88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

Like last year with all the defensive problems, the Wings still had no trouble making the playoffs. I don't see why next season would be any different. Then I'll start showing some more concern if there are things to be concerned about. Wings are fine rigght now.

[digitaljohn88 4]

Luckily, all of those minutes from the players we lost don't just float into a black hole.

SOMEONE will get the first, second, fourth line plus two giant powerplay spots. They may not make up all the production, but they should be able to achieve 07-08 offensive numbers.

[p_diddy_datsyuk_13 2]

Filppula and Cleary's production will increase as they will get more minutes. Zetterberg and Datsyuk may be reunited, which will probably push Z to around 40 goals. Leino will probably reach double digits. Holmström hopefully won't be injured as much. Franzén will be a beast. Osgood will score one goal.

The real issue isn't the amount of goals we scored, it's the amount we let in. If we sign some cheap checking forwards who can kill penalties etc. we should be alright. We can always make a move for a scorer at the trade deadline. While things in the offensive department may not be looking good, there is no reason to attempt to sign some washed up forward who will have a bad attitude and get injured and not score that much. Sign a few hardworking players to help fix our defense, and we will take care of ourselves.

At the trade deadline?? The problem is not that there is nobody out there, but rather we have no space to add anyone to the roster at a high price... we just have to bite the bullet for a year and make a couple big moves next summer when we will have $9-12+ million to spend (depending on what the cap does) and only a couple million to be used resigning people.

Edited July 9, 2009 by p_diddy_datsyuk_13

[ilmickeyli 40]

You cant count on waiting til March for help if the team sucks and is possibly out of playoff contention

[DEVILSWATERBOY 10]

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

That's the production we've lost in Hossa, Hudler, Sammy and Kopecky.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

Like I and others said for the last couple weeks, there's a strong chance we're going to lose all our FA's, not just Hossa. Many scoffed at the notion. But look at us now.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

Now, if you really want to see how ugly that is, check this out....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetch...ewName=goalsFor

Subtract 88 goals and we edge out the Rangers by a goal for 28th place in goals scored.

Obviously, it's not that cut and dry, but our kids are not likely to put up that much. Leino's had success at times but he wasn't a big scorer in the AHL even. It's unlikely we'll be able to bring anyone in with our cap space to help that much.

I'm not saying we're out at all as a lot of elite teams are taking a hit this go around as well, but this sure isn't going to be like the last few seasons. This team is going to have to work harder than ever for every point.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points - 4 (really 3...) players

That is not something to minimize.

WE give up Huds, Sam and Kop not buy any means tops scores on this team all three will be replaced with Leino, Helm and Agitator as for as Hossa you can not replace what he did in the regular season , but as we all know in the D it is about the playoffs and if you do not perform well you can be replaced with someone with just a liitle more heart and desire to win the cup. Don't get me wrong I have loved watching Hossa since his days in Ottawa and I am pissed that he left but I do believe the team will be better in the playoffs with some hungry middle of the road player like(Dallas Drake) or even Comrie, Naslund ,Kariya or I don't I am going to say Sundin. Hey Kenny make the right move so naysayers will be quite.

[ben_usmc 253]

it really sucks that our replacements won't be responsible for a single point; accordng to those say we lost 80 goals and etc

[Wingseroo 0]

WE give up Huds, Sam and Kop not buy any means tops scores on this team all three will be replaced with Leino, Helm and Agitator as for as Hossa you can not replace what he did in the regular season , but as we all know in the D it is about the playoffs and if you do not perform well you can be replaced with someone with just a liitle more heart and desire to win the cup. Don't get me wrong I have loved watching Hossa since his days in Ottawa and I am pissed that he left but I do believe the team will be better in the playoffs with some hungry middle of the road player like(Dallas Drake) or even Comrie, Naslund ,Kariya or I don't I am going to say Sundin. Hey Kenny make the right move so naysayers will be quite.

Actually yes Hudler was a top scorer on this team last season think he nesteled into the list comfortably... Sammy was in the past a top 2 line goal scorer did not have a good year last year...

Edited July 9, 2009 by Wingseroo

[Opie 308]

Hell of a lot of panic going on here, is it the playoffs already?

Where is the panic button!!

[chrisdetroit 189]

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

That's the production we've lost in Hossa, Hudler, Sammy and Kopecky.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

Like I and others said for the last couple weeks, there's a strong chance we're going to lose all our FA's, not just Hossa. Many scoffed at the notion. But look at us now.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points

Now, if you really want to see how ugly that is, check this out....

http://www.nhl.com/ice/teamstats.htm?fetch...ewName=goalsFor

Subtract 88 goals and we edge out the Rangers by a goal for 28th place in goals scored.

