Marian Hossa, merged

[Outsider 42]

The only pattern I've noticed is that you're a bit overmatched here.

That's the same opinion you carried all Season long regarding fans who believed that Osgood would turn it up once the Play Offs began.

No one is "overmatched" here.

Your baseless arrogance is comical, though.

Rather like it was ALL SEASON LONG.

[Outsider 42]

Yea, that .890 save percentage and 2.5+ goals against average in the playoffs was certainly stellar. I've got to admit, you certainly know your s***.

Ahhhh....see? Here you go again!

Stats don't always tell the whole story. Sometimes, in THIS Game, it's helpful to actually WATCH the games.

Osgood was left hanging out to dry by the Blues that PS against the Sharks. He wasn't spectacular, but he was definitely better than his stats reflect.

[Dr. Snacks 0]

Well....

Perhaps YOU would choose #2, "for sure". But Hossa certainly wouldn't. He'll take #1. How do we know?

Because he's already done so. That's PRECISELY what he did when he LEFT the Pens in order to come "Win the Cup" with the already stacked Detroit Red Wings.

Fail. Epic Fail.

I don't see where the epic fail is. There is nothing shameful about losing with dignity. Marian Hossa chose to come here and play with the Red Wings, and he also chose to suffer whatever consequences came his way as a result of his choice. Things didn't end up the way he would have liked them to, but I personally think that will make winning sweeter for him in the end.

The past is written, it's done. What matters now is the future. I suggest you stop dwelling on the past and move forward.

[Guest Shoreline]

Perhaps even more interesting than you combing through your dictionary to find a few words that you think might inflate your intelligence is the fact that Ozzie hasn't always "stepped up in the playoffs". In case you have a short memory, perhaps you remember him getting shipped off to the Isles after the debacle vs. the Kings in 00 - 01. In fact, that playoffs (yea, before you bring it up, Im aware of the injuries) and the following 3 seasons away from Detroit, I'd hardly say that Ozzie "stepped up" in the playoffs. But hey, I guess that's all part of that "short term memory" thing you mentioned earlier. I'll stay clear of the genitalia comparisons........I doubt anyone on here is as big a ****** as you are.

Him being shipped off must have been part of the wonderful fact that the Red Wings organization and Detroit Red Wings fans have been ever so patient with goalies before, right? I mean you've been a fan for 200+ years so I'm sure you can verify that one, along with lolpanic, bandwagonism from the dictionary since I'm using such big words. Since you like to have a good ol' **** about Ozzie's stats, riddle me this -- he has better playoff GAA than Patrick Roy and right behind Brodeur, who both are/were Hall of Fame goalies. Those who have been there, done that, tend not to be so ******* knee-jerk and go crying relentlessly about one season, or one random playoff series where Ozzie happens to give up a few bad goals. You've been trying to push on me some e-peen s*** about being a hockey fan longer than I have (which I don't even care to contest) yet you sure as hell have the hockey wisdom of of someone who just started watching the Wings this season or a few seasons ago. Someone who's been there would know better about Osgood. You don't. Fail.

[soonboomer 31]

That's the same opinion you carried all Season long regarding fans who believed that Osgood would turn it up once the Play Offs began.

No one is "overmatched" here.

Your baseless arrogance is comical, though.

Rather like it was ALL SEASON LONG.

More baseless claims......I had no posts about Ozzie's potential playoff run until around the middle of April. Perhaps you need a reality check.

[Outsider 42]

I don't see where the epic fail is. There is nothing shameful about losing with dignity. Marian Hossa chose to come here and play with the Red Wings, and he also chose to suffer whatever consequences came his way as a result of his choice. Things didn't end up the way he would have liked them to, but I personally think that will make winning sweeter for him in the end.

The past is written, it's done. What matters now is the future. I suggest you stop dwelling on the past and move forward.

What is going ON here.....??? Doesn't anybody READ anymore?

Your question was, "Which is sweeter? Option 1, or Option 2?

You're answer was "I'd take Option 2".

I only responded that Hossa had ALREADY chosen Option 1. Tell me how losing the Cup last year, then leaving that Team to go to ANOTHER Team to Win the Cup THIS year, only to LOSE IT to the Team you left in the FIRST PLACE isn't and EPIC FAIL.

