Ottawa Sun: Wings have made lucrative long term offer to Hossa

[therock48880 14]

But...where did you get 40 million from? I don't recall hearing about the deal being 10 years, either at a 4 million cap hit or any other number. Is that just speculation?

I got it from the freep.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/SPORTS05/906140554/

"Since mid-season Hossa has said he would take less money to stay in Detroit. He has said he doesn't want to keep moving around the NHL, that he wants to settle down with a long-term contract. That works to the Wings' advantage, because they can figure out a way to offer him as much as 10 years provided the salary cap hit is right around $4 million a season, similar to Johan Franzen's deal. Hossa, 30, made $7.45 million this past season, and if he wants similar money, he won't be staying in Detroit."

Edited June 25, 2009 by therock48880

[Zetts 236]

Well...I would imagine it would be hard to be just as good defensively as the Selke winner. You could also tell Hossa was playing hurt, granted it wasn't a broken foot, but you could still see him lingering.

I wouldn't go anymore than 4 million. You aren't sacrificing that much depth if you really look at it; someone is gonna make Hudler an offer the Red Wings can not match, hello draft picks. Sammy is going to make more money somewhere else, and while he scores some timely goal(s) in the playoffs I can live without him. It all boils down to Valterri Flippula. You're losing Valterri Flippula for Marian Hossa. Why would anyone not do that?

So can that same excuse be applied to Hank?

I didn't say he was. I said you can argue. I will say he is one of the purest goal scorers in the NHL.

Perhaps we actually agree then? Like I said, I would take Hossa at 4 million. I wouldn't like it, since I still really dislike the guy, but it would be pretty difficult not to make that deal. Having said that, what are the chances of that actually happening? I'm thinking of a combination of a snowball and hell.

As far as your comment about the same excuse being applied to Hank...I actually have no idea what you mean by that. Do you mean for Hank himself offensively? In which case, he was actually quite good. Or do you mean from the point of the view of the players that Hank shut down, in which case I would say that Hossa never had someone of Hank's calibre on his tail during the playoffs.

[Zetts 236]

You don't even have to do all that. The Wings have a cap space of 3.17 mil right? If he agrees to a 4 mil cap hit, they could just drop Meech and Lebda.

I'd take a 4mil Hossa over a 3mil Huds+Lebda+Meech, again, if it's possible.

Also, for those who worry about depth in case of injuries, I thought the Wings are filled with players who play on one line but deserve a notch higher in terms of minutes. Filppula played like 14-16 minutes a game this past season right? He's supposed to be the 2nd line center. I'm sure he'll love having to double shift between the 2nd and 3rd line in case of injury. It's only the Drapers and Maltbys that you can't double shift.

Yes, but what about our defensive depth?

That leaves us with...

Lidstrom Raffy

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Lilja

...and then what. If injuries set in, we're DONE. Maybe get all Red Wings fans to join into some sort of giant "anti-injuries dance". I apologize if that sounded stupid, but the thought just made me laugh. But that is seriously how desperate we'd be to stay healthy.

And for god's sake, please do not say Kindl. Ignoring any arguments about him not being ready for the moment (which he's not), then HIS salary becomes part of the cap. Lebda and Meech aren't just sitting around for kicks, and their salaries are already very very low (only marginally higher than any minor league replacements).

I got it from the freep.

http://www.freep.com/article/20090614/SPORTS05/906140554/

"Since mid-season Hossa has said he would take less money to stay in Detroit. He has said he doesn't want to keep moving around the NHL, that he wants to settle down with a long-term contract. That works to the Wings' advantage, because they can figure out a way to offer him as much as 10 years provided the salary cap hit is right around $4 million a season, similar to Johan Franzen's deal. Hossa, 30, made $7.45 million this past season, and if he wants similar money, he won't be staying in Detroit."

My apologies, you're right. But I still say that's not lucrative when compared to other deals he's been offered of over double that amount.

[therock48880 14]

Also, keep in mind that Rich Winter, Hossa's agent, has already stated that the salary cap won't deter Hossa from signing in Detroit.

""I will tell you this: despite what people are saying, the salary cap in Detroit will definitely be no impediment to Marian signing there," said Winter.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.php/hock...ossa_situation/

This article states that the cap hit will be around 6 illion, though.

