Coyotes staying in Phoenix

[C-TownWing 0]

I think the whole problem with the situation is Balsille. If he would just play by the rules, he'd get his team and we could stop hearing him whine about it.

Step 1. Get approval from BOG to buy the team.

Step 2. Buy Team

Step 3. Get approval from BOG to move team.

Step 4. Move team.

Is that really all that complicated? I mean seriously. This is the process for buying a team, and has been for a long time. Just because you're rich and have a good idea doesn't mean you don't need to follow the established rules.

Exactly. This isn't really about whether Phoenix is a viable hockey market. The team is still probably going to be moved at some point, it just might take a couple years longer. It's about whether a prospective owner can take control of a team without following the NHL's rules for such things. I'm glad the NHL won.

Balsillie is going to have a lot of trouble getting a team thanks to his repeated douchebaggery (don't forget the Hamilton ticket deposit fiasco too). Which is unfortunate because he's loaded, passionate and may ultimately be good for the game. Why couldn't he just buy a team, THEN try to move them like everyone else who has done so? Ironically, it's more accepted to move a team if you lie about your intentions up front.

[drwscc 212]

Wrong.

Balsillie is more or less a "Mark Cuban" type; a bit brash, loves the game, is a billionaire, and would relocate the team to a city/area in which it'll sell-out each, and every night...What's wrong with this?

If the team stays in Phoenix it'll continue to lose money; not a very smart business move IMO for the owners/league.

Then what is stopping him from doing it the right way? Even Mark Cuban seems to think Balsille is being a ****** about it. If Balsille *really* wants a team in Southern Ontario, which noone is arguing will be a decent market, he needs to take some paraphrased advice from Jim Carrey in Liar, Liar, and "Stop breaking the (rules), *******!"

[drwscc 212]

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1696126

"My guess is that this is more about process than individuals," Cuban wrote in an e-mail yesterday. "Purchasing -- and the possibility of moving a franchise -- is not something any commissioner wants to see negotiated through the press."

"The issue isn't the owner or their personalities," Cuban wrote. "It's the issue of control. No commissioner wants there to ever be the slightest perception that they are not in control of the assets of the league. Loss of control can have far greater impact on the business of the league than the personality or desires of any owner."

[drwscc 212]

What Cuban is saying is that Balsille should not be taking this to the media, and needs to be aware of the power structure. If the league loses controll of the Coyotes, and Balsille is able to just buy the team and move it while giving the league the finger, what is to stop someone from buying a majority stake in say, the Boston Bruins, and moving them to Houston or Idaho? If the league can't step in and say "here are the rules, you must follow them" then who can?

Just because you are rich, that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want.

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

The creditors who are owed money by the Club in Phoenix must sit and wait even longer because, thanks to the Judge's ruling on Monday, the League now gets to do things on their timetable. Who's handling the "auction"... Sotheby's?

[Dimaline312000 51]

Great to hear that, I really didn't want to see another NHL team in Ontario. Hopefully the Yotes can bounce back. Maybe do something in the draft to get a solid player that can help them build a good team and a team that can maybe make it to the playoffs this coming season.

[VM1138 1,921]

What many here forget is that Balsillie had tried "playing by the rules" when he 1st looked into buying the Pens.

During the negotiations at that time - then owners of the Pens (via league/Bettman) introduced a clause into the contract that would've kept the team in Pittsburgh long term; Balsillie wanting to move the team then had backed out...When he attempted to purchase the Preds he then proved to the critics/league he could sell-out Copps Coliseum when he had the season ticket sale.

Why on earth would anyone with any sense spend millions only to keep a team in a struggling market?

Exactly. He's tried playing by the rules and the NHL won't let anyone buy a southern team if they perceive the new owner will want to move it. Balsillie is also the only person capable of pulling this off, but since his intentions are already known, the proper channels won't allow it happen and the league continues to be burdened with a failing market.

[stevie for president 42]

off topic, but to everyone that is mad about the move out of winnipeg, Bettman was not to blame and if it wasnt for him Canada wouldnt have their 6 teams, vancouver, edmonton, calgary and ottawa would not exist if it wasnt for bettman. and buffalo would probably be gone too.

[drwscc 212]

Exactly. He's tried playing by the rules and the NHL won't let anyone buy a southern team if they perceive the new owner will want to move it. Balsillie is also the only person capable of pulling this off, but since his intentions are already known, the proper channels won't allow it happen and the league continues to be burdened with a failing market.

This is not true. Boots del Baggio was going to move the Preds eventually, and he was approved to buy the team. It all has to do with the timing. Balsille wants to buy the team and immediately move it, which the BOG has already said they will not do. First he has to buy the team. Then, they will vote on whether or not to relocate it. They're not going to do both at the same time. These are the rules, and have been for some time.

I don't understand why Balsille is going about this the way he is. If you want to become a member of an exclusive club, it pays not to piss off the other people already there.

