Mors 201 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 No I hope he stays around, because Hossa (I would love to keep around)will cost too much and Mule will be a valuable asset to have that could turn into a special player, what I am saying is that he is not special Currently!!!!!! So Mule won the cup all by himself, the fact that 3 of his goals were direct results of his linemates forechecking doesn't impact that, or that at least 2 of his goals were power play deflections, not goals he created on his own? Let alone the fact that OZZIE not Mule was last years savior, doesn't enter your mind at all? The fact that Z not Mule was the Conn Smythe tells me with out Mule the Wings probably would have been OK! But we can not debate that, but to say the Wings would not have won with out Mule is a stretch to say the least. If Franzen was so imperative to the Wings winning the cup how many goals did he score in the SCF, guess what He got out scored in the SCF by Sammy, does that make Sammy a special player, hell Sammy did something that has never occurred in the SCF before? You have some very interesting revisionist history, I understand what he did last year, I also understand that when the playoff ended he was But if you want to call him special fine do so, I stated my opinion and backed it up with facts, just like you just did? Revisionist history? Please don't add comments I didn't make when you quote me. If you want to downplay his contribution that's fine. This is just another veiled complaint thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Revisionist history? Please don't add comments I didn't make when you quote me. If you want to downplay his contribution that's fine. This is just another veiled complaint thread. My intent for putting that in your post was it didn't really go in my post, that is why I bolded it, if I was trying to be clever and make it look like you said it, I wouldn't have made it stand out, I would have written in plain text. Often times on these boards it happens, it is because my comment went directly to what you were saying! I will make it more obvious now, but I am not complaining, who is complaining, all I said is that he is not special and then I backed it up, I even said he could be special, but at the current date, in my opinion he is not. I even went so far as to say you could call him whatever you want but my opinion is that he is not special. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WingsZR2 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Is he special? Yes and no, he's streaky but when you break a record held by Mr Hockey, well you're not really a one hit wonder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Valas19 50 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Jonathan Cheechoo might have been considered special when he scored 56 goals back in '05. He followed it up with 37 then 23 and this year only 9. Yes, injuries have taken their toll and I'm not saying that Mule will be another Cheechoo but so far he hasn't proven himself to be elevated to the level of special. I love the guy, hope he sticks around here for a long time and find that consistency of just being healthy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ozzie30 170 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 my opinion is that he is not special. Are you calling Mule's mom a liar? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Are you calling Mule's mom a liar? Sorry all apologies to Mrs. Mule!! LOL Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Special? No. Exceptional? Yes. Poor playmaker, not a very good passer, but good defense and a fairly gifted goalscoring touch. Also quite clutch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Opie 308 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Special? No. Exceptional? Yes. Poor playmaker, not a very good passer, but good defense and a fairly gifted goalscoring touch. Also quite clutch. All great signs for him in the future, his hands are what impress me for such a big forward, soft hands, and great patience around the net. The goal the other night where he waited the goaltender out to the other side of the net, thing of beauty. He may someday be a very special great player, maybe he and Dats can build on the relationship they seemed to have going. I consider Hossa out of reach $$ wise (although I hold out hope because I never thought he would be here to begin with) and Mule (3.5 discount) Sammy( 1.5 Discount) and Huds (2.5 not a discount today, but in the future well worth the price) will take the 7.5 mil that would go to Hossa. To the last word in your post: Playoffs Calgary Flames, that is all that needs be said, clutch is a very good word!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
drwscc 212 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Jonathan Cheechoo might have been considered special when he scored 56 goals back in '05. He followed it up with 37 then 23 and this year only 9. Yes, injuries have taken their toll and I'm not saying that Mule will be another Cheechoo but so far he hasn't proven himself to be elevated to the level of special. "Train, Train, Cheechoo Train/Our team's gonna win this game/Cheechoo (oh yeah) Cheechoo" Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SDavis35 140 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 HERE HERE!!!! That is all I am asking from him, however he is not special yet. And the longer he remains seen as "not special" the better chance we have of keeping him at a low price however, in all seriousness, i do agree that he has not proven enough consistency to be considered the "special" of elite players like Dats, Z, Lids, Hossa, Malkin, Ovie, Crosby, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsyerberger 279 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 All great signs for him in the future, his hands are what impress me for such a big forward, soft hands, and great patience around the net. The goal the other night where he waited the goaltender out to the other side of the net, thing of beauty. He's like a more motivated, less fat (and hopefully less overpaid) Dustin Penner. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
