are wings developing their prospects too slowly?

[Phazon 24]

Looking at caps etc. Their goalie is 20 years old, goes into the playoffs and does a very good job. then we have kane and toews in chicago, theyre so young but they make a difference right away.

A lot of wings prospects end up playing season after season in AHL, it might help their developing, but it can hurt also.

[zata20 4]

Looking at caps etc. Their goalie is 20 years old, goes into the playoffs and does a very good job. then we have kane and toews in chicago, theyre so young but they make a difference right away.

A lot of wings prospects end up playing season after season in AHL, it might help their developing, but it can hurt also.

No, not at all. The Redwings always have late round picks, sometimes not any in the first couple of rounds. Generally speaking these players are not NHL ready when they are drafted. Not one of these young redwings like Helm, Abdelkader, Ericcson were NHL ready when they got drafted. Especially Ericsson since he didn't become a defenseman until the year he was drafted. NHL ready players are usually drafted in the top ten picks in the first round, maybe first 15. It also depends on the player. If management and coaches think a player is ready he will be playin in the NHL. Unless of course you don't have salary room like the RedWings.

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

Looking at caps etc. Their goalie is 20 years old, goes into the playoffs and does a very good job. then we have kane and toews in chicago, theyre so young but they make a difference right away.

A lot of wings prospects end up playing season after season in AHL, it might help their developing, but it can hurt also.

Good question and I do agree, but what you have to realize is that the Wings are so deep at the NHL level it is very tough for these youngsters to crack the line up,

and at the same time it has been almost 2 decades since the Wings even drafted early, so it may just take a little longer to make sure that their prospects are ready for the show after all this is the Wings and they are expected to perform on the highest level day in and day out.

GO WINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited May 12, 2009 by DEVILSWATERBOY

[sean 19]

It's just not worth the risk for the Wings.

It is entirely possible, that people like Ericsson, Helm, and etc, could have been playing to the standard they are now 2 or 3 years ago, a la Varly and others. It is also possible that they flop, or become discouraged at the NHL level.

When you've got the depth the Wings have, there's no reason to take this risk.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

Considering the results of this franchise over the past 20 years, I say no. This has been a team of depth pre and post lockout. As long as this franchise continues to put an elite team on the ice year after year, I don't see anything to complain about.

Lets go Red Wings!

[dat's sick 1,002]

At times I think players might be stuck in the AHL for too long, look at Helm and Ericsson. Both would have been playing the entire season in the NHL if they belonged to any other team. Leino too.

But you can't compare the Wings prospects to Kane/Toews and the like. Most of the Wings prospects need time to develop, and the Wings give them that time in a great organization that puts them on the right track.

[KrazyGangsta 79]

I am not willing to throw in a 3-4-5-6th rounders in the team when there 20. They are not ready and they need 2 years at least to groom. I mean I don't see any of our players rotting. We don't have any 1st round picks in the bottom 15 to get a starter off the bat. Also we mostly get players from europe which aren't used to games across the pond. Different style of game they need to get used to it.

[swiss_fan 3]

I would say a bit yes. Particulary i m a bit concerned about Leino. This guy is a pearl and it would be a real loss if he goes through free agency. I thought it was not so fair we played Abdelkader before him, bu i totally understand why.

By the way, it seems to me that no one really know the status of Leino: he is really a RFA? if yes, we don t risk so much to loose him. If he s a RFA, we definitively should have played him more to give him the envy to stay.

[C-TownWing 0]

I am not willing to throw in a 3-4-5-6th rounders in the team when there 20. They are not ready and they need 2 years at least to groom. I mean I don't see any of our players rotting. We don't have any 1st round picks in the bottom 15 to get a starter off the bat. Also we mostly get players from europe which aren't used to games across the pond. Different style of game they need to get used to it.

Agree with this one...I really don't see anyone rotting, and the guys that we're churning out of GR just keep coming through for us. I have to think we're handling it beautifully.

You can't really compare with Varlamov...don't forget that the Caps thought they'd be going in with Theodore and Brent Johnson. I suppose if Conklin got hurt and we needed to bench Ozzie in the playoffs, we would've seen Howard (who may be the one exception to the "nobody's rotting" argument, although I'm not that impressed with him anyway).

Kane and Toews were both top 3 draft picks, you can't compare their development curve to our top 200s (or so), or even our late 1st rounders.

