Nobody Can Beat the Wings at their Own Game

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I was just looking back on how the only teams that have had success against us in the last decade all followed the same formula. They played a tight checking, defensive style of hockey, often resorted to the trap, and had their goalie stand on his head and win the series for them.

The Pens just aren't going to do that. I don't see them playing with a defense first mentality, and I don't see Crosby or Malkin thinking defense first. They're going to try to do what they tried doing last year and what Chicago tried doing in the last series, which is to take the Wings head on and play up and down hockey. In other words, they're going to fail miserably just like they did before.

What Anaheim tried to do is exactly how to beat the Wings and they almost did again this year. I don't see the Pens as the team that has that same defensive commitment and strategy.

Even without Datsyuk, you can't beat the Wings by matching them skill for skill. The Pens should know that after what happened last year.

[Theophany 110]

I've been saying this for a while as well. The Pens, Hawks, etc try to model themselves after us, and they don't have our depth, and thus when they play us, they fail.

[Cern 0]

BUT BUT BUT WE HAVE SO MANY SOFT EUROS ON OUR TEAM D:

[Firehawk 305]

I agree. Nobody has the same or more talent than the REd Wings do in the league right now. The NHL can try to blow Pitt up as much as possible to make it seem that way, but they are just not as complete of a team.

The league already tried to blow Chicago up like this, and Chicago did at first try to play Detroit skill for skill and got schooled. Then they turned to goonery (everyone should know by now only Ana can get away with it) and it cost them game 4.

Pitt has some good talent with Crosby and Malkin, but those guys are not complete players yet in their careers. They are not as solid defensively as our top scorers. I'm sorry, I just don't know how people can say any team in this league matches up skill for skill with Detroit.

I don't even think Anaheim could match us skill for skill and that is why they resorted to goonery tactics.

It's kind of laughable, listening to Pat Capudo this afternoon on the radio. He thinks ON PAPER this series is going 7. In my opinion, ON PAPER this series goes 5. Throw in reality of the NHL and refereeing, and this series probably goes longer.

Edited May 30, 2009 by Firehawk

[Guest mindfly]

I love how you people are thinking but how come there have been atleast 15threads basically all about how penguins can't beat wings because of this and that... is it some kind of defense speech or what?

A bit cheezy or self-righteous for that matter?

[Echolalia 2,961]

If I was the coach of a team thats about to face the Wings, I would look at all seven games of the Wings vs Ducks series and adapt their style. You may recall, actually, that I was a bit worried that Quennville would have the smarts to at least see what the Ducks did that made it so difficult for us to beat them. In any event, even if the Pens adapted the Ducks' defense-first style flawlessly, they don't have the tools to apply it as effectively as the Ducks or the Wings. The Pens' defense is mediocre at best, and while they are a relatively deep team, they still rely too heavily on Crosby and Malkin, who, in my opinion, aren't playoff calibre players the way Getzlaf and Perry were when together, but who knows, they may have adapted since last year.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

I love how you people are thinking but how come there have been atleast 15threads basically all about how penguins can't beat wings because of this and that... is it some kind of defense speech or what?

A bit cheezy or self-righteous for that matter?

This is the best of those threads, though.

Yeah, we're the most skilled team, but even so we've lost in the playoffs before to much less skilled teams. However, as I pointed out in my original post, none of those teams that beat us tried to do it by taking us head on. They were all more defensively disciplined teams.

The Pens don't know any other way to play other than a full fledged offensive attacking style. That style has just never worked against us and the Pens should know that by now.

[Firehawk 305]

I love how you people are thinking but how come there have been atleast 15threads basically all about how penguins can't beat wings because of this and that... is it some kind of defense speech or what?

A bit cheezy or self-righteous for that matter?

It's fact my friend. I don't get why people have such a hard time with this. The Wings are the top dog on the block, have been for years and years. The wings are 4-0 in their last 4 SCF appearances. Let's throw all the crap about which team is better or worse for a moment. Let's assume both teams got slightly better than last year. Last year's SCF wasn't really even that close. It was 30 seconds away from a 5 game sweep lol.

[Firehawk 305]

I was just looking at hte plus/minus...How does Malkin have 28 points and he's only a +3?

[betterREDthandead 58]

HOWEVA. Crosby and Malkin are the two most dynamic scorers in the matchup. Pittsburgh may not have the depth of talent, but sometimes the best of the best is what determines the series.

This has all the makings of a seven-gamer.

[GMRwings1983 8,804]

HOWEVA. Crosby and Malkin are the two most dynamic scorers in the matchup. Pittsburgh may not have the depth of talent, but sometimes the best of the best is what determines the series.

This has all the makings of a seven-gamer.

I wasn't talking about depth as much as I was talking about strategy.

The strategy the Pens play has not been shown to work against the Wings.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I was just looking at hte plus/minus...How does Malkin have 28 points and he's only a +3?

Part defense or lack thereof, part the fact that he has more PPP than anyone in the league right now.

[Firehawk 305]

HOWEVA. Crosby and Malkin are the two most dynamic scorers in the matchup. Pittsburgh may not have the depth of talent, but sometimes the best of the best is what determines the series.

This has all the makings of a seven-gamer.

No it doesn't. The wings' defense shuts down the 'top scorers' all the time.

I think people were saying alot of the same crap last year that they are this year. Pit is going to have to prove it to me before I buy it.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

The best way to beat Detroit as we've seen in the past, is to grind on them. Cycle pucks, forecheck, hit everything, make it tough to get to open areas. Trying to run and gun us well get you finished quick as Chicago learned.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I wasn't talking about depth as much as I was talking about strategy.

The strategy the Pens play has not been shown to work against the Wings.