Obviously, it's not that cut and dry, but our kids are not likely to put up that much. Leino's had success at times but he wasn't a big scorer in the AHL even. It's unlikely we'll be able to bring anyone in with our cap space to help that much.

I'm not saying we're out at all as a lot of elite teams are taking a hit this go around as well, but this sure isn't going to be like the last few seasons. This team is going to have to work harder than ever for every point.

88 goals, 118 assists, and 206 points - 4 (really 3...) players

That is not something to minimize.

Just frickin stupid. 88 goals. That assumes that the 4 replacements will score a total of zero.

Unbelieveable analysis.

More likely

Leino 15-20

Helm 15-20

Abby 10-15

xxx 10-15

Take the lowest total 15+15+10+10 = 50 goals

Now subtract 50 from the total NOT 88 that gives us 239 which is 14th based on 2008-2009. Go back 1 year to 2007-2008 and 239 goals would put us at 8th in the league.

Now obviously guys like Flip, and Cleary are going to see more ice time and should score more and Z would be expected to have a better year which certainly puts us in the top half of the league.

You should stop with the doom and gloom. The glass is half full.

Edited July 9, 2009 by chrisdetroit

[CMatt89 63]

Take it back another year, the wings scored an combined 252 goals. No Hossa, Sammy, Hudler and, Kopecky had a combined 29 goals, 65 assists and 74 points. The team overall had 37 less goals than this previous year, but, had a stanley cup. We really only going to miss the points from Sammy and Hudler. Hossa was just an add on to an already stellar, well-off roster. Abdelkader, Leino, and Helm will most likely provide the Wings with 15-30 goals and expect Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Franzen to get more ice time and theres goals will likely hit 40-50. The Wings will be fine. I dont know why everyone is panicking. I'm more worried about in 2 years when all our vets will be gone. And its a total rebuild. This is the beginning of a new era for the Wings. Im excited.

[chrisdetroit 189]

You cant count on waiting til March for help if the team sucks and is possibly out of playoff contention

Stupidest comment in a long time. The Wings have made the playoffs 18 years in a row and you think that they are going to drop from 2nd in the West to 17th in 1 year?

I've seen alot of pessimism on LGW but this one takes the cake.

Let's take a vote, how many people think that the Wings are in danger of missing the playoffs?

hahahhahahahahahahah

[WingsCaptain 0]

Also note that he was one of the top scorers in the AHL through the first few weeks but began to lose enthusiasm as it became clear he wouldn't be called up.

Finally, I'd like to end my arguments by pointing out his sweet spin-o-rama goal against Washington.

Thank you.

Once again, Marcus and I share the same brain. By the way, Marcus, I was at the game where Leino scored his first NHL goal. 2 rows from the glass on the Washington goal line, so I damn near had the best view in the house of his spin-o-rama. I wore my Zetterberg throwback jersey from the outdoor game and my wife wore her pink, Viktor Kozlov Caps jersey. Unfortunately, we had a bet riding on the game and I ended up vacuuming the house for a month.

As for the OP, why the doom and gloom? Haven't we been saying all along how we have 3rd and 4th line players who are good enough to play on other team's 1st or 2nd lines? Well, now our players who have been toiling on the 3rd and 4th will get a chance to excel and possibly get moved up a line. They will certainly get more minutes. And as I've posted elsewhere the difference between our "goals for" when we won the Cup in '08 (252) and when we lost it in '09 (289) was 37. So, consider that the new kids will score goals, and that we had fewer goals the last year we won, and I don't see the problem here.

As Marcus and I have been saying, defense wins Cups. We gotta quit the slack defensive play and get back to only giving up 20-21 shots on net per game. The rest will fall into place with the young guns taking up the scoring slack.

~ Z

Edited July 9, 2009 by WingsCaptain

[wingsownnhl43 14]

In order for Fil to get that many goals he has to play on Datsyuk's left wing so that he doesn't have to be the primary puck handler. I'm sure we'll see it every now and again this year.

No, in order for fil to do that, he needs to play on the powerplay.... which he will.

[egroen 384]

Just frickin stupid. 88 goals. That assumes that the 4 replacements will score a total of zero.

Unbelieveable analysis.

More likely

Leino 15-20

Helm 15-20

Abby 10-15

xxx 10-15

Take the lowest total 15+15+10+10 = 50 goals

I think Echolalia' totals were a bit more realistic.

