Wings to trade one defenseman

[eva unit zero 271]

I remember Stuart wanting a longer term contract so that he would have some security for his family and so that they wouldn't be moving all over the place. I doubt Stuart would wave his no trade clause and I wouldn't want him too. He was our second best defenseman in the playoffs, the best when Lids was out.

Stuart had a few good games in the Anaheim series, and looked like s*** the rest of the playoffs. Overall, from Game 1 vs Columbus to Game 7 vs Pittsburgh, he was the worst defenseman on the team.

If they can get Stuart to waive his no-trade clause and get a decent pick and/or decent prospect for him that's excellent. Out of conference is preferred, if it's within conference, obviously out-of-division is preferred (and also probably preferred by Stuart) but as long as he accepts the trade, that's the important thing.

Stuart to Phoenix for Summers would be ideal, but the likelihood is questionable. I'll take whatever pick or prospect we can get for him because the cap space is the important thing here.

[The Big Red Machine 0]

Stuart had a few good games in the Anaheim series, and looked like s*** the rest of the playoffs. Overall, from Game 1 vs Columbus to Game 7 vs Pittsburgh, he was the worst defenseman on the team.

If they can get Stuart to waive his no-trade clause and get a decent pick and/or decent prospect for him that's excellent. Out of conference is preferred, if it's within conference, obviously out-of-division is preferred (and also probably preferred by Stuart) but as long as he accepts the trade, that's the important thing.

Stuart to Phoenix for Summers would be ideal, but the likelihood is questionable. I'll take whatever pick or prospect we can get for him because the cap space is the important thing here.

I can guarantee you that Stuart is not going to waive his NTC to go to Phoenix. I don't think any player in the league is dumb enough to do that.

Take a look back at the Chicago series. Stuart was arguably the best defenseman in that series and stepped it up big time when Lidstrom went down with his injury. If you take Game #7 from the SCF out of the picture, Stuart was one of the best defenseman for the Wings during the playoffs.

[diehardredwing19 11]

ok enough with this Stuart hating, he had a bad game 7 but didnt the rest of the team? i mean yea he made a bad play that lead to talbots first goal, but thats hockey you cant just judge him off that one play, he was arguebly one of the best dman for Detroit throughout the playoffs, esp. in chicago series when lids went down and in anaheim series when rafalski missed almost the whole series, he was a freakin horse, and thruout the playoffs i thought he had some big hits also, Stuart is not going anywhere he knows the system now and is young n has good expeirence with our club now

[russianswede919293 95]

Honestly I doubt Meech would be traded to make room under cap and get to 7 defenceman. Lebda has the bigger cap hit, and if Lilja is healthy neither will be playing. Thus Lebda having a bigger cap hit makes him more likely to be traded to clear cap space.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Stuart had a few good games in the Anaheim series, and looked like s*** the rest of the playoffs. Overall, from Game 1 vs Columbus to Game 7 vs Pittsburgh, he was the worst defenseman on the team.

Lebda easily takes the distinction. Terrible pinches that led to critical goals against were his forte; notably, Game 4 against Columbus and Game 6 versus Pittsburgh.

Stuart had a good playoffs. I'd say Kronwall was the weaker of the pair for much of them, although he seemed to get better as they went along.

[Snazzy 0]

Meech isn't going anywhere. He's our 13th forward and our 7th D-man. A great body to fill in at any spot for his salary. He holds more value to the team than some of you think. Lilja will probably be the one out.

[JPT 26]

Stuart was definitely one of our best defensemen in the playoffs but his gaffe's in SCF game 7 were atrocious....

Its either Lilja or Lebda being moved and I suspect it will be Lebda. Lilja played very well last year and logged important PK minutes and brought size and some toughness. He's come a long way and I hope he recovers to play on our 3rd D pair next year.

I honestly don't know what to make of Kronwall. He has great upside - smooth skater, good shot, good passer, big hits from time to time. However he makes some boneheaded plays and takes some bad penalties. He should have outgrown these by now...

