pavyaz19 1 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Here is what was on the official scoresheet this morning in case new users to this thread have missed it... (this was posted on a similar thread that has since been merged with an obsolete GDT from yesterday)... 20:00ANACorey Perry : Roughing - 2 min 20:00ANACorey Perry : Fighting (maj) - 5 min 20:00ANACorey Perry : Misconduct (10 min) - 0 min 20:00ANAScott Niedermayer : Fighting (maj) - 5 min 20:00ANATodd Marchant : Game misconduct - 0 min 20:00ANARyan Getzlaf : Hooking - 2 min 20:00ANARyan Getzlaf : Roughing - 2 min 20:00DETPavel Datsyuk : Fighting (maj) - 5 min 20:00DETBrian Rafalski : Fighting (maj) - 5 min Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kidish 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Agreed, but my point is your post saying that this would have been acceptable 10 years ago doesn't change the fact that according to today's rules and interpretations (especially the last 5 minutes rule) make this a different situation than 10 years ago. No, I get what you're saying, but...it just isn't the case. It HAPPENS still to this day, and like it or not, the league doesn't do much about it. Every year this sort of thing happens, and no suspensions occur. Last two Cup Finals: Niedermayer gets a puck shot at his chest blatantly, huge scrum occurs, no penalties or suspensions. Last year: Osgood is taken out--penalty is called--and a huge scrum occurs where both sides pull some cheap shots, no suspensions. Scrums happen in hockey. That's something that won't change unless they remove fighting altogether. The elbow was s***, I'm not disagreeing on that. So I mean, if that's the bother with anything I'm saying, I'm already agreeing with you. Just the rest of it: hey, that was a hockey scrum, let it fuel the fire for game seven already! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kidish 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Amazing, none of Ducks players started or did anything wrong. Haha, he's living in a nice fantasy world then. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ducks4cup 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Amazing, none of Ducks players started or did anything wrong. I never said the ducks didn't do anything wrong. I said this brawl started bc of a sucker punch thrown by Hossa. Thats' not really arguable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ducks4cup 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 I don't recall many singling out Getzlaf for a suspension. Whatever Hossa did to Getzlaf, or Getzlaf did to Hossa is not a free pass for Neidermayer and Perry to go after Datsyuk and Rafalski. Never said it made Nieds elbow OK, I simply said it started b/c of an sucker punch thrown by Hossa. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Duck Guy 86 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Don't feel so spited. Nothing came out of the obvious Homer elbow either. Obviously I don't like the elbow Nieds threw, but if you ask me the Homer elbow was worse. I know most wings fans don't thin it was intentional but I for sure think it was. Granted Nieds elbow looked harder Pav & Nieds had already engaged in a fight and Homer threw an elbow to an injured player. There is no way you can compare the two elbows... that's like trying to compare apples and windshield Wipers ... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Shoreline Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Both teams are fighting hard. The Ducks are known for being chippy and dirty. So what? People getting upset about this are being far too knee-jerk. Pavel is most upset about Niedermayer blanketing him on defense than giving him an extra shot after the whistle. If he was scoring all over Nieds.. well.. obviously this doesn't happen. He's frustrated and pissed at himself. Let's hope for Game 7 he shows up and leaves Nieds jock in the rafters from those wonderful dekes he can do. He should know by now, however, that Nieds is playing the body and should think ahead. Btw, this was sure as hell not a "brawl". Maybe for Wings standards. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kidish 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Both teams are fighting hard. The Ducks are known for being chippy and dirty. So what? People getting upset about this are being far too knee-jerk. Pavel is most upset about Niedermayer blanketing him on defense than giving him an extra shot after the whistle. If he was scoring all over Nieds.. well.. obviously this doesn't happen. He's frustrated and pissed at himself. Let's hope for Game 7 he shows up and leaves Nieds jock in the rafters from those wonderful dekes he can do. He should know by now, however, that Nieds is playing the body and should think ahead. Btw, this was sure as hell not a "brawl". Maybe for Wings standards. THAT'S what I've been saying. Thank you for saying it better. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frozen-Man 144 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 No, I get what you're saying, but...it just isn't the case. It HAPPENS still to this day, and like it or not, the league doesn't do much about it. Every year this sort of thing happens, and no suspensions occur. Last two Cup Finals: Niedermayer gets a puck shot at his chest blatantly, huge scrum occurs, no penalties or suspensions. Last year: Osgood is taken out--penalty is called--and a huge scrum occurs where both sides pull some cheap shots, no suspensions. Scrums happen in hockey. That's something that won't change unless they remove fighting altogether. The elbow was s***, I'm not disagreeing on that. So I mean, if that's the bother with anything I'm saying, I'm already agreeing with you. Just the rest of it: hey, that was a hockey scrum, let it fuel the fire for game seven already! Yeah I agree BUT that is not what the rules say. The actual rule was quoted earlier in this thread but there should be suspensions based upon fighting in the last 5 minutes. I am not a big fan of the rule but it is the rule. I never said the ducks didn't do anything wrong. I said this brawl started bc of a sucker punch thrown by Hossa. Thats' not really arguable. Um yeah it is arguable largely because it is not even remotely correct. Hossa didn't throw a sucker punch and your accusation that he did is laughable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
T.Low 1,011 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Both teams are fighting hard. The Ducks are known for being chippy and dirty. So what? People getting upset about this are being far too knee-jerk. Pavel is most upset about Niedermayer blanketing him on defense than giving him an extra shot after the whistle. If he was scoring all over Nieds.. well.. obviously this doesn't happen. He's frustrated and pissed at himself. Let's hope for Game 7 he shows up and leaves Nieds jock in the rafters from those wonderful dekes he can do. He should know by now, however, that Nieds is playing the body and should think ahead. Btw, this was sure as hell not a "brawl". Maybe for Wings standards. Bravo. That about covers it. Nothing else really needs to be said. Everything else is just minutiae. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Horrible elbow by Neids. Obviously was mad that Datsyuk was on his ass there so he threw his arm back to get him off. I'm glad I missed this game. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Datsook 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 I've said it before and I'll say it again. The big shiny silver thing awarded in June isn't won with a dick measuring contest. 90-95% of the league could win fights with the Wings. That's fine. It's completely worthless. I realize some fans need high PIM counts from the Wings to affirm their own manhood, but it really doesn't do anything for me. Some fans may feel shame and embarassment, but that's on them, not the Wings. The game of hockey and subsequently the Stanley Cup is won between the whistles. Agreed. Getzlaf 6'3" 221lbs Perry 6'3" 209 lbs Pronger 6'6" 220 lbs Lids 6'2" 190 lbs do people seriously think lidstrom should have got involved? Rediculous Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylee 727 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 HOLY CRAP! i did not see that elbow when it was happening live! and the OP said it absolutely correct. that was DEFINITELY an intent to injury Niedermayer threw his freaking elbow in Datsyuk's face! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest micah Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Yeah I agree BUT that is not what the rules say. The actual rule was quoted earlier in this thread but there should be suspensions based upon fighting in the last 5 minutes. I am not a big fan of the rule but it is the rule. Fighting in the last 5 minutes is the same as fighting anywhere else, as long as the instigator penalty isn't called. Even if it is called in the last 5 minutes, the league can and does waive the additional penalties that come with instigating in the last 5 minutes if the guy is a skilled player and not a habitual offender. All of the guys on the ice at the end of the game are skill guys. It just happens that one team's skilled guys also happen to be kinda tough, and the other team's kinda aren't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ducks4cup 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Um yeah it is arguable largely because it is not even remotely correct. Hossa didn't throw a sucker punch and your accusation that he did is laughable. Your right my DVR is lying Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Doc Holiday 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Fighting in the last 5 minutes is the same as fighting anywhere else, as long as the instigator penalty isn't called. Even if it is called in the last 5 minutes, the league can and does waive the additional penalties that come with instigating in the last 5 minutes if the guy is a skilled player and not a habitual offender. All of the guys on the ice at the end of the game are skill guys. It just happens that one team's skilled guys also happen to be kinda tough, and the other team's kinda aren't. Almost all their skilled guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Electrophile 3,554 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 I've said it before and I'll say it again. The big shiny silver thing awarded in June isn't won with a dick measuring contest. 