newfy 695 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 You forgot Slava Kozlov. He'll be on the Olympic team before Radulov or Filatov. As far as defensemen go, Andrei Markov, Sergei Gonchar and Sergei Zubov are all pretty damn good defensemen who are capable of playing as well as anyone Canada will be putting on the ice. So it's not so clear cut as to which squad has the best defensemen. I hope you were joking when you said that. They can put up points ya, but so can the Canadian defenceman. The difference is Canada's defence will pound the russians and play stellar defensively too. The russian defence aren't fit to tie the Canadian defender's skates. As for Ovechkin, does anyone remember the World Juniors he was supposed to dominate and did nothing in the championship? Oh yeah thats cause he left the game cause the canadian defence were smashing him every chance they got. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Four Report post Posted July 16, 2009 Canada's defense will pwn Russia's Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Selke13 0 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 If Canada builds the team the way they should, they`ll handle Russia. Less Heatleys more Lucics, but Im sure they`ll make the mistake. I dont think Russias goaltending is strong enough for a victory, if it isnt Canada, I believe the States has a good chance. i was looking at the list of those who were welcomed to the US camp. they looked better than i thought they would, may lack depth though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 i was looking at the list of those who were welcomed to the US camp. they looked better than i thought they would, may lack depth though. yeah I'm more worried about the states then russia. Canada has proven plenty of times that big names like Ovechkin and Kovalchuk can be shut down and if anyone has the defence to do it its Canada. The states just seem to have a more well rounded group of players. Less skill but more physical then the russians. Kinda like a poor man's Canada without the good beer and poutines. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 I hope you were joking when you said that. They can put up points ya, but so can the Canadian defenceman. The difference is Canada's defence will pound the russians and play stellar defensively too. The russian defence aren't fit to tie the Canadian defender's skates. As for Ovechkin, does anyone remember the World Juniors he was supposed to dominate and did nothing in the championship? Oh yeah thats cause he left the game cause the canadian defence were smashing him every chance they got. Yeah, you're talking about the World Juniors Ovi. (I'm assuming you're not talking about the one where he set a new scoring record for the tournament) 2009 Ovi enjoys physical play. Watch some tape dude, he loves hitting and getting hit only riles him up. This isn't Crosby we're talking about- Ovi likes playing physical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 Unless I am mistaken, Nabokov is from Kazakhstan not Russia. He is, but he still plays for Russia in international tournaments. I saw him play in the World Championships in Quebec last year with my own eyes. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 Markov is a joke defensively. He's a turn-over machine. Gonchar's gotten better defensively, but he's still not Norris worthy. I've got a ton of repsect for Zubov though. I just don't see how any of those three can be compared to Pronger or Neidermayer. A healthy Zubov, I would put between Niedermayer and Pronger; and closer to Niedermayer than Pronger. Pronger is good defensively, but he has a HUGE mental liability with regard to taking bad penalties and making bad decisions with the puck. You state that Markov is a turnover machine...Pronger has his share of bad turnovers also. As far as offense, Pronger is easily the worst defenseman mentioned when it comes to puckhandling, passing, and general offensive skill. I'd take Duncan Keith over any of them though. Even Niedermayer. Lidstrom is probably the only guy on my list of defensemen ahead of Keith. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 yeah I'm more worried about the states then russia. Canada has proven plenty of times that big names like Ovechkin and Kovalchuk can be shut down and if anyone has the defence to do it its Canada. The states just seem to have a more well rounded group of players. Less skill but more physical then the russians. Kinda like a poor man's Canada without the good beer and poutines. Russia's team >> USA's team There's too many rediculous offensive threats on the Russian squad to assume they'll all be shut down effectively. Ovi, Malkin, Kovalchuck, Datsyuk, Semin... they have a top 5 that were all dominant last season. Yeah, we've got a great team in Canada, but I doubt we should fear Russia less because they're less physical. The US team is full of young pups with no experience and old wolves with no legs left. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 yeah I'm more worried about the states then russia. Canada has proven plenty of times that big names like Ovechkin and Kovalchuk can be shut down and if anyone has the defence to do it its Canada. The states just seem to have a more well rounded group of players. Less skill but more physical then the russians. Kinda like a poor man's Canada without the good beer and poutines. After a local beer festival, the brewery representatives went to the pub. The representative from Molson said "I'd like the oldest Canadian beer. Give me a Molson Canadian." The representative from Anheuiser-Busch said "I would like the King of Beers. Give me a Bud." The representative from Labatt's said "I would like first dry beer introduced nationally in Canada. Give me a Labatt Dry." The representative from Guinness said "I'll have a Coke." The other three looked at him with a bit of shock, asking "Aren't you going to have a Guinness?" and he said "Well if you aren't having beers, I thought it would be rude if I did." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 A healthy Zubov, I would put between Niedermayer and Pronger; and closer to Niedermayer than Pronger. Pronger is good defensively, but he has a HUGE mental liability with regard to taking bad penalties and making bad decisions with the puck. You state that Markov is a turnover machine...Pronger has his share of bad turnovers also. As far as offense, Pronger is easily the worst defenseman mentioned when it comes to puckhandling, passing, and general offensive skill. I'd take Duncan Keith over any of them though. Even Niedermayer. Lidstrom is probably the only guy on my list of defensemen ahead of Keith. Oh I agree about Zubov- he was unlucky enough to have a career that directly coincided with Lidstrom's years in the NHL. Otherwise he'd have at least 1 Norris by now. When I said Markov was a turn-over machine, I literally meant a turn-over machine. He lead the league in turn-overs this season. Pronger is definitely flawed, but he's definitely better defensively than any of the Russian D-men. Yeah he's not elite as a passer or puck handler, but his slapshot is deadly on the PP. He's similar to Chara in that sense (actually in nearly every respect). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drake_Marcus 890 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 After a local beer festival, the brewery representatives went to the pub. The representative from Molson said "I'd like the oldest Canadian beer. Give me a Molson Canadian." The representative from Anheuiser-Busch said "I would like the King of Beers. Give me a Bud." The representative from Labatt's said "I would like first dry beer introduced nationally in Canada. Give me a Labatt Dry." The representative from Guinness said "I'll have a Coke." The other three looked at him with a bit of shock, asking "Aren't you going to have a Guinness?" and he said "Well if you aren't having beers, I thought it would be rude if I did." lollerskates Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 Oh I agree about Zubov- he was unlucky enough to have a career that directly coincided with Lidstrom's years in the NHL. Otherwise he'd have at least 1 Norris by now. When I said Markov was a turn-over machine, I literally meant a turn-over machine. He lead the league in turn-overs this season. Pronger is definitely flawed, but he's definitely better defensively than any of the Russian D-men. Yeah he's not elite as a passer or puck handler, but his slapshot is deadly on the PP. He's similar to Chara in that sense (actually in nearly every respect). Including the respect that he won a Norris simply for being a big huge physical defenseman who was actually a capable skater and had a notable statistical season? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waitahochiminute 2 Report post Posted July 16, 2009 I would say Sweden has the edge as far as skill is concerned. I hope it's a Swede - Russian final! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sibiriak 84 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 Ovi is the best offensive forward in the game, so yeah- he's better than anyone on the Canadian team. Kovalchuck? Really good, but he's no better than a guy like Vinny Lecavalier. Malkin... the 08-09 Malkin is better than any of the Canadian forwards. Datsyuk? No one on Canada can come close to the combination of his combined offensive and defensive skill level... the only guy close is Getzlaf, but Getzlaf gets lots of point on shear size and strength, while Datsyuk's are 100% skill based, plus Getz can't touch Dats defensively (not that Getz is bad defensively, he's just not Selke good). I'll agree that your top six is superior based on the 08-09 season. Who knows what super elite players will dominate next season. It's not like Iginla, Lacavalier or Crosby haven't dominated the league before. Regardless, I still give you Ovechkin as the best overall offensive forward in the game. What about the bottom 6? Canada's got more depth there. This depends on what kind of team Canada's management decides to go with. In the past OG, they didn't go with NHL-type "top 6, bottom 6" model. They went either with "top 12" or "top 9 with some PK specialists". So far it seems that Canada is going with 4 scoring lines who will get roughly equal icetime. Which means that OV, Malkin and Kovi won't necessarily be matched with a checking line. That favors Russia. More likely, a D-pairing will be matched up to whatever line happens to bes the most dangerous for Russia. We'll see how Canadian D does. I can't wait for the Olympics to start! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HadThomasVokounOnFortSt 878 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 There is two teams that seem to stick out Canada, and Russia. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 Yeah, you're talking about the World Juniors Ovi. (I'm assuming you're not talking about the one where he set a new scoring record for the tournament) 2009 Ovi enjoys physical play. Watch some tape dude, he loves hitting and getting hit only riles him up. This isn't Crosby we're talking about- Ovi likes playing physical. I dunno you might wanna go review your tapes. Ovi was taking runs at all the Canadian players because yeah youre right he loves playing physical. The amount of physical play that Canada brings is what ovi can't take, he got completely thrown off his gamebecause he was trying to play physical. Watch some tape, if Canada makes him concentrate on physical play instead of scoring which they can do Russia will be in trouble. They did it to him once they can do it again. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MaynardJKeenan 1 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 I would say Canada has the best chance of winning but I will be pulling for the US and then Sweden and then Russia. I won't say I hate Canadians, but I strongly dislike them lil bastards. Blame Canada!