Ottawa Sun: Wings have made lucrative long term offer to Hossa

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

We don't need to carry 23 guys on the roster, correct? I could be wrong. I thought we had 21 most of last year. 12 forwards and 7 defensemen. My modified roster version:

You are right, they don't have to, but what do you do if there is an injury on a game day? How do you get a replacement in. Unless you put a player on the IR list, there salary still counts. If you put them on IR they can't come back for more than two weeks regardless of health. Not a good plan considering the number of injuries that a team sustains in a year. Not to mention, your roster is already over the speculated cap number of $57M. There is no guarantee that the cap will even be that high. And, you have already assumed that Lilja won't be playing next year. If he does play, now we have to fit in another $1.25M. I just don't see how it works.

Edited June 25, 2009 by LIDDYGIBBY5

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

Holland on NHL live right now, saying they've had discussions during Febuary, talks stopped during the playoffs, and there have been little talks this week. No formal, official offer as of yet.

He also said, this is good news for some, bad news for me. If the cap hit is to Kens liking, and he doesnt have to make too many moves to incorporate it, he'll sign Hossa.

Not happy about that.

[Mors 201]

Why do you guys keep calculating a raise for Kopecky? Assuming he is signed (please god no) he sure as hell hasn't done anything to justify an INCREASE in pay...maybe I'm missing a league mandate here?

[96warrior 11]

Holland On The Wings

Blog: KK Hockey By Paul

06/25/09 at 01:11 PM ET | Comments (0)

Ken Holland was just on NHL Live, here is a recap.

Until the Wings know what the cap figure is, they really cannot make any moves.

Regarding Hossa, he has talked with Hossa’s agent this week, and believes the Wings are Hossa’s first choice. If he can get a cap number that satisfies both parties, then they will sign it. No official offer has been made, waiting for the hard cap number.

Regarding the draft, Wings will take a skater that fits into the Wings philosophy. The person they draft is probably 4-5 years away from the NHL and they are looking at the skill of the player.

[Zetts 236]

Why do you guys keep calculating a raise for Kopecky? Assuming he is signed (please god no) he sure as hell hasn't done anything to justify an INCREASE in pay...maybe I'm missing a league mandate here?

Because he's still being paid peanuts. It's not like I've seen anyone give him 1 million. He's reasonably decent for his salary and role. It would be nice to see him learn to kill penalties so he's a little more useful though.

[Mors 201]

Because he's still being paid peanuts. It's not like I've seen anyone give him 1 million. He's reasonably decent for his salary and role. It would be nice to see him learn to kill penalties so he's a little more useful though.

$500k isn't peanuts for a guy with 32 points in 183 games.

[therock48880 14]

Technically, the Wings can sign Hossa and go over the cap. The Ducks have done it and so have the Devils. I believe they can go 10% over the cap, which would be about 5.7 million over, as long as they are able to be cap compliant by the time the regular season starts. So, I believe they were about 400K under, according to someone's post above, plus I think it's safe to add Lilja's salary to that number. If he's healthy, he will be traded (imo) and if he's not he ends up on LTIR. So, that makes 1.65 million of cap room. If Hossa signs for a 4 million dollar hit, the Wings would have to trim 2.35 million by opening night. There would still need to be a trade of some sort and I still believe that person is Fillpula. That would leave them a little wiggle room under the cap throughout the year for injuries.

[MadMan Mark 0]

I'm surprised by the number of fans who do not want Hossa back. He put up 40 goals and, yes, he disappeared in the Finals. However, the amount we would have to pay is a much smaller cap hit than previously thought. Also, zombo posted it best when you have to look beyond this first year. The Wings will have $10M+ available next year with the termination of contracts from Lidstrom, Holmstrom, and Maltby. I don't know what the structure of NHL contracts can look like, but perhaps Hossa takes a small salary for 09-10, a large signing bonus that gets spread out as part of the cap hit over the life of the contract, and then his salary increases for next year.

Ask yourself this, will Hudler put up 40 goals in a season? I don't think so, and if he gets an inflated offer from some other team, take the compensation. I like Huds, but I prefer Hossa's production and defensive work.

The D is signed for next year. Lilja may have lingering effects and not even be part of the plan. Ericsson has proven what he can do and Meech is an adequate band-aid at under $500K.

I'm already picturing this in my head, so join me. . .

Lidstrom hoists the Cup in June 2010 and calls it a career.

