egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 How many goals would a 2nd or 3rd round pick have scored? How many goals does 'nothing' score? Picks from Hossa and picks from Hudler could go into a trade for an actual roster player... at least you have that option. I don't think next season has gone down the crapper, but I do think Holland could have done a much better job this summer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wingslogo19 281 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 If he does sign with the KHL maybe that will leave a full time spot for Abby Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest E_S_A_D Report post Posted July 8, 2009 lol @ the wings fan who thinks lidstrom is gonan play for $3 mill next year, are u high? i love the optimism on here. the same people who are overly optimistic and unrealistic as usual (wont name any names or anything). Lidstrom would be worth $4.5 at most in today's market. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Lidstrom would be worth $4.5 at most in today's market. Heh... exactly $750,000 more than Jeff Finger. I hope Lidstrom would sign at $4.5m, which would be a huge discount. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HudlerFanatic 4 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 WTF?! Read these 12 pages before my coffee.....Hudler--I will find you and kick you in your scrawny ass and pull you by the ear into Hollands office and make you take whatever he offers you that is a match to what you currently make or a little more.....then after making you aplogize, I will ***** slap you into October....! I will only do this out of love, not anger...... ......aside from that........are then any articles that say the actual "happenings" and if this was all true about Holland's $2.5 offer and it is a 1yr for $2...that doesn't make sense....but 2 yrs at more than that.....you can't be mad at him for wanting the money...b/c that's what everyone else that left wanted....and everyone was ok with that...... He wants to play in Detroit....nothing wrong with that....if he can't play for the D then he goes to Russia....can you really picture him somewhere else??? I can't! and if Holland isn't offering him more....then I don't think other teams will..... How would you feel if you just had the best season of your life and no one wanted to pay you what you earned -- but there are others out there making the upwards of $3-$5 Mil more than you because they are BIGGER but have virtually the same stats or worse........ A lot of you say shame on Hudler.....I say shame on Holland for thinking he can belittle players like that...... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Louisville 112 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 And like I responded in that thread, Holland owed nothing to Hossa. Hossa was well compensated to play on a champion team and given every opportunity to succeed - which he blew. Holland pulled a wishy-washy, 'maybe he'll still sign with us, but if he signs with one of these teams, I'll get a pick for it' -- he needed to make a decision, realize Hossa was not going to sign for pennies on the dime, and trade his exclusive negotiating rights just like Bouwmeester's. Yes, I am suggesting Helm, Leino and Abdelkader will not be nearly as productive as Hudler (or Samuelsson, for that matter). First: Hudler has actually produced at the NHL level -- none of them have for any sustained period. Second: Hudler (whom is currently younger than Leino) scored 97 points in the AHL, years ago. None of them managed even close to that in the AHL in even this past year. I agree, I don't buy this Hossa 'didn't owe us' crap. He blew it and deserved whatever fate management bestowed. Had his rights been traded there still would of been no requirement for him to sign there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyphoenix 153 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Well if he is going to go to the KHL for $3-$4 mil instead of staying in Detroit for $2.5 because thats all we can afford, good riddance. We shouldnt have to break our backs to make players fit here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Holland awarded Filppula with a 5 year, $15m contract after two seasons of 17 pts and 36 pts. Man, I hate that contract -- what possible argument can he have for not giving Hudler more after 42 and 57 pt seasons? He could have traded Filppula and Holmstrom, afforded Hossa and gained draft picks. Argh... I'm just pissy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 And like I responded in that thread, Holland owed nothing to Hossa. Hossa was well compensated to play on a champion team and given every opportunity to succeed - which he blew. Holland pulled a wishy-washy, 'maybe he'll still sign with us, but if he signs with one of these teams, I'll get a pick for it' -- he needed to make a decision, realize Hossa was not going to sign for pennies on the dime, and trade his exclusive negotiating rights just like Bouwmeester's. Yes, I am suggesting Helm, Leino and Abdelkader will not be nearly as productive as Hudler (or Samuelsson, for that matter). First: Hudler has actually produced at the NHL level -- none of them have for any sustained period. Second: Hudler (whom is currently younger than Leino) scored 97 points in the AHL, years ago. None of them managed even close to that in the AHL in even this past year. I get your argument and it holds some legitimacy, just not as much as you think. We're not losing 80 goals. We are losing some goals, but some guys are expected to step it up. The differential will not be enough to keep us out of the playoffs. And once the playoffs starts, (as you already know) anything can happen. Holland has 1 D-man to trade and a little bit of cap space. Most bargains are had at trade deadline anyhow. Perhaps, if needed, Holland will pull off an amazing (key) trade by deadline. I also expect training camp to be huge this year. After all, that's how Cleary earned his spot. My stance is our offense is fine. Our defense is stellar and we'll make the playoffs. In a cap world, I think Detroit is in perfect position, especially since a lot of money will free up next year and some of our older guys will leave or retire. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Second: Hudler (whom is currently younger than Leino) scored 97 points in the AHL, years ago. None of them managed even close to that in the AHL in even this past year. Donald MacLean scored 56 goals for GR that same year, Kopecky had 72 points. Should we be concerned that the sky may be falling because they're not around? Apples and oranges. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 WTF?! Read these 12 pages before my coffee.....Hudler--I will find you and kick you in your scrawny ass and pull you by the ear into Hollands office and make you take whatever he offers you that is a match to what you currently make or a little more.....then after making you aplogize, I will ***** slap you into October....! I will only do this out of love, not anger...... ......aside from that........are then any articles that say the actual "happenings" and if this was all true about Holland's $2.5 offer and it is a 1yr for $2...that doesn't make sense....but 2 yrs at more than that.....you can't be mad at him for wanting the money...b/c that's what everyone else that left wanted....and everyone was ok with that...... He wants to play in Detroit....nothing wrong with that....if he can't play for the D then he goes to Russia....can you really picture him somewhere else??? I can't! and if Holland isn't offering him more....then I don't think other teams will..... How would you feel if you just had the best season of your life and no one wanted to pay you what you earned -- but there are others out there making the upwards of $3-$5 Mil more than you because they are BIGGER but have virtually the same stats or worse........ A lot of you say shame on Hudler.....I say shame on Holland for thinking he can belittle players like that...... Holland has done nothing wrong. Hes not going to cripple the roster cap wise just so he can make a small one-dimensional player who is happy to leave the country for money happy is he? And Hudler is taking the $2m in Russia because its tax free. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 I get your argument and it holds some legitimacy, just not as much as you think. We're not losing 80 goals. We are losing some goals, but some guys are expected to step it up. The differential will not be enough to keep us out of the playoffs. And once the playoffs starts, (as you already know) anything can happen. Holland has 1 D-man to trade and a little bit of cap space. Most bargains are had at trade deadline anyhow. Perhaps, if needed, Holland will pull off an amazing (key) trade by deadline. I also expect training camp to be huge this year. After all, that's how Cleary earned his spot. My stance is our offense is fine. Our defense is stellar and we'll make the playoffs. In a cap world, I think Detroit is in perfect position, especially since a lot of money will free up next year and some of our older guys will leave or retire. The bolded really grinds my gears as well -- so now not only did we not receive a single pick for Hossa and Hudler, but Holland is now looking at losing some of them at the trade deadline to try and replace these guys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Holland has done nothing wrong. Hes not going to cripple the roster cap wise just so he can make a small one-dimensional player who is happy to leave the country for money happy is he? And Hudler is taking the $2m in Russia because its tax free. So let's say he got his 3-4mil. How much would he have after taxes? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest mindfly Report post Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) If you play in KHL it's all tax free... freakin ace really. 4million is probably close to 2million after taxes Edited July 8, 2009 by mindfly Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Konnan511 1,736 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 lol @ the wings fan who thinks lidstrom is gonan play for $3 mill next year, are u high? i love the optimism on here. the same people who are overly optimistic and unrealistic as usual (wont name any names or anything). Lidstrom is on record saying he'd play for league minimum if it was the only choice. Laugh all you want. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Snazzy 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) The bolded really grinds my gears as well -- so now not only did we not receive a single pick for Hossa and Hudler, but Holland is now looking at losing some of them at the trade deadline to try and replace these guys. How would he get a pick from Hudler since it's Hudler's choice that he signed with the KHL? If you are saying that Holland has bad judge of character, then your argument might hold more substance if you say Holland should have been physic, or, perhaps, overpaid Hudler and promised him a 1st line spot to stay. Or maybe you could blame Babcock for hurting Hudler's feelings for not feeding his ego... As far as Hossa goes, there was reports that if he'd signed with LA, we'd gotten a pick. Another thing you need to remember, is lots of other teams know Detroit's situation and knew the Hossa situation. It appears you are just looking for a scape goat and since Kopecky is already gone, you are looking at anyone in near proximity. Edit: Lebda should have some trade value because of his cheap price tag and his defensive skills and experience. We pick on him here, but he is a good player for what he gets paid. Edited July 8, 2009 by Snazzy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
