ECF Game #2 GDT

[NeverForgetMac25 483]

From watching the games last year, he suddenly disappeared in games following that particular game against Philadelphia. The Flyers made it a point to make things difficult for him and, whether it was that or something else, he just seemed slow everywhere he went on the ice. Obviously playing against a Red Wings defense that was shutting down the Penguins offense wouldn't make him look any faster or healthier (or less tired), but watching his play over the course of the playoffs formed the basis for thinking that something happened to him health-wise in the Eastern Conference Finals.

And a quick search on Google offered this less-than detailed article on Malkin's health: source

He may not have needed corrective surgery that tells everybody, "Yes, he was hurt all this time," but that doesn't mean he wasn't hurt. Based on what I saw in last year's playoffs, I don't think he was healthy by the time he was in the Cup Finals -- but then again, what hockey player is fully healthy at the end of a season?

Exactly. Every player gets banged up and has to play through injury once the playoffs begin, especially the SCF's. I don't doubt that Malkin had some bumps and bruises, but some want to claim that's the reason he wasn't performing, while others claim it was because the Wings' stifling defense made him struggle. The Wings team defense (especially last season) did that to everyone they faced.

Hmm...a *Pittsburgh* newspaper "explaining" Malkin's decline in play....gofigure. Show me one from a media outlet other than Pittsburgh.

[UKWING 8]

Fixed that one

Pens last year vs. this year...sure the record's not as good, but they had much easier matchups last year--Sens team that was falling apart, same Flyers team they played this year and a Rangers team that's pretty well out of their league anywhere past the first round. The Caps are head-and-shoulders above any of that.

Thanks to the guy that reminded me about the Richards hit on Malkin. I knew Malkin was off before they played us, I just couldn't place it. Hurt or not isn't even really the point there, they didn't have the benefit of his production either way, and they do right now.

In all seriousness though, thanks to those of you arguing with me, the confidence is contagious. And I was absolutely convinced we were going to blow the 3-0 lead against Dallas last year, I'm not exactly hard to throw into a panic.

IMO the ducks are not just the toughest matchup for the wings but also the best team they will face - i don't think any other team would have eliminated the ducks. remember they dumped the sharks out who are way better than any eastern team. yes i know they are perennial chokers but i think this year they were just unfortunate to run into the ducks and their smothering defence - it would have been interesting (and quite scary) to see what the sharks would have done if they had played the blues or jackets in the 1st round as they would have surely made short work of them and might have gotten on a roll.

anyway back on topic - there is no doubt that the pens have had tougher matchups this year than last but the caps and flyers are still pretty average teams and they struggled against both of them. furthermore, the ease with which they reached the finals last year meant that they were healthy and well-rested entering the SCF. this year they will be more fatigued and banged up - just look at the state of gonchar at the moment!!

crosby and malkin will be better than last year and guys like kunitz, fedotenko and guerin bring much needed experience so even though they no longer have hossa, their forward group will be stronger than last year. however, without whitney and with gonchar struggling, their D is a lot worse.

they certainly won't be easy to beat but i don't think they will be any tougher than last year either.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

So you guys have it all matched up already... uh, news flash -- series isn't over at 2-0 last I looked. Washington Capitals anyone?

Re: Malkin. Despite some of the misconceptions, he WAS hurt during that play against Philly. Unlike Crosby, Malkin was a big factor in last year's playoffs -- right until that breakway play on the PP. From that minute on he was ineffective. You didn't hear about it until afterwards because what team broadcasts its injuries anyway? We still don't know exactly the injury, but to say the least it hobbled him.

The idea the poster above has that "I don't think they will be any tougher than last year either" is as absurd as that "if it's Eastern Conference it's inferior hockey" snob garbage. Last year's squad was so wet behind the ears for the finals they should've played with towels around their heads. It took til Game 3 to get the deer-in-the-headlights look out of their eyes and start playing hockey. The defense I think was a bit better checking, but Crosby and Malkin weren't even CLOSE to playing at the dominating level they are now. Are you guys kidding me?

That said, I'm not penciling in the Pens just yet... though last night's bombardment of the "unbeatable" Ward may have taken away some of their heart. Still a pretty scrappy bunch. We'll see.

