Wings Defensive Future?

[Wingseroo 0]

Are'nt Kindl and Kolosov out of options next year? By that I mean they are with the Wings, dealt, or lost?

[numberthirtynine 0]

I read on capgeek that Zdeno Chara's contract is up one year after Lidstrom's. He makes about the same amount of money. And I think we may target him.

The front office isn't stupid. They're not naive enough to try and replace our number one Dman, who happens to have been the best blue liner to ever play hockey, with someone from the roster now. I like our kids as much as the next guy but they know that if Lids goes, and they have over 7 mil to play with, they're going to go out and try and ****** the best FA defenseman around.

A few other names that come to mind are Duncan Keith who makes around what is it? 1.5 mil? Yeah, he's not going to want a raise or anything in a year lol. But how in the hell could Chicago keep him? Esp with Seabrook, Kane, Toews, Madden, Buttfuglien, Ladd and Eager all being free agents too. They're going to lose someone.

I just noticed the length of Campbell's contract. He's mooching 7.1 mil off the cap until 2016. LMMFAO. Smooth move Hawks.

The only other FAs for 2010 worth anything are Neidermayer, who as a rental may not be bad but his best days are beyond him. I never thought he was that good. Pronger, who I wouldn't want on this team. Gonchar, who doesn't play enough D to play on our number one pairing and Pavel Kubina who just isn't good enough.

In 2011, same. Not a hell of alot other than Chara. And Shea Weber. He's very good, I dunno if he's #1 defenseman on the Wings good, but he's not bad. So either we make a blockbuster trade sometime in the next two years, or pick up Kim Johnsson or something, I dunno I'm running out of ideas, we're going to sign a FA or rely on someone already here. Which I think we all know deep dpwn, won't be adequate within the next year or two. Kronner and Stuart aren't good enough, they're a perfect second pairing. Ericsson may hit those heights one day but not this soon, no way.

I hope we've got something planned. Maybe Lids will sign another two year deal worth a litte less and give us time to plan more.

Can you picture Lids resigning for something like 4.5-5 mil, Rafalski leaving, and us getting Chara in his place? Lidstrom and Chara might just destroy planets and impregnate girlfriends.

Though one thing I've realized, is we're not going to have free pickins like some years. The NHL seems to be going through a good defenseman drought. There aren't nearly as many as in previous seasons. The best ones are getting older and/or retiring, the younger guys are either all about offense or are horribly overrated (Mike Green, dion Phaneuf, etc.) and the few diamonds in the rough seem to be signed long term (Bouwmeester). But one thing all awful teams had in common? The number 1 Dman on the team, wouldn't be fit to play on our second defensive pairing. If this isn't an indication of how important that specific position is, I don't know what is. We need someone great there. Every team I came across who seems to be able to score but not stop the other team, or just couldn't win for trying, had an overpaid scrub as their first defenseman. We can't turn into that. We're deep but we need that superstar. We can't waste our team not getting that guy.

Edited July 6, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[Wingseroo 0]

Vladdy was a 1st tier defenseman, but he was no Lidstrom. Lidstrom is an elite defenseman, one of maybe 3-4 in the NHL right now.

The future looks good, but I don't see anyone replacing Lidstrom. The Wings can afford a few 1st tier defensemen like Rafalski, but getting that elite defenseman like Lidstrom will be a tall order. Teams that have these elite defensemen don't let them go thats for sure. Scott Niedermayer is another good example of a elite defenseman.

Whoa Nelly!!! Vlady was outstanding HOF type defenseman... He was probably stronger defensively then Lidstrom before his crash... Roughly similar ages... Gritty and nasty... He never would have put up the points Lids has but was every bit as much of an all timer as a defenseman... When he had the accident he would have demanded as much and possibly more in trade then Lids... Guy was a 1 man wrecking crew that drew so many frustration penalties from other players... Vlady was a heart and soul guy...

[numberthirtynine 0]

Whoa Nelly!!! Vlady was outstanding HOF type defenseman... He was probably stronger defensively then Lidstrom before his crash... Roughly similar ages... Gritty and nasty... He never would have put up the points Lids has but was every bit as much of an all timer as a defenseman... When he had the accident he would have demanded as much and possibly more in trade then Lids... Guy was a 1 man wrecking crew that drew so many frustration penalties from other players... Vlady was a heart and soul guy...

I love Vladdy as much as the next guy but no one's stronger defensively than Lids. Ever, nm Vladdy. You can't be better than perfect. He was a beast though, no doubting that.

Edited July 6, 2009 by numberthirtynine

[kook_10 1,705]

Vladdy = +60!!!

