Would you want Crosby on the Wings?

[Rivalred 630]

I don't think he was insulting you - just questioning your "train of thought" on how Crosby is immature.

Your my new friend!

[Drake_Marcus 890]

And to whoever was saying Crosby's point totals would increase if he were to join the Wings:

When Scotty Bowman walked in in the 90's and forced all the Wings forwards to become defensive forwards their point totals dropped.

If Steve Yzerman's point totals dropped in that situation you better believe a kid who floats at the blue line and backchecks about as had as Robert Lang would have a point drop as well.

If you're killing penalties and being matched up against the opposition's best lines in an attempt to contain them you're point totals will drop. That's a fact.

And while Pittsburgh's talent definitely falls as you look down their top 12 forwards, to insist that Crosby plays with crappy talent on the top line compared to the Wings' top line is ridiculous. He spends a good chunk of time with Malkin and when he isn't with Malkin they make sure he's with the best wingers possible.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

I never said it was his fault that he's getting the attention that he does. And me being the same age really has nothing to do with it. I don't think his age excuses his actions.

If you can't handle it, don't put yourself in a position to be faced with it. If he really wanted to, he could tell Bettman he doesn't want to be the NHL's posterboy.. but he won't. You think he's handling it well, and I'm not saying he's not. I just think he has a lot to learn.

Yeaaaaa I could see that happening:

Dear Commissioner Bettman,

As i sit here staring at my Hart, Pearson and Art Ross Trophies, i have realized that after 4 very offensively successful seasons, 3 playoff appearances including a run to the Cup Finals, in my 3 seasons as captain that I really can't handle the pressure of being the face of this league, I mean I'm only 21 after all, I wanna have some fun! No hard feelings i hope....

Sincerely,

Sidney Crosby

[Ms_Hockey 0]

I don't think he was insulting you - just questioning your "train of thought" on how Crosby is immature.

Does it really matter? Since when is being called a homer the same as telling someone they're pretty? If it was meant negatively, it's an insult. If you want to question my train of thought, then question it without the sarcasm and jabs. But that's really not the point of this thread... or really even the point of the post you quoted and replied to.

I don't see what's so hard to understand. I think Crosby is a great player. I think in a couple years he's going to be pretty immense. But RIGHT NOW.. he does some really stupid s*** that people are glossing over by saying he's young and he has pressure from all across the league.

If I make a mistake, I still get reprimanded for that even though I'm young. It's not an excuse when I do something stupid. I can't look at my dad and say "But I'm young! Give me a pass!" Life doesn't work that way.

As for the pressure.. I realize it's really not his fault. The league has unfairly put this on his shoulders - and hell, I'm not even saying that he's not handling it well. I'm just saying he still has some stuff to learn.. and until he does, I wouldn't want him on this team. That opinion seems to have pissed people off quite a bit.

On a side note, everyone wants to try to skirt around what I'm actually saying, picking at everything else without realizing that my fundamental message remains the same - and you can't argue opinion with opinion. You don't have to agree with my opinion, but you certainly should respect it. The fact that some people are getting so ridiculously pissy over a theoretical Crosby add-age to the team is just insane. I've already had to put one user on ignore due to their "I'm going to do my best to pick everything and make you look stupid while still covering it up so I appear to be an OK guy" attitude. I'm sick and tired of having to come back in here and defend myself because somebody doesn't understand how I couldn't want Crosby on this team right now.

I don't agree with you. Get over it. Move on. Stop harping on me for it. It's like any respect for a poster is lost because you don't agree with their opinion. It's pathetic.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Ms_Hockey

[Rivalred 630]

I've already had to put one user on ignore due to their "I'm going to do my best to pick everything and make you look stupid while still covering it up so I appear to be an OK guy" attitude. I'm sick and tired of having to come back in here and defend myself because somebody doesn't understand how I couldn't want Crosby on this team right now.

I don't agree with you. Get over it. Move on. Stop harping on me for it. It's like any respect for a poster is lost because you don't agree with their opinion. It's pathetic.

