Marian Hossa, merged

[Guest Shoreline]

Everything in the way of facts I've quoted are FOR THE PLAYOFFS..........are you drunk or something? Babs stuck with Ozzie because he was the best option (and one I agreed with)........just as when he was released in 2001, they thought Ozzie was not the best option. I use facts, you use the emotion of your opinions. You lose.

Career -- 91.6 save %, 2.09GAA

Any reason why you're selectively taking his "statistically" worse playoff year to prove a point?

The previous playoff year (2008): 93.0 save %, 1.55 GAA.

Inform me as to what one playoff year with the Blues (who were a bad team) would matter if you were not being a nitpicking douchehat desperately trying to defend your off-the-wall assertions regarding Osgood?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Shoreline

[Outsider 42]

I've been nothing but objective. I don't like to bash players of the team I support, but since Ozzie wasnt a wing at the time, I dont feel as bad about it.

Face it, soonboomer......

Not that you'll have the INTEGRITY to ADMIT IT, but.......

You didn't even BOTHER TO WATCH a SINGLE GAME that Osgood played, Regular Season OR Play Offs, during the time when he was "the enemy".

And THAT is how you can sit here and post meaningless stats to attempt to support your pointless point that Osgood didn't "step it up" in those years away from home.

Osgood was THE MAJOR REASON why ANY of the those Teams he led to the PO's even MADE it there. At all.

Expecting him to carry them further than he did? Ridiculous! Utterly ridiculous.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Outsider

[soonboomer 31]

Career -- 91.6 save %, 2.09GAA

Any reason why you're selectively taking his "statistically" worse playoff year to prove a point?

The previous playoff year (2008): 93.0 save %, 1.55 GAA.

Inform me as to what one playoff year with the Blues (who were a bad team) would matter if you were not being a nitpicking douchehat desperately trying to defend your off-the-wall assertions regarding Osgood?

To say that something "always" happens, that means every time. Ozzie has not "always" stepped up for the playoffs.....at times he has been average at best...........so your assertion that he "always has" is factually flawed. ONCE AGAIN, YOU'RE WRONG.....GO HAVE ANOTHER DRINK.

[Outsider 42]

To say that something "always" happens, that means every time. Ozzie has not "always" stepped up for the playoffs.....at times he has been average at best...........so your assertion that he "always has" is factually flawed. ONCE AGAIN, YOU'RE WRONG.....GO HAVE ANOTHER DRINK.

Not an accurate assessment, soonboomer.

You're obviously one of those stats junkies.

Yes.....Osgood ALWAYS STEPS IT UP in the Post Season. Always. That's 100% of the time.

Where YOU make the mistake is to assume that if he "steps it up" it will lead to Victory.

Here's your lesson for the day.....

Osgood, despite the "stats", the "numbers", or anything ELSE you want to cite......

Played MUCH BETTER this Post Season than he did last Post Season.

He was just plain BETTER this year. He "stepped it up" from his performance last PO's.

HOWEVER....

His "stats" weren't as good. His "numbers" weren't as good.

And in the end....???

No matter HOW MUCH he "stepped it up", it wasn't ENOUGH when the TEAM didn't match his effort.

This year he was the BEST Wing on the ice. And they lost, anyway.

Last year? He was 2nd best, and Won the Cup.

It takes more than ONE Player, no matter HOW MUCH they "step it up".

Choose another sport. You obviously don't "get" this one.

Either that, or you simply hate Chris Osgood.

[soonboomer 31]

Face it, soonboomer......

Not that you'll have the INTEGRITY to ADMIT IT, but.......

You didn't even BOTHER TO WATCH a SINGLE GAME that Osgood played, Regular Season OR Play Offs, during the time when he was "the enemy".

And THAT is how you can sit here and post meaningless stats to attempt to support your pointless point that Osgood didn't "step it up" in those years away from home.

Osgood was THE MAJOR REASON why ANY of the those Teams he led to the PO's even MADE it there. At all.

Expecting him to carry them further than he did? Ridiculous! Utterly ridiculous.

I've had the hockey package on direct tv for years........ watched tons of games when Ozzie wasn't a wing, although a lot more when he was with the blues.