[xtrememachine1 795]

As impressive as the Penguins have been, they did give up 4 goals in this playoff game. The word from the hockey knowledgeable Pens fans is that they're worried about that and are saying that if they play Detroit like that, Detroit will murder them. True enough.

Defense wins championships and the Wings have by far the best defense left in these playoffs. And as impressive as the Pens have looked in the playoffs, who have they played?

Philly Flyers - They've OWNED that team for the last 3 years. No defense, lousy goaltender

Washington Capitals - They've owned them since they came into existence. No defense, rookie goalie.

Carolina Hurricanes - Played two OT filled 7 game series'. No defense, worn out goalie.

Logically, IF the Wings would play the Pens again, it SHOULD be no different than last year.

[BewareThePenguin 1]

As impressive as the Penguins have been, they did give up 4 goals in this playoff game. The word from the hockey knowledgeable Pens fans is that they're worried about that and are saying that if they play Detroit like that, Detroit will murder them. True enough.

Defense wins championships and the Wings have by far the best defense left in these playoffs. And as impressive as the Pens have looked in the playoffs, who have they played?

Philly Flyers - They've OWNED that team for the last 3 years. No defense, lousy goaltender

Washington Capitals - They've owned them since they came into existence. No defense, rookie goalie.

Carolina Hurricanes - Played two OT filled 7 game series'. No defense, worn out goalie.

Logically, IF the Wings would play the Pens again, it SHOULD be no different than last year.

And did the "knowledgeable" Wings fans freak out when Detroit gave up FIVE goals against the lowly Blue Jackets?

(Speaking of "who have they played"?) Did they all run around and scream "oh how will we EVER beat Anaheim if we give up 5 goals to Columbus?!?!"

As for the Pens' run, well...

Philly -- I won't argue with that one

Washington -- Only the number two seed in the playoffs -- goalie stood on his head -- few players in the Western Conference compare to Ovechkin

Carolina -- what, the Pens didn't just finish a grueling 7-game series themselves?

IF the two teams play again, it well might be Detroit winning again. But it won't be "no different" I promise you.

[chrisdetroit 189]

And did the "knowledgeable" Wings fans freak out when Detroit gave up FIVE goals against the lowly Blue Jackets?

(Speaking of "who have they played"?) Did they all run around and scream "oh how will we EVER beat Anaheim if we give up 5 goals to Columbus?!?!"

As for the Pens' run, well...

Philly -- I won't argue with that one

Washington -- Only the number two seed in the playoffs -- goalie stood on his head -- few players in the Western Conference compare to Ovechkin

Carolina -- what, the Pens didn't just finish a grueling 7-game series themselves?

IF the two teams play again, it well might be Detroit winning again. But it won't be "no different" I promise you.

Fleury has an .899 save percentage in the playoffs and a 2.93 GAA. How he played in 1 game is irrelevant.

Detroit is not going to lose to a goalie with that low a save percentage. Detroit averages 40.2 shots per game. That means on average, they will score (1-0.899) x 40.2 = 4.06 goals per game.

That kind of goaltending/defense is not going to cut it.

Ozzie has a .925 save % and a 2.04 GAA.

For the pens to knock off Detroit, Fleury has to play MUCH better in the final 4 to seven games than he has played in the last 15 AND Ozzie has to play MUCH worse.

Incidently Fleury had a .933 save percentage and a 1.97 GAA in last years playoffs and the Pens still got crushed by the Red Wings.

[reggiedunlop 0]

That's not true. First of all, there's know way of knowing that because it can't be proven. Second, Fleury and Ward are goaltenders that need to make saves to get into a rhythm. Osgood has shown he can make saves even if he doesn't see a shot for a period or two.

i believe that was his original point....... you just said he doesnt face any rubber :-)

[xtrememachine1 795]

And did the "knowledgeable" Wings fans freak out when Detroit gave up FIVE goals against the lowly Blue Jackets?

(Speaking of "who have they played"?) Did they all run around and scream "oh how will we EVER beat Anaheim if we give up 5 goals to Columbus?!?!"

As for the Pens' run, well...

Philly -- I won't argue with that one

Washington -- Only the number two seed in the playoffs -- goalie stood on his head -- few players in the Western Conference compare to Ovechkin

Carolina -- what, the Pens didn't just finish a grueling 7-game series themselves?

