Scorers and Grinders still available

[Doggy 130]

Yep, there are a few untested players even within the system that could do better than maltby... maltby is so slow and is just a shadow of his prime... sad story.

Faster means better in Sweden? I'm not surprised a 12 year old kid who's watched hockey for 14 months doesn't understand Maltby's value.

[Guest mindfly]

Faster means better in Sweden? I'm not surprised a 12 year old kid who's watched hockey for 14 months doesn't understand Maltby's value.

You stupid tool, in this case faster is better, maltby doesn't provide much at all, if anything he is a decent PK'er but there are better options out there

[Snazzy 0]

Gee, good thing I never actually said that, because if I did, I would be unable to find you those posts. I said "to an extent" for a reason. It's obvious that you only read my post "to an extent" as well. I think everyone agrees that to a certain extent those goals need to be made up for (as in the Wings can't actually score 88 less goals). There are more than a few people on here that think that those 4 players will be adequate enough to make up for the goals to that certain extent. I am saying there there is a good chance that they won't, and that, combined with the fact that there is a chance Howard won't be a capable backup in a 25-30 game role, the Wings' worst case scenario could get ugly. Next time, read the post a little more carefully, and such problems can be avoided.

Please and thank you.

"to an extent" could mean 80-some goals instead of 88 goals. So "to an extent" those guys will came up short. I see your wishy-washy post, but nobody is expecting Leino, Helm, Abdelkader, and Ericsson netting "to an extent" 88 goals.

Do you think they'll add "to an extent" the goals to provide a similar offense season like 2007/08 (the year we won the cup)?

That would mean they only need "to an extent" less than 5-10 goals each.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Snazzy

[chrisdetroit 189]

If people want a goal scorer to fill the void, then Brendan Shanahan is the man. He'll put up 20+ goals and should be a 40+ point producer. I'm sure he could be had for around $800,000 - $900,000 for a 1-year deal. He could retire a Red Wing. 40+ points for under 1 million is a ******* bargain.

So that's how we make up the "88" less goals next season:

Shanny 20

Leino 15

Helm 10

Abby 9

Oulahen 8

Ericsson 8

---------------------

Total 70 goals

= 18 less than last year.

277 Goals For. That is ELITE! That's 20 more goals than 2007/08 -- the year we won the cup.

(assuming Zetterberg and Flip both have off years and Flip doesn't increase goal production with more ice time)

I was afraid that name would come up. Shanny had 6 fricking goals in 34 games last year. Extrapolate that over 82 games and he has 14 goals. And he hasn't played more than 73 games in 4 years. That might have something to do with the fact that he's 40 years old.

It's a bit of a stretch to think that you'd get 20 goals out of him.

His points/game has declined every year

2006 0.48

2007 0.43

2008 0.31

2009 0.17

But you think that he'll get 40+ in 82 (0.49) games this coming year?

Not going to happen.

The Brendan Shanahan of 2006 we could use. The 2009-2010 version would be a waste of money.

[Herr Hockey 0]

I was afraid that name would come up. Shanny had 6 fricking goals in 34 games last year. Extrapolate that over 82 games and he has 14 goals. And he hasn't played more than 73 games in 4 years. That might have something to do with the fact that he's 40 years old.

It's a bit of a stretch to think that you'd get 20 goals out of him.

His points/game has declined every year

2006 0.48

2007 0.43

2008 0.31

2009 0.17

But you think that he'll get 40+ in 82 (0.49) games this coming year?

Not going to happen.

The Brendan Shanahan of 2006 we could use. The 2009-2010 version would be a waste of money.

I agree that 40 would be wishful thinking. Hell, even 30 is unrealistic IMO. But, he'd do better than 14. If he got some time with the likes of Franzen and Filppula and/or played on the 2nd PP unit, I think he'd get 20.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Herr Hockey

[Wingseroo 0]

I think people keep arguing around it, but everyone's posts keep proving one thing... There is a premium on scoring in the NHL... Thats why players that can put the puck in the net make more money, because well at the end of the day that is what puts butts in the seats... Like home runs, 3 pointers & slamdunks, and TD's... Hockey is no different in this, defense wins, but offense gets paid...