[Outsider 42]

I've had the hockey package on direct tv for years........ watched tons of games when Ozzie wasn't a wing, although a lot more when he was with the blues.

I'm calling BS, sb. Because there is NO WAY you can possibly have watched his tenure with the Blues and not recognize the fact that he was the ONLY REASON they made the Play Offs during his only full Season there.

There's just NO WAY.

What do you consider "a ton"?

Oh....Let me guess.....

You watched ALL the Games where the Blues played the Wings? Right?

Thought so.

Again....

Integrity, sb. Integrity.

[soonboomer 31]

Not an accurate assessment, soonboomer.

You're obviously one of those stats junkies.

Yes.....Osgood ALWAYS STEPS IT UP in the Post Season. Always. That's 100% of the time.

Where YOU make the mistake is to assume that if he "steps it up" it will lead to Victory.

Here's your lesson for the day.....

Osgood, despite the "stats", the "numbers", or anything ELSE you want to cite......

Played MUCH BETTER this Post Season than he did last Post Season.

He was just plain BETTER this year. He "stepped it up" from his performance last PO's.

Don't hate Ozzie at all.....and, as I said earlier, if you think an .890 save percentage under any circumstances is stepping up, then I beg to differ. As for him being the best player in the 01 playoffs, I still have the image of Deadmarsh burying the juicy rebound in OT of game 6 to eliminate the wings. Maybe he was the best player that series, maybe not.........the numbers dont back it up........and management apparently didnt think so either.

HOWEVER....

His "stats" weren't as good. His "numbers" weren't as good.

And in the end....???

No matter HOW MUCH he "stepped it up", it wasn't ENOUGH when the TEAM didn't match his effort.

This year he was the BEST Wing on the ice. And they lost, anyway.

Last year? He was 2nd best, and Won the Cup.

It takes more than ONE Player, no matter HOW MUCH they "step it up".

Choose another sport. You obviously don't "get" this one.

Either that, or you simply hate Chris Osgood.

[gcom007 1,465]

Not an accurate assessment, soonboomer.

You're obviously one of those stats junkies.

Yes.....Osgood ALWAYS STEPS IT UP in the Post Season. Always. That's 100% of the time.

Where YOU make the mistake is to assume that if he "steps it up" it will lead to Victory.

Here's your lesson for the day.....

Osgood, despite the "stats", the "numbers", or anything ELSE you want to cite......

Played MUCH BETTER this Post Season than he did last Post Season.

He was just plain BETTER this year. He "stepped it up" from his performance last PO's.

HOWEVER....

His "stats" weren't as good. His "numbers" weren't as good.

And in the end....???

No matter HOW MUCH he "stepped it up", it wasn't ENOUGH when the TEAM didn't match his effort.

This year he was the BEST Wing on the ice. And they lost, anyway.

Last year? He was 2nd best, and Won the Cup.

It takes more than ONE Player, no matter HOW MUCH they "step it up".

Choose another sport. You obviously don't "get" this one.

Either that, or you simply hate Chris Osgood.

This is correct.

[gcom007 1,465]

Well....

Perhaps YOU would choose #2, "for sure". But Hossa certainly wouldn't. He'll take #1. How do we know?

Because he's already done so. That's PRECISELY what he did when he LEFT the Pens in order to come "Win the Cup" with the already stacked Detroit Red Wings.

Fail. Epic Fail.

Except Hossa wanted to come to Detroit all along. Before he was traded to Pittsburgh, they were working out an extension with Holland should they be able to complete a trade but the Thrashers wanted too much for Holland to bite.

[Guest Shoreline]

To say that something "always" happens, that means every time. Ozzie has not "always" stepped up for the playoffs.....at times he has been average at best...........so your assertion that he "always has" is factually flawed. ONCE AGAIN, YOU'RE WRONG.....GO HAVE ANOTHER DRINK.

Boy, whatever happened to your facts? This "always" BS best suits your style of debate which is stupid, but how about we stick to the gameplan --- you can explain why pointing out the Blues "statistical" anomaly (and note how you're ONLY pointing out the stats and not Osgood's actual performance) would predicate how he does like 5 years later, even though he's following the upcoming playoffs (at the time) with a previously career-best playoff year, by the very same stats you **** to? You know what that's called? Cherrypicking. You wouldn't have to do that if your argument had any merit to it whatsoever.