You have a choice of coming back into the thread and posting your opinion. Defend yourself? You act like someone is threatening you or really saying some degrading things. Best thing is to maybe not read the thread, avoid it, or so forth if you do not want to keep on coming in here.

Once again you are being conflicting. He does not agree with you and you do not agree with him, but you are telling him "get over it" / "move on" and "stop harping on me."

This has been a civilized conversation and your the one getting upset.

Edited April 27, 2009 by Rivalred

[Pensfan 0]

And while Pittsburgh's talent definitely falls as you look down their top 12 forwards, to insist that Crosby plays with crappy talent on the top line compared to the Wings' top line is ridiculous. He spends a good chunk of time with Malkin and when he isn't with Malkin they make sure he's with the best wingers possible.

He plays with Malkin on the PP and that's about it. The only other time they play together is when Bylsma tries to throw a curveball at the other team when they're on home ice, at the start of a period, or at the very end (which still rarely happens).

You don't think Crosby plays with crappy talent? Besides Hossa, name me a player that isn't a third or fourth liner that he's played with in the past.

Pascal Dupuis, Max Talbot, Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Nils Eckman, Gary Roberts, Matt Cooke, John LeClair, Mark Recchi, and Rico Fata.

You honestly believe that: Eckman - Crosby - Armstrong, was just as potent as, Holmstrom - Datsyuk - Hossa?

Edited April 27, 2009 by Pensfan

[StevieY'sguy 1]

And to whoever was saying Crosby's point totals would increase if he were to join the Wings:

When Scotty Bowman walked in in the 90's and forced all the Wings forwards to become defensive forwards their point totals dropped.

If Steve Yzerman's point totals dropped in that situation you better believe a kid who floats at the blue line and backchecks about as had as Robert Lang would have a point drop as well.

If you're killing penalties and being matched up against the opposition's best lines in an attempt to contain them you're point totals will drop. That's a fact.

And while Pittsburgh's talent definitely falls as you look down their top 12 forwards, to insist that Crosby plays with crappy talent on the top line compared to the Wings' top line is ridiculous. He spends a good chunk of time with Malkin and when he isn't with Malkin they make sure he's with the best wingers possible.

Apparently, you don't watch the Pens very often, as far Crosby's linemates and playing with Malkin, refer to the post above by PensFan, he hit the nail on the head. The Wings 3rd line wingers right now would be the first and 3rd best wingers Crosby would have ever played with from an offensively skilled standpoint. (1. Hudler, 2.Kunitz, 3, Samuelsson) By the way Crosby already does get matched up against the opposition's top line.......

As far as Crosby's point totals dropping and comparing it with Yzerman, I think you need to look a little deeper into the numbers...The season before Bowman got here Steve put up 137 points, he did not play another full, regular length season until 95-96 when he put up 95 points. 137 points to 95 points seems like a big drop but however when taking into account that it had been 2 years since he played a regular length season and put up those 137 points and, more importantly, that he was on the verge of turning 31, it is really not all that significant. Bowman's style of play certainly changed how he played the game, but the fact that he was aging had more to do with it than anything. To say if Crosby were put on the Wings for next season that his totals would drop is incorrect for many reasons, 1. He is only 21 and will keep progressing from an offensive standpoint up until around 26-28 around which time i think his points totals will peak and then will progressively level off. 2. He would have much better linemates than he does now which would only help him offensively and 3. He would not have the added pressure of leading a team, which would allow him to focus more on just playing hockey, this is the luxury that Evgeni Malkin enjoys now.

Edited April 27, 2009 by StevieY'sguy

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

I just plain old do not like him. I think there's a certain caliber of person it takes to wear the winged wheel - and I don't think that Crosby is that type of person.

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but considering three of the greatest villians in NHL history have donned the red and white after their bad reps had been established -- Ulf Samuelsson, Chris Chelios, Todd Bertuzzi -- the management and the locker room is obviously undaunted by any challenge.

[Rivalred 630]

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but considering three of the greatest villians in NHL history have donned the red and white after their bad reps had been established -- Ulf Samuelsson, Chris Chelios, Todd Bertuzzi -- the management and the locker room is obviously undaunted by any challenge.