uk_redwing 495 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 So let's say he got his 3-4mil. How much would he have after taxes? You tell me. Im not American. Over here anything over £50,000 gets slapped with 50% income tax. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HudlerFanatic 4 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Holland has done nothing wrong. Hes not going to cripple the roster cap wise just so he can make a small one-dimensional player who is happy to leave the country for money happy is he? And Hudler is taking the $2m in Russia because its tax free. Whooptido....so did you talk to Hudler and that's what he told you.....Hudler's press release...is there a video somewhere?? Holland doing nothing worng...letting players go, getting nothing in return, having less forwards than we need....but signing defencemen when he had already to plan on trading one that we already have.....?????? IMO---he's not actually helping the situation.... I know you don't like Huds and have some kind of hate for him like LeftWinger.....but don't be so naive to the entire situation......I think the Wings are in trouble--not solely because of the loss of Hudler.....but because of the entirity of events that have happened since the Frenzy began......yes, Abby-Ericcson-Leino-Helm...I like watching them play...but do I think they can make up for ALL of the Wings losses....NO...I don't......and we will agree to disagree on that point. Hopefully our Elite players will have their best career's next year, no matter how long they've been with the Wings...in the NHL...or they're age..... I have faith in the Wings...but I can't sit here and say I'm not worried like some of you do..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 Donald MacLean scored 56 goals for GR that same year, Kopecky had 72 points. Should we be concerned that the sky may be falling because they're not around? Apples and oranges. Who was on MacLean's line that year feeding him? Hint: He had a Griffins franchise recod for assists that year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 How would he get a pick from Hudler since it's Hudler's choice that he signed with the KHL? If are saying that Holland has bad judge of character, then your argument might hold more substance if you say Holland should have been physic, or, perhaps, overpaid Hudler and promised him a 1st line spot to stay. Or maybe you could blame Babcock for hurting Hudler's feelings for not feeding his ego... As far as Hossa goes, there was reports that if he'd signed with LA, we'd gotten a pick. Another thing you need to remember, is lots of other teams know Detroit's situation and knew the Hossa situation. It appears you are just looking for a scape goat and since Kopecky is already gone, you are looking at anyone in near proximity. I'm saying he should have realized Hudler would not sign for less than Filppula for the opportunity to play crap minutes for Babcock. Babcock went out of his way to not play Hudler, even when the team needed goals... so he should have just gone after the guy Babcock would actually play -- Samuelsson (or another free agent) and gotten some compensation for Hudler's rights. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 As far as Hossa goes, there was reports that if he'd signed with LA, we'd gotten a pick. Another thing you need to remember, is lots of other teams know Detroit's situation and knew the Hossa situation. Are you seriously suggesting Holland would get nothing if he offered up exclusive negotioation rights for the #1 free agent in the league? Edit: Lebda should have some trade value because of his cheap price tag and his defensive skills and experience. We pick on him here, but he is a good player for what he gets paid. I campaigned for Holland to trade either Lebda or Meech for picks instead of letting Quincey get away for nothing. Lebda and Meech are rather similar players, while Quincey had some size and PK abilities. That irked me as well (losing another asset for nothing). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
egroen 384 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 (edited) Me thinks instead of adding players/making moves - the coaching staff may change their strategy, or maybe even rely on the old "left-wing lock"...It may not be the most exciting hockey during the reg season, but it comes in quite handy when the playoffs roll around. They may have to do exactly that. Luckily Babcock has experience with it.... Edited July 8, 2009 by egroen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HudlerFanatic 4 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 So let's say he got his 3-4mil. How much would he have after taxes? Single Tax rate 35% over $372,950 (http://taxes.about.com/b/2008/10/21/2009-tax-brackets-announced.htm) $1.95M-$3.8M (if my calculations are correct...(but I'm not that good at math) So, seems like a silly move to me.....but he's not being offered $3-$4M...so that's where the problem is! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StevieY9802 6 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 He could get on the same page as Babcock and offer Samuelsson the Hudler money and then trade Hudler's rights. What was Hudler's money this year? I haven't read anything that said for sure what the Wings were offering they were all guesses so how do you know Sammy would have taken whatever that was. I don't think Sammy is worth what he got from the Canucks and I am sure the Wings wouldn't have given him that so why would he stay? And why would Holland have traded Hudler rights? Now you are just getting crazy. This guy is leaving the NHL. And don't say Holland shouldn't have assumed he was gonna be able to sign him. A RFA who you had been talking to and filed for arbitration. That sounds like a guy who you have a good shot at keeping around. If Holland shouldn't have thought he was sticking around and should have traded his rights then every GM should trae their RFA's. I think this came up real quick. Where would have been the clue to trade him? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peleshob 0 Report post Posted July 8, 2009 This thread is a prime example of how the world is full of extremists (on either side). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
