ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted July 3, 2009 Fil's game can be projected on a line graph at this point. There is no indication that he won't continue to improve. Every season he has continued to make slight improvements. Now that the management will be trusting him with top 6 minutes he will be in a position to put up top 6 points. Is that so? I suppose thats why he went from 19 goals in 08 to 12 in 09. Though he had more points, it was by four. We're not guaranteed anything when it comes to players having rebound seasons. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BlakKy 58 Report post Posted July 3, 2009 Is that so? I suppose thats why he went from 19 goals in 08 to 12 in 09. Though he had more points, it was by four. We're not guaranteed anything when it comes to players having rebound seasons. SH% He just needs to shoot more. His shooting percentage is pretty enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,975 Report post Posted July 3, 2009 Leino also had only 15 goals in 57 games played in GR. You're saying it'd be okay if he JUST nets 25. COME ON! Only nets 25??? Hey, I love the guy too and someday he'll blossom into a star player, but don't go into next season expecting 25 from him yet. You gotta have realistic expectations. Helm I think is good for 15, but how the heck do you think Moen will "be good for 10-15" when he's only scored 10 ONCE in his whole career??? And you're also "assuming" that Filppula will for sure rebound from a pretty dreadful season. As I said before, everyone is assuming waaaaaay too much, including Kenny. What if these kids DON'T have these stellar seasons that you all are expecting them to have? What if Homer and Fil and Draper DON'T rebound from bad seasons? What happens then? THIS is what has me scared. Nothing good ever comes from just "assuming" things will be fine. Well geez Debbie Downer! If we never assume things will get better then what is there to look forward to? Geez, lets go and get Yzerman and Shanahan and Fedorov and Larionov back. Hey if you go to sleep tonight, you are doing so assuming your are going to wake up. Ask Mr. Mays about that! (no offense to Billy, may he RIP) but there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee Zetterberg won't tank this season. Or Osgood won't have another season like last regualr season. There are no guarantees, just hope and trust. TRUST the fact that Kenny and his boys know or knew what they were doing when they drafted and signed all these youngsters and HOPE that it all works out! Like it or not, the "CORE" isn't getting any younger... YOUTH GONE WILD! Oh, and if Moen gets PP time and maybe 2nd line minutes once in a while, he could easily score 10-15 playing for the Wings... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Well geez Debbie Downer! If we never assume things will get better then what is there to look forward to? Geez, lets go and get Yzerman and Shanahan and Fedorov and Larionov back. Hey if you go to sleep tonight, you are doing so assuming your are going to wake up. Ask Mr. Mays about that! (no offense to Billy, may he RIP) but there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee Zetterberg won't tank this season. Or Osgood won't have another season like last regualr season. There are no guarantees, just hope and trust. TRUST the fact that Kenny and his boys know or knew what they were doing when they drafted and signed all these youngsters and HOPE that it all works out! Like it or not, the "CORE" isn't getting any younger... YOUTH GONE WILD! Oh, and if Moen gets PP time and maybe 2nd line minutes once in a while, he could easily score 10-15 playing for the Wings... Please understand I'm not trying to sound like a dick, just merely realistic. If I had to make some positive assumptions on just a FEW aspects of our season next year, that'd be fine. The problem is, you guys are assuming EVERYTHING. You assume that Leino we'll be great, you assume that Helm will be great, you assume that Abs will be great, you assume that Fil will rebound, you assume that Homer will rebound, you assume that Draper will rebound, you assume we'll sign Moen and he'll instantly become a 10+ goal scorer. You see my problem? If we just needed to assume a few of those things, I'd have a positive outlook. But base our whole damn season on assumption that could easily go either way is crazy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyphoenix 153 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I think when you can look at Helm and Leino play and say that they would be regulars on any other team, you can pretty much assume they will play their roles. Leino pushed to be on the team for this season and now that he will be, I highly doubt he will do anything less than score 20+ goals. These players ARE ready to play at the NHL level and provide like we need them to. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I think when you can look at Helm and Leino play and say that they would be regulars on any other team, you can pretty much assume they will play their roles. Leino pushed to be on the team for this season and now that he will be, I highly doubt he will do anything less than score 20+ goals. These players ARE ready to play at the NHL level and provide like we need them to. I hope you're right. If these guys don't score 20 goals each, its gonna hurt. It's just hard to imagine someone who scored 15 goals in the minors score more than 20 in his first season in the big leagues. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 In the end, let's just hope for the best. I'd rather invest faith and be disappointed than have little to no faith at all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Well geez Debbie Downer! If we never assume things will get better then what is there to look forward to? Geez, lets go and get Yzerman and Shanahan and Fedorov and Larionov back. Hey if you go to sleep tonight, you are doing so assuming your are going to wake up. Ask Mr. Mays about that! (no offense to Billy, may he RIP) but there is no guarantee. There is no guarantee Zetterberg won't tank this season. Or Osgood won't have another season like last regualr season. There are no guarantees, just hope and trust. TRUST the fact that Kenny and his boys know or knew what they were doing when they drafted and signed all these youngsters and HOPE that it all works out! Like it or not, the "CORE" isn't getting any younger... YOUTH GONE WILD! Oh, and if Moen gets PP time and maybe 2nd line minutes once in a while, he could easily score 10-15 playing for the Wings... For the love of God give the Moan talk a rest... At least until there is even an inkling that he could be signed... And only a fool would want Moan a role playing 4th liner over a young 2nd line scorer like Hudler... Honestly these guys are not even in the same stratosphere as NHL players... Everyone is always talking grit, well Wings made it to the finals back to back with skill sqauds and lost this year to a skill squad... You do not mind if I prefer to trust Holland over you do you? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyphoenix 153 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) I hope you're right. If these guys don't score 20 goals each, its gonna hurt. It's just hard to imagine someone who scored 15 goals in the minors score more than 20 in his first season in the big leagues. To be fair, the last season he was in Finland (before he came here) he scored 28 goals and had 49 assists in 55 games. He could prove to be a 20 goal scorer in the NHL if he has the kind of push he had in Finland. I have high hopes for the guy because he was great back in Finland. Edited July 4, 2009 by skyphoenix Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,975 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I hope you're right. If these guys don't score 20 goals each, its gonna hurt. It's just hard to imagine someone who scored 15 goals in the minors score more than 20 in his first season in the big leagues. It's hard to imagine that he played with anyone in the minors that even remotely compares to playing with the likes of Filppula, Franzen, Zetterberg and Dastyuk, Lidtsrom & Rafalski for an entire 82 game season... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,975 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 For the love of God give the Moan talk a rest... At least until there is even an inkling that he could be signed... And only a fool would want Moan a role playing 4th liner over a young 2nd line scorer like Hudler... Honestly these guys are not even in the same stratosphere as NHL players... Everyone is always talking grit, well Wings made it to the finals back to back with skill sqauds and lost this year to a skill squad... You do not mind if I prefer to trust Holland over you do you? For the Love of Pete, give the Hudler talk a rest! At least Hudler opted for arbitration rahter than sign the very lucritive $2.5M contract... And only a fool would think Hudler is going to be a 2nd line scorer here when MoEn could easily be on the third line before Hudler makes the 2nd. They are in the same stratosphere, what MoEn lacks in scoring he makes up in grit and defense and hitting and winning battles in the corners and in front of the net, NONE of which Hudler can do... Yea, everyone is talking grit, the Wings made it to the finals back to back and lost to skill squad, only because the likes of Anaheim tore them up, Chicago physically punished them and by time they got to Gill and Orpik, they got thrown around like they were ragdolls. All with their grit and checking and winning battles in the corners AND in front of the net. Yeah, Wings are tough, but not tough enough to handles three out of four hard hitting pounding the rock, check fest! Hudler is of NO help in series' like those, and he proved it... And please do trust Holland, tht is what he gets paid for, and when Hudler gets awarded a $3.0m salary, I trust and you can trust Holland will bid him a fond farewell! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 For the Love of Pete, give the Hudler talk a rest! At least Hudler opted for arbitration rahter than sign the very lucritive $2.5M contract... And only a fool would think Hudler is going to be a 2nd line scorer here when MoEn could easily be on the third line before Hudler makes the 2nd. They are in the same stratosphere, what MoEn lacks in scoring he makes up in grit and defense and hitting and winning battles in the corners and in front of the net, NONE of which Hudler can do... Yea, everyone is talking grit, the Wings made it to the finals back to back and lost to skill squad, only because the likes of Anaheim tore them up, Chicago physically punished them and by time they got to Gill and Orpik, they got thrown around like they were ragdolls. All with their grit and checking and winning battles in the corners AND in front of the net. Yeah, Wings are tough, but not tough enough to handles three out of four hard hitting pounding the rock, check fest! Hudler is of NO help in series' like those, and he proved it... And please do trust Holland, tht is what he gets paid for, and when Hudler gets awarded a $3.0m salary, I trust and you can trust Holland will bid him a fond farewell! Yes I see so many teams banging down Moan's door to pay him in excess of 2.5 mil... If Hudler was UFA vs being a RFA he would have a 3 to 4 mil offer from some team by now... The thing is he doesn't want to leave Detroit and teams I can understand would be standoffish to paying 3.013 Mil+ and losing a 1st and a 3rd... The real issue here is that the Wings do not have the cap room for him to be paid 3+ Mil, he will probably get that in arbitration, so its a bigger issue to see if the team can work something out with him before arbitration... And yes I am ready to see Huds get full top 2 line ice time... If he gets to arbitration and gets awarded more then the Wings can pay then yes they have to move him, or they will have to move a vet... Most importantly Hudler is 25 with a 57 pt season behind him and all expectations of improving off that... I doubt Hudler ever tops out over 35g's at any point in his career, but a a young forward with 70 pt potential is a completely different beast then a 4th line grinder... Honestly I would rather see Abie get playing time with the Wings then a Moan... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,975 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Yes I see so many teams banging down Moan's door to pay him in excess of 2.5 mil... If Hudler was UFA vs being a RFA he would have a 3 to 4 mil offer from some team by now... The thing is he doesn't want to leave Detroit and teams I can understand would be standoffish to paying 3.013 Mil+ and losing a 1st and a 3rd... The real issue here is that the Wings do not have the cap room for him to be paid 3+ Mil, he will probably get that in arbitration, so its a bigger issue to see if the team can work something out with him before arbitration... And yes I am ready to see Huds get full top 2 line ice time... If he gets to arbitration and gets awarded more then the Wings can pay then yes they have to move him, or they will have to move a vet... Most importantly Hudler is 25 with a 57 pt season behind him and all expectations of improving off that... I doubt Hudler ever tops out over 35g's at any point in his career, but a a young forward with 70 pt potential is a completely different beast then a 4th line grinder... Honestly I would rather see Abie get playing time with the Wings then a Moan... That is why I would only offer Moen $1.25 or $1.5. If he gets more somewhere else good on him! Same reason Hudler shouldve jumped at Hollands (alleged) $2.5M offer. Now He will go to arbitration, WIN, get a $3.0M award and get released because Holland cannot pay him $3.0M Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtomicPunk 296 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Why do I see Travis Moen's name in people's line combinations? Have the Wings signed him? People, let's deal with some form of reality, OK? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LeftWinger 4,975 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Why do I see Travis Moen's name in people's line combinations? Have the Wings signed him? People, let's deal with some form of reality, OK? Therer are a lot of Hudler sightings in those line combos too! As was Sammy, and Hossa & Joe UFA. People like to put line combos together and include the player that they would love to see Holland sign. We can always do this: Cleary - Zetterberg - Datsyuk Franzen - Filppula - Holmstrom ??? - Helm - ???? Maltby - Draper - ????? ?????? (Meech) Ok, that's better, those are all our signed forwards, man those lines look great! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Therer are a lot of Hudler sightings in those line combos too! As was Sammy, and Hossa & Joe UFA. People like to put line combos together and include the player that they would love to see Holland sign. We can always do this: Cleary - Zetterberg - Datsyuk Franzen - Filppula - Holmstrom ??? - Helm - ???? Maltby - Draper - ????? ?????? (Meech) Ok, that's better, those are all our signed forwards, man those lines look great! Sounds like Leino is a lock... Safe to set him in line combos... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Leino scored 5 goals in 13 games for us, prorate that and its 31 goals over an 82 game season. I have no doubt that Helm could score 15-20 in 82 games as well. If we sign Moen there is another 10-15 playing with Helm or being a big body on the PP. Even if Leino only nets 25 that is still 51 goals on the lower estimate for these guys (OK, Moen isn't signed yet, YET, but even Abby could possibly net 10) Expect increases from Zetterberg and Datyuk when they reunite and you can give Cleary a few more playing with them. Franzen and Filppula should breakout even more. Sooner or later (with the cap it's looking like sooner) the kids are going to be here. They are ready, we are ALL ready. Youth Gone Wild! pretty much exactly what i was thinking. holland wouldn't say abby's ready if he wasn't. that's not his style, and we all know it. and he proved that his worth to the team is greater than the likes of many that are on the team. and like you said, with the cap, there's gonna be less of a waiting period to be a wing for some guys. and abby is a good kid that works hard. i'd love to see him on the wings full time next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wingseroo 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I am actually all about a Leino-Helm-Abdelkader line... The Griffins Line... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Therer are a lot of Hudler sightings in those line combos too! As was Sammy, and Hossa & Joe UFA. People like to put line combos together and include the player that they would love to see Holland sign. We can always do this: Cleary - Zetterberg - Datsyuk Franzen - Filppula - Holmstrom ??? - Helm - ???? Maltby - Draper - ????? ?????? (Meech) Ok, that's better, those are all our signed forwards, man those lines look great! when leino signs he'll be on the 2nd line instead of homer's injured ass. he's getting painfully slow and will hopefully retire after this coming season with 4 or 5 cup rings along with draper and malts. no offense to them, but there's not too much left in the tank. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Z Winged Dangler 2,082 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I am actually all about a Leino-Helm-Abdelkader line... The Griffins Line... i love it too, but don't you agree it should be called the "black aces line"? the very sight of that line combo excites me! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedFX 48 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 I am actually all about a Leino-Helm-Abdelkader line... The Griffins Line... They were using that the first 2 SCF games and it worked great. You get those guys together all season long...let them develop as a group...you have a good combo there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ShanahanMan 473 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 (edited) "We'll let the market settle a bit and later in the summer we'll see what cheaper players are out there," Holland said. "Right now, if we start the season, it appears (Abdelkader) will make the team. He's real close to being an NHL player, but we like to get some depth in the organization and create some competition for jobs.'' MLive Edited July 4, 2009 by ShanahanMan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff M 0 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 Ok everyone needs to chill out. Red Wings win games. That's just what we do. ;] So our players will do what they do to win games. So theres no saying "well we need leino to score 50 and" hahahah Just be calm and realize that maybe we won't win games 5-4 or 6-5, but will win them 2-1, 1-0. Because the Wings are dominant. If Datsyuk thinks that their offense isn't as good as last year he will step it up on defense as well will the other guys. A Red Wings team will always be the team that strives to win games. So where Hossa was when he was scoring those 40 goals will be someone else to score or maybe where Hossa or Sammy should have been on defense where the other team scored this years players will be. And it might be fair to say well if they score 10 goals and stop 10 that Sammy alone let in on D on the 2nd PP then that's the same as scoring 20!! Or maybe other guys like Datsyuk and Zetterberg will have more scoring chances because Helm makes a big check. There is so many possibilities that we can't sit here and expect rookies to succeed what are expectations are, but they will give it there all, after all, this could be there only chance to make it for good in the NHL. It's make or break boys. Let's Go Wings! Can't wait to meet Stanley again in '10!!!! Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Statts 4 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 By the Red Wings "over ripe" standards, Gador is not ready IMO. There is just no other option right now. Hope he does well though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204 Report post Posted July 4, 2009 So it looks like it'll be a camp invitee if anything this year. Good luck kid, your the new blood. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
