Is Franzen worth 4 Mill?

[softshoes 83]

It's a blessing and a curse.

Franzen is 100% a bonafide $4 mil player.

Everybody is always clamoring for that big, strong power forward type. Well guess what, that's what Franzen is. He just isn't overly physical and doesn't fight.

You take his great size at prolly 220lbs, above average skating ability for a big man, great hands, especially in tight, an accurate wrist shot, stands in front of the net, excellent at tipping pucks, can pass the puck, dangle enough to get people to miss, doesn't take stupid penalties....AND, he works hard on the backcheck, plays strong D and kills penalties to go along with being a legit 25-30+ goal man. He's worth every penny of 4 million.

You see it in this thread with the figures people are throwing out at 3-3.5 mil. We all KNOW that is a hometown discount. From that it's easy to do the math that another 500K or 1 mil is nothing for him to get on the open market. He'll get it and maybe then some if we can't re sign him.

He's become quite the diamond in the rough. I just hope we don't lose him. And yes, would rather have Hossa but Franzen is a fantastic player.

+1

Why waste my time typing when this is point on. If we can't sign him he'll get 4 mil/per easy, if he has another strong playoff run then it's a no brainer.

[rage 24]

Thats my one concern. We already have #40 locked up until he's 40 at 6 mil/ year. I think if the Wings throw out another long term deal to either Franz or especially Hossa, it might come back and bite them down the road and jeopardize future signings.

I would take Franz at 4 mil for 3-5 years

Exactly.

[eva unit zero 271]

Franzen probably gets at least $3.5m per year when he signs. The problem is that the Wings absolutely cannot afford to sign both Franzen and Hossa, and Hossa is the better player. So unless Hossa walks or signs a ridiculous deal, Franzen is not a Red Wing next year without significant roster reshaping.

[Guest mindfly]

Franzen probably gets at least $3.5m per year when he signs. The problem is that the Wings absolutely cannot afford to sign both Franzen and Hossa, and Hossa is the better player. So unless Hossa walks or signs a ridiculous deal, Franzen is not a Red Wing next year without significant roster reshaping.

Capsapce ~10million

Hossa longterm 6M

Franzen longterm 3M

let hudler (may get a 1st round pick and more), samuelsson go, helm and leino get permanent spots... problem solved

[Doggy 130]

Capsapce ~10million

Hossa longterm 6M

Franzen longterm 3M

let hudler (may get a 1st round pick and more), samuelsson go, helm and leino get permanent spots... problem solved

That's a best case scenario. I'd rather let Franzen or Hossa go than Hudler depending on the kind of money they demand. You can't just spend all your money on 4 or 5 guys long term or you'll be stuck with a crap supporting cast and end up like Tampa.

We'll also need to pray the cap doesn't go down too much.

[dat's sick 1,002]

That's a best case scenario. I'd rather let Franzen or Hossa go than Hudler depending on the kind of money they demand. You can't just spend all your money on 4 or 5 guys long term or you'll be stuck with a crap supporting cast and end up like Tampa.

We'll also need to pray the cap doesn't go down too much.

Holland has said he will only sign one (at most) of Hossa and Franzen before the off-season when they find out if the cap goes down or not.

After Hudler's great season I don't think he will be much cheaper than Franzen.. it might be a "whoever takes less, stays"-situation between the two of them.

Sadly I think we might have to lose Hudler + Hossa or Franzen, in order to afford a solution to the goaltending issue.

[Nev 1,085]

Is Franzen worth 4 Mill?

Not if we sign Hossa first. If we can't sign Hossa, then yes, and we probly keep Sammy and maybe Hudler as well.

On the open market? He could easily bag a $5M deal.

[Doggy 130]

Holland has said he will only sign one (at most) of Hossa and Franzen before the off-season when they find out if the cap goes down or not.

After Hudler's great season I don't think he will be much cheaper than Franzen.. it might be a "whoever takes less, stays"-situation between the two of them.

Sadly I think we might have to lose Hudler + Hossa or Franzen, in order to afford a solution to the goaltending issue.