That is a great point HOH; especially considering T O Double D.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Sid the Kid is human; he makes the occasional mistake be it on ice, or in front of a microphone...Everything he says/does has a chance to be blown outta proportion, & some folks would love to see him fail in 1 way, or another.

Anyone here remember the comment Stevie Y made during the lock-out of 94/95 in which players could use donated equipment to stay in shape since their own was not available?...Just think of the scrutiny of today's media if Crosby were to say something along these lines?

My point exactly. All I'm saying is he receives adequate monetary compensation for that scrutiny

[Drake_Marcus 890]

He plays with Malkin on the PP and that's about it. The only other time they play together is when Bylsma tries to throw a curveball at the other team when they're on home ice, at the start of a period, or at the very end (which still rarely happens).

You don't think Crosby plays with crappy talent? Besides Hossa, name me a player that isn't a third or fourth liner that he's played with in the past.

Pascal Dupuis, Max Talbot, Colby Armstrong, Erik Christensen, Nils Eckman, Gary Roberts, Matt Cooke, John LeClair, Mark Recchi, and Rico Fata.

You honestly believe that: Eckman - Crosby - Armstrong, was just as potent as, Holmstrom - Datsyuk - Hossa?

He tends to play with Malkin whenever the coach is trying to get something going or they're trailing, no?

Armstrong looked like a pretty decent winger when Crosby nearly swept the NHL awards...

One thing I'd like to point out here is that Datsyuk's numbers last year were flat out amazing when he had Holmstrom and Filppula on his wings. Note that last year Babcock liked to try and keep Datsyuk and Zetterberg separated when he could, for exactly the same reasons Malkin and Sid get separated- each player is talented enough to carry a line and two great lines is better than one super great line.

But switching from Datsyuk being on again off again with Zetterberg to Datsyuk being with Hossa or Z all year round yielded two identical point totals- 97 pts.

Crosby did have Hossa on his wing last year for a month or so (I'm not sure how long Hossa was injured after the trade deadline)... and Crosby still didn't clean up like he did in the 06-07 season.

All I'm saying is that up to a certain point the raw talent on a player's line isn't as important as chemistry. I honestly think it was stupid to trade Armstrong away last year- Crosby still hasn't managed to get that level of comfort and chemistry back with a winger.

As far as his past wingers go here are the ones from your list that I already could name as his winger:

Dupuis, Armstrong, Christensen, Roberts, and Recchi. (although to be fair- I am Canadian and we're regularly tested by the government on hockey knowledge)

Roberts, Dupuis and Recchi are all serviceable wingers, but the rest were pretty cruddy.

Regardless- you take 3-4 minutes away from Crosby's nightly total AND you take a minute or two of powerplay time away AND you make him play 3 or more minutes of PK a night. Then you start deliberately matching him up to the opposition's best forwards instead of their weak underbelly (although I do understand why you'd play Sid against their worst players- he'll damage their ego pretty quickly). Do you honestly think adding Zetterberg or Hossa to his wing (instead of sometimes having Malkin there) is going to increase his numbers? Trust me- Crosby (and Malkin AND Ovechkin for that matter) has the optimal situation for maximizing his point total.

When you're expected to be a Selke-caliber player all year long your point totals will fall. If it happened to Steve Yzerman- a guy who scored nearly 700 goals and sits among the top 10 scorers of all time, it'd happen to Crosby.

Take Fedorov for example, he had a very similar career path to Crosby in the beginning (aside from being a Selke guy in addition to a Hart kinda guy, but you know what I mean). Bowman came along and forced defense down his throat (not that he wasn't already defensively sound, but I'm thinking of the whole team commitment to defense thing) and his numbers drop...