[40#1Fan 0]

SI's Kelley: Red Wings have given Marian Hossa their take-it-or-leave-it offer

Posted by George James Malik June 25, 2009 15:38PM

Despite Red Wings GM Ken Holland's protestations to the contrary, Sports Illustrated's Jim Kelley lends credence to Bruce Garrioch's report that the Red Wings have made their final offer to Marian Hossa:

June 25, Sports Illustrated: Sources say the Detroit Red Wings have put their best and likely final offer on the table for forward Marian Hossa, a genuinely good player who was a genuine disappointment in the playoffs.

Remember all those pundits who pretty much awarded the Red Wings the Stanley Cup last offseason once Hossa agreed to spurn a multi-year offer from the Penguins? Those were the same people who said Hossa's move to a one-year deal with Detroit was brilliant in that he would win the Cup and thus position himself for long-term free-agent riches afterward.

That isn't happening.

Detroit's offer is rumored to be a good one, but not in the "highest-paid in the league" category. There likely will be interest in Hossa if he spurns it, but not at nearly the amount envisioned at this time last season. Hey, he rolled the dice and lost. It won't be a crap-out loss, but it will be a smaller number just the same -- likely smaller than what the Penguins were offering. Had Hossa re-signed there, he just might have ended up with the Cup rather than watching his old team hold it over him while he stared at a cut in projected pay.

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/si..._have_give.html

[gcom007 1,465]

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/tw..._stories_f.html

Holland said in an interview today that the rumor is false, they're waiting on the cap still and the Wings are still Hossa's first choice. They're waiting on the cap and then are going to try to find a number both parties can live with and sign him up.

[titanium2 867]

Yes, but what about our defensive depth?

That leaves us with...

Lidstrom Raffy

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Lilja

...and then what. If injuries set in, we're DONE. Maybe get all Red Wings fans to join into some sort of giant "anti-injuries dance". I apologize if that sounded stupid, but the thought just made me laugh. But that is seriously how desperate we'd be to stay healthy.

And for god's sake, please do not say Kindl. Ignoring any arguments about him not being ready for the moment (which he's not), then HIS salary becomes part of the cap. Lebda and Meech aren't just sitting around for kicks, and their salaries are already very very low (only marginally higher than any minor league replacements).

I know, but unless the injuries are really severe, Ericsson or Lilja or whoever can be a 3-5 game stopgap with an increase in minutes. Or maybe just an overall increase in minutes for whoever is healthy with the bulk of the increase going to a guy who plays the least amount of minutes, Big E or Lils. They've done that sort of thing before. Only a certain amount of minutes would go to whoever is a fill in for that night while an increase would go to the regulars overall. Again, that's an idea for like a groin pull or something like that. But if they were to encounter Stewie crashing his head into the boards or a spear into Nick's left nut then perhaps they'd qualify for LTIR and then they'd have to dip into GR.

Big E with third pairing minutes is good, but he can't most definitely handle more. The same goes for Lils. That's why it's nice to have players on the 3rd pairing who really should be on the 2nd pairing. It's not the best idea, but I could live with it if Hossa signs for a 4mil cap hit.

I'm not even sure if I'd have Kindl be the first back end call up. At this point Kolosov and Lashoff look better than him defensively.

[StevieY9802 6]

yeah I have a feeling there is an offer on the table. Kenny knows what he can afford no matter what the cap does. Its not like the increase or decrease in the cap is all that big. People say a few hundred grand is huge, not in terms of signing Hossa. It's putting more guys around him. 400k isn't going to make it ok to sign Hossa.

I'm getting to the point that I don't mind if he leaves and they keep Hudler and add another role player. But I have faith in Holland in making the right moves. how many bad deals has this guy really made? People point to the Bertuzzi deal as being a bad deal and yet Mathias has played 20 games in 2 years and scored 2 goals. whoa look out for him!

[therock48880 14]

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/tw..._stories_f.html

Holland said in an interview today that the rumor is false, they're waiting on the cap still and the Wings are still Hossa's first choice. They're waiting on the cap and then are going to try to find a number both parties can live with and sign him up.

The cap is now set. I read it in the "09-10 Cap" thread. It's supposed to be right around the 56.7 of this season. I also read somewhere that it may go up a couple hundred thousand more than that. So, I guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 57 million, give or take a little bit.