Edited July 10, 2009 by Wingseroo

[Herr Hockey 0]

"to an extent" could mean 80-some goals instead of 88 goals. So "to an extent" those guys will came up short. I see your wishy-washy post, but nobody is expecting Leino, Helm, Abdelkader, and Ericsson netting "to an extent" 88 goals.

Do you think they'll add "to an extent" the goals to provide a similar offense season like 2007/08 (the year we won the cup)?

That would mean they only need "to an extent" less than 5-10 goals each.

Of course "to an extent" could mean anything. That's why it was used instead of a concrete number. Did you really think it was possible that by "to an extent" I meant "80-some goals instead of 88 goals." I think a fair definition would be something like what you brought up, a season like 2007-2008 in terms of offensive production. Is it possible they could do that? Yeah it's possible. But there's still a chance they wouldn't be able to. And, as my point as been all along here, that chance combined with the chance that we might not get many wins out of Howard creates a pretty scary worst-case scenario. My original post's point was that adding someone who would very likely score around 20 goals would do a great deal of help in reducing the risk of that worst-case scenario.

[chrisdetroit 189]

I didn't hate on him. The fact is he is old and can not pot goals like he used, he is a defensive specialist now. Offense from him was like offense from Downey, rainbow sprinkles on top of the whip cream. It was nice to have.

Did I say he sucks, no. But very rarely is he seen in the O zone.

And he needs to retire, which I am sure he will after this contract.

Love the guy, but he is not potting 5-7 goals this year not because of his role, and if Ole can get into the old Maltby role he could pot 5-10 goals, 10 being the extreme I would expect from him.

Maltby is not paid to score goals. He's played 13 years with the Wings and has only scored more than 10 goals 4 times the last time being in 2003.

The real issue is that his defensive play which is what he is paid for has declined. The last 4 years he has been -9, -9, -8, -9. The 4 years before that he was +16, +15, +17, +24.

Edited July 10, 2009 by chrisdetroit

[Opie 308]

Maltby is not paid to score goals. He's played 13 years with the Wings and has only scored more than 10 goals 4 times the last time being in 2003.

The real issue is that his defensive play which is what he is paid for has declined. The last 4 years he has been -9, -9, -8, -9. The 4 years before that he was +16, +15, +17, +24.

That is why I said goals from him are like sprinkles on top of whip cream, extra. Not counted on.

He cannot agitate anymore, he cannot score anymore, he is a PK specialist of which there are at least 4 on the team currently better than him.

The discussion was about Oulahen and his ability to score, some one said Maltby can not score that many how would Ole. I simply stated Maltby has a hard time getting out of his own zone. Meaning Oulahen can get up and down the ice faster and would be in better spots to score.

[Snazzy 0]

I was afraid that name would come up. Shanny had 6 fricking goals in 34 games last year. Extrapolate that over 82 games and he has 14 goals. And he hasn't played more than 73 games in 4 years. That might have something to do with the fact that he's 40 years old.

It's a bit of a stretch to think that you'd get 20 goals out of him.

His points/game has declined every year

2006 0.48

2007 0.43

2008 0.31

2009 0.17

But you think that he'll get 40+ in 82 (0.49) games this coming year?

Not going to happen.

The Brendan Shanahan of 2006 we could use. The 2009-2010 version would be a waste of money.

What do you mean the Shanny of 2006? Shanahan just scored 23 goals in 73 games in 2008 season with the Rangers. Source to back up my claims: http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/players/65

By they way, I don't want Shanny. But some people here seem to think that if Wings don't replace those "88" goals or score 295 goals next season, we're doomed and don't make the playoffs. Other people here think they can sign two 20+ goal scorers for under 1.5 million each.

Personally, imo.. I say Holland shouldn't sign anyone outside of our prospects. I think we should run with our AHL boys and, if lucky, find a diamond in the rough during training camp (ala Cleary). Lastly, I hope somebody, anyone, signs Moen, I am getting ******* sick of hearing his ******* name. And I am getting sick and ******* tired of all these god damn useless panic threads and "Holland didn't do s***" comments. Welcome to the ******* cap world, a place where you can't s*** out more cap space!

That aside, for the money, Shanny is the best option for money/goal ratio than any other UFA for the money.