That's cause nobody else has anywhere near the talent of either the Wings or the Pens. It damn near worked against us last year in Games 3-6 - the difference in the series was the Pens' total lack of preparedness for the first two.

Don't take this as pessimism, just a cautionary tale. LGWers occasionally let their hatred of Crosby color their views of him as a player. He really is that good.

[titanium2 867]

No it doesn't. The wings' defense shuts down the 'top scorers' all the time.

I think people were saying alot of the same crap last year that they are this year. Pit is going to have to prove it to me before I buy it.

Not if your name is Ryan Getzlaf. Here's hoping that Sid and Geno don't have the same effect that he did.

[RoninJai 5]

BUT BUT BUT WE HAVE SO MANY SOFT EUROS ON OUR TEAM D:

Ah, the great misconception. Who, exactly, ARE the soft Euros on the Wings that everyone keeps talking about? Hossa? Pretty sure I've seen him throw down a time or two. Kronwall? A guy named Havlat might take umbrage with that. Oh...wait...I got it....Lidstrom right? Is he the soft one? I'd almost be worried about that label hanging around his neck, but the other one that says "Greatest defensemen ever" covers it up pretty well.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I think people were saying alot of the same crap last year that they are this year. Pit is going to have to prove it to me before I buy it.

In Games 3 through 6 last year, both teams had 10 goals for and 10 against, and all the games were 1-goal games. One went to OT thanks to a goal in the final seconds and the next one almost did the exact same thing. It'd be very, very hard to point out a closer four-game stretch in ANY playoff series.

What won us the series was Pittsburgh's total lack of preparedness. We don't have that advantage this time. Now they have a coach they like, and there are storylines to this series that didn't exist last year - who knows what kind of effect those might have? Huge mistake IMO to think we can just brush them aside like we did the Hawks. Huge mistake.

[RoninJai 5]

Not if your name is Ryan Getzlaf. Here's hoping that Sid and Geno don't have the same effect that he did.

Sid and Geno are NO Ryan Getzlaf. Getz would make those two cry just by looking at 'em.

I would LOVE to see the Pens have to play the Ducks on a regular basis.

[titanium2 867]

Ah, the great misconception. Who, exactly, ARE the soft Euros on the Wings that everyone keeps talking about? Hossa? Pretty sure I've seen him throw down a time or two. Kronwall? A guy named Havlat might take umbrage with that. Oh...wait...I got it....Lidstrom right? Is he the soft one? I'd almost be worried about that label hanging around his neck, but the other one that says "Greatest defensemen ever" covers it up pretty well.

To be fair, when it comes to backing up your s*** talking during scrums, Franzen is one of the softest I've seen in a while. Sammy is too but not quite as much.

[Firehawk 305]

In Games 3 through 6 last year, both teams had 10 goals for and 10 against, and all the games were 1-goal games. One went to OT thanks to a goal in the final seconds and the next one almost did the exact same thing. It'd be very, very hard to point out a closer four-game stretch in ANY playoff series.

What won us the series was Pittsburgh's total lack of preparedness. We don't have that advantage this time. Now they have a coach they like, and there are storylines to this series that didn't exist last year - who knows what kind of effect those might have? Huge mistake IMO to think we can just brush them aside like we did the Hawks. Huge mistake.

I think you can make the case they weren't prepared for the first 2 games, but after that you can't. And again, the next 4 that your'e talking about should have gone 3 to the wings, 1 to Pit, but of course the Refs decided to screw us in game 5.

Pit has been playing eastern talent for 1 1/2 months. Theyr'e about to step in against the world champs that play in a conference that's in a whole level above theirs. You don't think it's going to take a game to adjust to that, no matter how much you prepare?

I mean, choosing to ignore the 2 games that you did in your argument is pretty silly. After all, we went up 2-0 in a series. That's 2 points out of 4 needed.

[Outsider 42]

I honestly think the Wings faced, and defeated, the toughest competition in this Post Season. Ask yourselves this:

Name ONE Team the Penguins have bested this Post Season who would have even qualified for the Play Offs in the Western Conference.

Or, even more telling....

Name ONE Team the Penguins have bested this Post Season who wouldn't have been CRUSHED by the Ducks.

[titanium2 867]

"Being engaged" as Babs likes to put it has been a big problem the whole year. But I have a hard time believing that we won't see the Wings at their absolute best. This series is for the Stanley Cup itself. Being engaged mentally should not be a problem at all.

[betterREDthandead 58]

I think you can make the case they weren't prepared for the first 2 games, but after that you can't. And again, the next 4 that your'e talking about should have gone 3 to the wings, 1 to Pit, but of course the Refs decided to screw us in game 5.

Pit has been playing eastern talent for 1 1/2 months. Theyr'e about to step in against the world champs that play in a conference that's in a whole level above theirs. You don't think it's going to take a game to adjust to that, no matter how much you prepare?

I mean, choosing to ignore the 2 games that you did in your argument is pretty silly. After all, we went up 2-0 in a series. That's 2 points out of 4 needed.

That's what I mean. Once they got over the shock of actually being in the Cup Finals, they played us even.

I don't know how I ignored the two games. I specifically pointed them out, and that we're not getting those two games this year. We got a 2-0 boost last year and rode it to the Cup. That's not going to happen this year.

And if you brush aside the refs screwjobbing us last year and assume it won't also happen this year, I have to wonder how long you've been a Wings fan

[betterREDthandead 58]

Name ONE Team the Penguins have bested this Post Season who wouldn't have been CRUSHED by the Ducks.

Every single team the Pens beat in the playoffs this year, beat the Ducks in the regular season. So did the Pens. Boston beat 'em 6-0.