You also wouldn't need to suggest to me how long you've been a fan OR that "I'm wrong" if you could provide the proof as to how. It's obvious as day you don't know what you're talking about and you just made the common mistake of jumping ship for no good reason at all.

[soonboomer 31]

I'm calling BS, sb. Because there is NO WAY you can possibly have watched his tenure with the Blues and not recognize the fact that he was the ONLY REASON they made the Play Offs during his only full Season there.

There's just NO WAY.

What do you consider "a ton"?

Oh....Let me guess.....

You watched ALL the Games where the Blues played the Wings? Right?

Thought so.

Again....

Integrity, sb. Integrity.

I thought we were talking playoffs, not regular season. (and I watched as much playoff hockey as anyone over the years). The numbers don't lie, so I guess we'll just have to disagree. You say Ozzie has been good or great in every playoff season he's had, I say he's been average at best in several of those years. I guess you dont have the same image of Deadmarsch burying that juicy rebound in OT to eliminate the Wings in the 01 playoffs as I do. You say he was the best player in the playoffs for the wings that year.........I disagree and the facts don't support you..........wings management must not agree with you either as I hardly think he would have been released if that were the case.

[Outsider 42]

Except Hossa wanted to come to Detroit all along. Before he was traded to Pittsburgh, they were working out an extension with Holland should they be able to complete a trade but the Thrashers wanted too much for Holland to bite.

Well.....

Hossa's young. And he's talented.

How motivated is he?

He couldn't overcome the pressure of facing his "former", (of a few months), Teammates for the ultimate prize, even after HIS Team went up 2-0, with Home Ice, in the Finals.

I didn't notice any of the Pens having any problem putting HOSSA in his place in that pressure packed situation.

So....how badly does he want to stay?

Hmmmm?

How MUCH does he want the Cup?

He ostensibly left tens of millions on the table for a shot at it this year....(although I don't buy that.....had he shown up and helped CONTRIBUTE to a Cup Victory, he'd have gotten every penny back.....probably more.....).

How much does he want? What kinda numbers we talkin' about here?

Because I'll tell you what.....

With Lids pushing 40, and the OBVIOUS need to shore up the Defense for the FUTURE.....

$7m+ is a LOT to spend on a 40 goal scorer who turns into a wallflower in the Post Season.

[MidMichSteve 1,115]

Oops sorry, thought this was a Hossa thread.

[soonboomer 31]

Boy, whatever happened to your facts? This "always" BS best suits your style of debate which is stupid, but how about we stick to the gameplan --- you can explain why pointing out the Blues "statistical" anomaly (and note how you're ONLY pointing out the stats and not Osgood's actual performance) would predicate how he does like 5 years later, even though he's following the upcoming playoffs (at the time) with a previously career-best playoff year, by the very same stats you **** to? You know what that's called? Cherrypicking. You wouldn't have to do that if your argument had any merit to it whatsoever.

You also wouldn't need to suggest to me how long you've been a fan OR that "I'm wrong" if you could provide the proof as to how. It's obvious as day you don't know what you're talking about and you just made the common mistake of jumping ship for no good reason at all.

Who's jumping ship? I'm not changing teams, and I fully support all the players on the Wings. Ive just cited 4 playoff seasons where anyone but a nuthugger could see that Ozzie was just an average goaltender. Is 4 years an anomaly? I hardly think so, If you choose to ignore the numbers, that's up to you. But doing so weakens any argument you think you might have.

[Outsider 42]

I thought we were talking playoffs, not regular season. (and I watched as much playoff hockey as anyone over the years). The numbers don't lie, so I guess we'll just have to disagree. You say Ozzie has been good or great in every playoff season he's had, I say he's been average at best in several of those years. I guess you dont have the same image of Deadmarsch burying that juicy rebound in OT to eliminate the Wings in the 01 playoffs as I do. You say he was the best player in the playoffs for the wings that year.........I disagree and the facts don't support you..........wings management must not agree with you either as I hardly think he would have been released if that were the case.

