Conklin to start Thursday; Rafalski out again

[boomer 0]

Not sure where the Holland leaving stuff is coming from either....

Problem is we CANNOT go out and get a star goalie with the cap system - not w/o giving up something precious in return. Plus before the lockout, Holland did sign/trade for big name goalies - Hasek, Cujo - and we STILL didn't have a clearcut #1 save for '02 with Hasek. So it is not just about the cap, although that doesn't help. It's like a curse on the Red Wings that we will never have a long term clear cut #1 starting goalie. We have won 4 Cups though in this interim so obviously the Wings are getting away with it - I personally think we would have had more with better GT a few of those years, but cannot complain about the number of rings for sure....

Next season it starts all over again - our starter will surely be someone who has not played the position for us before.....

I'lll have to agree yes we have been getting away with it. Hasek and Cujo when they came here were not at the top of their game, but we did manage with Hasek for awhile because of our solid D. But you look at this year with the goaltending lapses its draggging the team down mentally and physically. When Detroit plays catch-up hockey like they have been doing all year means they are not playing their A game of puck possesion that has sucessfully frustated teams in the past. The focuss becomes all offense out scoring the opposition this leads to a further increase in D breakdowns. Plus we have a lot of veterans that get worn down further than they should have to . Look how we have declined defensively in the league this year despite our winning record. Ken Holland goes and give Zetterberg a 12 yr. contract , I'm sorry its ridiculous. Look at the team with all its abundance in finesse and scoring, you can't tell me that you could do not away wth some of that for a netminder that can steal for you when it counts. IF this team had this capacity now they would be favoured for the Cup again. Theirs no justification for a championship team to have 2 back-ups as starters. Holland is the prime reason it is so;along with others in the organization that have gone along with his logic. And no I don't think he will be around for the duration of the Zetterberg contract. And if he is I'll be gone by then.

[lets go pavel 2]

I'lll have to agree yes we have been getting away with it. Hasek and Cujo when they came here were not at the top of their game, but we did manage with Hasek for awhile because of our solid D. But you look at this year with the goaltending lapses its draggging the team down mentally and physically. When Detroit plays catch-up hockey like they have been doing all year means they are not playing their A game of puck possesion that has sucessfully frustated teams in the past. The focuss becomes all offense out scoring the opposition this leads to a further increase in D breakdowns. Plus we have a lot of veterans that get worn down further than they should have to . Look how we have declined defensively in the league this year despite our winning record. Ken Holland goes and give Zetterberg a 12 yr. contract , I'm sorry its ridiculous. Look at the team with all its abundance in finesse and scoring, you can't tell me that you could do not away wth some of that for a netminder that can steal for you when it counts. IF this team had this capacity now they would be favoured for the Cup again. Theirs no justification for a championship team to have 2 back-ups as starters. Holland is the prime reason it is so;along with others in the organization that have gone along with his logic. And no I don't think he will be around for the duration of the Zetterberg contract. And if he is I'll be gone by then.

Going into this season Ozzie was not considered a back-up. Going into last season, Hasek was not considered a back-up. When we had Manny, he had earned a shot at being a starter. You talk as though Holland's MO has been to always sign back-ups, but that's not the case. True, we haven't tried to sign the $6M goalies like Luongo or Kipper, but we've hardly gone with career backups and scrubs. The only complaint I can see is that Holland didn't get anyone at the deadline, but realistically I'm not sure who he could have gotten.

[boomer 0]

This:

was in response to this (note the bold):

The implication is that Holland has knowingly set us up for failure and then plans on bailing out, a la Brian Burke. Do you have any evidence that this is in fact his plan? Because you are talking about a guy who has helped build the Wings into the most successful NHL franchise in recent memory. It's one thing to disagree with Holland's decisions, but it's another to suggest that he's intentionally harming the team.

