3/7 GDT: Blue Jackets 8 at Red Wings 2

[chrisdetroit 189]

Neither Wings goalie is good Eva. It's just Osgood is worse.

How do you define good? No, neither is a superstar but Conklin is #17 in the league in save % and #8 in GAA.

You really should base your opinions on some facts.

[steveyzerman 0]

Giveaways:

Columbus - 2

Detroit - 14

Hm.

[ben_usmc 253]

You're not getting anyone new at this point! Why don't you try making the best of it in the meantime then, eh!? Novel idea.

Well we could have given Howard a better look; not that I think he would be worlds better, but who knows maybe he comes in on fire if given more then a single game. We could rely on more Conklin who isn't a world beater but certainly has been better then Ozzy this season. Listen I would love for Ozzy to just turn it on in the last few games and play as good as he did last year; which really he could have won the Smythe if it weren't for Z's amazing 5 on 3 act. But you can't hedge your bents on hopes at the moment, you have to go with what is safe. We hoped last year and then pulled Hasek when hope failed, went with the guy who many believed couldn't bring us to the cup despite his amazing play during the season. Now this year Ozzy is Hasek and Conklin is Ozzy.

Thoughts after tonight's game:

Our incredible offense bailing us out night after night at the start of the season has finally caught up with us. This is what happens in games where we turn into "average/normal" offense and can't score 5+ goals every night.

I love Ozzie a lot. I have loved him since I was a tiny child. However, if he wants to be a Stanley Cup winning goalie again, he's gonna have to learn how to bail out his team when the defense is terrible. That is a goalie's job-to be the last resort of defense. We should not be able to call a goal on a breakaway before he even shoots. Even Dom stopped those.

I don't care that Conklin is a career backup. So was Ozzie for the majority of his career and he got us two Cups. I don't understand how people still want Ozzie in net in spite of his obvious decline from last year. But at the same time, these same people are worried about Conklin not performing well in the playoffs when he hasn't really given us a reason to doubt him so far this season. It blows my mind.

Back at the first half of the season everyone said we would be fine and to not worry until March. It is now March, yet it still isn't appropriate to worry because we are "fair weather fans." So when exactly is it okay to start worrying? When we are down three games to one in the first round?

Watchmen wasn't really that good.

I agree with everything you have said, except The Watchmen was simply amazing your taste in movies sir . But your opinion the goalie situation

Sandman what did you expect the players to say, Oh Ozzy blows and we can't let a shot go in the zone or else it's in the net. No you damn well no players especially on Detroit don't call each other out to the media like that, don't pretend to be so niave.

Lastly just because the entire team plays bad doesn't mean some can't play worse then others. I mean Draper has been pathetic for majority of the season, Flip follows up with his disappointment after getting a nice raise. Maltby barely plays with heart unless it's a big game. My man Datsyuk was playing out of this world until the last 3 games he hasn't been himself, just had to throw out that even our great players have had a bad night or two recently. Raffy just might as well play as a foward. Don't even get me started with how ******* lazy Franzen played yesterday, Ozzy has been horrible the entire season except maybe 2 games, basically my point once again is just because one person has played like s*** doesn't mean the other person has played any less like s***. Raffy screwed Ozzy a lot yesterday, but godforbid we expected a goalie to actually you know steal even a decent shot; that goes for conklin too.

[chrisdetroit 189]

When was the last time a "team" with the worst save percentage and 2nd worst goals against average won th

Stanley Cup?

What do the Toronto Maple Leafs have to do with it? You shouldn't make up stuff to make your point. You lose your credibility

[chrisdetroit 189]

I honestly don't think Wings will win the cup again this year, and I said this before they even started the season. It's tough for a team to win the cup back to back and even tougher to win it in the cap era.

If they do somehow magically pull it off, I will be a very happy fan!

All I ask for is a decent playoff run, and hopefully make it to the WCF so we can watch lots of hockey.

P.S. if any team can pull of a back to back cup win, it is the Detroit Red Wings.

Going out on a limb there huh? The BEST odds of picking any 1 team to win the cup are what 4:1 or 5:1.

With those odds, anybody can pick a team to NOT win the cup. Let's see you pick a team to win the cup.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

Nice to see the team takes responsibility and admits they left the "goalie out to dry".

Who knows, if the goalie made some key saves to keep his team in the game, then maybe they'd have woken up eventually. Right now the team is behind the 8 ball in every game knowing that their goalie can't stop anything.

Of course the team is struggling in several areas, but he's been worse than any other player on the team this season. Being the goalie, he's also more important than any of those other players, hence he'll get more of the blame. We can still win if Flip, Draper or Kopecky or some other guy suck, but we can't win if Ozzie sucks come playoff time.

[aflac9262 211]

Giveaways:

Columbus - 2

Detroit - 14

Hm.

Pretty much the story of the game.

[Wingsallwin 0]

Neither Wings goalie is good Eva. It's just Osgood is worse.

You are just Osgood protector and Conklin basher. Is stats a joke? Around 2.33 GAA and .914 save percentage is enough. Conklin has not been terrific but enough. How about Osgood? Enough? What a pathetic statement that would be. He has been the worst goalie of the season from the beginning of the season to now and maybe to the end of this season and be a failure.