Edited July 10, 2009 by Snazzy

[Snazzy 0]

Of course "to an extent" could mean anything. That's why it was used instead of a concrete number. Did you really think it was possible that by "to an extent" I meant "80-some goals instead of 88 goals." I think a fair definition would be something like what you brought up, a season like 2007-2008 in terms of offensive production. Is it possible they could do that? Yeah it's possible. But there's still a chance they wouldn't be able to. And, as my point as been all along here, that chance combined with the chance that we might not get many wins out of Howard creates a pretty scary worst-case scenario. My original post's point was that adding someone who would very likely score around 20 goals would do a great deal of help in reducing the risk of that worst-case scenario.

There's also a chance that the world comes to an end and NHL experiences the biggest lockout in the history of man kind.... There's also a chance that Howard plays out of his ******* mind and beats Ozzie for #1. There's also a chance that Zetterberg and Datsyuk get injured and sit out most of the season. There's also a chances that Chicago's goal scorers doesn't gel and fall apart from too much ego in the locker room.

There's also a chance that Zetterberg, Cleary, Franzen, Datsyuk all have career years and make up 40+ goals combined and Helm and Leino become 40 point producers.... But one thing that is for sure, is there is NO certainty in HOCKEY!

btw, how are you going to sign this 20+ goal scorer with 1 million? After all Holland needs to fill a few roster spots. According to CapGeek.com Wings only have 1.8 million left to spend. Even so, how are you going to sign a 20+ goal scorer with only 1.8 million?

Edited July 10, 2009 by Snazzy

[mjlegend 155]

I wonder if Kenny's saving some of the limited cap space to take a run at a rental at the deadline. I'm sure there will be some UFAs getting ready to cash in next March...

[WingsCaptain 0]

I like Grier... he's from Detroit. (He's on my list of "need'em/want'em/get'em")

Nichol is a bit small, but his energy is great.

Their downside is their reckless style of play, which makes them oft injuried.

I like Grier, but I don't see him ending up in Detroit.

Btw, do a search on youtube for "Datsyuk" and "Grier" or "Sharks" for the video of Datsyuk coming out of the defensive zone with the puck and, at the last second, dances around an incoming Grier who then crushes his teammate who was pursuing Dats. Hilarious!

I'd post it, but I can't from work ...

~ Z

[Doggy 130]

You stupid tool, in this case faster is better, maltby doesn't provide much at all, if anything he is a decent PK'er but there are better options out there

Sorry. 13 year old.

Stay in school. You might learn about how offside works!

[ShanahanMan 473]

Though I REALLY think we need to sign someone, I don't think Holland will. At the most, maybe have free agent try outs at camp.

[Guest mindfly]

Sorry. 13 year old.

Stay in school. You might learn about how offside works!

What are you saying aussie???? just go and play cricket already fooooooooooooooooool.

[Doggy 130]

What are you saying aussie???? just go and play cricket already fooooooooooooooooool.

Is that meant to be racism or something? They don't play much cricket in Montreal anyway.

[wings1110 184]

nichol or peca would be nice additions

[Dominator2005 558]

nichol or peca would be nice additions

YES to Peca... 10 years ago...

[GoWings1905 2,694]

It's sad that Draper and Maltby are still around, if this wasn't the red wings they would have been traded years ago..draper has a caphit of more than a millinon i know a more than a handful players out there that could do a beter jobb for 2-300k less.... sure nice with loyalty and stuff but this isnt school where everyone is equally worth, this is pro hockey and the best players available should always play, not because they are a part of history... i still don't get why they brought mccarty to the team last year either.

You have to take the good with the bad. Although with you, I am not sure you ever see the good in the Red Wings.

[Herr Hockey 0]

There's also a chance that the world comes to an end and NHL experiences the biggest lockout in the history of man kind.... There's also a chance that Howard plays out of his ******* mind and beats Ozzie for #1. There's also a chance that Zetterberg and Datsyuk get injured and sit out most of the season. There's also a chances that Chicago's goal scorers doesn't gel and fall apart from too much ego in the locker room.