When you're forced to balance defense and offense instead of maximize offense, it's inevitable that your numbers drop. I'm not convinced that a slight or even moderate difference in winger talent is going to significantly compensate for that.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Apparently, you don't watch the Pens very often, as far Crosby's linemates and playing with Malkin, refer to the post above by PensFan, he hit the nail on the head. The Wings 3rd line wingers right now would be the first and 3rd best wingers Crosby would have ever played with from an offensively skilled standpoint. (1. Hudler, 2.Kunitz, 3, Samuelsson) By the way Crosby already does get matched up against the opposition's top line.......

As far as Crosby's point totals dropping and comparing it with Yzerman, I think you need to look a little deeper into the numbers...The season before Bowman got here Steve put up 137 points, he did not play another full, regular length season until 95-96 when he put up 95 points. 137 points to 95 points seems like a big drop but however when taking into account that it had been 2 years since he played a regular length season and put up those 137 points and, more importantly, that he was on the verge of turning 31, it is really not all that significant. Bowman's style of play certainly changed how he played the game, but the fact that he was aging had more to do with it than anything. To say if Crosby were put on the Wings for next season that his totals would drop is incorrect for many reasons, 1. He is only 21 and will keep progressing from an offensive standpoint up until around 26-28 around which time i think his points totals will peak and then will progressively level off. 2. He would have much better linemates than he does now which would only help him offensively and 3. He would not have the added pressure of leading a team, which would allow him to focus more on just playing hockey, this is the luxury that Evgeni Malkin enjoys now.

I'm actually well aware of the Pens- they're on TV here about as often as the news.

See my post above for an explanation of my comments.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Yeaaaaa I could see that happening:

Dear Commissioner Bettman,

As i sit here staring at my Hart, Pearson and Art Ross Trophies, i have realized that after 4 very offensively successful seasons, 3 playoff appearances including a run to the Cup Finals, in my 3 seasons as captain that I really can't handle the pressure of being the face of this league, I mean I'm only 21 after all, I wanna have some fun! No hard feelings i hope....

Sincerely,

Sidney Crosby

Man you're a pompous ass. Here's a tip- don't imply Crosby's had the most significant impact over the last 4 years. He hasn't. Ovechkin has. Only Ovechkin's swept the 4 major NHL awards. Ovechkin's also won the Calder in that span and another Rocket, and likely another Hart and Pearson.

Here's a similar letter one could write:

Dear Commissioner Bettman,

As I sit here staring at my Calder, two Harts, two Pearsons, two Rocket Richards, and my Art Ros trophies, I've realized that after four amazing seasons over which I've lead my team and the league in goals scored, become the first player since 1953 to be named an NHL First Team All-Star in each of my first three years in the NHL and enjoyed amazing success, that I feel it's time to step up and shoulder a bit more burden for the game I love. If you would like, I'm willing to be marketed by the league more so than as a minor star player. If you'd like, you could say I'd like to become the 'face of the game'. I'm willing to take on the terrible, terrible burden of public responsibility in exchange for the pool full of money I know will come from lucrative endorsements from companies like Gatorade (or is that "G"?). I mean I'm only 22 after all, I wanna have some more fun! Please note, that in deference to my ascension to manhood, I've decided to capitalize my i's when referring to myself. No hard feelings I hope....

Sincerely,

Alexander Ovechkin

Validictorian of Awesome University

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Man you're a pompous ass. Here's a tip- don't imply Crosby's had the most significant impact over the last 4 years. He hasn't. Ovechkin has. Only Ovechkin's swept the 4 major NHL awards. Ovechkin's also won the Calder in that span and another Rocket, and likely another Hart and Pearson.

Here's a similar letter one could write:

Dear Commissioner Bettman,

As I sit here staring at my Calder, two Harts, two Pearsons, two Rocket Richards, and my Art Ros trophies, I've realized that after four amazing seasons over which I've lead my team and the league in goals scored, become the first player since 1953 to be named an NHL First Team All-Star in each of my first three years in the NHL and enjoyed amazing success, that I feel it's time to step up and shoulder a bit more burden for the game I love. If you would like, I'm willing to be marketed by the league more so than as a minor star player. If you'd like, you could say I'd like to become the 'face of the game'. I'm willing to take on the terrible, terrible burden of public responsibility in exchange for the pool full of money I know will come from lucrative endorsements from companies like Gatorade (or is that "G"?). I mean I'm only 22 after all, I wanna have some more fun! Please note, that in deference to my ascension to manhood, I've decided to capitalize my i's when referring to myself. No hard feelings I hope....

