same goaltending, so in reality if he wants to go all out take off the blinders see it for what it is and make the changes. Osgood was brought here in his last stint with Detroit as a backup, and thats what he is. Goalies can be hot and cold, and have really good stretches. Osgood was the back up last year, hasek was shot, and Ozzie came into the playoffs and was red hot, and no one can take that away from him. Butbackups are inconsistent. Now out of that great performance hes seen as the go to guy this year with Conk the back up. But osgood is just a back up, and NOW hes showing you thats what he is, he is very incosistent, which backups are. Now we bring in a career backup in conklin, he plays on a very good team and his stats are going to improve because of this, plus he plays kinda hot this year. Pople think wow, this guy can take us to the playoffs, But hes a backup, and they are inconsistent, and get cold, and what if Conklin the backup shows up in the playoffs? You want to roll the dice with osgood this year as a replacement to COnks if he turns into Mr backup come the playoffs? No way. Detroit has erred in their goalie pholosophy this year, a back up having a good year on a good team is still a back up. Why enter the playoffs with two backups? Conks is a backup playing above his usualu self this year for now, on a good team which helps his stats, but he can cool off and be his backup self. If they could get Backstrom or even a low end starting goalie ike Ellis(yeah i know he hasnt been as good this year as last) to back up Conks in the playoffs or lead the team into it, I would feel much more comfortable. Ellis has got what a 0.905 % this year, which would be a .913 or so on this team, which is not bad, hes not a huge addition but hes not bad, and hes got a 1.5mill cap it. Perhaps if this team hadnt a better go to goalie all these years, they wouldnt have 4 cups from 95-96 onwards they would have maybe a couple more.,..look at the talent on those teams it was rediculous.

If the wings made one trade of a veteran player to improve the team, i really believe the team will not be considered to be unloyal, they still have a great track record. I hope they can see this and not hurt the team out of some blind sense of loyalty. Players get traided, waived, it happens. The team comes first not stubborness. So in the future do we let all our top guys just fade out and we get nothing in return ever? Its hard to dominate when you pick at the very bottom, and just let all these players ride off into sunset for nothing unless you have insanely dominant drafting-we have great but not that good. This team has done lots for Osgood already, go out and improve the goalie situation, atleast somewhat. You wont have another wing team this talented again for a while with this economy and cap direction. Our offense is insanely talented, we could lose a Filpula to make room for a goalie without our offense not being #1 still in the league IMO, it wont make a diff. Go out and get a world class goalie or atleast improve on it until the kids (Howard Larson or McCollum) are ready.

Edited February 22, 2009 by Probie

[puckloo39 5,686]

Howard takes it like a man

he takes his part of the responsibility for last night, even takes the heat for the goal Rafalski and Dats were the biggest part of. They're the big club guys, and they didn't do anything about Bouchard after Hossa handed him the puck.

I still believe Jimmy can be an NHL goalie, too. At least one I would like to see on my team.

Edited February 22, 2009 by puckloo39

[Yak19 303]

Way to suck one away.

[Shaman 713]

Probie, Quincey and Howard 2 different players, again you guys look at stats never look at the actual play in the AHL, Howard has always been a very streaky goalie, he will have 5 great games, and 5 piss poor games, and I doubt he will ever be a solid #1 in the NHL.

Look at it this way, if Kenny had confidence in Howard, why did we pick up Conklin when we were already tight against the cap?