I never said that there was anything shameful in losing with dignity? Where did that come from?

[soonboomer 31]

Him being shipped off must have been part of the wonderful fact that the Red Wings organization and Detroit Red Wings fans have been ever so patient with goalies before, right? I mean you've been a fan for 200+ years so I'm sure you can verify that one, along with lolpanic, bandwagonism from the dictionary since I'm using such big words. Since you like to have a good ol' **** about Ozzie's stats, riddle me this -- he has better playoff GAA than Patrick Roy and right behind Brodeur, who both are/were Hall of Fame goalies. Those who have been there, done that, tend not to be so ******* knee-jerk and go crying relentlessly about one season, or one random playoff series where Ozzie happens to give up a few bad goals. You've been trying to push on me some e-peen s*** about being a hockey fan longer than I have (which I don't even care to contest) yet you sure as hell have the hockey wisdom of of someone who just started watching the Wings this season or a few seasons ago. Someone who's been there would know better about Osgood. You don't. Fail.

I'm well aware of how goaltenders have been handled over the years in Detroit, and as I stated earlier, I was wrong about my opinions about Ozzie this playoff season. But for all of you guys who "knew" that Ozzie would step up in the playoffs because he always does, well then, I call bulls***, because the facts don't support your point. If Holland thought that Ozzie was the answer in 2001, he never would have been traded. If my memory was correct, they paid Hasek $8 million or so that year..........and they could have kept Ozzie for less than half that. If you want to see "fail", just look in the mirror.

[Outsider 42]

I'm well aware of how goaltenders have been handled over the years in Detroit, and as I stated earlier, I was wrong about my opinions about Ozzie this playoff season. But for all of you guys who "knew" that Ozzie would step up in the playoffs because he always does, well then, I call bulls***, because the facts don't support your point. If Holland thought that Ozzie was the answer in 2001, he never would have been traded. If my memory was correct, they paid Hasek $8 million or so that year..........and they could have kept Ozzie for less than half that. If you want to see "fail", just look in the mirror.

<sigh>

Osgood wasn't traded.

[soonboomer 31]

Ahhhh....see? Here you go again!

Stats don't always tell the whole story. Sometimes, in THIS Game, it's helpful to actually WATCH the games.

Osgood was left hanging out to dry by the Blues that PS against the Sharks. He wasn't spectacular, but he was definitely better than his stats reflect.

You've got to admit, picking the worst playoff season of Ozzie's career, statistically, to support a point is fairly moronic.

[DSM 114]

I'm not only blaming this loss on Hossa, but also Mike Emrick. Had Gary Thorne called the series, it would have been a sweep.

[soonboomer 31]

<sigh>

Osgood wasn't traded.

My bad, you got me on that one.

[Guest Shoreline]

I'm well aware of how goaltenders have been handled over the years in Detroit, and as I stated earlier, I was wrong about my opinions about Ozzie this playoff season. But for all of you guys who "knew" that Ozzie would step up in the playoffs because he always does, well then, I call bulls***, because the facts don't support your point. If Holland thought that Ozzie was the answer in 2001, he never would have been traded. If my memory was correct, they paid Hasek $8 million or so that year..........and they could have kept Ozzie for less than half that. If you want to see "fail", just look in the mirror.

Facts don't support the point? WHAT facts? This one regular season and because he happened to be partly responsible for the 2001 debacle? There's something drastically ******* wrong with your "facts". People didn't have faith in Ozzie just because it was fun to do. It's because he's proven time and time again he is extremely consistent. Consider his re-signing a testament to that, given how hard on goalie's this organization has been. You seem to think you can just arbitrarily suggest "facts" yet not even come up with anything of substance. Empty statement and it's easy to see right through that croc of s***. As said in my very first response to you, you were better off eating your crow and shutting the f*** up about it before looking even worse. You really have no clue and it's as obvious as day. Good luck getting that through your thick skull though.

Edited June 13, 2009 by Shoreline

[PDX Wingman 0]

I am not bothering to read this whole thread but am I the only one who feels really bad for Hossa? I like the guy a lot and the wings losing had nothing to do with him being here. There is no "jinx" or anything. That is just stupid. Yea he didnt play well at all and didnt contribute much in the playoffs but he is still a world class player and I would keep him on the team if we could. It was one game, if the wings won, we would all want to keep him...