If Helm or Abdelkader break 10 goals I will be ecstatic. Same if Leino gets 15.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary and Holmstrom are the guys that really need to pick up the slack... not the rookies.

Our defense and goaltending sucked last year, and I admit I am definitely worried about losing so much offense -- Holland can not just snap his fingers and say the "team will play better defensively" and watch it happen. There's definitely reason to be concerned... not necessarily over making the playoffs, but home ice is a huge advantage. I also do not like the idea of the Wings having to work their asses off every single regular season game in order to hav a solid place in the standings -- this team has gone through three long post-seasons straight. Hopefully the rookies make a big difference there.

Hopefully the defensive, PK and goaltending woes were more of an aberration resulting from a Stanley Cup hangover than anything else.

[egroen 384]

No, in order for fil to do that, he needs to play on the powerplay.... which he will.

If Flip becomes our only option on the 2nd PP unit, I am concerned.

[WingsCaptain 0]

If Flip becomes our only option on the 2nd PP unit, I am concerned.

With Leino's puck-handling abilities, I would not be shocked to see him on the 2nd PP unit before too long.

I'm not normally one to jump on a rookie and say he is going to be the next Z or Dats, but ironically I called it on Z and Dats, and I'm feeling the same way of Leino. I'd be ecstatic if he scored 20 this year in his first, full NHL season, but I think he can do it, depending on his ice time. Definitely looking forward to this season.

~ Z

[Opie 308]

If Leino is on either line 1 or 2 he will pot 20.

Playing with either or both D and Z he will pot at least 20.

Playing with Mule and Fil he will pot 18-22.

Line three I would see him putting in 12-15.

He has great offensive instincts, on line one (which is where I see Cleary BTW) he would absolutely rake with Dats and Z.

However if Babs goes big on line one and stacks it with ZD Mule, that 2nd line will suffer as Mule and Flip have great chemistry.

Abby and Helm I would be surprised if they netted 10 a piece, although Abby does look a little like Brandon Bochenski a nose for the right part of the ice.

[NEEDMOREGRIT 12]

You for got ....and zero toughness. Hopefully Kenny signs some guys that are tough and entertaining to watch now to replace those 3 guys and the last remaining lollipop man.

[egroen 384]

If Leino is on either line 1 or 2 he will pot 20.

Playing with either or both D and Z he will pot at least 20.

Playing with Mule and Fil he will pot 18-22.

Line three I would see him putting in 12-15.

He has great offensive instincts, on line one (which is where I see Cleary BTW) he would absolutely rake with Dats and Z.

However if Babs goes big on line one and stacks it with ZD Mule, that 2nd line will suffer as Mule and Flip have great chemistry.

Abby and Helm I would be surprised if they netted 10 a piece, although Abby does look a little like Brandon Bochenski a nose for the right part of the ice.

Leino might actually be a good option on that 1st line - because Dats and Zetterberg can make up for his skating and lack of defense (just like they did for Holmstrom). Cleary, and his skating and defense, will be vital to spread out the defense.

Leino has good hands, that much is apparent. I also like that he seems to hound his way to the front of the net when he does not have the puck and has banged a goal in with the puck in the air -- he has a lot of promise. It just makes me nervous to count on pretty much a rookie to produce like that. Brunnstrom started out with a bang in Dallas, and quickly fizzled to the AHL for them last year. Hopefully Leino is different.

[gcom007 1,465]

it really sucks that our replacements won't be responsible for a single point; accordng to those say we lost 80 goals and etc

Actually, I think it sucks more that you can't read.

[Opie 308]

Leino might actually be a good option on that 1st line - because Dats and Zetterberg can make up for his skating and lack of defense (just like they did for Holmstrom). Cleary, and his skating and defense, will be vital to spread out the defense.

Leino has good hands, that much is apparent. I also like that he seems to hound his way to the front of the net when he does not have the puck and has banged a goal in with the puck in the air -- he has a lot of promise. It just makes me nervous to count on pretty much a rookie to produce like that. Brunnstrom started out with a bang in Dallas, and quickly fizzled to the AHL for them last year. Hopefully Leino is different.

Oh I am not saying concern is not valid, I have concerns, but the freaking out on this board is over the top, not you, others.

Saying that,

Brunnstrom went from Euro ice to NHL, Leino went Euro ice to AHL to develop the game. I think that is the biggest difference in the Wings system, none of the rookies are ever stereotypical rookies, and I also think that is part of the "Detroit Drafts like no one else" aura.