[stevkrause 1,247]

I personally would rather them move Ledba for a few reasons:

- we would get more in return, as he is more "proven" in the NHL sense

- we'd get a little more cap relief than if we moved Meech

- Meech showed that he can be competent in a swing role at forward in a pinch and in this cap world, I think swing players serve a lot of use for that "extra" roster player

[stevkrause 1,247]

Meech isn't going anywhere. He's our 13th forward and our 7th D-man. A great body to fill in at any spot for his salary. He holds more value to the team than some of you think. Lilja will probably be the one out.

there's no way Lilja gets moved... he will either be LTIR'd or play here for a couple reasons - he is more valuable and would be an AMAZING pairing with E AND no team is going to trade anything even NEAR his value coming off of that concussion until he's proven he's healthy, so we'd get fleeced

[Dimaline312000 51]

I hate to think of it but I'd have to say bye to Lebda..... Just as lon as they don't do what they did last year and just release a D-man like they did Quincey. Hopefull we'll be able to get something for whoever Holland decides to let go.

[darvesh88 8]

If Lilja gets better, Lebda is out. Meech has small salary and can sub as forward/defense so we need him. Where Lebda isn't really needed if you have a healthy Lilja. Lilja can throw the hits, get in scrums and block the shots. Where Lebda can make the passes, and has a offensive flare with his speed. The wings don't need another offensive defenseman, already have 3 we need a couple reliable stay at home Defenseman. However is Lilja remains on LTIR then his salary doesn't count against the cap so we can keep all 3 D till Lilja is fully healthy and ready to play.

Edited June 30, 2009 by darvesh88

[MsRedWingFan 0]

True. But imo, Stuart would be the most likely player with a NTC to waive it. I think if the right team stepped up with a deal, he would take it. Since the day he was brought in, I always thought his stay would be brief.

I highly doubt that will happen ... I could see him waiving it only for maybe San Jose (Cali teams))

ok enough with this Stuart hating, he had a bad game 7 but didnt the rest of the team? i mean yea he made a bad play that lead to talbots first goal, but thats hockey you cant just judge him off that one play, he was arguebly one of the best dman for Detroit throughout the playoffs, esp. in chicago series when lids went down and in anaheim series when rafalski missed almost the whole series, he was a freakin horse, and thruout the playoffs i thought he had some big hits also, Stuart is not going anywhere he knows the system now and is young n has good expeirence with our club now

I agree with you diehard ... Stuart was great in the playoffs and during the regular season. One or two mistakes shouldn't count against his entire play for the Wings. Some of these "arm chair coaches" sure don't seem to know much about it.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

Stuart is 29 for God sakes .. He'd easily be a #1 defender on any other NHL team

Kronwall is 28 .. These guys are coming to their prime .. they are the future of this team.

I honestly think Lidstrom will hang them up after this season and thats were you are going to need rafalski/kronwall and Stuart. No need to get rid of these guys for a short term fix cuz once the "Perfect Human Being" retires were f'd in the A.

Someone said it best "Meech is a 7th d man and a 13th forward" thats awesome he can assume 2 cap hits in to one tiny fraction.

Lebda is expandable.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

there's no way Lilja gets moved... he will either be LTIR'd or play here for a couple reasons - he is more valuable and would be an AMAZING pairing with E AND no team is going to trade anything even NEAR his value coming off of that concussion until he's proven he's healthy, so we'd get fleeced

Holy s*** I hope it works out that way..

Lilja - Ericsson .. wow

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Here's how I think it will go:

--If Lilja is healthy and we're up against the cap: Lebda and possibly Meech are gone

--If Lilja is healthy and we're not up against the cap: Meech is gone (his defense/forward status isn't as important)

--If Lilja isn't healthy: Meech is gone (no cap room to hold onto him, Lebda becomes too valuable to dump)

Lebda's amazingly cheap contract makes dumping him a hard choice for Holland. It's nearly impossible to get a d-man with his experience for less than $700k. Lebda's contract makes him attractive to other teams, even in light of his relatively small upside. He's one of the best deals in the league for a depth defenseman.