[Zetts 236]

I know, but unless the injuries are really severe, Ericsson or Lilja or whoever can be a 3-5 game stopgap with an increase in minutes. Or maybe just an overall increase in minutes for whoever is healthy with the bulk of the increase going to a guy who plays the least amount of minutes, Big E or Lils. They've done that sort of thing before. Only a certain amount of minutes would go to whoever is a fill in for that night while an increase would go to the regulars overall. Again, that's an idea for like a groin pull or something like that. But if they were to encounter Stewie crashing his head into the boards or a spear into Nick's left nut then perhaps they'd qualify for LTIR and then they'd have to dip into GR.

Big E with third pairing minutes is good, but he can't most definitely handle more. The same goes for Lils. That's why it's nice to have players on the 3rd pairing who really should be on the 2nd pairing. It's not the best idea, but I could live with it if Hossa signs for a 4mil cap hit.

I'm not even sure if I'd have Kindl be the first back end call up. At this point Kolosov and Lashoff look better than him defensively.

No, but the issue with any sort of injury that doesn't put someone on LTIR is that they wouldn't have the cap space to call somebody up and there's no seventh d. Unless I don't understand the particulars. But isn't that what happened to Calgary? Hypothetically, 2 defense pull their groin (not unlikely) and we're literally playing with 4 d.

[gcom007 1,465]

The cap is now set. I read it in the "09-10 Cap" thread. It's supposed to be right around the 56.7 of this season. I also read somewhere that it may go up a couple hundred thousand more than that. So, I guess somewhere in the neighborhood of 57 million, give or take a little bit.

Maybe so, but none the less, that article is an update that's about an hour old based on direct quotes from Holland today.

[#18 the _Hoss_ 2]

but besides Ovechkin you can argue Hossa is the purest goal scorer in the NHL.

+Gaborik

[therock48880 14]

Maybe so, but none the less, that article is an update that's about an hour old based on direct quotes from Holland today.

I understand. I read those quotes too. But since he said that, the cap has been set.

Interesting piece of info. Apparently there are rumors that the Wings want Wild backup goalie Josh Harding.

" June 25, Star-Tribune: And right now [Wild GM Chuck] Fletcher's in on a lot of different things, from [Dany] Heatley to countless other things (lots of rumors, but I only report what I know from sources, not what's just floating around) to talking with Toronto, Edmonton, Colorado, Detroit, St. Louis and Philly about Josh Harding."

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/tw..._stories_f.html

[Esquire 324]

Interesting piece of info. Apparently there are rumors that the Wings want Wild backup goalie Josh Harding.

Impossible. Harding could never look across the locker room and see Datsyuk without s***ting his pants and crying uncontrollably.

[gcom007 1,465]

I understand. I read those quotes too. But since he said that, the cap has been set.

Interesting piece of info. Apparently there are rumors that the Wings want Wild backup goalie Josh Harding.

" June 25, Star-Tribune: And right now [Wild GM Chuck] Fletcher's in on a lot of different things, from [Dany] Heatley to countless other things (lots of rumors, but I only report what I know from sources, not what's just floating around) to talking with Toronto, Edmonton, Colorado, Detroit, St. Louis and Philly about Josh Harding."

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/tw..._stories_f.html

Yeah, I saw that and found it odd. I will say though that I'm hardly thrilled about the idea of Howard as a backup. And to think he was supposed to potentially be a starter or starter 1b by now from what people were saying early on. Now in 2009, it's up in the air whether anyone thinks he can even handle a backup role. I think it's foolish to skip on Conklin if he's willing to play for similar money to what he made, but he could likely get a good deal more elsewhere and I can't say I blame him. He's not the highest paid guy in the league by a longshot...

[gcom007 1,465]

And make no mistake, I'll be one of the happiest people around when and if it's announced that they've reached an agreement. I think we'd be foolish to not do everything in our power to keep this guy a Wing for life. He's nothing short of great and he'll be HUGE for us in the playoffs next go around. I have 0 doubt in my mind.

[Frozen-Man 144]

I understand. I read those quotes too. But since he said that, the cap has been set.

That is correct according to Kukla quoting a NY Post's Larry Brooks:

The NHL players union has voted to trigger the 5-percent escalator on the 2009-10 salary cap, The Post has learned. This means that the 2009-10 cap will remain within a couple of hundred thousand dollars of last season’s figure of $56.7 million.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I understand. I read those quotes too. But since he said that, the cap has been set.

Interesting piece of info. Apparently there are rumors that the Wings want Wild backup goalie Josh Harding.