[C-TownWing 0]

This is not true. Boots del Baggio was going to move the Preds eventually, and he was approved to buy the team. It all has to do with the timing. Balsille wants to buy the team and immediately move it, which the BOG has already said they will not do. First he has to buy the team. Then, they will vote on whether or not to relocate it. They're not going to do both at the same time. These are the rules, and have been for some time.

I don't understand why Balsille is going about this the way he is. If you want to become a member of an exclusive club, it pays not to piss off the other people already there.

Absolutely...he should have just bought the Pens/Preds/Yotes and said that he has every intention of making things work in the current location. Barely anyone would think twice if a year later, he said "sorry, but I'm losing a crapload of money here, we've explored alternatives, but I need to relocate," since that happens 1-2 times per decade. You take the hit to make the play. If not for Balsillie's shortsightedness, the Preds would already be in Hamilton (and the Sabres would be in KC, but that's a different discussion).

He's basically painted himself into a corner where everyone knows his intentions--he's hovering like a vulture, looking for a dying franchise to scoop up and take to Hamilton. He's pissed off the league to the point that even if he does succeed eventually, it won't be without making a few lawyers rich.

[drwscc 212]

And Baggio is indicted for bank fraud - what company Gary B keeps

I agree it's not a smart move to piss off the BOG, but when Bettman influences the previous Pens owners to add a clause into the sales contract to keep the team in Pittsburgh - why would Balsillie have any faith in negotiating the "right way"?

And Balsille was investigated by the SEC and lost his case. What's your point? That Balsille is just as scummy as Boots? Actually, Boots went through the right process, and look what happened.

Balsille continues to go about this the wrong way. Really, if he just shut his mouth, and purchased a team, agreeing to keep it where it is for a while, and allowing the BOG to vote on the relocation, he'd be fine. Ontario would get a new team, and life would go on. Balsille is the one turning this into a circus, and he's cutting his own throat by pissing everyone off.

[drwscc 212]

You do it because that's the process that's in place.

It's bad business to go to the DMV to get your driver's license. You waste alot of time standing in line, you have to pay for it. Why should anyone get a driver's license? Just drive around without one, right? I mean, the process is a big hassle, and you're not guaranteed to get a license, so we can just ignore it, right?

There are processes that have to be followed, and hoops that have to be jumped through in order to own a team. We can't just scrap all of that because one spoiled billionaire wants it. Noone at this point is disputing that Southern Ontario would be a good market. Even the NHL acknowledged that it would be a good place to put a team. That doesn't mean Balsille should automatically get his way because his idea is good.

Like I read somewhere, Balsille is wrong for the right reasons and Bettman is right for the wrong reasons.

[Cern 0]

I think the whole problem with the situation is Balsille. If he would just play by the rules, he'd get his team and we could stop hearing him whine about it.

Step 1. Get approval from BOG to buy the team.

Step 2. Buy Team

Step 3. Get approval from BOG to move team.

Step 4. Move team.

Is that really all that complicated? I mean seriously. This is the process for buying a team, and has been for a long time. Just because you're rich and have a good idea doesn't mean you don't need to follow the established rules.

Or even if he was flexible on where 'Make it Seven' would be, er, made seven. Bettman stirred the pot by citing Winnipeg over Hamilton as a potential relocation spot in a legal document. You can debate whether a new team there would work, but if Balsillie wasn't just in this for the sake of having a team in his own backyard and called Bettman out by saying "Hey, if you think Winnipeg would work I'll put my backing there", Gary would be in a bit of a bind. I think Balsillie's big problem is more in inflexibility than his methodology.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

I think the whole problem with the situation is Balsille. If he would just play by the rules, he'd get his team and we could stop hearing him whine about it.

Step 1. Get approval from BOG to buy the team.

Step 2. Buy Team

Step 3. Get approval from BOG to move team.

Step 4. Move team.

Is that really all that complicated? I mean seriously. This is the process for buying a team, and has been for a long time. Just because you're rich and have a good idea doesn't mean you don't need to follow the established rules.

Agree completely. If I understand the legal side of NHL it is up to another 29 owners to let him join the club. He cannot just force himself in.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

I agree with ya that Balsillie should follow the "rules" set aside by the league/BOG...That said it looks to me as though there's no guarantee that the BOG will approve of any sale if Balsillie were to purchase any existing franchise with efforts to move them thereafter (in particular the MLSE, and you know darn well Bettman would support the MLSE in every way to keep a Balsillie owned team outta southern Ontario).

The fact that any buyer would have to get league/BOG approval to move a team is just part of the rules. There is not supposed to be a guarantee that move will be allowed. Maybe the rest of the owners hate him and want him to be stuck in bad market and lose loads of money. If he is not willing to take a chance and go through the expected motions maybe he should think about starting his own league so that he can make the rules.

[Pskov Wings Fan 71]

That's the precise reason why Balsillie wants the team moved as part of his bid for the Yotes...He knows there's a better than average chance he'll be stuck down there for quite some time.

If he wants the team he got the money to last in Phoenix for a while...

On a different topic; anyone remember how Mario Lemieux was immediately inducted into the HOF - waiving the standard 3 year waiting period?

I understand this is a totally different situation, but if exceptions can be made for the HOF - then why can't exceptions be made here?