Everyone looks at the guys who make the NHL roster, how many guys bomb out in GR and never make it to the league, more than do I am wagering. But because they are not failing on the NHL level it is sort of looked over.

Cleary will be the most important Red Wing not name Lidstrom, Datsyuk, or Zetterberg.

Dan won't be able to be a role player who kicks in anymore, the contributions he made last year that was extra, is going to be needed from him. I am a little concerned about that seeing as the last time he was counted on was really before he wore the Winged Wheel.

I mean his post season play eases my worries but still, he will be counted on this year big time!

[gcom007 1,465]

Just frickin stupid. 88 goals. That assumes that the 4 replacements will score a total of zero.

Unbelieveable analysis.

More likely

Leino 15-20

Helm 15-20

Abby 10-15

xxx 10-15

Take the lowest total 15+15+10+10 = 50 goals

Now subtract 50 from the total NOT 88 that gives us 239 which is 14th based on 2008-2009. Go back 1 year to 2007-2008 and 239 goals would put us at 8th in the league.

Now obviously guys like Flip, and Cleary are going to see more ice time and should score more and Z would be expected to have a better year which certainly puts us in the top half of the league.

You should stop with the doom and gloom. The glass is half full.

I would assume you read the whole post where I addressed this very thing before you start edripping on me for things I didn't say. Right?

Edited July 9, 2009 by gcom007

[gcom007 1,465]

I think Echolalia' totals were a bit more realistic.

If Helm or Abdelkader break 10 goals I will be ecstatic. Same if Leino gets 15.

Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Cleary and Holmstrom are the guys that really need to pick up the slack... not the rookies.

Our defense and goaltending sucked last year, and I admit I am definitely worried about losing so much offense -- Holland can not just snap his fingers and say the "team will play better defensively" and watch it happen. There's definitely reason to be concerned... not necessarily over making the playoffs, but home ice is a huge advantage. I also do not like the idea of the Wings having to work their asses off every single regular season game in order to hav a solid place in the standings -- this team has gone through three long post-seasons straight. Hopefully the rookies make a big difference there.

Hopefully the defensive, PK and goaltending woes were more of an aberration resulting from a Stanley Cup hangover than anything else.

That's my biggest concern. I'm not convinced our defensive issues are going to disappear with the snap of Hollands fingers. People making the argument that Hossa was a crutch aren't making any sense if you ask me, especially considering the nature of the defensive issues we had last year. And I agree about the kids. Those numbers would make me very happy as well. I like everyone we've got coming in a lot, but I think far too many people here are expecting way too much from them next season which just isn't really reasonable or fair to expect.

[gcom007 1,465]

Oh I am not saying concern is not valid, I have concerns, but the freaking out on this board is over the top, not you, others.

Saying that,

Brunnstrom went from Euro ice to NHL, Leino went Euro ice to AHL to develop the game. I think that is the biggest difference in the Wings system, none of the rookies are ever stereotypical rookies, and I also think that is part of the "Detroit Drafts like no one else" aura.

Everyone looks at the guys who make the NHL roster, how many guys bomb out in GR and never make it to the league, more than do I am wagering. But because they are not failing on the NHL level it is sort of looked over.

Cleary will be the most important Red Wing not name Lidstrom, Datsyuk, or Zetterberg.

Dan won't be able to be a role player who kicks in anymore, the contributions he made last year that was extra, is going to be needed from him. I am a little concerned about that seeing as the last time he was counted on was really before he wore the Winged Wheel.

I mean his post season play eases my worries but still, he will be counted on this year big time!

Cleary's going to have to be big for us. What worries me most is how this team will handle the pressure and level of intensity it's going to take to win this year. What I think a lot of people aren't thinking about is the momentum aspect. Losing that offense best-case scenario still likely means we're going to lose more games than we've won the last few years. How will the team handle that? Perhaps more importantly, how will our 4 new rookies handle that considering they haven't really had the experience some of our guys have? The head game will be huge next year, no doubt about it. I'm not panicking and I don't think I made any indication of it and even said that I don't think we're screwed or anything. But there are a lot of people around here talking like we'll be better next year without Hossa and Sammy and with the kids. I think that is one of the more ludicrous things I've heard all the more so now that we've lost Hudler. This is most likely going to be a much tougher go around through the regular season than we're used to and while I'm not worried about making the playoffs, I do wonder if we'll have the juice and the tools to go the distance with other teams stacking up and balancing out the Western conference equation.

[Opie 308]

I stopped reading when you claimed the Wings will now lose more games than they won!