[Doggy 130]

The AHL is a great developmental league. It gives young players the best possible preparation for NHL-level hockey. We don't have any prospects like Toews or Kane that are top draft-picks and can compete in their teens. Players like Ericsson, Helm and Abdelkader most likely wouldn't have been very good without the AHL preparation they got.

I don't think it's possible for a player younger than 25 to "rot" in the AHL and I think Ken Holland would say the same.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

Great time for this article to be written, I guess:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=422455

And, no. The Wings are developing their prospects at the perfect speed, and everyone around the league takes notice.

They're also jealous that they can't take their prospects as slowly as the Wings do, given our organizational depth and success.

[Opie 308]

WOW I must have smoked some hella weed man, did I lose focus, is this not 2009 and is this team not in the midst of a Stanley cup Defense after being a top team in the league for 15 years in a row, that has had 4 years in a row of 100 point 50 win seasons, did they not just have a 112 point season 3rd in the league.

I am sorry did I really get that stoned that I missed that big of chunk of time, I mean the post dates still seem correct but it could be a glitch on the DB server!

But I guess if they are still operating the way they were before I got stoned, and now that because they suck and now some other team with a different theory has come in and dominated for more than 15 years winning 3 cups back to back to back (in order to best what the wings in the 90's did) and have won 5 (possibly 6 after this year to best the org the past 15 years) then I guess we should start questioning the way they bring players up. Whom usually stay up or should but can't due to cap.

You know unlike MAF who was horrible and got sent down, mainly because he was brought up to early.

{/sarcasm}

Long Answer

Look at it this way, how many Wing draft picks are still in the league, and how many of them, like Quincey went elsewhere and made a difference, how many of the Wings really low picks have turned out better than other teams high picks?

Is it because they season their players and it is not too overwhelming for them?

Is it because they are ready to deal with it?

An 17 year old is destroying Juniors, has been the best player everywhere he has ever gone, say a Sidney Crosby, he is thrown in to the mix in the NHL and he struggles instead of being a one man show like Crosby was. He then becomes Dan Cleary.

If not for Cleary's determination he is not in the League any more, he worked for what he has in Detroit!

Now how many kids are iced before they are ready and it destroys their career?

For most kids (that is what we are talking about after all) do not play anywhere near 82 games a season, let a lone at the pace and demands of the NHL level. Then the Europeans that come over have to deal with a new rink.

Plus the kids in the Wings org earn their stripes and when they do get here they have earned and know they deserve to be here or they wouldn't.

Derek Meech, do you think he is ready, how about Jonathon Ericsson. Baseed purely on how the team has used them, whom do you believe the team believes in more!

Short Answer:

Hell No! 4 cups just over 10 years! 4 50 win Seasons in a row!

BTW the Wings kept Z and D in the AHL for how long?

They know when their players are ready!

Edited May 12, 2009 by Opie

[dat's sick 1,002]

I agree with pretty much all of that Opie.

Just a note though, in the case of Z they "kept" him in the SEL for a few years before bringing him over. They allowed him to develop there instead of the AHL, since that league is atleast as good as the AHL.

[Louisville 112]

There are also highly drafted players that don't do much their first few years in the NHL. Phill Kessel is finally coming into form but was only average until recently.

Steve Stamkos? Everyone made a big deal about him and he ended with 46 pts. It will take him a couple years too.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

I would say a bit yes. Particulary i m a bit concerned about Leino. This guy is a pearl and it would be a real loss if he goes through free agency. I thought it was not so fair we played Abdelkader before him, bu i totally understand why.

By the way, it seems to me that no one really know the status of Leino: he is really a RFA? if yes, we don t risk so much to loose him. If he s a RFA, we definitively should have played him more to give him the envy to stay.

Who cares about fair? You bring up the best player who will fill the necessary role. Leino is not a grinder and a checker, that was the type of player that was needed. Leino hasn't even been playing North American hockey for a full season. He is a very skilled player, but right now, is there anyone who you would take out of the lineup to put him in? I don't think one year on the farm is too slow for a player.

[DMAC 25 18]

no they'll be fine, the only one i'm worried about now is howard just because hes not consistent enough yet but other than him i think they'll be fine. its tough to break the lineup this year so its not like their bad players or anything

[Zetterberg2008ConnSmythe 0]

Varlamov was thrust in there due to need and Toews and Kane were top 10 picks.