Sincerely,

Alexander Ovechkin

Validictorian of Awesome University

apparently you don't read all the posts on this board, but my Crosby "letter" was in response to the post saying that Crosby should simply "tell Bettman he doesn't want to be the NHL's posterboy anymore". Not one time did I imply that Crosby had the most significant impact on the game in the last 4 years, I was pointing out his accomplishments to prove that he isn't exactly crumbly in his role as the NHL's posterboy......A role that Ovechkin, no matter how well he does, will never play due to his being from another continent, him looking like a scrub, etc. Like it or not, you can't ignore that the NHL will be feeding us a steady dose Crosby for the next decade, he may not have had the most significant impact (debatable, Ovie has more individual success, but Crosby more team success) but he is without a doubt the posterboy of the league.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

He tends to play with Malkin whenever the coach is trying to get something going or they're trailing, no?

Armstrong looked like a pretty decent winger when Crosby nearly swept the NHL awards...

One thing I'd like to point out here is that Datsyuk's numbers last year were flat out amazing when he had Holmstrom and Filppula on his wings. Note that last year Babcock liked to try and keep Datsyuk and Zetterberg separated when he could, for exactly the same reasons Malkin and Sid get separated- each player is talented enough to carry a line and two great lines is better than one super great line.

But switching from Datsyuk being on again off again with Zetterberg to Datsyuk being with Hossa or Z all year round yielded two identical point totals- 97 pts.

Crosby did have Hossa on his wing last year for a month or so (I'm not sure how long Hossa was injured after the trade deadline)... and Crosby still didn't clean up like he did in the 06-07 season.

All I'm saying is that up to a certain point the raw talent on a player's line isn't as important as chemistry. I honestly think it was stupid to trade Armstrong away last year- Crosby still hasn't managed to get that level of comfort and chemistry back with a winger.

As far as his past wingers go here are the ones from your list that I already could name as his winger:

Dupuis, Armstrong, Christensen, Roberts, and Recchi. (although to be fair- I am Canadian and we're regularly tested by the government on hockey knowledge)

Roberts, Dupuis and Recchi are all serviceable wingers, but the rest were pretty cruddy.

Regardless- you take 3-4 minutes away from Crosby's nightly total AND you take a minute or two of powerplay time away AND you make him play 3 or more minutes of PK a night. Then you start deliberately matching him up to the opposition's best forwards instead of their weak underbelly (although I do understand why you'd play Sid against their worst players- he'll damage their ego pretty quickly). Do you honestly think adding Zetterberg or Hossa to his wing (instead of sometimes having Malkin there) is going to increase his numbers? Trust me- Crosby (and Malkin AND Ovechkin for that matter) has the optimal situation for maximizing his point total.

When you're expected to be a Selke-caliber player all year long your point totals will fall. If it happened to Steve Yzerman- a guy who scored nearly 700 goals and sits among the top 10 scorers of all time, it'd happen to Crosby.

Take Fedorov for example, he had a very similar career path to Crosby in the beginning (aside from being a Selke guy in addition to a Hart kinda guy, but you know what I mean). Bowman came along and forced defense down his throat (not that he wasn't already defensively sound, but I'm thinking of the whole team commitment to defense thing) and his numbers drop...

When you're forced to balance defense and offense instead of maximize offense, it's inevitable that your numbers drop. I'm not convinced that a slight or even moderate difference in winger talent is going to significantly compensate for that.

Crosby played with Hossa for 7 regular season games and put up 9 points, then went on to tie for the playoff scoring lead. Roberts and Recchi are serviceable wingers and the Backstreet Boys are coming out with a new CD.....Oh wait, this isn't 1998 anymore, Roberts and Recchi have been washed up for years and Dupuis is a 3rd liner all the way, give me a break. Also Datsyuk put up identical point numbers to last year with different linemates but in those years he was 30 and 31, so for all we know he may have peaked, Crosby has not even scratched the surface of his potential- he is only 21 so to think that if he were put on the wings and made to play more D that he would just cease to get better offensively at the age of 21 is absurd.