Firstly, Hudler will be an RFA so he will be cheaper to retain. If a team offers him $4m, as is what is being discussed for Franzen, they have to give up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for it. No team would do that for Hudler, it's insane. Worst case scenario is Hudler gets $2.6m.

Second, this team cannot go out and spend big bucks on a goalie. Ozzie is signed through next season and we even though Howard probably won't be what we were hoping, Larsson and McCollum are great prospects in goal. Furthermore, this team doesn't need a Luongo-priced goalie to win a Cup, and with a cap you can no longer pay for things you don't need.

The fact is the cap probably won't go down much if it does. The 2010/11 season will probably be the one with the noticeable drop.

[dat's sick 1,002]

Firstly, Hudler will be an RFA so he will be cheaper to retain. If a team offers him $4m, as is what is being discussed for Franzen, they have to give up a 1st, 2nd and 3rd for it. No team would do that for Hudler, it's insane. Worst case scenario is Hudler gets $2.6m.

Second, this team cannot go out and spend big bucks on a goalie. Ozzie is signed through next season and we even though Howard probably won't be what we were hoping, Larsson and McCollum are great prospects in goal. Furthermore, this team doesn't need a Luongo-priced goalie to win a Cup, and with a cap you can no longer pay for things you don't need.

I'm not thinking they should get a 6-mil goalie, but there are some good ones that I'm sure could be gotten for about the same money Franzen wants.

If they decide to go with an Ozzie/Howard tandem for next year I hope they leave some wiggle room so they can atleast go out and get a goalie at the deadline if it turns out Ozzie has another year like this and Howard doesn't step up big-time.

Larsson or McCollum won't be the solution next season.

(Sorry btw, didn't mean to make this into yet another goalie discussion)

I didn't consider Huds was a RFA, so yeah he'll probably be cheaper to sign than the Mule. Still, signing them both AND Hossa would most likely put us right up against the cap wouldn't it?

[Doggy 130]

I didn't consider Huds was a RFA, so yeah he'll probably be cheaper to sign than the Mule. Still, signing them both AND Hossa would most likely put us right up against the cap wouldn't it?

Most likely not a possibility to sign all three.

Larsson could be more ready than Howard. But yeah, McCollum is a baby he's a years from the NHL.

[bellarina 1]

What he is worth is what someone is willing to pay for him. Lowe might give him 7 mil a year. LOL

[Phazon 24]

didnt flip get 3.5 million? that is a horrible deal in retrospect. Hollands worst deal.

[Doggy 130]

didnt flip get 3.5 million? that is a horrible deal in retrospect. Hollands worst deal.

It was $3m and has been discussed ad nauseum in another thread. Talk about it there if you really want.

[Frozen-Man 144]

Lets take a looksy here...(Note: All stats taken from TSN, and all cap figures from nhlnumbers.com)

Johan Franzen-Age 29

Franzen Last Season

72GP 27G 11A 38P +12 13.57% Shooting...Post Season: 16GP 13G 5S 18P +13 18.57% Shooting

Franzen This Season:

56GP 27G 16A 43P +11 14.67% Shooting...Projected Stats: 71GP 34G 20A 54P +11 14.59% shooting

Niklas Hagman: Signed Contract at Age 28

Season before contract (2007-08)

82GP 27G 14A 41P +4 15.17% shooting

Left Dallas and Signed with Toronto at 3 million per year for 3 years...(Franzen is worth more than him statistically)

Ryan Malone: Signed Contract at Age 28

Season before contract (2007-08)

77GP 27G 24A 51P +14 16.98% shooting

Left Pittsburgh and Signed with Tampa Bay at 4.5 million per year on average for 7 years (They are mostly equivalent statistically)

J.P. Dumont: Signed contract at Age 30

Season before contract (2007-2008)

80GP 29G 43A 72P +5 15.10% Shooting

Re-signed with Nashville for 4 million per year over 4 years (greater statistically than Franzen since he also gets assists)

Now I know these are all different style players in different situations but one can argue he is worth more than the 3 million of Hagman, less the player who signed a home-town discount in Nashville (dumont) at 4 million but then again more than the grossly overpaid ryan malone...

