Team Russia

[newfy 695]

It's great to be Patriotic. It's dumb to suggest, even remotely, that Ovechkin won't be a force.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around who all these great "shutdown" defenders are though.

I'm Canadian. This won't be easy by any stretch. There are going to be some very good teams. Don't let your Patriotism cloud that fact.

I'm definitely not saying Ovechkin won't be a force, I'm just trying to say that russia has like 5 superstars and then a pretty weak bottom 6 forwards and next to nothing on defence especially defensive defenseman. I know Ovechkin wins awards but its a team game and Canada has a much deeper team and its been proven by teh Canadians once that Ovi can be taken off his game.

[stillwater 186]

I know Ovechkin wins awards but its a team game and Canada has a much deeper team and its been proven by teh Canadians once that Ovi can be taken off his game.

So once? Is "once" a big enough sample set?

What was he, 19 then? Come on.

[newfy 695]

For three out of four, it's understandable that you would be so proud and confident. I don't know about the best hockey players in the world though. That's a pretty big claim.

This is going to come across arrogant most likely but youre just begging me to act like this it seems. When you think back on the past and hockey's greats I don't think you can name 6 people from the world combined that are better then Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Yzerman or Orr. I know it sounds arrogant but you kind of asked for it

[stillwater 186]

This is going to come across arrogant most likely but youre just begging me to act like this it seems. When you think back on the past and hockey's greats I don't think you can name 6 people from the world combined that are better then Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Yzerman or Orr. I know it sounds arrogant but you kind of asked for it

That's only 5. I guess math is not a Canadian strongpoint.

Edited July 17, 2009 by stillwater

[titanium2 867]

This is going to come across arrogant most likely but youre just begging me to act like this it seems. When you think back on the past and hockey's greats I don't think you can name 6 people from the world combined that are better then Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Yzerman or Orr. I know it sounds arrogant but you kind of asked for it

Let's say it were feasible for us to see Olympic hockey for 82 games a year. That's 82 games under Olympic style rules. You think Canada would win the gold enough in order to merit "best players in the world" status?

I just think it's a little too easy for us to think players from Canada are the best in the world because if you think about the majority of our exposure to hockey is within North American rinks, North American style and North American rules. There's nothing wrong with that but when you play a more international style it's not quite as easy as labeling Canada the favorite and saying they have the best players in the world without a doubt.

[newfy 695]

That's only 5. I guess math is not a Canadian strongpoint.

Messier was supposed to be listed in there as well but I had to retype what I original post was going to say because I didnt want it to come across as too arrogant for you it seems like your feelings are pretty hurt already by the way youre all pissed off

[titanium2 867]

That's only 5. I guess math is not a Canadian strongpoint.

That's his point. He's claiming that we can't name 6 players which would be more than the 5 we listed, more equaling better.

[newfy 695]

Let's say it were feasible for us to see Olympic hockey for 82 games a year. That's 82 games under Olympic style rules. You think Canada would win the gold enough in order to merit "best players in the world" status?

I just think it's a little too easy for us to think players from Canada are the best in the world because if you think about the majority of our exposure to hockey is within North American rinks, North American style and North American rules. There's nothing wrong with that but when you play a more international style it's not quite as easy as labeling Canada the favorite and saying they have the best players in the world without a doubt.

Yeah I see what youre saying there but you also should consider the depth would come into effect over that 82 games. I think Canada is at an advantage there as well.

[stillwater 186]

I didnt want it to come across as too arrogant for you it seems like your feelings are pretty hurt already by the way youre all pissed off

Believe me, you can't hurt my feelings.

I'm Canadian, you picked that up already, right.

In my mind Pavel Datsyuk is the best all round player in the NHL. Ovechkin is the most dangerous player, in many ways. Malkin and Zetterberg are very good as well. None are Canadian.

Revisionist history is boring.

[newfy 695]

Believe me, you can't hurt my feelings.

I'm Canadian, you picked that up already, right.

In my mind Pavel Datsyuk is the best all round player in the NHL. Ovechkin is the most dangerous player, in many ways. Malkin and Zetterberg are very good as well. None are Canadian.

Revisionist history is boring.

I'll agree on Datsyuk and Ovechkin. But there are so many good Canadian players as well. I'm not saying other countries don't have players that can match up with Canada's but there are so many amazing players from Canada that our depth is twice that of most countries. Getzlaf, Lecalvier, Crosby, Iginla, Nash. If you made a list of the top 30 all around players in the NHL 15 would be canadians that might come across arrogant but I think its a pretty fair statement

[titanium2 867]

Yeah I see what youre saying there but you also should consider the depth would come into effect over that 82 games. I think Canada is at an advantage there as well.

Canada has depth in that they can easily put out a full roster. They won't have as much trouble finding 23 men who can play some hockey. But it's not like Russia or Sweden are barely able to meet that number in terms of finding the type of players they want who can execute the kind of style they want to play. Canada as we know has overwhelming depth, but what does it matter when you only have 23 spots? Depth is nice, but you're only trying to make food for the immediate family here not the whole extended family.