" June 25, Star-Tribune: And right now [Wild GM Chuck] Fletcher's in on a lot of different things, from [Dany] Heatley to countless other things (lots of rumors, but I only report what I know from sources, not what's just floating around) to talking with Toronto, Edmonton, Colorado, Detroit, St. Louis and Philly about Josh Harding."

http://blog.mlive.com/snapshots/2009/06/tw..._stories_f.html

It says Fletcher is talking with Detroit about Harding. That doesn't necessarily mean that Detroit is interested in Harding. Perhaps Fletcher called up Holland and said, "We're interested in Filppula or Hudler. Are you interested in Harding?"

[Frozen-Man 144]

Looks like the new rumor/news is that the Wings have offered Hossa a final offer -

"Despite Red Wings GM Ken Holland's protestations to the contrary, Sports Illustrated's Jim Kelley lends credence to Bruce Garrioch's report that the Red Wings have made their final offer to Marian Hossa"

Who knows if any of it is true.

[therock48880 14]

One thing is for sure, I still love this time of the year. I liked it better before the cap but all of the speculation about who will be going where is killing me!

For the record, I hope Hossa stays but if he goes I won't go postal and create a 125 page thread about how Hossa has signed somewhere else. (that was a joke Pens fans) The cap space would be nice, but I'd prefer the world-class player.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

Ville Leino $1,100,000

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Justin Abdelkader $850,000

Tomas Kopecky $650,000

Darren Helm $599,444

Aaron Downey $500,000

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Brett Lebda $650,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

ROSTER SIZE 23

SALARY CAP $57,000,000

PAYROLL $56,570,653

BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000

CAP ROOM $429,347

This is the best I can come up with. I was a little optimistic and move the cap up to $57M. I'm not quite sure how to add a MIN of $4M to get Hossa it w/o losing a key piece!!

Here's the thing, Leino isn't re-signed yet, doubt he'll get $1.1, he might get $900,000 since he hasn'y proven he deserves a raise, Kopecky is not re-signed, Abdelkader has GRR eligibility left and Downey has not re-signed.

It is still gonna be hard, but have faith in Kenny that he will make the right dicision. He is not going to pull a Adam Oates trade here, he's going to do what is best for the team.

You could easily clear out some space by traing Kronwall, rights to Hudler, a few of our draft picks to the Isles for the #1 pick tomorrow and draft Hedman.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Here's the thing, Leino isn't re-signed yet, doubt he'll get $1.1, he might get $900,000 since he hasn'y proven he deserves a raise, Kopecky is not re-signed, Abdelkader has GRR eligibility left and Downey has not re-signed.

It is still gonna be hard, but have faith in Kenny that he will make the right dicision. He is not going to pull a Adam Oates trade here, he's going to do what is best for the team.

You could easily clear out some space by traing Kronwall, rights to Hudler, a few of our draft picks to the Isles for the #1 pick tomorrow and draft Hedman.

This is Garth Snow, not Mike Milburry.

[LeftWinger 5,153]

This is Garth Snow, not Mike Milburry.

It all depends on who the Isle really wants. If they are set on Tavares, then deal with the Light. I am just hell bent on getting Hedman, somehow, someway! How about throwing in Andersson or Kindl or Smith? There has to be some prospects we could package along woith Hudler and Kronwall to get Hedman! PLEASE KENNY GET IT DONE!!!!

[FedorovMan91 1]

Leino is not worth more than 1 million. He looks to have a great skill but he shows many of his weakness in this playoff. He must be worth as 0.7 or 0.8 million cap. He has proved none. Sure, he has somewhat 7 points in 11 or 12 games but it does not directly confirm his consistency in the season.

Besides, I will be happy if Hossa stays but I don't see this happens. I have thought for enough time and here is my thought for the way Hossa may be able to stay:

The cap hit is the average of the pay- roll. For Hossa, it is not important how much Hossa is worth as a salary cap. All matters for Hossa is the Cup, good deal, and the salary. If I consider Hossa gets a discount, he can take big money but he can also take little money as the year passes over and over.

Thought?

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Really, ? Are we 15 year old girls? No argument? Other than the hey, I can look cool and sarcastic at the same time with some emocations.

You make the argument of a 15 year old girl. "Ohhh he received attention during the playoffs, it's no wonder he struggled". Play through it, excel despite it.