Stay strong Hossa, next year I promise.

You promise? Hell, maybe they ought to pay you the seven million bucks instead of the born loser Hossa who actually could have impacted the result of the series. It only would have taken a goal or two!

[PDX Wingman 0]

(double post)

Edited June 13, 2009 by PDX Wingman

[Outsider 42]

You've got to admit, picking the worst playoff season of Ozzie's career, statistically, to support a point is fairly moronic.

In all fairness, soonboomer, I didn't "pick" the years. YOU did.

I was simply responding to YOUR post.

However, conversely, choosing to cite instances where Osgood had to CARRY Teams to the Post Season, Teams who had no business being there, and who wouldn't have made it there at ALL without him, and then using those years, and the fact that he couldn't take them any further than he did, as examples to support the fact that Osgood didn't "step it up" in those years isn't exactly objective, either.

Is it?

[soonboomer 31]

Facts don't support the point? WHAT facts? This one regular season and because he happened to be partly responsible for the 2001 debacle? There's something drastically ******* wrong with your "facts". People didn't have faith in Ozzie just because it was fun to do. It's because he's proven time and time again he is extremely consistent. Consider his re-signing a testament to that, given how hard on goalie's this organization has been. You seem to think you can just arbitrarily suggest "facts" yet not even come up with anything of substance. Empty statement and it's easy to see right through that croc of s***. As said in my very first response to you, you were better off eating your crow and shutting the f*** up about it before looking even worse. You really have no clue and it's as obvious as day. Good luck getting that through your thick skull though.

I'd say you're the clueless one here.......from Ozzie's last season before the Hasek deal through the years with the Isles and the Blues (4 total playoff seasons), anyone who think's Ozzie was anything more than average has to be on mind altering drugs. What can be "drastically wrong with facts"? Maybe it's your interpretation thereof thats a "croc of s***"

[soonboomer 31]

In all fairness, soonboomer, I didn't "pick" the years. YOU did.

I was simply responding to YOUR post.

However, conversely, choosing to cite instances where Osgood had to CARRY Teams to the Post Season, Teams who had no business being there, and who wouldn't have made it there at ALL without him, and then using those years, and the fact that he couldn't take them any further than he did, as examples to support the fact that Osgood didn't "step it up" in those years isn't exactly objective, either.

Is it?

All I was doing was presenting facts that support the argument that Ozzie always stepping up in the playoffs was not a "given"

[Outsider 42]

I'd say you're the clueless one here.......from Ozzie's last season before the Hasek deal through the years with the Isles and the Blues (4 total playoff seasons), anyone who think's Ozzie was anything more than average has to be on mind altering drugs. What can be "drastically wrong with facts"? Maybe it's your interpretation thereof thats a "croc of s***"

Please see my post, above.

With all due respect, your bias is showing.

I'm trying to keep this civil, before we BOTH, (all?), face a temporary ban.

No one wants that.

[soonboomer 31]

Please see my post, above.

With all due respect, your bias is showing.

I'm trying to keep this civil, before we BOTH, (all?), face a temporary ban.

No one wants that.

Agreed, but when Ozzie wasnt a wing, he was the enemy.

[Dr. Snacks 0]

What is going ON here.....??? Doesn't anybody READ anymore?

Your question was, "Which is sweeter? Option 1, or Option 2?

You're answer was "I'd take Option 2".

I only responded that Hossa had ALREADY chosen Option 1. Tell me how losing the Cup last year, then leaving that Team to go to ANOTHER Team to Win the Cup THIS year, only to LOSE IT to the Team you left in the FIRST PLACE isn't and EPIC FAIL.

I never said that there was anything shameful in losing with dignity? Where did that come from?

He lost, and the circumstances made it pretty ironic, but that doesn't mean he should be labeled an epic failure. Epic fail = you should be ashamed of yourself. I don't see it that way. It's not like he knew there would be a rematch for this year's SCF and decided to jump ship. He wanted to be somewhere he felt he could win, but it certainly wasn't a guarantee. What happened is definitely humbling for him, and I think he will be all the better for it. Of course he chose option 1, but if option 2 happens for him some day, it will be much sweeter, and he'll appreciate it so much more - even if he doesn't think so right now.