Thus it is a confusing process...I think that Franzen can site Malone as what he wants more than on the open market, but Holland can state that Dumont has superior stats and took a home town discount of 4...thus Holland can ask him to take less than 4 million...

I see Franz making no more than 4 million but no less than 3.5 million if he stays in detroit...

If he goes open market Johan Franzen will make at least 5 million dollars...

This is an excellent post and provides so very good comparisons for what guys of Mule's caliber signed for last year. My big question is whether any numbers from the last few years (when the economy was ticking up in full force - as were NHL revenues) will be any kind of bench mark for contracts at the end of this season. This was discussed at the recent GM's meeting:

There has been enough discussion about the possibility of a significantly lower cap in 2010-11 that it is altering how general managers might look at moves this summer. "We would be delusional to think we won't see some impact," said Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke. Burke believes there will be the same amount of player movement this season, but he says he will be operating as if there will be a market correction. "Look at how quickly the bad economic news hit baseball. The impact it had on baseball contracts was almost instantaneous," Burke said. "It was within 90 days. There are still good ballplayers out of work."

I wonder if players similar to the $4M guys last year will see anywhere near that kind of money this year. I think that there is a fair shot that guys have to take significantly smaller contracts after this season (and will probably only sign for short terms in hopes that the economy and the cap improves in a few years).

All that being said it makes me kind of nervous (although Kenny and Co. are excellent at their job and will handle it fine) that we might end up with Dats, Z, Raffy, Hoss, and Mule all tied up long term and then the cap take a huge hit in 2010-11. I think that is why Kenny said "we are now debating internally how many long-term deals do we want." I think that there is general nervousness about how low the cap might go (although some hockey experts are saying it may not go down that much - perhaps if there is a TV deal with ESPN) and hopefully that will drive down contract numbers this year.

[VM1138 1,921]

The thing is that most guys who are mostly goal scorers are this way. They go in streaks. You just have to hope that their goalless streak is short and that not everyone is on a bad streak at the same time.

Franzen is also unbelievably clutch, which makes him worth keeping over any flaws he may have, in my mind.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

We need to let Franzen walk ... It'd be amazing for both of em to sign but for the future (cap) and for the present the best move would be to keep Hossa and Hudler over Hossa and Franzen.

Let Franzen walk ... you save about 4-5 million right there. Let Leino replace the talent level of Franzen. Make Helm a starter by not signing sammy that's another 1.4 there. 6 million saved by not re-signing Franzen and Sammy ... I think we're okay for a while and the year after that if lids takes a 2-3 million cap we've got 9-10 million saved up with all the core locked up for a long time.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

In a red wing uniform he's worth about 3-3.5M

Good good...

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Franzen is also unbelievably clutch, which makes him worth keeping over any flaws he may have, in my mind.

This.

[Shaman 713]

Franzen also seems to have an injury problem, I wish the wings had one more year on his contract, to know which would happen more, Franzen being out with injuries, or Franzen being a consistent point producer.

But honestly, around 4 is what I think the wings should be shooting for....If Kenny can get him for less, hes hockey god

[DMAC 25 18]

around 3-3.5 is all hes worth right now

[KronwallCRUNCH 5]

Is Franzen worth $4mill? Look at what he did in the stretch run and playoffs and tell me he's not. No way Detroit would have won The Cup without him.

[talex 1]

He very well may be worth 4 mil to the wings, however not at the cost of Hossa. Unlike others I would try and get both him and Hossa long term keeping the cap hits as low as possible, I would also shoot to not have a no trade on either. However I do not favor stripping the team of Huds, Val, Sammy and cast in order to keep both, teams with only 3 or 4 stars and a poor supporting cast dive quickly. I know this one has been beat to death, but I would sacrifice Flip to keep both.

