Lines Next Season?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

W're not going to be as good as we were last year or even the year before. Such is the cap. It's finally catching up to the red wings.

It's partly the cap.

It's partly the fact that Maltby and Holmstrom are running on fumes, Draper as well but to a lesser extent as he has certain skill sets the others don't and his legs still churn.

It's partly the fact that you cannot continue to get shorter and smaller in this league. Players are getting bigger and stronger. It's one thing for a guy like Marty St. Louis to make the league, or even excel. But you can't have a team of 18 St.Louis' and expect success.

IMO, the Wings of next year aren't nearly as good as last year and nowhere near as good as 2 years ago when you factor in age of the veterans.

IMO, we need 2 more big, hard to play against bodies up front. Is it so much to ask for a 6-0, 200 pound guy who plays a physical game.

Instead we have Hudler and we toss out a kid like Helm, who is what, like 5-10, 185 or so and say, go pound on 225 pound dmen all night. Let's see how Helmer does over an 82 game season. Me thinks people are in for a rude awakening if this team doesn't get grittier and bigger.

[eva unit zero 271]

It's partly the cap.

It's partly the fact that Maltby and Holmstrom are running on fumes, Draper as well but to a lesser extent as he has certain skill sets the others don't and his legs still churn.

It's partly the fact that you cannot continue to get shorter and smaller in this league. Players are getting bigger and stronger. It's one thing for a guy like Marty St. Louis to make the league, or even excel. But you can't have a team of 18 St.Louis' and expect success.

IMO, the Wings of next year aren't nearly as good as last year and nowhere near as good as 2 years ago when you factor in age of the veterans.

IMO, we need 2 more big, hard to play against bodies up front. Is it so much to ask for a 6-0, 200 pound guy who plays a physical game.

Instead we have Hudler and we toss out a kid like Helm, who is what, like 5-10, 185 or so and say, go pound on 225 pound dmen all night. Let's see how Helmer does over an 82 game season. Me thinks people are in for a rude awakening if this team doesn't get grittier and bigger.

Well, just look at it this way. All the GMs who come to this board, everyone gets what they wanted. Kopecky and Samuelsson are gone. Samuelsson will probably score 30 goals and 65 points on Vancouver's first line, and Kopecky might score 15 goals if he gets regular 3rd line ice time in Chicago. But never mind that, those useless pieces of s*** are gone.

[ShanahanMan 473]

It's partly the cap.

It's partly the fact that Maltby and Holmstrom are running on fumes, Draper as well but to a lesser extent as he has certain skill sets the others don't and his legs still churn.

It's partly the fact that you cannot continue to get shorter and smaller in this league. Players are getting bigger and stronger. It's one thing for a guy like Marty St. Louis to make the league, or even excel. But you can't have a team of 18 St.Louis' and expect success.

IMO, the Wings of next year aren't nearly as good as last year and nowhere near as good as 2 years ago when you factor in age of the veterans.

IMO, we need 2 more big, hard to play against bodies up front. Is it so much to ask for a 6-0, 200 pound guy who plays a physical game.

Instead we have Hudler and we toss out a kid like Helm, who is what, like 5-10, 185 or so and say, go pound on 225 pound dmen all night. Let's see how Helmer does over an 82 game season. Me thinks people are in for a rude awakening if this team doesn't get grittier and bigger.

Agreed 100%. People simply have unrealistic expectations that all our new kids will instantly become 20+ goal scorers next season and our aging veterans will have a superb rebound year. Hah, doubt it. We need to somehow (its Kenny) pick up a 2nd/3rd line BIG forward and try to sign a 4th line grit guy for cheap. Other wise, we looked pretty boned next season.

[RedFX 48]

I'm less than thrilled.

Matlby, Draper, Holmstrom = injuries and older than dirt. Holmstrom looked like s*** most of the time he was on the ice. Maltby does exactly what these days?

Nice to see Ericsson, Helm, Abby and Leino bring in some fresh legs and youth, that much I like.

I don't like losing 2 of our 200+ pound forwards in Sammy and Hoss and not replacing them with equally big players. The Wings are already the smallest team in the league. Losing Hossa and expecting Hudler to be the 2nd line replacement. Give me a ******* break.