You're a hater, sb. Pure and simple.

You see only what you want to see. And what YOU want to see is Deader burying that rebound. What you FAIL to see is the play leading to that rebound, the save made on the initial shot, and the fact that, (at that point), there were far too many spectators in Red and White on the ice, and only ONE guy who showed up to oppose them.

"Numbers" lie all the time, soonboomer.

A much wiser, more learned man than I, and DEFINITELY a much wiser and more learned man than yourself, was famously quoted as saying:

"There are lies, DAMNED lies, and STATISTICS".

NUMBERS LIE ALL THE TIME.

Case in point?

Chris Osgood's "numbers" from THIS Post Season vs LAST Post Season.

Refute it.

And for the record......

It was Ken Holland who stated that had Hasek not "fallen into our lap", they NEVER would have replaced Osgood.

And it was Scotty Bowman who stated that if the Wings had "ANY idea" that Hasek would retire after one year, they "NEVER would have let Osgood go".

You keep hating, though.....

His TEAMMATES, his COACH, and the GM who scouted him ALL know better than you ever will.

So you go 'head and sit there in front of your monitor and cast aspersions.

The guy you obviously find so deficient has stood the test of time, and against far fiercer opponents than you will ever prove to be.

[Outsider 42]

Who's jumping ship? I'm not changing teams, and I fully support all the players on the Wings. Ive just cited 4 playoff seasons where anyone but a nuthugger could see that Ozzie was just an average goaltender. Is 4 years an anomaly? I hardly think so, If you choose to ignore the numbers, that's up to you. But doing so weakens any argument you think you might have.

You're citing 4 years with BAD TEAMS, out of a 16 year NHL career as proof of mediocrity.

Roberto Luongo has been in this League for 9 years.

He's brought his Team to the PO's twice.

[Guest Shoreline]

Who's jumping ship? I'm not changing teams, and I fully support all the players on the Wings. Ive just cited 4 playoff seasons where anyone but a nuthugger could see that Ozzie was just an average goaltender. Is 4 years an anomaly? I hardly think so, If you choose to ignore the numbers, that's up to you. But doing so weakens any argument you think you might have.

Old man on a tangent..

Jumping ship from the team? No. From Osgood, who this team, coach, GM, etc. all support. If the team went to Conklin, I support Conklin. You, on the other hand, s*** on Osgood and then s*** on the people who support him.. realistically, at that. For this, you are stupid.

But since the fun of this argument is more centered around your subjective use of career statistics, let's focus on your stupid, subjective use of them. Objectivity does not have an inherent bias, and you are a piss poor representation of objectively looking at stats. Osgood has 13 career playoff seasons, since we're talking about him in the NHL. You are selectively picking 4 seasons, and seasons he didn't even play for the Red Wings, one of them not even counting toward that 13, because he didn't play at all, to focus your hilarity around. These teams also were eliminated in the first round, yet surprisingly you choose not to include any of the times the Red Wings were eliminated in the first round and he was goalie. Wonder why that is? You also chose not to include any of the times he won a Stanley Cup. Wonder why that is? Only one time has Chris Osgood been under 90 save % for the playoffs. One time, and that was from a team that couldn't even score goals worth a s***. His playoff GAA has never been over 3.0. Even other people like you who **** over stats would call that consistency. Maybe you can explain why you selectively chose those four seasons (minus one for not playing in one of those playoffs, and the other three being decent playoff seasons) and decided to leave off his entire career. Maybe you can also explain why you refused to look at the previous season's playoff performance, which he ended up mirroring these playoffs as predicted.

I'm sure by now everyone knows how far you're reaching to try and justify your completely moronic statements. Let's see some more.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Shoreline

[soonboomer 31]

You're a hater, sb. Pure and simple.

You see only what you want to see. And what YOU want to see is Deader burying that rebound. What you FAIL to see is the play leading to that rebound, the save made on the initial shot, and the fact that, (at that point), there were far too many spectators in Red and White on the ice, and only ONE guy who showed up to oppose them.

"Numbers" lie all the time, soonboomer.