[Guest Shoreline]

I'd say you're the clueless one here.......from Ozzie's last season before the Hasek deal through the years with the Isles and the Blues (4 total playoff seasons), anyone who think's Ozzie was anything more than average has to be on mind altering drugs. What can be "drastically wrong with facts"? Maybe it's your interpretation thereof thats a "croc of s***"

Regarding the Isles and Blues, their playoff exits weren't really his fault at all. The one consistent thing with Ozzie is when it comes to the playoffs, he does his job and does it well. You're having a good **** regarding the regular season, we're over here talking about the postseason. In this discussion about hockey and the consistency of a player in the postseason, it looks like you're being left behind again with you suggesting "facts" and looking dumb doing so. If these stats were really all about how s***ty Ozzie was, why did Babs stick with him instead of going with Conklin? Probably because he's not as stupidly knee-jerk as you. Hence why he's the coach, and you're left, again, citing non-existent "facts" without the ability to back them up.

[Outsider 42]

All I was doing was presenting facts that support the argument that Ozzie always stepping up in the playoffs was not a "given"

<sigh>

Soonboomer....

Osgood DID step it up in the Post Season for the Isles in 2002. I've got every game on tape. Check my avatar, and note the Team jersey.

Get it?

Osgood was our BEST player that Post Season. We lost KJ, (our poor-mans Lidstrom), and our Captain on two CHEAP, DIRTY hits that Series.

Osgood was the ONLY reason the Isles Team took ToROTno to 7 Games. Period.

In 2003, the entire Blues Team was puking into buckets on the bench, when EVERYONE, (including Osgood), went down with the flu.

In 2004, Osgood was the ONLY Blue to show up against the Sharks, and he was left HANGING OUT TO DRY as Pronger imploded, time after time after time. Add in the Danton "murder for hire" case, and him being arrested at the Team hotel in San Jose for the offense....and you've got a not-so-great atmosphere for Play Off sucess going on.

NONE of those three Teams had ANY business going ANYWHERE that Post Season. That does NOT mean that Oz didn't "step up" his Game.

He did. It just wasn't enough, under any circumstances, to make enough of a difference.

As for 2001? He DID step it up. AGAIN. He was WIDELY CONSIDERED to be the Wings BEST PLAYER, the "only bright spot" that Play Off year.

Sometimes, no matter HOW MUCH a player "steps it up", he just CAN'T DO IT, ALONE! What part of this is unclear to you?

Edited June 13, 2009 by Outsider

[soonboomer 31]

Regarding the Isles and Blues, their playoff exits weren't really his fault at all. The one consistent thing with Ozzie is when it comes to the playoffs, he does his job and does it well. You're having a good **** regarding the regular season, we're over here talking about the postseason. In this discussion about hockey and the consistency of a player in the postseason, it looks like you're being left behind again with you suggesting "facts" and looking dumb doing so. If these stats were really all about how s***ty Ozzie was, why did Babs stick with him instead of going with Conklin? Probably because he's not as stupidly knee-jerk as you. Hence why he's the coach, and you're left, again, citing non-existent "facts" without the ability to back them up.

Everything in the way of facts I've quoted are FOR THE PLAYOFFS..........are you drunk or something? Babs stuck with Ozzie because he was the best option (and one I agreed with)........just as when he was released in 2001, they thought Ozzie was not the best option. I use facts, you use the emotion of your opinions. You lose.

[Outsider 42]

Agreed, but when Ozzie wasnt a wing, he was the enemy.

What does the fact that he was "the enemy" have to do with his performance?

Or is it fairly accurate to state that what you're REALLY saying is that, as an "enemy", it's not necessary, nor even desirable, to give an OBJECTIVE assessment of his performance?

[soonboomer 31]

What does the fact that he was "the enemy" have to do with his performance?

Or is it fairly accurate to state that what you're REALLY saying is that, as an "enemy", it's not necessary, nor even desirable, to give an OBJECTIVE assessment of his performance?

I've been nothing but objective. I don't like to bash players of the team I support, but since Ozzie wasnt a wing at the time, I dont feel as bad about it.