Is Franzen worth 4 Mill?

[talex 1]

I know I will get bashed for this post...

But the primary goal is to retain as much of this team as possible. If you want a power forward, look no further than Tomas Kopecky. His performance is comparable to what Franzen was doing at the same age. He has been one of Detroit's best players the past few games and his performance has only been improving.

If we have to let Franzen walk, Kopecky should be an adequate replacement for his role. Especially as he is two years younger and therefore moving into the same period developmentally. Kopecky/Datsyuk/Hossa?

Beyond letting Franzen go to retain Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky; the Wings will be looking at one other major move this offseason which I have posted about elsewhere in another thread. They will have to trade either the combination of Filppula and Lebda and their total $3.65m in cap space, or find an acceptable trade for Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit.

If either of those moves are made, plus the free agents are resigned at salaries I expect them to return at, the Wings will have a roster with 100k to 200k in cap space. If players can be signed cheaper, then we have more cap space. If all mentioned trades are made, the Wings would have approximately $3.85m in cap space and would have 12 forwards and 6 defensemen, but could potentially retain Franzen and if he signed for less than $3.3m, they could afford a defenseman as well.

I believe Stuart has a no trade clause.

[stevkrause 1,247]

I believe Stuart has a no trade clause.

Not only that, but that's a real good way to never land an UFA again - sign them to a 4 year deal and then trade them the VERY next off season, after they signed long term at a cheaper tag SPECIFICALLY to root their family...

[RedWingAbner 13]

If Val Filppula is worth three million, Franzen is most definitely worth closer to four.

I'd say if Filppula is worth three, Franzen is worth six. Franzen is a physical presence who can stand in front of the net and has a goal scorer's touch. He's not as good as Filppula defensively, but jeez, I've never seen a player paid more to do less.....well, maybe Yashin....than Filppula. He is being paid purely on potential.

[Uncle Danny 155]

I'd say if Filppula is worth three, Franzen is worth six. Franzen is a physical presence who can stand in front of the net and has a goal scorer's touch. He's not as good as Filppula defensively, but jeez, I've never seen a player paid more to do less.....well, maybe Yashin....than Filppula. He is being paid purely on potential.

six? SIX? Seriously? I think there is a GM job in NYC that might be available to you soon. Six?!? Four on the open market is realistic, and unfortunate. I don't relish the fact, but I accept it, that Franzen will be gone come 2009/10...but not for six. That's just silly talk.

[Wombat 26]

The question is interesting... this season, is Franzen worth $4 million? I'd say yes. Next season? Probably. The season after that? Well, that's what's burning me. The economy is going to make the cap come down significantly 2 seasons from now. A player worth $4 million today may not be worth that 2 years from now based on where the cap is going. The Wings absolutely must take the economy into account in signing these players. The only way we can "keep everyone" is if the FA players take home town discount 1-year deals. This isn't going to happen... a cap hit can only be lowered significantly if the player wants to stay and gets the guarantee of multiple years.

IMO, the most prudent course to take is to let Hossa walk. The Wings simply cannot afford another long term deal in the $6 million + range with the cap coming down. He's worth every penny but the Wings can't do with without the worry of cap hell and not being able to keep future young/talented players.

If Franzen took a 4 year, $3.5 million deal I think that would be adequate in not hamstringing the team for future years.

[xBrave_Heartx 0]

Mule at 4 or Hossa at 7?

I'll take Mule and Hudler for a collective 6.. instead of having Hossa at just 7.

People are writing off Mule it looks like.. He's a scorer, he goes into the gritty places. Home grown. Honestly i think Hossa ruined the chemistry of our team.. We are all offensive minded now.. Compared to our old 2-way selves.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I believe Stuart has a no trade clause.

I think that is the reason Eva said find an acceptable trade. The acceptable trade he was talking about was not from the Wings perspective but from Stuart's perspective.

[talex 1]

The question is interesting... this season, is Franzen worth $4 million? I'd say yes. Next season? Probably. The season after that? Well, that's what's burning me. The economy is going to make the cap come down significantly 2 seasons from now. A player worth $4 million today may not be worth that 2 years from now based on where the cap is going. The Wings absolutely must take the economy into account in signing these players. The only way we can "keep everyone" is if the FA players take home town discount 1-year deals. This isn't going to happen... a cap hit can only be lowered significantly if the player wants to stay and gets the guarantee of multiple years.

IMO, the most prudent course to take is to let Hossa walk. The Wings simply cannot afford another long term deal in the $6 million + range with the cap coming down. He's worth every penny but the Wings can't do with without the worry of cap hell and not being able to keep future young/talented players.

If Franzen took a 4 year, $3.5 million deal I think that would be adequate in not hamstringing the team for future years.