NHL appears to be a private club governed by its own set of rules. Such an exception would have to be granted by its current members. If they are not willing to do so it is just tough. Balsille would have to wait until owners change their minds.

Edited June 18, 2009 by Pskov Wings Fan

[cusimano_brothers 1,655]

...

On a different topic; anyone remember how Mario Lemieux was immediately inducted into the HOF - waiving the standard 3 year waiting period?

...

From hhof dot com.

Mario Lemieux was diagnosed with cancer during the 1992-93, and although he was sidelined a month undergoing treatment, still led the NHL in scoring and was awarded the Masterton Trophy for perseverance and dedication.

The next season was limited to just 22 games and Lemieux sat out the entire 1994-95 season because of his health. Nevertheless, he returned in 1995-96 and led the NHL in scoring once again.

Following the 1996-97 season, Mario Lemieux retired, citing his on-going health issues. The Hockey Hall of Fame waived its three-year waiting period and Lemieux was elected as an Honoured Member that fall.

[stevie for president 42]

That's the precise reason why Balsillie wants the team moved as part of his bid for the Yotes...He knows there's a better than average chance he'll be stuck down there for quite some time.

On a different topic; anyone remember how Mario Lemieux was immediately inducted into the HOF - waiving the standard 3 year waiting period?

I understand this is a totally different situation, but if exceptions can be made for the HOF - then why can't exceptions be made here?

the hall of fame is not run by the NHL. the hhof waived a 3 year waiting period, not the NHL.

[drwscc 212]

That's the precise reason why Balsillie wants the team moved as part of his bid for the Yotes...He knows there's a better than average chance he'll be stuck down there for quite some time.

That's the risk you run when you get into owning a sports team. When Lemieux et al bought the Pens, they knew they'd be stuck losing money for a bit. It is what it is. If he doesn't want to risk staying in the desert as long as it takes the BOG to approve a move, then don't buy the team. It's really that simple.

On a different topic; anyone remember how Mario Lemieux was immediately inducted into the HOF - waiving the standard 3 year waiting period?

I understand this is a totally different situation, but if exceptions can be made for the HOF - then why can't exceptions be made here?

You do understand that getting something waived, like the requirement for BOG approval of buying a team and relocation being handled at different times, would require a favor from the BOG, right? The same people he has been s#itting all over trying to bully his way into getting what he wants? I don't know about you, but when someone acts like a jerk, I am much less inclined to want to do anything to help them out.

[drwscc 212]

I'm pretty certain Balsillie is a pompus/arrogant jerk as well - most of those millionaire types are...He is obviously smart enough, and vocal/brash enough in not placing trust in the league/Bettman since it'll be his $$$ that goes into any franchise, and it's obvious he wants to run it his way, or the highway.

He's already been told he's more than welcome to take a hike if he doesn't want to abide by the rules. If he's so smart, why doesn't he go to the ownership of another struggling franchise, have them apply for a move to Hamilton, and when they get approved, he buys the team? Wouldn't that accomplish his goal? But, he can't do the right or easy things, can he? He's rich, and doggone it, he's gonna do this his way until he's banned from the league from ever owning a team.

[eva unit zero 271]

Well, as the league has in the past approved Balsillie as a potential owner...

This could help fast track expansion to 32 teams, which would be a better number than 30; (4 divisions of 8 teams, or 8 divisions of 4)

Expansion could potentially include the Hamilton Blackberries and perhaps a team in Portland/Seattle, Winnipeg, Kansas City, Houston, or maybe even get an NHL team in Toronto or Denver because I hear those are pretty good hockey markets too.

Also, as part of the same offseason as the expansion, perhaps one of the Eastern teams (Such as Atlanta or Florida that has been consistenly doing poorly both on the ice and financially could see a move to a Western market like one of those mentioned above that might be better for its financial situation and result in better long-term results on-ice as it would be able to provide a better product by actually spending money on players instead of just reaching the cap floor.

So perhaps imagine divisions as such; we'll assume Atlanta moves as it's in worse financial shape with worse on-ice history than Florida:

CENTRAL: Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, Houston, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis

PACIFIC: Anaheim, Calgary, Edmonton, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Portland, San Jose, Vancouver

NORTHEAST: Boston, Buffalo, Detroit, Hamilton, Montreal, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Toronto

SOUTHEAST: Carolina, Florida, New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia, Tampa Bay, Washington

Also, I would have the top-four teams from each division make the playoffs and have a division playoff, then the division winners be seeded 1-4 based on regular season finish (for example, the Southeast division winner wouldn't always play the Northeast division winner)

Or, if you prefer the 8-division setup:

-Chicago, Columbus, Minnesota, Nashville

-Colorado, Dallas, Houston, St. Louis

-Anaheim, Los Angeles, Phoenix, San Jose

-Calgary, Edmonton, Portland, Vancouver

-Boston, Montreal, Ottawa, Toronto

-Buffalo, Detroit, Hamilton, Pittsburgh

-New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Philadelphia

-Carolina, Florida, Tampa Bay, Washington