There's also a chance that Zetterberg, Cleary, Franzen, Datsyuk all have career years and make up 40+ goals combined and Helm and Leino become 40 point producers.... But one thing that is for sure, is there is NO certainty in HOCKEY!

btw, how are you going to sign this 20+ goal scorer with 1 million? After all Holland needs to fill a few roster spots. According to CapGeek.com Wings only have 1.8 million left to spend. Even so, how are you going to sign a 20+ goal scorer with only 1.8 million?

What's the point of garbage like this? I'd suggest you cut the bulls*** out of your posts, but I think there is a minimum number of characters that have to go into a post. It's obvious that I was discussing the fact that there is a real possibility that they might not make up for enough of the missing goals, and that there are too many things that can go wrong next year. Of course anything is possible, but I think signing someone who has a good chance of scoring 20 goals would help lower the chances of having a worst case scenario. Sure, guys like Bert and Shanahan have their problems, especially in the defensive department. But right now, that's all there is left in the goal department at the price Holland can afford. And yes, one of them could be signed for 1.8 mil. Welcome to the cap world.

[BeeRYCE 2]

No word of a lie, I'd risk Afinogenov... I think as a second liner on this team and on this system, we can get him to his 06/07 ways. If you don't notice, which I'm sure you guys do, we don't necessarily use the dump and chase method (like most teams do), at least with our first two lines... We use the "carry in, drop pass method" if you will when coming into the zone. We use it with Datsyuk mostly, and sometimes Zetterberg. Afinogenov can carry it into the zone in that sense and he would have the snipers to feed it to, not to say he passes much, but he can... and will learn to very well with the system the Wings got going. Hell, let him bring it to the net and let Franzen and/or Holmstrom get dirty goals off his missed opportunities.

I think Maxim would fit in well, and with the Wings... His past two seasons will be non-existant. TAKE THE RISK, the dude has skill.

[pockets 9]

i know of a guy who could be rather interesting he has a bit of an injury problem but he is a former 40g scorer and hes never won a cup

anyone know who im referring too

[Booster313 138]

i know of a guy who could be rather interesting he has a bit of an injury problem but he is a former 40g scorer and hes never won a cup

anyone know who im referring too

Robert Lang...Babcock doesn't like him, he won't be back.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Maxim Afinogenov, Buffalo ($3.5 million) -- Nooooooooooo thanks. Overpaid for what he provides (which isn't a whole lot)

P.J. Axelsson, Boston ($1.85 million) -- Maybe, haven't seen a ton of him.

Todd Bertuzzi, Calgary ($1.95 million) -- If he's cheap, sure. He definitely showed flashes of his offensive skill in Calgary. Decent choice for what we need from him- 40-50pts, 20-25 goals.

Mike Comrie, Ottawa ($4 million) -- Never ever ever. Never. Thinks he's more important than he'll ever be.

Mathieu Dandenault, Montreal ($1.7 million) -- No thanks. Overpaid for what he provides now.

Mike Grier, San Jose ($1.8 million) -- Yes please. Perfect choice for the Wings.

Viktor Kozlov, Washington ($2.5 million) -- No way. Underachiever and there's only room for one Kozlov in this Organization.

Manny Malhotra, Columbus ($1.5 million) -- Possibly. Has elements the Wings need.

Scott Nichol, Nashville ($750,000) -- Maybe? Size would be nice to have too.

Rob Niedermayer, Anaheim ($2 million) -- Would have to take a paycut. Not necessarily the player he was during their cup run.

Mike Peca, Columbus ($1.3 million) -- Ok sure. Not sure what he has left at this point, but hopefully that means he's willing to sign dirt cheap

Brendan Shanahan, New Jersey ($800,000) - He's not a Babcock fan, and I don't see him uprooting his family at this point. He'll only likely sign in the NY area.

Mats Sundin, Vancouver ($8.6 million) -- Only if he's willing to take a massive paycut. If so- sounds good to me.

Petr Sykora, Pittsburgh ($2.5 million) -- No thanks- being a scratch for Pits in the playoffs tells us all we need to know.

Alex Tanguay, Montreal ($5.4 million) -- Never. Overpaid, inconsistent, overrated.

Jason Williams, Columbus ($2.2 million) -- No way. Hasn't changed since he was shipped out, so why bring him back in?