If you construed that I meant he intentionally has gone out of his way to screw the team, no I don't believe that and he would, and I would never claim so. Listen he has done some exstemely successful things with excellent scouting draft picks and some last minute deals going into the playoffs. But this goaltending issue is something which he has totally mishandled, and what ticks me off its all about allocating funds here so that the pile of the money should go there for the scoring elite in our team. How much do we need? I guess by his logic a hell of a lot because we have become a team that primarily plays catch- up hockey. Do you like the Canucks? Some think they could go far this year, I'm not so sure with their road record . But the solid reason is Luongo there and he can steal games. I like Hossa but I'd take a solid netminder over him any day of the week, because playoffs is all about getting the timely goaltending.

[lets go pavel 2]

If you construed that I meant he intentionally has gone out of his way to screw the team, no I don't believe that and he would, and I would never claim so. Listen he has done some exstemely successful things with excellent scouting draft picks and some last minute deals going into the playoffs. But this goaltending issue is something which he has totally mishandled, and what ticks me off its all about allocating funds here so that the pile of the money should go there for the scoring elite in our team. How much do we need? I guess by his logic a hell of a lot because we have become a team that primarily plays catch- up hockey. Do you like the Canucks? Some think they could go far this year, I'm not so sure with their road record . But the solid reason is Luongo there and he can steal games. I like Hossa but I'd take a solid netminder over him any day of the week, because playoffs is all about getting the timely goaltending.

I don't think you'll get much of an argument from anyone over that, but coming off last seson Ozzie was considered solid at the least. He had a great year and a great playoffs last year; who would have thought he would struggle as much as he has this year? On paper going into this season, with Ozzie coming off of the season he had and Conklin as backup, our goaltending looked pretty good.

[Dano33 41]

I totally agree. I am tire of blaming the defense for all the soft goals let in. Sure our D hasn't played as well this year. But most other teams have a poorer defensive core than ours - and their goalie doesn't give up 4-5 goals per game on shots in the low-mid 20s. No team can win with GT like that.

And on topic, as long as we are coasting into the 2 seed, Lidstrom needs a few games off, maybe Datsyuk too.....

Which Wings goalie is that? I dont see a 4.5 gaa next to any of our goalies names.

[boomer 0]

I don't think you'll get much of an argument from anyone over that, but coming off last seson Ozzie was considered solid at the least. He had a great year and a great playoffs last year; who would have thought he would struggle as much as he has this year? On paper going into this season, with Ozzie coming off of the season he had and Conklin as backup, our goaltending looked pretty good.

Yes coming out with Cup it looked good, but let's face this season the trouble signs had been there from the start; though Conklin put up a small run that gave us some hope, and maybe were still hoping he is going to shine through. But nevertheless there were plenty of goalies around the league up for grabs, maybe not the high profile ones , but hey we could have gotten someone reliable for 25 shots a game; there a lot of thos guys around. At one point I kept saying to myself Gerber's on waivers why not take a chance on him. The guy was treated like crap in Ottawa and guys like that would love to prove something especially if they got a chance like Detroit. Burke took him and the leafs have won a few games . Point is if you recognize a problem you address it , Holland felt their was none though his was winning team it was at the near bottom in save percetages and defense period. But then again ,when you see the mentality of some who will defend Osgood no matter what it explains the lunacy of it all. By the way look back to game 5-6 against Pittsburgh when he started looking shaky. Remember how he bobbled the puck on the line with seconds left and we won the Cup. For me then and there I said I hope we get another goaltender next year. I'm glad there wasn't a game 7 let me tell you.

[Carman 387]

There were no goalies available that fit how the Red Wings team is built. Even mentioning Gerber as a possibility makes your arguement quite funny. The goaltending situation will be sorted out in the playoffs, Osgood has the playoff experience and Conkin is in the top 10 regular season stats for goalies. We will be fine, the only issue is if we can find the playoff switch and get kronner, stuart, cleary, and kopecky to start playing more physical which will help tighten up the defense.