90-95% of the league could win fights with the Wings. That's fine. It's completely worthless. I realize some fans need high PIM counts from the Wings to affirm their own manhood, but it really doesn't do anything for me. Some fans may feel shame and embarassment, but that's on them, not the Wings. The game of hockey and subsequently the Stanley Cup is won between the whistles. Bless you for saying this. It's like you crawled into my brain and read my thoughts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Theophany 110 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Your right my DVR is lying The argument isn't that your DVR is lying, it's that you're either 1) misinterpreting the data you've taken in, 2) that you're biased (as we all are) and reporting what you saw incorrectly due to that bias, or 3) that your definition of a sucker punch is different than other's. Presenting your argument as you have (and judging by your biased posts and posting name), it's logically correct for most posters here to assume you're a troll who's lucky to have two brain cells to rub together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kidish 0 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 The argument isn't that your DVR is lying, it's that you're either 1) misinterpreting the data you've taken in, 2) that you're biased (as we all are) and reporting what you saw incorrectly due to that bias, or 3) that your definition of a sucker punch is different than other's. Presenting your argument as you have (and judging by your biased posts and posting name), it's logically correct for most posters here to assume you're a troll who's lucky to have two brain cells to rub together. Pretty much. Although I'd still say the DVR is lying. It's a ******* post-game scrum--this still happens in hockey, despite the rules and such. The elbow was s***. I personally don't see intent, but who cares what I see, I'm just some Leafs fan watching some really great hockey right now. Does it matter who started it? The teams were charged up, it just makes game seven in this series more awesome to anticipate. Considering this series of two past Cup winners is being vastly overshadowed by the Sid vs. Ovie matchup, it needs all the help it can get! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 There is no way you can compare the two elbows... that's like trying to compare apples and windshield Wipers ... Gold. I'm officially commandeering that for my own use Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted May 13, 2009 When this happened last night I was so pissed at our inability to fight back. Today, I'm not very concerned about what happened. Moreso I am just hating the vast majority of posters over on the Ducks forum. These people think the Wings started that scrum last night and are crying about it because we got beat up. Seriously, they ******* think we started it!!!!! Here's what I saw Getzlaf hooks Hossa, no big deal. Hossa, out of frustration puts a shoulder into Getzlaf, imo, this is also no big deal. Both players get their arms up. Getzlaf is tough so he's a bit more aggressive. Eventually he throws 2 big haymaking rights. IMO, that's a bit of an excessive escalation but I don't really have much of a problem with it. Meanwhile, if you watch behind all of this action you will see Datsyuk tie up Niedermayer. Nothing is going on there. They are simply hugging. No big deal. Somehow Niedermayer get turned around and Datsyuk still has him tied up from behind. Now I don't know how Neidermayer got turned around but if I had to guess, I would say he was just trying to get away from Datsyuk. If you read the Ducks' fans view, apparently Datsyuk was teeing off on Scott's head. Hmmm....right.....because that sounds just like Pavel Datsyuk. Especially considering nothing was going on between these two other than a hug. Of course then comes the infamous elbow. IMO, extremely excessive. It obviously caught Datsyuk unawares. Hell, he's not even looking in the direction the elbow comes from. He's looking towards the middle of the ice at the rest of the action. From the video its pretty clear Dats was just holding onto Niedermayer and he didn't like it and in his frustration in trying to get away he launched that elbow. Way excessive. As for the fight afterwards, I have no problem with it at all. Dats got up and took a swipe and they fought. No big deal. I will say I didn't like Todd Marchant grabbing ahold of Pavel. WTF was that necessary. When he grabs Pavel, Pavel's head is down, Niedermayer's head is up and Niedermayer is the one clearly throwing big punches. I guess Marchant thought Niedermayer was losing the fight? Marchant has no business getting