Under no reasonable circumstances would I let Hossa walk. The fact is within a couple years here we are going to loose Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom and Lidstrom, though their salary is not huge, their presence is and the combined salary there is not puny either, which will allow some wiggle room down the road. I say we keep as much talent on the team as possible, the only thing that troubles me looking forward is Goalie because unless Ozzie starts showing something more we will be hurting there big time because Howard is not proving he can be the go to guy and our other prospects are simply not ready, Conks has shown the ability to step in but at times has been just as bad as Ozzie, maybe he would do better with the full time job who knows, but Goalie is something everyone should be seriously considering as well when looking to the future of this team.

[Hank 0]

I've been looking at salaries in the NHL and I really dont belive that this cat will end up getting the 4 million dollar pay cheque. I know very little about paying hockey players but there are a couple hand fulls of guys out there that have been around longer than Mule and at just as proven, getting 2-3 mill. That is where I think he should be signed at. A small 2-3 year deal @ 2-3 mill and if he plays great give him his 4 later. But I stress again I dont know anything about this, just looking at numbers.

Unfortunately, on the open market Franzen could probably get close to $6M/year. Maybe closer to $5.5M.

Look what Malone got. And Connolly.

There are guys out there getting over $4M per year who haven't scored 30 goals in their career. Franzen would have scored over 40 if he was healthy all year and he's not 30 years old yet.

Plus he's big, can play centre or LW and loves to go in front of the net. He's got a lot of tools that coaches and GM's love.

Again, I'd compare him to Malone only with more offensive touch. So I'm sure he'd get at least $5M/year on the open market. If not more.

If he does re-sign with Detroit (and I think he will), he'll probably get between $4M-$4.5M.

The Wings will be fine for next year, but in the 10-11 season, be prepared to watch a lot of regulars hit the road.

Bye-bye Cheli, Maltby, Drapes, Osgood, etc.

We'll have Lidstrom, Rafalski, Zetts, Dats, Franzen, Kronwall and probably Hossa. After that, it'll be a bunch of kids from Grand Rapids and some cheap FA signings.

I'm actually looking forward to this. I can't wait to see some of our young kids up with the bigs full-time;

Leino, Helm, Aebdalkader, Ericsson, Axelsson, Emmerton(?).

[talex 1]

Mule at 4 or Hossa at 7?

I'll take Mule and Hudler for a collective 6.. instead of having Hossa at just 7.

People are writing off Mule it looks like.. He's a scorer, he goes into the gritty places. Home grown. Honestly i think Hossa ruined the chemistry of our team.. We are all offensive minded now.. Compared to our old 2-way selves.

I would rather trade flip (3.5mil), call up Helm or Leino and try to sign Mule for the 3.5 and look at the Hossa deal seperately and long term.

[Wombat 26]

Under no reasonable circumstances would I let Hossa walk. The fact is within a couple years here we are going to loose Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom and Lidstrom, though their salary is not huge, their presence is and the combined salary there is not puny either, which will allow some wiggle room down the road. I say we keep as much talent on the team as possible, the only thing that troubles me looking forward is Goalie because unless Ozzie starts showing something more we will be hurting there big time because Howard is not proving he can be the go to guy and our other prospects are simply not ready, Conks has shown the ability to step in but at times has been just as bad as Ozzie, maybe he would do better with the full time job who knows, but Goalie is something everyone should be seriously considering as well when looking to the future of this team.

For a while, I agreed with your sentiment, but as the economic future of the NHL is looking bleaker by the day, I just don't think it will be prudent to have another big money, long term deal on the books. It is true that a few players will be leaving in a couple years... I think Homer/Draper/Maltby you mentioned add up to about a $4.7 million cap hit, and really we don't know if those guys might go on playing for another 3 or 4 years (at reduced salary after these current contracts). Lidstrom's big contract will give a lot of cap relief, but a good chunk of that money will have to be spent on shoring up the D after he does leave. I hate to think next year will be his last year and he will still demand a solid salary should he re-sign. Factoring in Hossa money, the cost of replacing every player that retires/leaves, and the near guarantee of a drop in the cap, it still leaves the team with little to no wiggle room.

We've seen this season how tough it can be with no wiggle room. The Wings have been forced to play Meech at forward because they could not afford to bring up other players. They couldn't bring up young guys to test out or sit down players that were not playing effectively because of cap constraints. No additions could be made at the trade deadline.

Sometimes you've got to let a great player walk to be able to keep a great team together, especially since the future of the finances are so in doubt. I would rather the Wings play it safe than be stuck in a situation where they let solid role players leave to keep stars that they then need to trade for 30 cents on the dollar in a salary dump... and that's if any team can truly afford to take on the extra salary.

[12Newf 0]

tampa wants him on a line with malone and are prepared to offer him 7.5m for 5 years. (e9)

seriously though, the "open market" is retarded and someone would offer him whatever he wants if he goes for the money.

[Echolalia 2,961]

Whats to stop the Wings from signing a 2 week RFA contract with Franzen July 1st, so if he does go somewhere, we'll at least get something for him heh heh heh

[RedWingAbner 13]

six? SIX? Seriously? I think there is a GM job in NYC that might be available to you soon. Six?!? Four on the open market is realistic, and unfortunate. I don't relish the fact, but I accept it, that Franzen will be gone come 2009/10...but not for six. That's just silly talk.