[StevieY9802 6]

Regardless, there will be more wiggle room in 10/11 to regain that depth or at least start re-building it with younger cheaper players. Even if some vets, like Homer, come back, they will be cheaper contracts, etc. etc.

I said that a year ago. This summer was going to be their toughest in terms of getting guys signed and staying under the cap. Next year with all those contracts expiring and all of them probably taking less or retiring the Wings have a much brighter picture there. It's gonna be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks.

[dallas27 7]

For the "he disappears in the playoffs" people; In both 98 games games played in the playoffs, Hossa has 13 more points (76) than Datsyuk (63).

I find it amazing how an offer of *4 million* for one of the best players in the game sends people running for the hills. Do you honestly think Mr. Holland would do something to this team that would hurt their depth and chances at winning the cup? I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Holland talked the NHL to raising the cap 4 million.

You can sit there and argue that he disappeared all you want, the guy had someone up his ass every shift, but besides Ovechkin you can argue Hossa is the purest goal scorer in the NHL.

[MadMan Mark 0]

dallas - I want the guy on the Wings. At $4M/yr cap hit, he is a steal. . . and he will be a Wing for life, if it works out as many of us think (and hope).

Don't discount the emotion factor for this upcoming year. It very well may be Lidstrom's swan song. Couple that with young desire in Helm, Ericsson, Abdelkader, Leino, and Hossa having one year in the Wings system, and I see no one in the West slowing down the Wings. I don't see any team in the East, as of now, that will hang with a determined, healthy Wings team. IMO, Pitt will not be back in the Finals.

Any help out there. . . can an NHL contract be structured to take less in the first year, spread a signing bonus out over the life of a contract and then give a raise in salary for the second year? If so, a Hossa deal will be done with the amount of $ available next year. . . who knows, maybe Hudler stays too (but I doubt it if Hossa signs.)

[Aussie_Wing 354]

Depth > Hossa.

[Aussie_Wing 354]

For the "he disappears in the playoffs" people; In both 98 games games played in the playoffs, Hossa has 13 more points (76) than Datsyuk (63).

I find it amazing how an offer of *4 million* for one of the best players in the game sends people running for the hills. Do you honestly think Mr. Holland would do something to this team that would hurt their depth and chances at winning the cup? I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Holland talked the NHL to raising the cap 4 million.

You can sit there and argue that he disappeared all you want, the guy had someone up his ass every shift, but besides Ovechkin you can argue Hossa is the purest goal scorer in the NHL.

Awesome, so when next seasons playoffs roll around and he once again gets plenty of attention from the opposition and disappears it's all okay then.

[DreamsofHope 2]

Although I think it is POSSIBLE that Hossa signs for 4 mil... guys it isn't likely. He already took a pay cut to play for us for 7.45 mil, and for him to take a deal playing for 4 mil for the rest of his life... It seems doubtful, and I don't know where everyone got that number. I know Ansar Kahn mentioned it, but that was purely a guess, not based on something Hossa or his Agent, or Holland said was going to happen. So I think we're looking at something more like 5-7 mil. And that is a big hit. Not only are we giving up our depth with Hudler, and Sammy, but we might have to trade away Fil.

This is why I would err on the side of not resigning Hossa. It isn't about lack of desiring him on the team. Sure in a year we'd have 10+ mil, but hopefully 3-5 of that goes towards resigning Lids, and 1.5 goes to resigning Holmstrom, Maltby (You know the team won't let them walk). So really next year we'll have 4.5-6.5 mil. that will need to be used in the future to keep players like Erics and Helm. And yes we might still have team depth to come in and replace, but we don't currently have another Hudler in the system...

And finally, do I think Holland would do something to hurt this team? No! Of course not. But given the cap, and it potentially going down. I don't think he has a choice anymore...

I am willing to admit though that he and everyone else in the wings organization are a LOT smarter than me. And no matter what happens I'm willing to be surprised when it works out better than I had anticipated. This has happened many times (Yzerman and Shanny leaving, Hasek coming out of retirement, signing Pavs, signing Zetterberg, signing Franzen). Just when I think we might be done for I get surprised... So here's to Holland.

[therock48880 14]

For the "he disappears in the playoffs" people; In both 98 games games played in the playoffs, Hossa has 13 more points (76) than Datsyuk (63).

I find it amazing how an offer of *4 million* for one of the best players in the game sends people running for the hills. Do you honestly think Mr. Holland would do something to this team that would hurt their depth and chances at winning the cup? I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Holland talked the NHL to raising the cap 4 million.