A much wiser, more learned man than I, and DEFINITELY a much wiser and more learned man than yourself, was famously quoted as saying:

"There are lies, DAMNED lies, and STATISTICS".

NUMBERS LIE ALL THE TIME.

Case in point?

Chris Osgood's "numbers" from THIS Post Season vs LAST Post Season.

Refute it.

And for the record......

It was Ken Holland who stated that had Hasek not "fallen into our lap", they NEVER would have replaced Osgood.

And it was Scotty Bowman who stated that if the Wings had "ANY idea" that Hasek would retire after one year, they "NEVER would have let Osgood go".

You keep hating, though.....

His TEAMMATES, his COACH, and the GM who scouted him ALL know better than you ever will.

So you go 'head and sit there in front of your monitor and cast aspersions.

The guy you obviously find so deficient has stood the test of time, and against far fiercer opponents than you will ever prove to be.

Let me see, where do I start? The Deadmarsch play.....yea, great initial save I believe it was on Stumpl.........but a horrible rebound. Not disputing that Ozzie had a steller playoffs this year, but I won't concede that they were any better than last season. You spout off all these assertions about what Holland and Bowman said, but the fact of the matter is that, according to you, the Wings released their "playoff MVP" after the 2001 season. If he was truly that good, I don't think it would have happened. And, I've never said that I found Ozzie deficient....in fact he's been stellar when it counts since his return to the wings. My original post was that, before the playoffs, that of the offense, defense and goaltending, the weakest link of the three heading into the playoffs was goaltending. Thats not hating, and its not saying that we had poor goaltending........it's just saying that I thought we had superior offense and defense and that I thought our goaltending was just a notch below. You guys saying that you "knew" that Ozzie would step up because he always has, that just isn't true. I guess you could have based that on the fact that he had such a stellar playoff season in 2008, but the same could have been said about Hossa this year. And, unfortunately, we all know how that turned out. Does that make me a hater?

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

I've had the hockey package on direct tv for years........ watched tons of games when Ozzie wasn't a wing, although a lot more when he was with the blues.

If that isn't the "mine is bigger than yours" statement of this thread I don't know what is....

I think it's funny your stupidity is being called out by several more respected posters from LGW. Give it a rest already Osgood hater.

[Guest Shoreline]

Let me see, where do I start? The Deadmarsch play.....yea, great initial save I believe it was on Stumpl.........but a horrible rebound. Not disputing that Ozzie had a steller playoffs this year, but I won't concede that they were any better than last season. You spout off all these assertions about what Holland and Bowman said, but the fact of the matter is that, according to you, the Wings released their "playoff MVP" after the 2001 season. If he was truly that good, I don't think it would have happened. And, I've never said that I found Ozzie deficient....in fact he's been stellar when it counts since his return to the wings.

Then why the f*** did he ever return to the Wings? And btw, you're backpedaling again..

My original post was that, before the playoffs, that of the offense, defense and goaltending, the weakest link of the three heading into the playoffs was goaltending. Thats not hating, and its not saying that we had poor goaltending........it's just saying that I thought we had superior offense and defense and that I thought our goaltending was just a notch below.

Actually it was defense, which most people told you, you were just too busy bashing Osgood and insulting members who supported him.

You guys saying that you "knew" that Ozzie would step up because he always has, that just isn't true. I guess you could have based that on the fact that he had such a stellar playoff season in 2008, but the same could have been said about Hossa this year. And, unfortunately, we all know how that turned out. Does that make me a hater?

Actually, it was based on his entire career, but the fact that he HAD that playoff performance the season before was absolutely a better rationale than selectively picking 4 seasons, 5+ years ago, as you just did now in your fail of a self-proclaimed "objective" argument.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Shoreline

[soonboomer 31]

Old man on a tangent..

Jumping ship from the team? No. From Osgood, who this team, coach, GM, etc. all support. If the team went to Conklin, I support Conklin. You, on the other hand, s*** on Osgood and then s*** on the people who support him.. realistically, at that. For this, you are stupid.