What I am saying is it is good you still support Osgood, but do not underestimate Conklin' this season's performance. 6 shutouts are not jokes. Few of those games were against weak teams but let me list teams: Sharks, Hawks, Kings, Oilers, Blue Jackets, Blues(I think?). Can you say so many s***ty teams here? Not many probably. Sharks, Hawks are good teams and BJ just beat us when Osgood is in the net.

Do not remember who said Conklin was lucky because he played against weak teams and I agree some but is Sharks, Hakws, and Blue Jackets are camouflaged to the weak teams when I did not watch Hockey?

Then ok, if my statement is wrong, by your logic, Osgood is worse. Then who do we have to build the confidence on? Osgood? Because of experience? Then we may better bring up Cujo and build the confidence on him

[sixer 37]

Giveaways:

Columbus - 2

Detroit - 14

Hm.

So?????

Sat night

Edmonton 11 giveways against Leafs and still won with Roloson saving 40 shots......hmm

When we were down 2-0 last night, Mason came up large, stopping it from being 2-1. Huge difference from being down 4-0.

[ben_usmc 253]

The reason I am not as worried about the defense as I am about the goaltending is that the defense has proven it can tighten up when it wants to. There have been times this year when our defense played better then anytime last year, but the goaltending not once has anyone on here said Ozzy stole that game for us.

[Ms_Hockey 0]

In words of Henrik Zetterberg, this game was "disgusting".

And, in the words of Babcock, "Ozzie was hung out to dry"... which is absolutely true. The same way Conklin was hung out to dry in the 8-0 defeat in Nashville. You can't blame Ozzie for the loss. The game was a carbon copy of the game in Nashville and even Conklin couldn't do anything about it. Two different goalies; Same outcome.

A top 10 goalie would feel good, but it won't fix the team's defensive struggles. However, if they're going to play like they have no idea what the word "defense" means, I suggest letting Hossa go and getting that top 10 goalie, because that's what they're going to need with that type of play.

On the other hand, why didn't Babcock take Osgood out after 3-4 goals? If for nothing else than to not hurt his stats?

[Rivalred 630]

In words of Henrik Zetterberg, this game was "disgusting".

And, in the words of Babcock, "Ozzie was hung out to dry"... which is absolutely true. The same way Conklin was hung out to dry in the 8-0 defeat in Nashville. You can't blame Ozzie for the loss. The game was a carbon copy of the game in Nashville and even Conklin couldn't do anything about it. Two different goalies; Same outcome.

A top 10 goalie would feel good, but it won't fix the team's defensive struggles. However, if they're going to play like they have no idea what the word "defense" means, I suggest letting Hossa go and getting that top 10 goalie, because that's what they're going to need with that type of play.

On the other hand, why didn't Babcock take Osgood out after 3-4 goals? If for nothing else than to not hurt his stats?

What is ironic, what Henrik and Babs said was exactly what I said last week and about the Wild game about 4-5 weeks back. The D was terrible and they hung the goalie out to dry. Way too many turnovers. And you even got on my case about it with other members.

Try debating/arguing your way out of that one.... When the coach and the players state the same thing that I have been preaching for sometime now is hard to dismiss.

And as I said before, Babs left Chris in because it was not his fault. Pulling Osgood would not do anything for his confidence and by not pulling him Babs was sending a message to the rest of the team "it is not Osgood, it is the rest of you."

/rant

Edited March 8, 2009 by Rivalred

[Ms_Hockey 0]

What is ironic, what Henrik and Babs said was exactly what I said last week and about the Wild game about 4-5 weeks back. The D was terrible and they hung the goalie out to dry. Way too many turnovers. And you even got on my case about it with other members.

Try debating/arguing your way out of that one.... When the coach and the players state the same thing that I have been preaching for sometime now is hard to dismiss.

And as I said before, Babs left Chris in because it was not his fault. Pulling Osgood would not do anything for his confidence and by not pulling him Babs was sending a message to the rest of the team "it is not Osgood, it is the rest of you."

/rant

Tell you what.. I'll just admit that you were right. I didn't expect the team to go through another one of these embarrassing losses - but alas! We have. I'm not going to be stupid enough to say "Okay, it's only TWO. Let's forget about it!" One, sure - I can pretend it never happened. But not two.

I don't think it was Osgood's fault, either. I was just a bit confused. In my mind, I wouldn't want Osgood to take the beating to his stats. Not only that, but maybe the vain hope that a goalie switch would make the team think "Okay, let's turn a new page and re-start ourselves." But your guess is as good as mine.

[Rivalred 630]

Tell you what.. I'll just admit that you were right. I didn't expect the team to go through another one of these embarrassing losses - but alas! We have. I'm not going to be stupid enough to say "Okay, it's only TWO. Let's forget about it!" One, sure - I can pretend it never happened. But not two.

I don't think it was Osgood's fault, either. I was just a bit confused. In my mind, I wouldn't want Osgood to take the beating to his stats. Not only that, but maybe the vain hope that a goalie switch would make the team think "Okay, let's turn a new page and re-start ourselves." But your guess is as good as mine.