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 I would say Canada has the best chance of winning but I will be pulling for the US and then Sweden and then Russia. I won't say I hate Canadians, but I strongly dislike them lil bastards. Blame Canada!! I don't blame you for disliking Canada I mean I would be jealous too if i wasn't from here. The health care, nicer people, better beer, and of course by far the best hockey players in the world without a doubt. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sibiriak 84 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 I dunno you might wanna go review your tapes. Ovi was taking runs at all the Canadian players because yeah youre right he loves playing physical. The amount of physical play that Canada brings is what ovi can't take, he got completely thrown off his gamebecause he was trying to play physical. Watch some tape, if Canada makes him concentrate on physical play instead of scoring which they can do Russia will be in trouble. They did it to him once they can do it again. Ovechkin played that tournament with a hurt shoulder. In the Canada game he hurt it again. Which is why he wasn't as effective as he could have been. And that was years ago. You'd do better to form your impression of OV's current game on his play in the NHL. 2 Harts and Lester Pearsons and Richards in a row. Tell me, do you remember any NHL D-man, Canadian or otherwise, being able to take it to Ovechkin physically recently? No? I didn't think so. Were big bad Flyers able to phusically intimidate Malkin this year? How about the Ducks vs Datsyuk? Sorry friend, if Canada is gonna beat Russia, you are going to have to be better in all aspects of hockey. Simple physical intimidation ain't gonna do it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eva unit zero 271 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 I don't blame you for disliking Canada I mean I would be jealous too if i wasn't from here. The health care, nicer people, better beer, and of course by far the best hockey players in the world without a doubt. I am going to preface this with an apology to the mods. You, newfy, are the most arrogant little piece of s*** I have met on these boards in a LONG time. Please try to tone it down. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Selke13 0 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 After a local beer festival, the brewery representatives went to the pub. The representative from Molson said "I'd like the oldest Canadian beer. Give me a Molson Canadian." The representative from Anheuiser-Busch said "I would like the King of Beers. Give me a Bud." The representative from Labatt's said "I would like first dry beer introduced nationally in Canada. Give me a Labatt Dry." The representative from Guinness said "I'll have a Coke." The other three looked at him with a bit of shock, asking "Aren't you going to have a Guinness?" and he said "Well if you aren't having beers, I thought it would be rude if I did." lol good stuff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 Ovechkin played that tournament with a hurt shoulder. In the Canada game he hurt it again. Which is why he wasn't as effective as he could have been. And that was years ago. You'd do better to form your impression of OV's current game on his play in the NHL. 2 Harts and Lester Pearsons and Richards in a row. Tell me, do you remember any NHL D-man, Canadian or otherwise, being able to take it to Ovechkin physically recently? No? I didn't think so. Were big bad Flyers able to phusically intimidate Malkin this year? How about the Ducks vs Datsyuk? Sorry friend, if Canada is gonna beat Russia, you are going to have to be better in all aspects of hockey. Simple physical intimidation ain't gonna do it. I'm not saying Ovi isn't amazing at hockey but I just don't like how people make it seem like he's going to single handedly bring a gold medal to russia. I'm also not saying Canada playing goon hockey is gonna scare him til he can't play anymore. I'm saying Canada has the ability to play shut down defence on him. Those russian super stars are absolutely amazing at hockey but Ovi hasn't faced a defence stocked top to bottom with capable shut down defenders. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newfy 695 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 I am going to preface this with an apology to the mods. You, newfy, are the most arrogant little piece of s*** I have met on these boards in a LONG time. Please try to tone it down. I'm not sure where youre getting arrogant from maybe it came across as that but I would like to think of it more as proud. If that one little comment hurt your feelings that much I guess i can tone it down for you. If I pissed anyone off with my "arrogant comment" then I'm sorry. And if that makes me the most arrogant little s*** on these boards in a long time then I guess this is a pretty soft board if that little remark makes me worthy of that title Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
titanium2 867 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 I'm not sure where youre getting arrogant from maybe it came across as that but I would like to think of it more as proud. If that one little comment hurt your feelings that much I guess i can tone it down for you. If I pissed anyone off with my "arrogant comment" then I'm sorry. And if that makes me the most arrogant little s*** on these boards in a long time then I guess this is a pretty soft board if that little remark makes me worthy of that title For three out of four, it's understandable that you would be so proud and confident. I don't know about the best hockey players in the world though. That's a pretty big claim. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stillwater 186 Report post Posted July 17, 2009 It's great to be Patriotic. It's dumb to suggest, even remotely, that Ovechkin won't be a force. I'm still trying to wrap my head around who all these great "shutdown" defenders are though. I'm Canadian. This won't be easy by any stretch. There are going to be some very good teams. Don't let your Patriotism cloud that fact. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