Subtractions

Hossa

Sammy

Conklin

Chelios

Kopecky

Additions

Helm

Abdelkader

Leino

Ericsson

Howard

Factor in aging Holmstrom, Draper and Maltby and a don't know what to expect from Lilja and this isn't a better team than last year.

That's my opinion, feel free to shred it to pieces. Any team that loses Marian Hossa and moves up Jiri Hudler to fill the gap and then tosses in essentially 4 rookies for full time active regular season duty isn't as good a team as it was the year prior.

I'd like to see a move made. I'd like to see us pick up a veteran in his early 30's. Preferably a forward who is over 6 feet tall and over 200 pounds.

And people we skeptical that Datsyuk and Zetterberg could replace Hull, Yzerman, and Shanahan......

Let's give the guy a chance before we raise the White flag shall we?

[Guest GordieSid&Ted]

And people we skeptical that Datsyuk and Zetterberg could replace Hull, Yzerman, and Shanahan......

Let's give the guy a chance before we raise the White flag shall we?

Give a chance for what?

There's no denying that Draper, Matlby and Homer are on the home stretch of their careers. Maltby and Homer looked fairly unimpressive most of the season. Homer and Draper have seen father time do it's work on their health.

Or did you mean give Helm a chance? Look, I love Helm. But it's one thing to jump into the playoffs full of piss and vinegar and bring max energy for 2 months. It's another to try and gear up that kind of emotion for a full 82 game schedule, something Helm has never had to do. I think he's a great kid and he's going to be awesome for us in his role. But i'm not retarded. He's undersized. It's going to be interesting to see how he fares over the long haul of a season trying to pound on guys who outweigh him by 20-40 pounds every night.

Hudler? I'm not as optimistic as Eva. Hudler has the skills of a top flight forward, we've all known that for years. But he's too small and too slow and wholly incapable of doing board work. It's okay to be small if you're fast as hell. You can't be small and slow. Hudler is both. I'm not convinced he's going to be a star on our 2nd line.

The bottom line is we lost a superstar in Hossa. We lost a great backup in Conklin. We lost a 20 goal, big bodied, hard worker and PP specialist in Sammy. And we replaced them with an untested rookie goalie, a rookie like Abdelkader and Hudler moves up to fill in for Hossa?

What exactly am I missing? This is a worse team than a year ago as it stands.

[eva unit zero 271]

where is Rafalski?...

Why do so many posters not realize that Holland is not offering Downey or McCarty a contract? Downey won't be in the top 12, he won't be the 13th forward, and it's unlikely he'll be in Grand Rapids.

Anyways...

Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Cleary

Franzen/Filppula/Hudler

Leino/Abdelkader/Holmstrom

Helm/Draper/Maltby

Lidstrom/Rafalski

Kronwall/Stuart

Ericsson/Lebda (Lilja)

Meech

Osgood

Howard

If Lilja is able to play, it's possible the Wings have to open up some cap space. If not, Lebda makes so much less than Lilja that the Wings will be fine once Lilja returns and Lebda is traded/waived.

[dobbles 252]

Give a chance for what?

There's no denying that Draper, Matlby and Homer are on the home stretch of their careers. Maltby and Homer looked fairly unimpressive most of the season. Homer and Draper have seen father time do it's work on their health.

Or did you mean give Helm a chance? Look, I love Helm. But it's one thing to jump into the playoffs full of piss and vinegar and bring max energy for 2 months. It's another to try and gear up that kind of emotion for a full 82 game schedule, something Helm has never had to do. I think he's a great kid and he's going to be awesome for us in his role. But i'm not retarded. He's undersized. It's going to be interesting to see how he fares over the long haul of a season trying to pound on guys who outweigh him by 20-40 pounds every night.

Hudler? I'm not as optimistic as Eva. Hudler has the skills of a top flight forward, we've all known that for years. But he's too small and too slow and wholly incapable of doing board work. It's okay to be small if you're fast as hell. You can't be small and slow. Hudler is both. I'm not convinced he's going to be a star on our 2nd line.