And if the goaltending leads to a early playoff exit you bet there will be some big moves in the off season, Holland will fix something that proved to be broken not something seems to be broken, but has never let him down.

[Guest Shoreline]

Osgood's numbers against St. Louis this year are outstanding.

3-0-0 with a 1.63 GAA and a .943 save %

I'm glad he's not starting.

Conklin's numbers aren't much worse...but still.

I couldn't help but laugh at this.

[CanadaBoy 151]

With Conklin in net, this should be a breeze

Conklin is hungry for a cup! Let the man start in the playoffs!

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Which Wings goalie is that? I dont see a 4.5 gaa next to any of our goalies names.

His last 3 games Osgood had 7.09 (yanked), 2, and 4 GAA - for an average of 4.36. My point is our GAA sucks. So officially Osgood's GAA is listed as 3.18 for the season - 40th in the league, above only Legace, MacDonald, Raycroft, Toskala, & Hedberg. And he was just outplayed by MacDonald last weekend. He gives up ALOT of goals - I can make a list but several games come to mind (8-2 Jackets, 6-5 Avs, 6-5 SJ to name a few).

But there is no use debating statistics - there is no way to spin this into a decent GT season. It is no secret to anyone our GT sucks. The Q is what can be done at the 11th hour about it? Maybe not much. 20-20 hindsight but maybe not trading for a GT is going to come back and bite the Wings in the a$$. Hope not, but if anyone is confident about our GT going into the POs, I'd like a pair of their glasses.

[OsGOD 3]

Hope not, but if anyone is confident about our GT going into the POs, I'd like a pair of their glasses.

I don't wear glasses (never have) so i can't lend you some... but i feel we will be alright. if we fail in the PO's it will be because the Team as a whole doesn't tighten up play. No sloppy play by the other 5 and our 6th man should be doing just fine back there. The rest of our team must be aware of the GT issue so why on earth don't they play better to accomidate for it? Sloppy passes and turnovers all around your own net is unexcussable when you have to carry more the slack for an under performing player.

I remember the LA kings game... how pathetic it was the lowly kings were cycling the puck around our sad D and pressuring for most of the period. Our team could not clear it for the life of them. Goalie made huge saves but was under constant pressure because our D and O were horrible.

Edited April 1, 2009 by OsGOD

[Wingsallwin 0]

The most important fact is that Osgood is not IMPROVING. He had good games against the Thrashers and the Flyers but that were all. Since the dominated game against the Flames, he was atrocious, in one word, choke. Who cares about his stats if he is building his confidence in himself. If I hear his interview right now, I just do not have faith on him anymore. How the hell he feels good and comfortalbe himself? Just he lies on the interview? He does not look responsible for goals he allow.

Besides, there is no need to blame our defenses. While our defenses are not playing great, they have been improved, which Osgood has not been. Fewer give aways and break aways but as you guys know, those things happen in the game. There cannot be absolute shut down defensive systems. That is why there is a goalie in the net when defenses misplayed. I see many people here just blame defenses when Osgood allows goals. Goalies are on burden when they allow goals. Maybe our defenses make some problems but as I see Osgood this season, he is out of position every game and not reacting enough quick. He is not sharp out there.

At this point, no one can be worse than Osgood. That is why Conklin should be tested and if he is enough solid, he should start. No matter the amount of experience now. There is no hell opportunity he will turn around and become last year's Osgood. Remember the first half of the season that we have to build a confidence on Conklin instead of Osgood because Osgood looks not capable to turn around and play good?

If I use a strong word, Osgood lovers just do not care what happens right now. They just in the hallucination about last year's Osgood but knowing nothing. If players are playing bad, they have to blamed while they have to be cheered up and encouraged when they play great. Now, only few games are left for us and neither our goalies are confident under the assumption, then, isn't that pretty much dealing?