IF the two teams play again, it well might be Detroit winning again. But it won't be "no different" I promise you.

Yeah, they gave up 5 goals in one game, an elimination game. Before that Columbus had 2 goals in three games. So no, no panicking. But as a Pens fan, you should be worried that if you're giving up 4 goals to Carolina, what will Detroit do? A lot of the Caps games were high scoring too, so it wasn't like it was a fluke either.

Washington was a second seed because they play in the weakest division in the league. No, not many players can compare to Ovechkin in the West, but Ovechkin is the only difference between the Caps being a playoff team or a lottery pick team. Ohhh and that ONE guy pushed it to 7 games.

Yes, the Pens just played in a 7 game series too, but the Canes are coming off their second straight 7 game series and it was against the number one seed, not the pushover Caps.

[chrisdetroit 189]

Actually I think Khabby goaltending has been outstanding, especially in game one where he killed a couple of really good power plays.

Huh? 0.899 is outstanding? Ok maybe he had 1 good game but 0.899 is not good

[Guest Shoreline]

And did the "knowledgeable" Wings fans freak out when Detroit gave up FIVE goals against the lowly Blue Jackets?

(Speaking of "who have they played"?) Did they all run around and scream "oh how will we EVER beat Anaheim if we give up 5 goals to Columbus?!?!"

As for the Pens' run, well...

Philly -- I won't argue with that one

Washington -- Only the number two seed in the playoffs -- goalie stood on his head -- few players in the Western Conference compare to Ovechkin

Carolina -- what, the Pens didn't just finish a grueling 7-game series themselves?

IF the two teams play again, it well might be Detroit winning again. But it won't be "no different" I promise you.

One thing you'll get right off the bat is there's a lot of posters here who are bi-polar or exhibit the up-and-down attitude of one who is. They either freak out and declare this team's season over well too soon, or declare this team is going to win way too soon. Extremes = bad.

Edited May 22, 2009 by Shoreline

[RockyMountainWingGal 108]

Place Osgood in any of those team and his numbers will turn out brutal, it's the team in front of osgood thats good, osgood is just a good goalie... if you put fleury or ward in the detroit net he would get 3-4SO 1.5GAA etc....

Normally I might agree with you. I thought he was done due to his performance this regular season. However, he has been great in several PO games thus far. Esp in game 2 the Wings gave up 39 SOG - say what? Usually I would say that means Oz gave up 4-5 goals but he kept us in the game.

I'll come out and admit I thought Oz sucked and was done a few months ago, but after his performance (one bad game vs Columbus and he still outplayed the opp GT) this postseason, I feel I should give credit where credit is due....

[BewareThePenguin 1]

Yeah, they gave up 5 goals in one game, an elimination game. Before that Columbus had 2 goals in three games. So no, no panicking. But as a Pens fan, you should be worried that if you're giving up 4 goals to Carolina, what will Detroit do? A lot of the Caps games were high scoring too, so it wasn't like it was a fluke either.

Washington was a second seed because they play in the weakest division in the league. No, not many players can compare to Ovechkin in the West, but Ovechkin is the only difference between the Caps being a playoff team or a lottery pick team. Ohhh and that ONE guy pushed it to 7 games.

Yes, the Pens just played in a 7 game series too, but the Canes are coming off their second straight 7 game series and it was against the number one seed, not the pushover Caps.

You sure you were watching the same series? Washington's goalie is who pushed it to seven, not Ovechkin. He made some saves I still can't believe. Otherwise that series was over in 5.

"Pushover" Caps? That team that smoked your guys 4-2 last time they met? Those pushovers?

Washington's been a scoring machine all year. An easy draw they weren't.

You drew Columbus, THE pushover in the playoffs. Might want to think about that before you go off on somebody else's bracket. Just sayin'.

[GoWings1905 2,694]

Place Osgood in any of those team and his numbers will turn out brutal, it's the team in front of osgood thats good, osgood is just a good goalie... if you put fleury or ward in the detroit net he would get 3-4SO 1.5GAA etc....

Hypocrite. That's so typical of the people that never give Ozzie credit.

When the Red Wings win it's because they are a great team, when they lose it's because of Ozzie.