There is more to games than stats... Sorry, but a lot of things have to do with psychology also. Why do you think players use black tape? Goalies use multi-colored pads? Teams press hard early, hit hard, or there are fights? Hell, I use shoot the puck at the goalies head on purpose to screw with em...

I fully do not believe someone will understand the game as a whole unless they live and breath the game. As in playing and working with it. I have had the benefit of playing hockey (not professional of course) for a few years before a tragic car accident stopped me from playing. I also worked for the commissioner of the CCHA for 2 yrs that exposed me to various experiences.

There are other members who have played the game or still do and understand it, know it, and value reading into a play or being 2-3 steps a head of another team.

Edited March 8, 2009 by Rivalred

[uk_redwing 495]

I think we're getting away from the point that Downey should be on the first line?

[Rivalred 630]

I think we're getting away from the point that Downey should be on the first line?

If he has not played on the 1st line in Grand Rapids, what makes you think he will play on the 1st line in the NHL, especially on this Wings team?

Seriously...

[uk_redwing 495]

If he has not played on the 1st line in Grand Rapids, what makes you think he will play on the 1st line in the NHL, especially on this Wings team?

Seriously...

Well...he has played on the first line in Grand Rapids...quite alot.

And are you actually suggesting theres some sort of reason that Downey may not be first line material? Did you not see his goal? Hes primed and ready for the first line. He'll sort out these blowouts. Best form of defence is offense.

[ben_usmc 253]

sorry I still don't agree with you, as bad as the defense was the goalie should at least be able to steal one, at least one goal. That has not happened, pretty much any time there is a break away or remotely a set up in the zone you can count it as a goal. You can blame the d all you want but, your never going to go an entire game with out letting any scoring chances. Just like you can't expect a goalie to have a shut out every single game. But to be able and safely assume that if the puck is in our zone that theres a good chance its a goal is just bad, some should be blamed on the defense, but much more is the goalies fault. There soul purpose is to stop anything that the defense lets through, one person has been somewhat capable (conklin) the other not even remotly capable (Oz).

I don't know what is with this undying loyalty to certain players when it is painfully obvious the game is passing them by. Maybe they can turn it around but I would rather play it safe and assume they can't, if that doesn't work we can through the maybe card on the table. We have better Dman in the minors then we do on the big club, we have better fowards then we do in the big club, and it would be nice to see if maybe we have better goaltenders then we do in the big club.

Edited March 8, 2009 by ben_usmc

[Rivalred 630]

Well...he has played on the first line in Grand Rapids...quite alot.

And are you actually suggesting theres some sort of reason that Downey may not be first line material? Did you not see his goal? Hes primed and ready for the first line. He'll sort out these blowouts. Best form of defence is offense.

He is not a regular on the 1st line in Grand Rapids from my knowledge (though been wrong before) and a lot of people know that he is not 1st line material.

We all know you would give it up to Downey, so there is bias.

[uk_redwing 495]

He is not a regular on the 1st line in Grand Rapids from my knowledge (though been wrong before) and a lot of people know that he is not 1st line material.

We all know you would give it up to Downey, so there is bias.

He has played on a line with Helm and Leino in GR quite a number of times this season.

And Ive already posted somewhere that if Downey can get 2 points in 4 games with 5mins per game then if he was the first line getting 20 mins a game he would be on for 200 points a season at least using simple logic. And obviously now we've seen his amazing screening and tip in skills, theres no reason why he shouldnt see PP time.

Edited March 8, 2009 by uk_redwing

[ben_usmc 253]

He is not a regular on the 1st line in Grand Rapids from my knowledge (though been wrong before) and a lot of people know that he is not 1st line material.

We all know you would give it up to Downey, so there is bias.

Not that I think he should be on the 1st line, but I really think Babcock needs to reward hardworkers and punish lazy ones much more. Therefore I would premote Downey to the 3rd line, bump Franzen down to the 3rd line, and etc. Downey has earned a spot through pure hardwork isn't that what everyone loves about Cleary is ethic (not that i believe Downey is in the same universe in skill) so why can't the same be said for Downey. Franzen really pissed me off lately because he has played so damn lazy so he deserves to get a boot in the ass. Basically Babs should start sittin mofos if they play like s*** for a long period time unless there names are Datsyuk, Z, Hossa, Lids

[ben_usmc 253]

He has played on a line with Helm and Leino in GR quite a number of times this season.

And Ive already posted somewhere that if Downey can get 2 points in 4 games with 5mins per game then if he was the first line getting 20 mins a game he would be on for 200 points a season at least using simple logic. And obviously now we've seen his amazing screening and tip in skills, theres no reason why he shouldnt see PP time.

I'd be willing to bet he'd have more points then Maltby or Draper if put in one of there spots for as long as they were this season; especially if he got to play with Leino/Helm which is where they started getting some points.

Edited March 8, 2009 by ben_usmc

[P. Marlowe 748]

[ben_usmc 253]

Babcock should have bit someone in the face just to let them know he isn't happy.

[Guest Shoreline]

Reverse the score. Same face.