[CenterIce 83]

By the way, it seems to me that no one really know the status of Leino: he is really a RFA? if yes, we don t risk so much to loose him. If he s a RFA, we definitively should have played him more to give him the envy to stay.

Leino is a RFA, so the Wings can match any offer given to him or receive draft picks based on the value of the offer.

[Opie 308]

Great time for this article to be written, I guess:

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=422455

And, no. The Wings are developing their prospects at the perfect speed, and everyone around the league takes notice.

They're also jealous that they can't take their prospects as slowly as the Wings do, given our organizational depth and success.

This is all that needed to be said, forget you ever read my post or any others and read this article and the quotes like this:

"You've just got to deal with it," Helm said. "It's not something that I was really too worried about. Obviously I wanted to play for the Wings and I was part of the team last year. I just tried to play as well as I could in Grand Rapids and show my game.

"When I had the opportunity to come back, I wanted to be as ready as I could be."

"I played good last year," Ericsson said. "But then at the beginning of this season, I didn't think I played as well as I should. We had a good discussion. We all thought it was best for me to go down and get a lot of minutes and find my game again and be prepared when I got up here again."

"I think this was the absolute best way for me for developing and becoming a better player," Ericsson said. "I wouldn't want to change anything."

[stevkrause 1,247]

Considering the results of this franchise over the past 20 years, I say no. This has been a team of depth pre and post lockout. As long as this franchise continues to put an elite team on the ice year after year, I don't see anything to complain about.

Lets go Red Wings!

^

this.

[ben_usmc 253]

have to say no the system seems to work, and I think the young players play even harder in when up because they know it isn't just given to them. Also I would like to say for how bad the Griffins were last year, I'm excited with the huge turn around and how good they were this year, I can't wait to see the young guns play more and more.

[swiss_fan 3]

There are also highly drafted players that don't do much their first few years in the NHL. Phill Kessel is finally coming into form but was only average until recently.

Steve Stamkos? Everyone made a big deal about him and he ended with 46 pts. It will take him a couple years too.

Steve Stamkos will be brilliant. He had a slow start cuz mainly of his coach and very very few ice time; but i saw him at the world championship here in switzerland and he was great

Who cares about fair?

The red wings organization care about fair; otherwise we would probably see not a lot of Maltby again, especially next year. And you say you don t care; like i ve stated, if he go away this summer it will be painful

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

the difference between red wings prospects and other teams is draft position....

the wings last high draft picks were yzerman, lidstrom and federov if im not mistaken. 18 year olds that come in and make a difference in the league right away are generally in the top 10 in the draft, which the wings don't get because they're always in the 25-30 range for their 1st pick. the wings draft guys with "potential" as opposed to immediate skill, like toews, kane, crosby, etc. the "black aces" earn their spot on a great team/organization. they're not expected to come into a crappy team and steal the show their rookie season....stamkos - t bay, crosby - pens. that's what happens when you're a model of consistancy, you maintain your team over time instead of rebuilding every few years. what's that, 17 or 18 years in a row in the playoffs? i'd take diamonds in the rough like dats and z over drafted superstars. the wings know how to do business...that's why guys like hossa come for less and are trying desperately to stay. helm, abdelkader and ericsson are the players they are now because of the path they took to earn their spot on a team that could win now 5 in 12 years

[C-TownWing 0]

the difference between red wings prospects and other teams is draft position....

the wings last high draft picks were yzerman, lidstrom and federov if im not mistaken.

Lidstrom (53rd) and Fedorov (74th) weren't even high picks, that's the crazy part. Even back then we could pick em. Fedorov would've been higher, except we were still at a point in history where you had to sneak guys out of the Soviet Union or Eastern Europe.

I believe Marty Lapointe (in 1991) was our last top 10 pick. Freaking insane.

[rwfan007 18]

The Wings see our AHL players in this light: they let them play in the minors until the players MAKE the Wings call them up. They have to play their way onto the roster, and are not given spots. That is why you will not see an 18 year old Red Wing anytime soon. Our farm system is a prime spot for players to grow and if they produce enough to make the front office of the Wings take notice and say, "Hey, we should give this kid a shot here." When they have nothing else to prove in the AHL, the Wings give them one more year down there just to be sure, and then that player will be NHL ready.