[stormboy 47]

He very well may be worth 4 mil to the wings, however not at the cost of Hossa. Unlike others I would try and get both him and Hossa long term keeping the cap hits as low as possible, I would also shoot to not have a no trade on either. However I do not favor stripping the team of Huds, Val, Sammy and cast in order to keep both, teams with only 3 or 4 stars and a poor supporting cast dive quickly. I know this one has been beat to death, but I would sacrifice Flip to keep both.

totally agree with the bolded part.

i see that it might be possible to get both hossa and franzen without trading filppula, and losing huds, etc. etc., IF everyone got signed to long-term contracts to ala dastyuk and zetterberg to lower their yearly cap hit. i guess then--*if indeed this is possible*--do you want to lock up dastyuk, zetterberg, hossa, hudler, franzen ALL on front-loaded, long-term contracts. seven years from now having all those guys with cap hits that are above their value (zetterberg will not be work a 6 million cap hit in the last years of his contract) might severely hamstring the team. i could see a situation where we have all these old guys getting paid too much that we can't get rid of and having no room to actually get guys that are good THEN.

that being said, no one has any idea where the cap will be in seven years, so i guess it's all kind of a crapshoot, even IF it's possible to keep everyone by using really long deals.

[eva unit zero 271]

I know I will get bashed for this post...

But the primary goal is to retain as much of this team as possible. If you want a power forward, look no further than Tomas Kopecky. His performance is comparable to what Franzen was doing at the same age. He has been one of Detroit's best players the past few games and his performance has only been improving.

If we have to let Franzen walk, Kopecky should be an adequate replacement for his role. Especially as he is two years younger and therefore moving into the same period developmentally. Kopecky/Datsyuk/Hossa?

Beyond letting Franzen go to retain Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky; the Wings will be looking at one other major move this offseason which I have posted about elsewhere in another thread. They will have to trade either the combination of Filppula and Lebda and their total $3.65m in cap space, or find an acceptable trade for Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit.

If either of those moves are made, plus the free agents are resigned at salaries I expect them to return at, the Wings will have a roster with 100k to 200k in cap space. If players can be signed cheaper, then we have more cap space. If all mentioned trades are made, the Wings would have approximately $3.85m in cap space and would have 12 forwards and 6 defensemen, but could potentially retain Franzen and if he signed for less than $3.3m, they could afford a defenseman as well.

[talex 1]

totally agree with the bolded part.

i see that it might be possible to get both hossa and franzen without trading filppula, and losing huds, etc. etc., IF everyone got signed to long-term contracts to ala dastyuk and zetterberg to lower their yearly cap hit. i guess then--*if indeed this is possible*--do you want to lock up dastyuk, zetterberg, hossa, hudler, franzen ALL on front-loaded, long-term contracts. seven years from now having all those guys with cap hits that are above their value (zetterberg will not be work a 6 million cap hit in the last years of his contract) might severely hamstring the team. i could see a situation where we have all these old guys getting paid too much that we can't get rid of and having no room to actually get guys that are good THEN.

that being said, no one has any idea where the cap will be in seven years, so i guess it's all kind of a crapshoot, even IF it's possible to keep everyone by using really long deals.

I am not super concerned with 5+ years out if we go long term on the big 4, 2 of which we already have. I premise this because I doubt all 4 would suddenly decrease in play that much, perhaps 1 or maybe even 2 which would leave us with 2 excellent veterans and most likely 2 above average cast members and that all important experience, taking this risk would also assume a cup or 2 more in the time frame keeping the Wings a team the players want to be a part of not to mention these guys all will make the people around them better, so our young guys as they come up will have this benefit which lends itself greatly to self confidence and a winning attitude, having played sports all my life and watching this great run by the Wings, this has been a HUGE factor in the streak they have been on, thus I am not as concerned as many on signing the big 4 long term, noone can put a dollar amount on how some of our older guys have affected this run like Draper, Malts, Mac, Hasek, Hull, Stevie, Cheli, Shanny, Luc etc, etc... however as I stated, not at the cost of having a 1/2 griffins team down the stretch.