Edited July 6, 2009 by kook_10

[SDavis35 140]

Lidstrom didn't really just start dominating the first time he put a Wings jersey on you know =P

I was too young back then

[Wingseroo 0]

I love Vladdy as much as the next guy but no one's stronger defensively than Lids. Ever, nm Vladdy. You can't be better than perfect. He was a beast though, no doubting that.

Were you around in 96-97 season? Vlady was the guy the Wings put on ice in all shutdown situations... I remember Slava Fetisov mentioning he was better then him in his hey day (Fetisov is still considered by many to be the finest amateur D-man in history while playing for CCCP team #1)... Different styles both HOF caliber (Vlady & Lids) and arguably pre accident Vlady was better... Would he have had the complete career that Lids has had? Who knows, but after 96-97 season there was a lot of muttering that he deserved the Norris Trophy and only got snubbed because of scoring prowess...

[Wingseroo 0]

Vladdy = +60!!!

Exactly!

[numberthirtynine 0]

I'm not saying he's far behind Lids, he's right there. But Lidstrom became perfect. Vladdy was as close as anyone could get but Lidstrom is just a machine.

[jollymania 162]

well even guys like mckenzie have put norris potential on ericsson

[Hiei 192]

I think Ericsson has the potential to equal Lidstrom....I really do.

[Wingseroo 0]

well even guys like mckenzie have put norris potential on ericsson

Back to the future LOL... Yeah Kronwall and Big Rig have futures, Kronwall a more physical harder shooting but otherwise less skilled top blueliner then Lids... I doubt Kronwall is ever a superstar, but I think he can be a solid 1st liner... Ericsson I have a feeling he will be a better shutdown guy long term... Stuart and Rafalski are signed through 2012... Barring a trade they are in the top 4 for a few more years... This is probably the top 4 in the future for a long while... Kindl and Kolosov probably get a shot to show what they have in call ups this year and next year... Lebda and Meech make sense to hold onto for this season for salary reasons, I expect both to be gone the next year... Lids comes back for another season after this one I can see Kindl & Kolosov battling for 6th and 7th slots... I actually think if Lids retires the Wings might pick up 2 FA's to fill in and then keep the one they like more of Kolosov and Kindl as #7... Why I think they will feel more comfortable with Lids in house using rookies at the back end of the d-man roster, without him they would rather pick up some cheap experience... Rafalski will probably become a Larry Murphy type over the next few years that drops in the pairings but is still kept on the PP units... I like Stuart, but I just do not think he is a 22 to 30 min a night guy so never gets slotted higher then the 2nd pairing (been wrong before)... Who knows 3 years from now Kronwall & Ericsson might be top pairing with Rafalski 2nd pairing with a young guy and Stuart 3rd pairing with a young guy... In fact I could see that being reality by 11'-12' season...

[numberthirtynine 0]

I think he's a Norris candidate down the line. But in a couple years? Are we really ok with not having a top guy while we wait for him? We're a constant contender, we need a true #1 Dman until he's ready.

[Finnish Wing 110]

Kronwall will take big steps offensively and stay here for the rest of his career. Ericsson will become a good top 4 D-man. Lids will probably play 1-2 years and Raffi 2-3 years. Stuarts future will depend on how good will he be. If he doesn't play better and keeps making those turnovers Kenny probably won't offer him a new contract. We could get Doughty or Weber if they decide to test the open market etc. If Kindl will get his game going again he can be on the roster too.

[Dimaline312000 51]

Ok, my next question. I know that Brendan Smith is in College at Wisconny but when will he be able to come to at least the Griffins?? Also depending on how long the rest of his deveopment takes when will he be abl to come to the Wings??

He looks to be a good D-man, definetly will need some development time but I hope this kid does indeed make it to the NHL.

[egroen 384]

I think Kronwall needs to take a step back and work on fundamentals again.

IMO, he was a better overall defenseman when he was putting up 20-35 points than last year when he scored over 50 pts.

He was a turnover machine, jumped up way too often and made a lot of bad decisions.

I would rather see him play with Rafalski or Lidstrom (or even Ericsson) than Stuart -- Stuart, with the "stay-at-home" title gave Kronwall the confidence to roam around way too much.

[titanium2 867]

Ok, my next question. I know that Brendan Smith is in College at Wisconny but when will he be able to come to at least the Griffins?? Also depending on how long the rest of his deveopment takes when will he be abl to come to the Wings??

He looks to be a good D-man, definetly will need some development time but I hope this kid does indeed make it to the NHL.

He's been there for what, two years now? After he completes a third I think he can move into the AHL if the Wings believe he's ready. Let's say he does. It's probably another two years at minimum before he'd play 20 games in a season for the Wings as a call up. Just my guess.