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

I don't wear glasses (never have) so i can't lend you some... but i feel we will be alright. if we fail in the PO's it will be because the Team as a whole doesn't tighten up play. No sloppy play by the other 5 and our 6th man should be doing just fine back there. The rest of our team must be aware of the GT issue so why on earth don't they play better to accomidate for it? Sloppy passes and turnovers all around your own net is unexcussable when you have to carry more the slack for an under performing player.

I remember the LA kings game... how pathetic it was the lowly kings were cycling the puck around our sad D and pressuring for most of the period. Our team could not clear it for the life of them. Goalie made huge saves but was under constant pressure because our D and O were horrible.

Yes the Wings have other problems BUT we lead the league in scoring goals, and are third in shots against per game. You claim it is the teams' responsibility to cover up for our poor GT - I say on the whole the team is doing just that by scoring alot of goals and keeping shots down, but it is the GT's job to stop the puck. I think the team will play fine come PO time, but I'm not sure they can play well enough to overcome our obvious weakness in goal. I said before, I hope I'm wrong and they do, but it worries me.

[cprice12 117]

With Conklin in net, this should be a breeze

Conklin is hungry for a cup! Let the man start in the playoffs!

The Wings have owned the Blues this year...no doubt. But the Blues are playing great hockey and have been on a roll since January. It's just a matter of time before the Blues win one of these damn games.

If we lose tonight to Chicago...the game in Detroit on Thursday is almost a "must-win".

We'll see.

[OsGOD 3]

Yes the Wings have other problems BUT we lead the league in scoring goals, and are third in shots against per game. You claim it is the teams' responsibility to cover up for our poor GT - I say on the whole the team is doing just that by scoring alot of goals and keeping shots down, but it is the GT's job to stop the puck. I think the team will play fine come PO time, but I'm not sure they can play well enough to overcome our obvious weakness in goal. I said before, I hope I'm wrong and they do, but it worries me.

It depends too on the types of shots they are blocking and allowing... The last two games i have witnessed easy ass slam dunks by the opposition as the defense half assly tried to cover them.

but that is all speculation though and open to interpretation as to the amount of help the the team is providing with the shots.

I look at is as say someone offering to help move boxes (we are going to use boxes to represent shots in this case) for an hurt person who has to move out of their house. If you help by only lifting the easy boxes for them and leaving all the heavy, odd shaped boxes for them to move.... are you really, i mean really helping them?

Same too if your team is stopping or preventing what would be the easy type of shots and only allowing the hard and (many times over this season, slam dunk) shots... of course the goals are going to be coming left and right.

Edited April 2, 2009 by OsGOD

[puckloo39 5,686]

Yes the Wings have other problems BUT we lead the league in scoring goals, and are third in shots against per game. You claim it is the teams' responsibility to cover up for our poor GT - I say on the whole the team is doing just that by scoring alot of goals and keeping shots down, but it is the GT's job to stop the puck.

I think the team will play fine come PO time, but I'm not sure they can play well enough to overcome our obvious weakness in goal. I said before, I hope I'm wrong and they do, but it worries me.

Bingo! All I've heard is excuses this year. It's everyone else's fault from the D to the zamboni driver's, anyone else except the goalie's responsibility. If the offense is able to score one more than whatever number is let in, the Wings will win. They shouldn't have to score goals by the handful in order to win, but luckily, they have that ability if they're on their game.

Ozzie apologists aside, I think most realistic people here know that goaltending wins championships. Putting it kindly, we don't have it this season. I hope Ozzie shows up. I really do, since I like to win, but I am not counting on it.

[The Secret 304]

It depends too on the types of shots they are blocking and allowing... The last two games i have witnessed easy ass slam dunks by the opposition as the defense half assly tried to cover them.

but that is all speculation though and open to interpretation as to the amount of help the the team is providing with the shots.

I look at is as say someone offering to help move boxes (we are going to use boxes to represent shots in this case) for an hurt person who has to move out of their house. If you help by only lifting the easy boxes for them and leaving all the heavy, odd shaped boxes for them to move.... are you really, i mean really helping them?