The bottom line is we lost a superstar in Hossa. We lost a great backup in Conklin. We lost a 20 goal, big bodied, hard worker and PP specialist in Sammy. And we replaced them with an untested rookie goalie, a rookie like Abdelkader and Hudler moves up to fill in for Hossa?

What exactly am I missing? This is a worse team than a year ago as it stands.

it seems the biggest thorn in your side seems to be about losing hossa. but you do remember when we won the cup without him last year right? so if you take that out of the equation, we have essentially lost kopecky and samuelson from that team. kopecky is totally replaceable, and if the wings aren't able to replace a player like samuelson with a guy from the farm, then how is this team supposed to keep being successful? you simultaneously criticize the team for having old useless players AND criticize the young players as inadequate. the team can't be built entirely from FA signings...

i will say i agree the older guys are really starting to be a hindrance to the team. but with maltby and draper, its still hard to find players that can contribute more and make so little money.

[13dangledangle 968]

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Hommer

Hudler-Flip-Franzen

Leino-Helm-Cleary

Abby-Draper-Maltby

These lines look pretty good to me guys even without a "grit guy"

[Z and D for the C 712]

ZDH

Franzen Flip Cleary

Leino Helm ___

Maltby Drapes ___

The thought of that second lines turns me on.

[skacore 2]

Datsyuk Zetterberg Cleary

Leino Franzen Filppula

Abdelkader Helm Holmstrom

Maltby Draper Newbury

Lidstrom Rafalski

Kronwall Stuart

Ericsson Lilja

Meech

Osgood

Howard

I'd like that!

Edited July 7, 2009 by skacore

[titanium2 867]

Datsyuk-Zetterberg-Franzen (The DZF cycle will give you vertigo)

Leino-Filppula-Cleary (Keep it on a string, keep it simple, and Cleary bangs in the junk)

?-Helm-Holmstrom (Helm is going to do a lot of laughing in practice and games)

?-Draper-Maltby (Oh Grind Line...)

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Ericsson-?

?

If Datsyuk and Zetterberg need a break away from each other

Leino-Zetterberg-Franzen

Filppula-Datsyuk-Cleary

If you want great depth down the middle

Franzen-Datsyuk-Holmstrom

Leino-Zetterberg-Cleary

?-Filppula-?

Draper-Helm-Maltby (<--Two goats and a kid?)

[NGKEIB 32]

I'm not sure I agree with the posters who say that if Abdelkader or Helm were to play on the same line as Draper that Draper would be moved to the wing. A. He's the senior. B. He's better at faceoffs. C. Let the kids be more versatile by playing wing too. I also think I'm one of the few who doesn't want to see Abdelkader stagnating on the fourth line next year...

Franzén-Zetterberg-Cleary (top two lines of course subject to change)

Filppula-Datsyuk-Leino/Holmström

Hudler-Helm-Leino/Holmström

Oulahen-Draper-Maltby (while 2/3rds are quite old, and none throw big hits anymore, they will be good at not getting scored on)

Meech (eventual call-ups start with Abdelkader, then Ritola etc.)

Lidström-Rafalski

Kronwall-Stuart

Lebda-Ericsson (can't really predict this one, as I have no idea what is going to happen re Lilja)

Meech (I'd feel more comfortable having someone like Lilja/Lebda as the 7th, and Meech as the 13th/8th, but the cap won't allow it. Maybe Kindl will get a shot...)

Osgood

Howard

PP:

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Holmström-Lidström-Rafalski (for old time's sake)

Franzén-Filppula (upgraded to PP now)-Leino/Cleary-Kronwall-Ericsson/Stuart

PK:

Zetterberg-Cleary; Datsyuk-Franzén; Draper-Maltby; Helm-Oulahen; and obviously work Filppula in somewhere (ahead of the last two pairings, unless it's a faceoff where Draper-Zetterberg can be thrown in)

Lidström-Stuart (unless we keep Lilja); Kronwall-Ericsson (though it might make more sense for Ericsson to go with Lidström, who will help him out more, and keep Kronwall and Stuart together)

While this isn't the best possible line-up, I think it makes the most sense. Abdelkader should only be moved up when he's done developing or when a top 9 spot opens for him where he can get regular minutes. Oulahen is out of options in GR, and while he cleared waivers last year, Detroit prospects have such a reputation that I doubt he'd clear them again. He's a good defensive forward, and could be had for very cheap. Meech can double as a 13th/7th, which will save us even more money, allowing Hudler to be resigned. Lilja either doesn't play due to injury, or is traded. This arrangement also leaves us some wriggle room regarding cap space, so if some needs need to be addressed by the trade deadline, we would be flexible enough to make some changes.