softshoes 83 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 Is he special? Yes and no, he's streaky but when you break a record held by Mr Hockey, well you're not really a one hit wonder. HEY!! I thought Roger Maris said that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 "No, but he loves you. We all love you." (I'll vote 5-stars into the rating of the person who identifies this reference first) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Booster313 138 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 "No, but he loves you. We all love you." (I'll vote 5-stars into the rating of the person who identifies this reference first) Lucille Bluth- Arrested Development. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 "No, but he loves you. We all love you." (I'll vote 5-stars into the rating of the person who identifies this reference first) The mom on Arrested Development? figured someone would chime in by now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Echolalia 2,961 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 The mom on Arrested Development? figured someone would chime in by now You don't even need an improved rating! I gave it to Booster Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Booster313 138 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 You don't even need an improved rating! I gave it to Booster Thanks! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mors 201 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 You don't even need an improved rating! I gave it to Booster Booster beat me anyway and his answer was more accurate Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 He broke out last season? when? did I miss it? Apparently. Did he score 40 and I missed it, did he have 50 assists and I missed it, did he hit 80+ points and i missed it? Since when are those marks the definition of "breaking out" and why does a "breaking out" have to encapsulate an entire season? Is it not possible that it *clicks* in March as opposed to October? What exactly did he do to break out? He scored 57 goals along with 39 assists for 96 points in his last 92 games. Last year in 72 games he scored 38 points, that is a break out year? 27 goals is impressive, but does that makes him a special player? Not in my book! Because your "book" is stupid. How is doing what Franzen has from March to March any less impressive than had he done it from October to October? It makes him a good player, but nothing about Franzen as of yet screams this dude is special. Special, is only being used in reference to Franzen developing an elite offensive game this late in his career. Not that what Franzen is now, is special in some sense. He's a great goal-scorer but not particularly special. But the way his goalscoring has popped up out of nowhere IS special. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skacore 2 Report post Posted March 19, 2009 He broke out last season? when? did I miss it? Did he score 40 and I missed it, did he have 50 assists and I missed it, did he hit 80+ points and i missed it? What exactly did he do to break out? Last year in 72 games he scored 38 points, that is a break out year? 27 goals is impressive, but does that makes him a special player? Not in my book! It makes him a good player, but nothing about Franzen as of yet screams this dude is special. are you joking...he scored all his goals at the end of the season and had how many in the playoffs? like 15? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
norrisnick 1 Report post Posted March 20, 2009 are you joking...he scored all his goals at the end of the season and had how many in the playoffs? like 15? From the first game in March last year until now (including playoffs), Franzen has scored at a 49 goal per season pace (57 goals in 96 games). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheOwl 77 Report post Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) He also disappears for months at a time, either injury or slump. I have said this on this board many times, taking one half of one season and adding to one half of another season, plus one playoff streak does not make for a great season and playoff run. Last time I checked he has just as many goals as the great Zetterberg, one more then Datsyuk and only 6 less then Hossa, and he has the fewest games played of the four. Franzen is a beast with the puck, and he scored the most impressive goal of the season by a Wing, the one in Montreal. He's a clutch player, most game winning goals of any Wing, most fits of the 4 scorers. He's not the play-maker like the other 3 are, but how many fancy play makers do the Wings need? Wings need some big bodied goal scorers. Can't just have 12 skinny Europeans passing the puck back and forth. Any arguement against Franzen can be summed up perfectly with, he had the most goals per game last years play-offs, and he makes less then 1 million/season. Thank you. No more bashing the Mule. He is as good as everyone thinks, and the Wings would be incredibly stupid to sign Hossa for 7 million instead of the Mule for 3 million, if the option was avaliable. Franzen in my eyes is just as good a goal scorer then Hossa or Zetterberg, but perhaps not better offensively (assist wise etc.). Edited March 20, 2009 by TheOwl Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest MrSandMan Report post Posted March 20, 2009 Just feed.the.mule. That's all we need. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted March 20, 2009 Last time I checked he has just as many goals as the great Zetterberg, one more then Datsyuk and only 6 less then Hossa, and he has the fewest games played of the four. Franzen is a beast with the puck, and he scored the most impressive goal of the season by a Wing, the one in Montreal. He's a clutch player, most game winning goals of any Wing, most fits of the 4 scorers. He's not the play-maker like the other 3 are, but how many fancy play makers do the Wings need? Wings need some big bodied goal scorers. Can't just have 12 skinny Europeans passing the puck back and forth. Any arguement against Franzen can be summed up perfectly with, he had the most goals per game last years play-offs, and he makes less then 1 million/season. Thank you. No more bashing the Mule. He is as good as everyone thinks, and the Wings would be incredibly stupid to sign Hossa for 7 million instead of the Mule for 3 million, if the option was avaliable. Franzen in my eyes is just as good a goal scorer then Hossa or Zetterberg, but perhaps not better offensively (assist wise etc.). Most people on here are expecting Franzen to get $4m. It's quite possible Hossa could get $6m. At best, Franzen is Hossa's equal defensively and as far as goal scoring. Franzen is much more injury prone, he is a terrible playmaker while Hossa is a good playmaker. And no, Franzen is not as good a goal scorer as Zetterberg, Datsyuk, or Hossa. Why do I say this? Because if all four players have similar goal-scoring numbers, and Franzen can do NOTHING but score goals while the other three all can do and are used in other roles, then Franzen being an equal goal scorer should mean he would have more goals scored now due to his limited focus. I expect the Wings to sign Hossa for about $6m per year, and to give Kopecky and Leino chances to prove themselves in Franzen's slot after Franzen signs away as a UFA for a deal that is $4.5m or $5m per year or more. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dabura 12,232 Report post Posted March 20, 2009 (edited) This is largely a semantics game. Bottom line, anyone who puts on the kind of show Franzen's been putting on since mid or late last season is pretty "special." However... the Wings would be incredibly stupid to sign Hossa for 7 million instead of the Mule for 3 million Hossa is a bona fide elite forward; he's flat-out better than Mule. And he's the same age. So he's fully justified in earning more than Mule. (Not that I'm expecting a $4M disparity in their requests, mind you.) Edited March 20, 2009 by Dabura Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