[C-TownWing 0]

You drew Columbus, THE pushover in the playoffs.

Montreal. Beginning and end of discussion on that point.

Flyers >>> BJs

Caps < Ducks

Canes << Hawks

Something like that.

[Doc Holiday 0]

You sure you were watching the same series? Washington's goalie is who pushed it to seven, not Ovechkin. He made some saves I still can't believe. Otherwise that series was over in 5.

"Pushover" Caps? That team that smoked your guys 4-2 last time they met? Those pushovers?

Regular season stats to prove a point? How did the Penguins play against Detroit the last time they met?

And Varlamov was weak in that series.

Washington's been a scoring machine all year. An easy draw they weren't.

A scoring machine with no defense.

You drew Columbus, THE pushover in the playoffs. Might want to think about that before you go off on somebody else's bracket. Just sayin'.

Two words: Anaheim Ducks.

[EuroTwin 240]

You drew Columbus, THE pushover in the playoffs. Might want to think about that before you go off on somebody else's bracket. Just sayin'.

St Louis was pretty god-awful too. I keep forgetting they were even in the playoffs.

[Guest Shoreline]

St Louis was pretty god-awful too. I keep forgetting they were even in the playoffs.

They did very well to make the playoffs -- hell, I incessantly predicted they wouldn't make it and they did -- but at least they didn't prove me wrong when I suggested they wouldn't make it past the first round.

[xtrememachine1 795]

You sure you were watching the same series? Washington's goalie is who pushed it to seven, not Ovechkin. He made some saves I still can't believe. Otherwise that series was over in 5.

"Pushover" Caps? That team that smoked your guys 4-2 last time they met? Those pushovers?

Washington's been a scoring machine all year. An easy draw they weren't.

You drew Columbus, THE pushover in the playoffs. Might want to think about that before you go off on somebody else's bracket. Just sayin'.

Yeah, I watched the same series. I watched a rookie goalie make every glove save an adventure and give up too many soft goals once he was finally broken. Considering Ovechkin was pretty much the caps only source of scoring, the Pens STILL couldn't shut him down and he scored 8 goals in 7 games. The Wings don't have an Ovechkin, but they have MANY good scorers, plus, unlike Ovie, they can play defense.

Yes, the pushover Caps. They're not a playoff ready team. I said that last year and I'm saying it again this year. When it comes down to it, they're a good regular season team, but they don't have the balls for the playoffs... yet.

As for "pushover" Columbus, that's what happens when you do well all season long, you get a high seed and face a team like the BJ's. Although, facing a tough goalie like Mason and a strong defensive team like Columbus isn't exactly a cake walk. The Wings made it look easy because they're like... good or something. I don't know.

Our second round opponent won the Cup two years ago and has a very tough defense and hot goalie to go along with it. Now we're playing a team that's just as good as the Pens were last year.

Tough young defensive team, tough experienced veteran team that won the Cup not that long ago and an up and coming powerhouse. Yeah, we REALLY lucked out huh? lol

[Resetti 44]

Exactly. Every player gets banged up and has to play through injury once the playoffs begin, especially the SCF's. I don't doubt that Malkin had some bumps and bruises, but some want to claim that's the reason he wasn't performing, while others claim it was because the Wings' stifling defense made him struggle. The Wings team defense (especially last season) did that to everyone they faced.

Hmm...a *Pittsburgh* newspaper "explaining" Malkin's decline in play....gofigure. Show me one from a media outlet other than Pittsburgh.

Look, my original statement was that I think Malkin was far from healthy before they made it out of the Eastern Conference Finals. From watching him play through the playoffs, he just seemed slower and less willing to engage physically after he was slammed by Mike Richards in Game 1. When he hit the wall courtesy of Richards, his productivity did too. You asked what my basis was for believing that was the result of health problems and I told you. I'm not going to research the Internet to find every media outlet that reported any Malkin injuries because it was an "I think" claim and it's irrelevant now anyway -- we're in 2009 and last year's playoffs are behind us. I just typed in a couple words into Google and Pittsburgh's newspaper was the first source that came up.

Now obviously the Red Wings defense made teams struggle. There's no denying they're great at limiting players. But Malkin being hurt and Malkin being played tightly by the Wings defense aren't mutually exclusive categories.