You can sit there and argue that he disappeared all you want, the guy had someone up his ass every shift, but besides Ovechkin you can argue Hossa is the purest goal scorer in the NHL.

Best post I've read all day. ANYONE would love to have Hossa and a 4 million cap hit. Hell, I bet they'd all want him with a 4.5 million cap hit also.

Dats: 6.7

z: 6.083

Hossa: 4.0

Franzen: 3.95

Flip: 3.0

Cleary: 2.8

Draper: 1.583

Leino: 1

Maltby: .883

Kopecky: .550

Helm: .600

Holmstrom: 2.25

Lids: 7.45

Rafalski: 6

Stuart: 3.75

Kronwall: 3

Ericsson: .900

Lebda: .650

Meech: .483

Ozzie: 1.417

Howard: .717

Total 57.87 million

In this scenario, a guy like Meech becomes very valuable since he can fill in at forward and d.

Players lost:

Lilja

Hudler

Sammy

Players gained (full time for the regular season)

Helm

Leino

Ericsson

[Z Winged Dangler 2,082]

FORWARDS

Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000

Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333

Johan Franzen $3,954,545

Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000

Daniel Cleary $2,800,000

Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000

Kris Draper $1,583,333

Ville Leino $1,100,000

Kirk Maltby $883,333

Justin Abdelkader $850,000

Tomas Kopecky $650,000

Darren Helm $599,444

Aaron Downey $500,000

DEFENSEMEN

Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000

Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000

Brad Stuart $3,750,000

Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000

Andreas Lilja $1,250,000

Jonathan Ericsson $900,000

Brett Lebda $650,000

Derek Meech $483,333

GOALTENDERS

Chris Osgood $1,416,666

Jimmy Howard $716,666

ROSTER SIZE 23

SALARY CAP $57,000,000

PAYROLL $56,570,653

BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0.2% of cap) $110,000

CAP ROOM $429,347

This is the best I can come up with. I was a little optimistic and move the cap up to $57M. I'm not quite sure how to add a MIN of $4M to get Hossa it w/o losing a key piece!!

the cap hit is different from the player salary. the cap hit is based on the average salary per year.

if you could make a list with the "cap hit" of each player, it would indicate that if hossa signs for a "cap hit" of 4 mil/year, th e wings would be able to afford him.

some of those guys are also in the minors

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

the cap hit is different from the player salary. the cap hit is based on the average salary per year.

if you could make a list with the "cap hit" of each player, it would indicate that if hossa signs for a "cap hit" of 4 mil/year, th e wings would be able to afford him.

some of those guys are also in the minors

You are right, cap hit is different from salary. The numbers I used were from capgeek.com. The numbers they used were cap hit. Some of these guys were in the minors. Now it is time for them to step up into the NHL. The numbers used are the cap hit that they would bring. The Wings can't sign Hossa with a cap hit of $4M, as the salary cap stands now without shedding some salary so they can fill out their roster.

Edited June 25, 2009 by LIDDYGIBBY5

[Zetts 236]

For the "he disappears in the playoffs" people; In both 98 games games played in the playoffs, Hossa has 13 more points (76) than Datsyuk (63).

I find it amazing how an offer of *4 million* for one of the best players in the game sends people running for the hills. Do you honestly think Mr. Holland would do something to this team that would hurt their depth and chances at winning the cup? I wouldn't be surprised if Mr. Holland talked the NHL to raising the cap 4 million.

You can sit there and argue that he disappeared all you want, the guy had someone up his ass every shift, but besides Ovechkin you can argue Hossa is the purest goal scorer in the NHL.

Hossa has also been healthy in the playoffs. And isn't as good defensively. And even if you were to say that Datsyuk chokes in the playoffs (which I'm not saying/don't want to get into) how would that justify signing another playoff choker.

Honestly, I could live with a $4 million Hossa. But "lucrative" to me does not mean 4 million, which is what this thread is about. The 4 million dollar speculation was a different thread, and one which I'm inclined not to believe.

And you seem to look at this as though it's just passing up a great player. It's not. It's passing up a great player for depth. We already have our stars, all of whom I would rather have than Hossa.

As far as "having someone up his ass every shift", welcome to the playoffs. What a terrible excuse.

Edit: I almost forgot about the part that I disagreed with most. Hossa is not even close to the second best goal scorer in the league.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Zetts

[StevieY9802 6]

Any help out there. . . can an NHL contract be structured to take less in the first year, spread a signing bonus out over the life of a contract and then give a raise in salary for the second year? If so, a Hossa deal will be done with the amount of $ available next year. . . who knows, maybe Hudler stays too (but I doubt it if Hossa signs.)