Same too if your team is stopping or preventing what would be the easy type of shots and only allowing the hard and (many times over this season, slam dunk) shots... of course the goals are going to be coming left and right.

Then why is this happening only to Osgood and not to Conklin? Do you think the entire team, minus the goaltenders, decide before the game to play better in front of Conklin and not as good in front of Osgood? I've said it before and here it is again... no one says anything about the goals that get in, BY ANYONE, if they are impossible to stop. The killers are the one's that should be stopped that seem to get by Osgood way more often then by Conklin, and more so there are sometimes several in a game getting by Osgood that can and should be stopped. Btw, this same conversation was had during Osgood last run with Detroit and I am willing to bet the same conversations were had in New York and St. Louis.... the guy has never had it in him to be a Full Time starter, never he can't handle it!

Edited April 2, 2009 by The Secret

[OsGOD 3]

Btw, this same conversation was had during Osgood last run with Detroit and I am willing to bet the same conversations were had in New York and St. Louis.... the guy has never had it in him to be a Full Time starter, never he can't handle it!

Nope you would be wrong... Osgood was nothing short of stellar in New York... obviously if are "willing to bet" you never did pay much attention to the fans reactions or the actual games he played while in new york or St. Louis.

Same with St. Louis, I made a point to visit their boards and follow them very closely including going to several Blues games to watch him play... The fans had nothing but good things to say about him.

[The Secret 304]

Nope you would be wrong... Osgood was nothing short of stellar in New York... obviously if are "willing to bet" you never did pay much attention to the fans reactions or the actual games he played while in new york or St. Louis.

Same with St. Louis, I made a point to visit their boards and follow them very closely including going to several Blues games to watch him play... The fans had nothing but good things to say about him.

Good enough to be moved quite quickly by both teams, like all the good goalies in the league. He was so good the Wings put Osgood on waivers after not being able to trade him for anything. And again in St. Louis they thought so highly of him that they chose to let his contract expire rather than to keep the guy they had nothing but good things to say about?! Hmmm! Here we are this year, games away from the play offs with Osgood as the #1 goalie and posting numbers near to the worst in the league. He can play well enough, we all know that, but he can also drop the ball and play like he has this entire season. If he doesn't find his confidence and he either loses his spot on the ice or he backstops us to a miserable early playoff exit where do you think that will leave him for next year?

[Vladifan 680]

I am personally at the point where I hope Conklin gets to be in goal for at least two or three straight games. I have no problem whatsoever with that choice because our second place position is pretty much established and I don't see us moving up again. Yeah, I know - we don't have that many left for Babcock to have options. But it appears to me that there are a helluva lot more know-it-alls on the Conklin side than there are on the Ozzie vs. the defense/team play side, and I'm thinking that's a way easier stance to take without a whole lot of real-time history to back it up (i.e., Conklin and end-of-the-season/playoff experience).

It still won't be enough of an answer no matter what happens, but anything, I mean ANY thing, that will cause a little put up or shut up action on this board would be a godsend.

[Vladifan 680]

The Wings have owned the Blues this year...no doubt. But the Blues are playing great hockey and have been on a roll since January. It's just a matter of time before the Blues win one of these damn games.

If we lose tonight to Chicago...the game in Detroit on Thursday is almost a "must-win".

We'll see.

After watching part of that game last night, I have a sinking feeling that the Blues were already looking forward to tonight's game. You're right - they haven't been playing that badly but last night they had like what, seven or so shots for the whole game? I'm hoping they are whipped from that game with the Hawks but I ain't holding my breath on that one....

[datsyukismyfriend 4]

It depends too on the types of shots they are blocking and allowing... The last two games i have witnessed easy ass slam dunks by the opposition as the defense half assly tried to cover them.

but that is all speculation though and open to interpretation as to the amount of help the the team is providing with the shots.