Edited April 27, 2009 by StevieY'sguy

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Crosby played with Hossa for 7 regular season games and put up 9 points, then went on to tie for the playoff scoring lead. Roberts and Recchi are serviceable wingers and the Backstreet Boys are coming out with a new CD.....Oh wait, this isn't 1998 anymore, Roberts and Recchi have been washed up for years and Dupuis is a 3rd liner all the way, give me a break. Also Datsyuk put up identical point numbers to last year with different linemates but in those years he was 30 and 31, so for all we know he may have peaked, Crosby has not even scratched the surface of his potential- he is only 21 so to think that if he were put on the wings and made to play more D that he would just cease to get better offensively at the age of 21 is absurd.

Oh really? Datsyuk turned 30 this year, so that's news to me. And noting Datsyuk's age when he entered the league it's fair to say he's a late bloomer- this isn't necessarily his career peak.

I find it more absurd that you believe Crosby offensive output is trending upwards so dramatically, despite a lack of evidence to point to that fact since his amazing 06-07 campaign. This year he didn't even manage to beat his rookie point total.

Crosby's had a 120 point campaign (2 seasons ago)... how much more do you think he's going to score? Do you expect he'll have a 150 pt campaign in the modern NHL!?! A 200 pt campaign? While the sky is the limit for Crosby, I have a hard time imagining he'll reach that kind of 1980's - mid-1990's point total.

Regardless, playing a defensively responsible game is much tougher than you believe.

[BeeRYCE 2]

I guess I'll expand on the Crosby being better defensively than Malkin and Ovechkin argument...

I watch Ovechkin play, I know he's a great player, and I know it's not his position to be a third defenseman seeing as he's a winger... But I do notice that he doesn't backcheck as good as he should... He kind of slowly skates in the zone when the opposing team brings it in and he kind of waits for a turnover, he doesn't cause the turnover, he waits for it. I know it's a winger's responsibility to wait along the boards for the breakout pass, but he rarely looks responsible in his own end and I have seen him get deked out a few times. Malkin is kind of the same way, and he is a centerman, he just doesn't look responsible.

Crosby plays the position of a third defenseman quite nicely, and it is tough to get by him. The Pens don't use him on the PK, or at least not often, but if they didn't want to save him for crucial offensive minutes, he would play the PK, and he would do a great job at it. He is quicker with his stick, better at simply taking the puck away, and doesn't hesitate to speed skate in his own end when there is a 2 on 1 or a 3 on 2. There might be something I'm missing, but overall Crosby seems to care more about the outcome of the game than he does points, even though he gets plenty of them.

[StevieY'sguy 1]

Oh really? Datsyuk turned 30 this year, so that's news to me. And noting Datsyuk's age when he entered the league it's fair to say he's a late bloomer- this isn't necessarily his career peak.

I find it more absurd that you believe Crosby offensive output is trending upwards so dramatically, despite a lack of evidence to point to that fact since his amazing 06-07 campaign. This year he didn't even manage to beat his rookie point total.

Crosby's had a 120 point campaign (2 seasons ago)... how much more do you think he's going to score? Do you expect he'll have a 150 pt campaign in the modern NHL!?! A 200 pt campaign? While the sky is the limit for Crosby, I have a hard time imagining he'll reach that kind of 1980's - mid-1990's point total.

Regardless, playing a defensively responsible game is much tougher than you believe.