What do you think?

EDIT

Just looking at that 3rd line, Cleary should probably be thrown in the mix, as Hudler and Leino/Holmström aren't too solid defensively.

Edited July 7, 2009 by NGKEIB

[FNCardascia 0]

IF we sign Hudler, I wouldn't mind seeing the lines in the beginning of the year kind of looking like this. It seems kind of screwy with some players playing out of their natural position, but I feel that the first two offensive lines together could truely produce points over the season with the bottom two giving us energy.

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Franzen

Cleary-Holmstrom-Hudler

Leino-Filppula-Draper

Maltby-Helm-Abdelkader

Lidstrom-Rafalski

Kronwall-Lebda

Stewart-Ericsson

I personally think Lilja is done, hence the exclusion.

Howard-Osgood

As ironic as it sounds, this should truly be Howard's year to show us what he has, if he has it. He failed to show it last year with having a 4.10 GAA in just one game. I say give him the start to prove himself, if he doesn't show anything within the first dozen games, his time in the winged wheel is done.

[StevieY9802 6]

W're not going to be as good as we were last year or even the year before. Such is the cap. It's finally catching up to the red wings.

Yeah but next year they will have about 12mil coming off the books while other teams, Blackhawks I'm looking at you, will have big problems when the cap goes down. And this team is still more talented than a lot of teams in the league.

Well, just look at it this way. All the GMs who come to this board, everyone gets what they wanted. Kopecky and Samuelsson are gone. Samuelsson will probably score 30 goals and 65 points on Vancouver's first line, and Kopecky might score 15 goals if he gets regular 3rd line ice time in Chicago. But never mind that, those useless pieces of s*** are gone.

I don't agree with you too often but I agree with you 100% here. All the guys you mentioned got crucified on this board time and time again and how they should be gone. Well people, you got your wish. Now if any of the things you mentioned above happen the same people will come in and call Holland useless for letting those guys go and not getting deals done for them.

As far as lines go... I dunno. The top two could be any combination of guys really. Do you put Hank and Dats back together or do you keep Franzen, Cleary and Hank together? They had a good playoff together.

Franzen - Zetterberg - Cleary

Filppula - Dats - Homer

Hudler - Helm - Leino

cheap UFA - Draper - Maltby

As for the UFA... who konws. Maybe it's a tryout guy or something I dunno. But Abby will start the year in GR. He would be gettig 10 minutes here or 20 minutes there. I know people think he should be here but I would rather have him playing big minutes.

on D.

Lids - Rafalski

Kronner - Stewie

Big E - Lebda

Who knows what happens with Lilja so thats still very much up in the air.

[C20lw 0]

I agree Maltby, Homer, and Drapes will hold us back some. Drapes is still valuable with the faceoffs, especially on the 4th line and PK. Leaving Abby at wing to help him out should make up somewhat for the lack of work done by Maltby.

We are going to need a big forward to help out on the 2nd/3rd line. We can't expect these guys to be seeing straight after a few weeks of getting smashed into the boards by someone 6in taller and 25lbs heavier. We got guys that can finish checks and take a hit or two, but without some guy to help take some abuse we are gonna see a lot of guys gettin wore out fast.

However, Im staying optimistic about next year. I expect some rough games and a rough start to the season, but I do think Holland will make some moves near the deadline and and some grit to help even out the lines. Its still too early to assume we are going to fighting uphill battles all season. We will have our tough games for sure, but I don't think we are officially screwed. And maybe this is Howards time to show us what hes got. Everyone has to start somewhere right?