into the middle of that and frankly, Lidstrom needed to pull his ass off. Not just hold him from behind. It didn't help at all. The one fight that did piss me off the most was Perry on Rafalski. Watch the video, Rafalski is skating towards the scrum with the obvious intent to grab ahold of somebody. Perry sees him, Rafalski is not paying any attention to Perry and right as he gets to the pile Perry graps him from the left and spins him around. Now Rafalski didn't expect that and I have no problem with it. Perry is just keeping another Wing from joining the scrum. The problem I have is, and the camera moves away, is what followed next to the point that Rafalski still has his gloves on and Perry is teeing off on him? WTF happened? Again, an overly excessive response from a Duck. And frankly, we all know Corey Perry is a spot picker. I guess when you can't beat up a 6-5 Jonathan Ericsson, the next best thing to do is beat up 5-9 Brian Rafalski. For the Ducks fans who think we started all this. I'm sorry, Putting a shoulder into a guy who is hooking you doesn't equate to drop all your gloves and start beating the tar out of a bunch of non fighters. And Duck fans wonder why they get a bad rap. And they wonder why the Flyers get a bad rap. How ******* hilarious. The Ducks had 82 goddamned fighting majors this year and have a bunch of very tough, very physical guys. I don't mind that at all. But when Ryan Getzlaf wants to fight Marian Hossa and Corey Perry beats up Brian Rafalski, you're going to have a bad rep because that's horses***. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kylee 727 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 There is no way you can compare the two elbows... that's like trying to compare apples and windshield Wipers ... how about this classy Ducks' fan rebuttal: Holmstrom was lying when he said that he didn't intend to throw an elbow @ Wisniewski! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rocket Queen 30 1 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Wow, that is just pathetically incorrect. Maybe you should watch your DVR again it starts with Getz hooking Hossa, then the two kind of shoulder each other. I guess a magic dragon in a Red Wings jersey came down and started throwing fireballs too? muaaaaaaaaahahahaha! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest GordieSid&Ted Report post Posted May 13, 2009 how about this classy Ducks' fan rebuttal: Holmstrom was lying when he said that he didn't intend to throw an elbow @ Wisniewski! I'm not Holmstrom so I won't pretend to know exactly what he was doing. The only thing I can say about the Holmstrom elbow vs the Niedermayer elbow is that with Holmstrom, there's at least the notion that it could have been accidental. Nobody can confirm whether he really knew Wiz was there or not or whether it was intentional or not. It's unclear. But that leaves the window open to say it could have been accidental. As for Niedermayer, the window and the door are shut, locked and boarded up. That was a vicious fecking elbow, thrown with malicious intent. Frankly, we're lucking Pavel has a visor and that it didn't catch him flush on the face. That's the kind of elbow, thrown with force that can crush an orbital bone and end your season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted May 13, 2009 Both teams are fighting hard. The Ducks are known for being chippy and dirty. So what? People getting upset about this are being far too knee-jerk. Pavel is most upset about Niedermayer blanketing him on defense than giving him an extra shot after the whistle. If he was scoring all over Nieds.. well.. obviously this doesn't happen. He's frustrated and pissed at himself. Let's hope for Game 7 he shows up and leaves Nieds jock in the rafters from those wonderful dekes he can do. He should know by now, however, that Nieds is playing the body and should think ahead. Btw, this was sure as hell not a "brawl". Maybe for Wings standards. There's a point where you just say- yeah it's a scrum after the whistle, boys will be boys. I get that- I'm not calling for Getzlaf or even Perry's head on a pike. Perry's move was a ***** move since he went after a guy who was just coming off an injury and has zero history of fighting... but he didn't injure Ralfaski as far as I know, and I don't see an intent to injure in his actions, just a ***** trying to fight an unwilling opponent who's not even healthy. But that elbow by Neidavacation is completely different- that's either something intended to injure or something thrown with complete reckless abandon and no thought to the consequences. Both those options are reprehensible and the fact remains that looking at that replay you can't really argue it doesn't at least warrant a review by the league. The scrum last night was pretty typical of NHL hockey and the emotions that boil over, even if it was a bit over the line in terms of what kind of players the Ducks went after. The elbow by Neidavacation was a gutless, chickens*** move. Period. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