Ok i was wrong, Datsyuk was 29 and 30 however, Datsyuk did not turn 30 this year, but rather last July. I would say that Datsyuk was most certainly a late bloomer and this may not be the peak of his career, although very few male athletes reach their peak statistical performance in their mid to early thrities compared to their mid to late 20s (Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, other athletes on juice nonwithstanding) and if he does improve his point output, I doubt it will be by much, thats just the nature of the beast that is aging. As far as Crosby's peaking offensive output, i didn't necessarily mean that he will be putting up 150 points seasons year after year, although if he focused only on offense then he would almost certainly be able to achieve those heights......what i meant is that through most of the next decade I'm sure he will work on other facets of his game (defense, etc) and spend less time on offense, but will continue to put up 100 point seasons year after year. You more than anyone would seem to appreciate a consistent level of offensive production while a player added a higher level of defense to his game.

[HOCKEY MATTERS 167]

Replying to Would you want Crosby on the Wings? Nope. Don't want him.

[McCartyFanForLife 17]

This thread is ridiculous because for those who like Crosby and think he would make a great addition to the Wings are NOT going to convince the group that doesn't like Crosby that he would be a good fit.

Would Crosby excel on the Wings? Nobody knows because it is a hypothetical situation. It can't be proven one way or the other.

Back to the original question: Would you want Crosby on the Wings?

Answer: NO; people can freak out and say "Why would you not want such a productive player on the Wings?". Well, I just don't like Crosby... I don't like his attitude. His complaints about officiating after losses is ridiculous. Crosby is on my list of people that I hope never get their name on the Stanley Cup.

[arnoldbuck 0]

I know. It's really funny when people get worked up and start insulting each other's intelligence because they gave the incorrect opinion...and on the internet on top of it because apparently it really matters whether someone you don't know in real life agrees with you.

Just ask Perez.

[egroen 384]

As a player? Yes.

As a captain? No.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

So then why pick Crosby in the first place? If we're simply dividing defensive responsibility into 'Selke finalists' and 'not Selke finalists' give me Malkin or Ovechkin. Both of them have MORE points per season than Crosby and don't offer a heck of a lot on the back end, so if we're in some no-holds-barred fantasy scenario where we're picking one-way forwards isn't it only logical to pick the players with more offensive output? The argument is already being made that it's illogical to not want even more offensive potential, so why should it be logical to argue in favour of taking on the #3 guy when you should be going for #1?

Because the question posed was about Crosby. Not about Ovechkin or Malkin or Alexandre Daigle. Savvy?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

Speaking of school systems... anyone who tagged Fedorov as a playoff no show at any point during his Red Wing tenure, early or otherwise, is a hell of a lot less S-M-R-T smart than you're making out the guys who'd pass on Crosby. That sentence alone is just mind-boggling as if Datsyuk is an afterthought in regards to playoff no-shows early in careers whereas Fedorov stands out as a shining example of checking out come April. Just doesn't make any sense. I doubt you could have come up with a worse name to stick in there.

Hey Nick, I know you have a huge hard one for Feds. I get it. But don't blame me. I didn't write the articles about Fedorov those many years ago. I just read them as a young kid. Most of them were in the Hockey News.

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

This thread makes me VERY sad panda.

It's enough to admit that Crosby has considerable talent. I'm no idiot. I know that the guy is going to be a monster on the ice. I just plain old do not like him. I think there's a certain caliber of person it takes to wear the winged wheel - and I don't think that Crosby is that type of person. I don't think it's just immaturity. For those of you excusing his actions by saying he's only 21, stop. I'm 20 years old and there's nothing more irritating than somebody excusing my ignorance or immaturity because I'm young. That's absolutely no reason to give someone a pass. At 21, he should know better. Hell, at 20, I should know better. Maybe in a few years, he'll change and I'd be comfortable enough to say sure - join our crew. But right now? No. I don't think he's the caliber of person I'd want in a Red Wings sweater.

Ulf Samuellson, Dino Ciccarelli, Sean Avery, etc......

People need to get over the whole Wings are God's gift to the universe. There are 29 other NHL teams and they all have wonderful hockey players who are wonderful people too.

As far as pointing out his age goes. It needs to be mentioned because people like you are comparing his apparent immaturity against what? You're comparing him against guys like Datsyuk, Lidstrom and Zetterberg.

If Datsyuk, Lidsterom and Z were all 21 years old then you'd have a point. Since they aren't. They you're obviously missing part of the equation here.