I know it's silly. I was using that ridiculous contract as an example of how trying to sign Franzen will be hard. Filpulla shouldn't be paid more than $1.8M. At $3M, he's a detriment to keeping Franzen.

[eva unit zero 271]

I believe Stuart has a no trade clause.

That's why "acceptable trade" was in the post you replied to. Because Stuart would have to approve the trade.

[eva unit zero 271]

Mule at 4 or Hossa at 7?

I'll take Mule and Hudler for a collective 6.. instead of having Hossa at just 7.

People are writing off Mule it looks like.. He's a scorer, he goes into the gritty places. Home grown. Honestly i think Hossa ruined the chemistry of our team.. We are all offensive minded now.. Compared to our old 2-way selves.

Hossa is more of a two-way player and better defensively than Franzen is; while it's possible his addition to the team messed up the chemistry in that manner, it would not have been due to a defensive deficiency on Hossa's part. Red Wings players who have been notably weaker, IMHO, defensively this season than last have been: Franzen, Draper, Maltby, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lebda. Red Wings players who have been, IMHO, notably stonger defensively this season than last season are Zetterberg, Hudler, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Lilja. Anyone not mentioned has played close to their level from last season, at least defensively.

Part of the problem that paragraph highlights? As far as forwards are concerned, it's penalty killers who are really the ones who are having significant drops in performance defensively, while Zetterberg is the only regular PK forward who has significantly improved defensively. The same problem is noted on the defense, where Stuart and Kronwall are performing significantly worse, while only Lilja is performing significantly better among PK defensemen.

[TheOwl 77]

Stuart and Kronwall have been awful this season, and with Flipulla picking up his play of late, I'd much rather lose one of them to keep Franzen and Hossa. Hudler has uber cooled off as of late, I'd take Sammy over him at this point if he'll sign for half of what Hudler would want.

[sureWhyNot 19]

Franzen is a great player, and I don't think anyone would dispute that - that unfortunately means very little when assesing the Red Wings situation. There is no way -- absolutely no way that the Wings should let Hossa walk. He already has made it known he likes it here and that in itself is enough for me to see Franzen walk.

What Franzen did in last years playoffs was jaw dropping without a doubt. That said, he is somewhat injury prone, there are guys who could theoretically step into his role (might not be as effective, but definitely suitable replacements) and the biggest of all reasons to let him go (if he is looking for 4M a year) is that he is no Marian Hossa -- period.

The team with Marian Hossa is better then a team with Franzen. While I would love to see them both back, I don't think it is a) possible and b) if possible, completely crippling the team salary cap wise in ever other facet outside Hossa and Franzen. I will take Hossa and Hudler over Franzen and Hudler any day of the week, as I would expect a lot of folks would.

[Wombat 26]

Franzen is a great player, and I don't think anyone would dispute that - that unfortunately means very little when assesing the Red Wings situation. There is no way -- absolutely no way that the Wings should let Hossa walk. He already has made it known he likes it here and that in itself is enough for me to see Franzen walk.

What Franzen did in last years playoffs was jaw dropping without a doubt. That said, he is somewhat injury prone, there are guys who could theoretically step into his role (might not be as effective, but definitely suitable replacements) and the biggest of all reasons to let him go (if he is looking for 4M a year) is that he is no Marian Hossa -- period.

The team with Marian Hossa is better then a team with Franzen. While I would love to see them both back, I don't think it is a) possible and b) if possible, completely crippling the team salary cap wise in ever other facet outside Hossa and Franzen. I will take Hossa and Hudler over Franzen and Hudler any day of the week, as I would expect a lot of folks would.

It's not just about taking the best players, but the best players for the best value. The Wings must be prudent for the financial future of the team. I fear that giving another big contract to a forward is going to Lightning-ize the team. To guarantee cap flexibility I would take Franzen at $3 - 3.5, let Hossa walk, and let Hudler sign elsewhere and receive draft pick compensation. I understand I may be in the minority with this thought process but I truly worry about where the economics of the game is heading. A recession of this magnitude has never occurred in a time with salary capped sports and I would like to see the Wings prepare for a tumultuous time.

[Dimaline312000 51]

I don't know if he'll get $4Million a season but he may get close to 3 or even 3.5 for 2 seasons or so. Maybe 4 million for 2 seasons. Detroit really needs to rethink and come up with a better strategy of paying players next season. Not that Detroit has done a bad job but come this off-season with the potential loss of Franzen and Hossa as well as a few other good players and with not knowing for sure if the Cap is going to go down 1 Mill or if it is going to go up 1-2 Mill. My feeling is that if it goes down we are going to lose Hossa however if it goes up we may be able to keep both Hossa and Franzen. Just have to see what happens in the coming months.