But since the fun of this argument is more centered around your subjective use of career statistics, let's focus on your stupid, subjective use of them. Objectivity does not have an inherent bias, and you are a piss poor representation of objectively looking at stats. Osgood has 13 career playoff seasons, since we're talking about him in the NHL. You are selectively picking 4 seasons, and seasons he didn't even play for the Red Wings, one of them not even counting toward that 13, because he didn't play at all, to focus your hilarity around. These teams also were eliminated in the first round, yet surprisingly you choose not to include any of the times the Red Wings were eliminated in the first round and he was goalie. Wonder why that is? You also chose not to include any of the times he won a Stanley Cup. Wonder why that is? Only one time has Chris Osgood been under 90 save % for the playoffs. One time, and that was from a team that couldn't even score goals worth a s***. His playoff GAA has never been over 3.0. Even other people like you who **** over stats would call that consistency. Maybe you can explain why you selectively chose those four seasons (minus one for not playing in one of those playoffs, and the other three being decent playoff seasons) and decided to leave off his entire career. Maybe you can also explain why you refused to look at the previous season's playoff performance, which he ended up mirroring these playoffs as predicted.

I'm sure by now everyone knows how far you're reaching to try and justify your completely moronic statements. Let's see some more.

Speaking of moronic statements, you're certainly full of them. This all comes down to your statement about knowing the outcome of a future event (you're a psychic?), based on something you dreamed had always happened in the past. I'd say that 4 seasons out of 13 deflects any validity of the word "always". I never said Ozzie was a bad goaltender, never said Conklin should be playing ahead of him, and never even considered the idiotic posts of those who wanted to trade for a new netminder at the trade deadline. Like I said before, the wings gave up on Ozzie in 2001 to get what they thought to be a better option. After Hasek left, instead of trying to reacquire Ozzie, they chose to go with Cujo. And after that experiement, once again instead of trying to reacquire Ozzie, management thought that Legace was the answer. Looks like I'm not the only one who thought that Ozzie has at times been average in his playoff career.

[soonboomer 31]

Then why the f*** did he ever return to the Wings? And btw, you're backpedaling again..

Actually it was defense, which most people told you, you were just too busy bashing Osgood and insulting members who supported him.

Actually, it was based on his entire career, but the fact that he HAD that playoff performance the season before was absolutely a better rationale than selectively picking 4 seasons, 5+ years ago, as you just did now in your fail of a self-proclaimed "objective" argument.

I call bulls*** on this. And since 9 times out of 13 is always to you, that fact alone makes you look like an idiot.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

Speaking of moronic statements, you're certainly full of them. This all comes down to your statement about knowing the outcome of a future event (you're a psychic?), based on something you dreamed had always happened in the past. I'd say that 4 seasons out of 13 deflects any validity of the word "always". I never said Ozzie was a bad goaltender, never said Conklin should be playing ahead of him, and never even considered the idiotic posts of those who wanted to trade for a new netminder at the trade deadline. Like I said before, the wings gave up on Ozzie in 2001 to get what they thought to be a better option. After Hasek left, instead of trying to reacquire Ozzie, they chose to go with Cujo. And after that experiement, once again instead of trying to reacquire Ozzie, management thought that Legace was the answer. Looks like I'm not the only one who thought that Ozzie has at times been average in his playoff career.

You really do think you're better than all the rest of us huh?

I'm guessing you really aren't a Wings fan at all and are, in fact, a Penguins fan trying to provoke people.

[BuckeyeWingsfan80 209]

I call bulls*** on this.

Did he call back?

BTW, nice job ending the sentence with a preposition. I thought someone who thinks of himself as you do would be smart enough to avoid such things.

Edited June 13, 2009 by BuckeyeWingsfan80

[Guest Shoreline]

I call bulls*** on this. And since 9 times out of 13 is always to you, that fact alone makes you look like an idiot.

Actually, that would be 12 out of 13 (11 to even concede the Kings series despite the fact that he was run out of town by the same knee-jerk attitude displayed here, which was then amended when he re-signed with the Wings), and even Patrick Roy had that one or two off years. By your extreme-fancying rationales, a player must be perfect or he's the weakest link. <- This rationale is ******* stupid.

And since all you have is to compare NHL Center Ice and "years you've been a fan", that pretty much shows who's the real idiot here. You're way overmatched here, bub.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Shoreline