I look at is as say someone offering to help move boxes (we are going to use boxes to represent shots in this case) for an hurt person who has to move out of their house. If you help by only lifting the easy boxes for them and leaving all the heavy, odd shaped boxes for them to move.... are you really, i mean really helping them?

Same too if your team is stopping or preventing what would be the easy type of shots and only allowing the hard and (many times over this season, slam dunk) shots... of course the goals are going to be coming left and right.

we out-chance most teams most nights. we out-shoot most teams most nights (by a large margin). we give osgood relatively little to clean up and he's show consistently this season that he's not capable. he was great for us last season, but this year has been a bust and he's all but certainly cost us the president's trophy, which isn't all important, but home ice throughout the playoffs is a nice perk. especially when the sharks have been as good as they have been at home.

our defense has left something to be desired this season, true, but our offense has pretty much balanced it out. osgood has been the weakest link. night in, night out he's out performed by the goalie across the ice. that can't happen every night. he doesn't have confidence in himself, the team doesn't have confidence in him, babcock says he does, but i don't believe him. holland says he does, but his actions speak otherwise. osgood isn't going to miraculously turn his game around in six games. he should be done. he had more than his fair shot. let's see what conklin can give us. it's scary because he's unproven as a playoff goalie, or even a starter, but, like i've said before, it's less scary to me at this point than trying to ride osgood to the cup.

[Wingsallwin 0]

we out-chance most teams most nights. we out-shoot most teams most nights (by a large margin). we give osgood relatively little to clean up and he's show consistently this season that he's not capable. he was great for us last season, but this year has been a bust and he's all but certainly cost us the president's trophy, which isn't all important, but home ice throughout the playoffs is a nice perk. especially when the sharks have been as good as they have been at home.

our defense has left something to be desired this season, true, but our offense has pretty much balanced it out. osgood has been the weakest link. night in, night out he's out performed by the goalie across the ice. that can't happen every night. he doesn't have confidence in himself, the team doesn't have confidence in him, babcock says he does, but i don't believe him. holland says he does, but his actions speak otherwise. osgood isn't going to miraculously turn his game around in six games. he should be done. he had more than his fair shot. let's see what conklin can give us. it's scary because he's unproven as a playoff goalie, or even a starter, but, like i've said before, it's less scary to me at this point than trying to ride osgood to the cup.

Very great point. I am on your side that Conklin is not a proven goalie in the playoff, not even a starter but mathmatically, Conklin surely gives us a better chance to win the cup, not Osgood. Besides, Conklin and Osgood have played with the same defenses, not different. Then, while Osgood is playing really poor, Conklin has been enough solid on the other hand. When I saw Osgood was in a slump in a first month, I thought it was just an illusion and believed he would bounce back. However, that was wrong and I totally lost the credit when he allowed 7 goals against the Pens; it killed us.

As much as I put the quantity over quality on the number of shots, our defenses have not been very solid but our offenses could cover up. Since then, our defenses have been becoming more solid and even more solid, Osgood is not confident. Like the game against the Preds, he even could not make saves on ordinary slap shots. Is Conklin making crazy saves like Brodeur and Luongo? No. But as we know, the Red Wings goaltending does not have to be like them because our offenses and defenses are such dominant groups. However, our goalies still have to make at least some easy shots. On that part, Osgood cannot do while Conklin can do so many times this season.

I personally do not know who will start the playoff; idealically Osgood because of playoff experience but at the end, we will probably have to go with Conklin because of better performances.

[OsGOD 3]

With Conklin in net, this should be a breeze

Conklin is hungry for a cup! Let the man start in the playoffs!

you said it man.... Backes was breezing right through last night...

Osgood's numbers against St. Louis this year are outstanding.

3-0-0 with a 1.63 GAA and a .943 save %

I'm glad he's not starting.

touche

Edited April 3, 2009 by OsGOD