[mmamolo 287]

I think Kronwall still has a lot of upside we have yet to see. THis is a big year for hi min my opinion. THis is when he needs to put it all together. He needs to display the sound defensively side of his game he showed in 2008 and match it with his offensive ability of last year. Don't forget this guy had a lot of injury troubles early in his career. He is not where he would have been at this age due to his injuries. He is still growing into the defensemen he will become. I truly believe he will play his entire career in Detroit and be a top pair guy.

As for Konstantinov, look at these stats:

Konstantinov Stats

What an absolute beast

[titanium2 867]

I think Kronwall still has a lot of upside we have yet to see. THis is a big year for hi min my opinion. THis is when he needs to put it all together. He needs to display the sound defensively side of his game he showed in 2008 and match it with his offensive ability of last year. Don't forget this guy had a lot of injury troubles early in his career. He is not where he would have been at this age due to his injuries. He is still growing into the defensemen he will become. I truly believe he will play his entire career in Detroit and be a top pair guy.

As for Konstantinov, look at these stats:

Konstantinov Stats

What an absolute beast

Last year Kronner nearly played a full regular season along with a full playoff run. Health wise, that was really good for him. Nonetheless, I also expect big things from him this year. Baby steps.

[Peleshob 0]

I think the Wings will be just fine. Obviously they know/knew Lidstrom was going to retire eventually, and they've done well to draft several promising defensemen. I think either Kindl or Smith could break out very well. Even guys like Nicastro or Lashoff could continue to improve and surprise some people, becoming very good defensemen. I really believe that Kindl is going to do much better on the Red Wings as opposed to GR, where he's had little defensive help in the past two seasons. His skating ability and lateral movement on the blueline is very good. I'm hoping for good things out of him still.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Vladdy was pretty up there before the wreck. I mean we did strike extremely lucky twice, let's go for 3

And we've been unlucky twice too-- both Vladdy and Fischer were taken away from the Wings before they could truly fulfill their potential (Fischer more than Vladdy, who at least played long enough to establish himself as a top pairing quality d-man).

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

And we've been unlucky twice too-- both Vladdy and Fischer were taken away from the Wings before they could truly fulfill their potential (Fischer more than Vladdy, who at least played long enough to establish himself as a top pairing quality d-man).

And Hatcher and Uwe Krupp in the interim -- the Wings are seriously cursed when it comes to big defensemen. Lilja's on deck.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

I think Kronwall needs to take a step back and work on fundamentals again.

IMO, he was a better overall defenseman when he was putting up 20-35 points than last year when he scored over 50 pts.

He was a turnover machine, jumped up way too often and made a lot of bad decisions.

I would rather see him play with Rafalski or Lidstrom (or even Ericsson) than Stuart -- Stuart, with the "stay-at-home" title gave Kronwall the confidence to roam around way too much.

Agreed. Kronwall's defensive ability seemed to erode last year. The pairing with Stuart never seemed to work all last year and especially in the playoffs.

The best Kronwall looked all year was when he played with Lidstrom. Of course you could throw Meech up with Lidstrom and he'd look ten times better than he really is.

And of course, it's my opinion that Rafalski took too many risks when paired with Lidstrom. All last year he seemed to count on Lidstrom to save his bacon when he made a dangerous decision.

I'd much rather see these pairings next year:

Lidstrom-Kronwall

Rafalski-Stuart/Ericsson (Ericsson would only be playing 2 or 3 minutes a night along side Rafalski here)

Ericsson-Lilja

The idea behind giving Ericsson a few minutes with Rafalski on the 2nd pairing is to allow the 2nd pairing to basically split the time with the top pairing. That way Rafalski's minutes don't drop and Lidstrom isn't forced to carry too much load.

I'd really like to see Kronwall get more learning time with Lidstrom before he retires.

[mmamolo 287]

I think it's safe to say that Detroit as a team suffered defensively last year. Look at everyone's +/- compared to the previous season:

Lidstrom 08/09 + 31 07/08 +40 = down by 9

Rafalski 08/09 +27 07/08 +17 = down by 10

Datsyuk 08/09 +34 07/08 +41 = down by 7

Zetterberg 08/09 +13 07/08 +30 = down 17

Cleary 08/09 0 07/08 +21 = down 21

Stuart is hard to compare because he spent the baulk of 07/08 with LA but in 9 games with the Wings during the 07/08 season he was +6 and in 08/09 he was -3.

I just highlighted some key members of the Wings who had drops in their +/- to show that Kronwall was not the only one. I didn't look through everyone but I am sure some had their +/- go up. I woudl imagine Franzen's went up but I could be wrong. Either way, it wasnt just Kronwall who had a tough defensive year.

[Selke13 0]

fill some wholes

Oxymoron??? i think so