Lilja will be very hard to unload if he's still hurt. Odds are the Wings will try and hold onto him if there's hope he can get healthy in the near future. The problem is how they can have the extra million in cap space sitting around waiting for his return. If they only have enough space to bridge the difference in salary between Lilja and Lebda the Wings are put in a very tough place. It would be nearly impossible to get a return for Lebda when other teams know the Wings have no choice but to dump him.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

rafs did have a fractured vertebrae I mean i definitely wanted to punch him in the face after he let staal walk in shorthanded and watched ozzy choke on a poke check attempt, but he's been a great player and when he's healthy again will be our #2 best D man again.

Rafalski was horrible against the Hawks and the Pens. For me, he was our goat this year until I read about his back injury. I can't really be that mad at him for his poor skating given he should've been in rehab, not on the ice.

The fact that Babcock would switch Rafalski out for Ericsson after Brian made a goof midgame in the finals told us he must have been injured. Babs is usually pretty forgiving when an elite player screws up- he pretty much counts on that player to be self motivated to make up for it within the game itself. Bailing on a player by dropping him down the pairings tells you right off the bat he must not be healthy (at least when it comes to Babs).

[darvesh88 8]

Holy s*** I hope it works out that way..

Lilja - Ericsson .. wow

Lilja - Ericsson sounds like a good future pairing but for now, I think it would be better and more balanced if the d-pairings were:

Lidstrom Ericsson (Ericsson played excellent beside Lidstrom then he did beside Lebda, also Big E can learn alot from Nick while he can, and the mix of Nick's positional defensive style with a mix of Big E's checking defensive style will be more balanced and I've noticed were Nick is too slow or sometimes looks vulnerable, Ericsson's speed covers that nicely)

Rafalski Kronwall: Stable at offense, excellent at defense and Rafi gets caught piching kronwall has the speed to catch up.

Stuart Lilja: While Lilja is a good D-man, He can learn a lot from stuart, accept giving the puck away in a SCF Game 7 he doesnt need to learn that lol.

The D pairings like this are just more stable on offense and defense, instead of putting all our best players together splitting them up makes the whole team better. Kind of like Dats and Z are often on seperate lines now and harder for the oppositon to matchup against a specific line.

[PROBIE4PREZ 58]

good point by putting Big E with Lids but shifting Stuart (3.75) down to the 3rd pairing is not going to work .. itll work but come on now 3.75 for 10mins a game ..jesus might as well pick up Penner and stick him on the 4th line .. oh wait that happend ha

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Stuart is 29 for God sakes .. He'd easily be a #1 defender on any other NHL team

Kronwall is 28 .. These guys are coming to their prime .. they are the future of this team.

I honestly think Lidstrom will hang them up after this season and thats were you are going to need rafalski/kronwall and Stuart. No need to get rid of these guys for a short term fix cuz once the "Perfect Human Being" retires were f'd in the A.

Someone said it best "Meech is a 7th d man and a 13th forward" thats awesome he can assume 2 cap hits in to one tiny fraction.

Lebda is expandable.

Huh? That's pretty crazy. He'd be on the top pairing in some other cities, and certainly in the top 4 anywhere in the league, but #1 d-man? Not a chance.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Lilja - Ericsson sounds like a good future pairing but for now, I think it would be better and more balanced if the d-pairings were:

Lidstrom Ericsson (Ericsson played excellent beside Lidstrom then he did beside Lebda, also Big E can learn alot from Nick while he can, and the mix of Nick's positional defensive style with a mix of Big E's checking defensive style will be more balanced and I've noticed were Nick is too slow or sometimes looks vulnerable, Ericsson's speed covers that nicely)

Rafalski Kronwall: Stable at offense, excellent at defense and Rafi gets caught piching kronwall has the speed to catch up.

Stuart Lilja: While Lilja is a good D-man, He can learn a lot from stuart, accept giving the puck away in a SCF Game 7 he doesnt need to learn that lol.

The D pairings like this are just more stable on offense and defense, instead of putting all our best players together splitting them up makes the whole team better. Kind of like Dats and Z are often on seperate lines now and harder for the oppositon to matchup against a specific line.