It doesn't matter signing bonuses or whatever. Its the average of the total amount of the contract, bonuses included. So it doesn't matter how much he's getting per year in the terms of the deal or any signing bonuses. He could make 1mil in the first year and 5mil per year for the next 9 and his cap number would be 4.6mil for all 10 years.

[therock48880 14]

Honestly, I could live with a $4 million Hossa. But "lucrative" to me does not mean 4 million, which is what this thread is about.

40 million dollars is pretty lucrative. The majority of that 40 million would come in the first 6-7 years.

[Zetts 236]

40 million dollars is pretty lucrative. The majority of that 40 million would come in the first 6-7 years.

Not so much for Hossa, it's really not.

But...where did you get 40 million from? I don't recall hearing about the deal being 10 years, either at a 4 million cap hit or any other number. Is that just speculation?

Edit: For comparison I think the Oiler's offer last year was something like 9 years, 87 million. That's why to me 40 million (wherever that came from) is not lucrative.

Edited June 25, 2009 by Zetts

[BlakKy 58]

I'm guessing that if his cap hit is 4 million dollars the contract will be structured in a way that once he turns 36 he will be making just over a million dollars each season so the wings can buy the contract out if they so desire.

[dallas27 7]

Hossa has also been healthy in the playoffs. And isn't as good defensively. And even if you were to say that Datsyuk chokes in the playoffs (which I'm not saying/don't want to get into) how would that justify signing another playoff choker.

Well...I would imagine it would be hard to be just as good defensively as the Selke winner. You could also tell Hossa was playing hurt, granted it wasn't a broken foot, but you could still see him lingering.

Honestly, I could live with a $4 million Hossa. But "lucrative" to me does not mean 4 million, which is what this thread is about. The 4 million dollar speculation was a different thread, and one which I'm inclined not to believe.

And you seem to look at this as though it's just passing up a great player. It's not. It's passing up a great player for depth. We already have our stars, all of whom I would rather have than Hossa.

I wouldn't go anymore than 4 million. You aren't sacrificing that much depth if you really look at it; someone is gonna make Hudler an offer the Red Wings can not match, hello draft picks. Sammy is going to make more money somewhere else, and while he scores some timely goal(s) in the playoffs I can live without him. It all boils down to Valterri Flippula. You're losing Valterri Flippula for Marian Hossa. Why would anyone not do that?

As far as "having someone up his ass every shift", welcome to the playoffs. What a terrible excuse.

So can that same excuse be applied to Hank?

Edit: I almost forgot about the part that I disagreed with most. Hossa is not even close to the second best goal scorer in the league.

I didn't say he was. I said you can argue. I will say he is one of the purest goal scorers in the NHL.

[dallas27 7]

Awesome, so when next seasons playoffs roll around and he once again gets plenty of attention from the opposition and disappears it's all okay then.

Really, ? Are we 15 year old girls? No argument? Other than the hey, I can look cool and sarcastic at the same time with some emocations.

Bottom line is $4 million for Hossa is highway robbery. I wouldn't go anything higher than that because I will agree depth is more important. But for $4 million and all you have to do is trade Filppula and make it easy on yourself for the cap? Hell, you don't even have to trade Filppula. Make Maltby retire and trade Lilja.

At least Zetts made an effort to make counterpoints. And as I already responded to his post, you can take a look at that one.

[titanium2 867]

Bottom line is $4 million for Hossa is highway robbery. I wouldn't go anything higher than that because I will agree depth is more important. But for $4 million and all you have to do is trade Filppula and make it easy on yourself for the cap? Hell, you don't even have to trade Filppula. Make Maltby retire and trade Lilja.

You don't even have to do all that. The Wings have a cap space of 3.17 mil right? If he agrees to a 4 mil cap hit, they could just drop Meech and Lebda.

I'd take a 4mil Hossa over a 3mil Huds+Lebda+Meech, again, if it's possible.

Also, for those who worry about depth in case of injuries, I thought the Wings are filled with players who play on one line but deserve a notch higher in terms of minutes. Filppula played like 14-16 minutes a game this past season right? He's supposed to be the 2nd line center. I'm sure he'll love having to double shift between the 2nd and 3rd line in case of injury. It's only the Drapers and Maltbys that you can't double shift.