Honestly, I'd prefer to have Ericsson play as many minutes with Lidstrom as he can before Lids retires. Same goes for Kronwall. Kronwall had a brutal playoffs, and defensively he had a brutal year. Ideally, I'd like to see Kronwall get some more time with Lidstrom before Lids retires, but at this point I think it's more crucial to get Ericsson as much Lidstrom time as he can get.

The 'problem' lays in how deep this team is at defense. It's hard to justify to Rafalski and Stuart why they're getting fewer minutes and Ericsson's getting more than them, even as a rookie. Although I suppose you could just point out to them that Ericsson outplayed both of them in the playoffs (although Rafalski was injured).

good point by putting Big E with Lids but shifting Stuart (3.75) down to the 3rd pairing is not going to work .. itll work but come on now 3.75 for 10mins a game ..jesus might as well pick up Penner and stick him on the 4th line .. oh wait that happend ha

I don't really care how much he's making, the pairings should be about what's best for the team. The tougher argument here is whether this move would be detrimental to morale. Stuart's going to be a more valuable piece when Lidstrom retires than he is right now.

Here's what I'd like to see:

Even Strength

Lidstrom Ericsson (note that the top pairing had more balanced minutes compared to the 2nd pairing this season)

Rafalski Kronwall

Stuart Lilja

Power Play

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Ericsson (or possibly Stuart, but I'd like to see Big Rig get some PP time, now that we're short on Right handed shots all bets are off for the second pp)

Penalty Kill

Lidstrom Lilja

Kronwall Stuart (with Ericsson switched in for Kronwall depending on how well Kroner is playing defensively)

I know this is Ericsson heavy, and you all probably expect that given how much I like him, but my logic here was to maximize Big Rig's chances to learn from the better d-men on this team. Plus, I've based these pairings on how well the respective players played in the playoffs this year.

Ericsson needs as many mins as they can give him to develop, he's already walking in at age 25, there's no time to slow-track him (and no need to, as his play this postseason showed).

[Johnny Diamonds 25]

Does Brad Stuart have a no trade clause? He could be a key piece in a trade to a team trying to trim salary. Not every team can afford to spend to the cap ceiling in these tough economic times. His salary + the 3.5 million the Wings have could fetch a handful of quality players.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Does Brad Stuart have a no trade clause? He could be a key piece in a trade to a team trying to trim salary. Not every team can afford to spend to the cap ceiling in these tough economic times. His salary + the 3.5 million the Wings have could fetch a handful of quality players.

Yes, Stuart has a no trade clause.

[LIDDYGIBBY5 1]

I have trouble seeing Meech being traded this season for one reason. He is cheap as hell. You don't trade away a player with one of the lowest cap hits in the league when you have cap issues to make room. The cap space that he would open up wouldn't be enough to do anything with.

[YoungGuns1340 1]

I have trouble seeing Meech being traded this season for one reason. He is cheap as hell. You don't trade away a player with one of the lowest cap hits in the league when you have cap issues to make room. The cap space that he would open up wouldn't be enough to do anything with.

Then why would you use that justification for Lebda?

The difference between Meech and Lebda is only 167k, but the difference between experience and ability is much bigger than that. Lebda is slightly better than Meech at - literally - everything. The only way Meech sticks around is if we are so hard up for cap space that we need to keep Meech for his versatility.

The issue here is more likely the fact that we have 8 defenseman signed, not an issue of cap space.

Edited July 1, 2009 by YoungGuns1340

[Dominator2005 558]

Then why would you use that justification for Lebda?

The difference between Meech and Lebda is only 167k, but the difference between experience and ability is much bigger than that. Lebda is slightly better than Meech at - literally - everything. The only way Meech sticks around is if we are so hard up for cap space that we need to keep Meech for his versatility.

The issue here is more likely the fact that we have 8 defenseman signed, not an issue of cap space.

True - only reason why I would rather keep Meech instead of Lebda is his versatility "playing" forward when needed...