Plus countries like Sweden and Finland have many players that just prefer to stay home because it's home and they strongly favor a more international style. They can definitely be of service to their teams. We just don't know about them and some of us don't even care to learn about them because we can't pronounce their names or whatever.

[newfy 695]

Canada has depth in that they can easily put out a full roster. They won't have as much trouble finding 23 men who can play some hockey. But it's not like Russia or Sweden are barely able to meet that number in terms of finding the type of players they want who can execute the kind of style they want to play. Canada as we know has overwhelming depth, but what does it matter when you only have 23 spots? Depth is nice, but you're only trying to make food for the immediate family here not the whole extended family.

Plus countries like Sweden and Finland have many players that just prefer to stay home because it's home and they strongly favor a more international style. They can definitely be of service to their teams. We just don't know about them and some of us don't even care to learn about them because we can't pronounce their names or whatever.

First off, love the food analogy really got your point across

Second, youre right all those countries will have good team with serviceable players

Last, I think Canada will find it easier to find superstars to fill out their 23 man roster. Russia and Sweden will all have some superstars on their teams but top to bottom Canada will have more of the stars as a result of their depth and amount of players from Canada

[titanium2 867]

First off, love the food analogy really got your point across

Second, youre right all those countries will have good team with serviceable players

Last, I think Canada will find it easier to find superstars to fill out their 23 man roster. Russia and Sweden will all have some superstars on their teams but top to bottom Canada will have more of the stars as a result of their depth and amount of players from Canada

So what you're really arguing is that Canada has more superstars? That's actually a whole new different area. The whole concept of a superstar does not exist unless a player has ability and publicity. The ability part is rather simple. The publicity part, for better or worse, is where it gets foggy, and not many Europeans get it here and yet without a doubt it influences our perceptions, for example, that guy in Pittsburgh I like to call whiny face. So, in the end, my opinion on that is we'll never know in terms of just hockey because now we're talking about a more political side of the NHL.

[stillwater 186]

Great, you love Canada and think Canadian players are great. That about it?

Canada has more players in the NHL than any other country. Got it.

Canada is the Olympic favorite. Got it.

You think Canada has more depth than any other country, got it.

If I post a list of the 30 best NHL players, and 15 aren't from Canada, you'll respond with "OK 30 of the best 60 NHL players are from Canada". Got it.

At some point you'll be right. But you've already made YOUR point, ad nauseam, ok?

EDIT: spelling

Edited July 17, 2009 by stillwater

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Including the respect that he won a Norris simply for being a big huge physical defenseman who was actually a capable skater and had a notable statistical season?

Actually, yes- exactly that respect.

[Drake_Marcus 890]

Great, you love Canada and think Canadian players are great. That about it?

Canada has more players in the NHL than any other country. Got it.

Canada is the Olympic favorite. Got it.

You think Canada has more depth than any other country, got it.

If I post a list of the 30 best NHL players, and 15 aren't from Canada, you'll respond with "OK 30 of the best 60 NHL players are from Canada". Got it.

At some point you'll be right. But you've already made YOUR point, ad nauseam, ok?

EDIT: spelling

We also hold more than 70% of the Earth's fresh water. Don't f*** with us. We'll give you the pee water.

[eva unit zero 271]

Messier was supposed to be listed in there as well but I had to retype what I original post was going to say because I didnt want it to come across as too arrogant for you it seems like your feelings are pretty hurt already by the way youre all pissed off

You clearly don't have much of a grasp of hockey history. You make the challenge to name six players who are better than the six Canadians you named?

I can name ten Canadian centers you didn't name who were better than Messier. That doesn't even count the other positions. Just centers.

Please. Grow up, learn more about hockey, and stop trolling with your arrogant "Canada is better than everyone else, so anyone who doesn't submit to Canada sucks" posting attitude. If you want to post, fine. If you want to support your country, fine. Just don't be an ass about it.

[Detroit # 1 Fan 2,204]

You clearly don't have much of a grasp of hockey history. You make the challenge to name six players who are better than the six Canadians you named?

I can name ten Canadian centers you didn't name who were better than Messier. That doesn't even count the other positions. Just centers.

Please. Grow up, learn more about hockey, and stop trolling with your arrogant "Canada is better than everyone else, so anyone who doesn't submit to Canada sucks" posting attitude. If you want to post, fine. If you want to support your country, fine. Just don't be an ass about it.

2nd most points all time, 6 Stanley Cups, one of the greatest warriors of all time. Mess was one of the best, I can only think of Gretzky, Lemieux, and Yzerman being better then him, and I really dont believe much others even have a case.

[Sperber 0]

All around Canada's top 12 forwards are better IMO, the top 6 offensively are close, possibly an advantage to Russia, but when you have a potential checking line of NHL captains like Morrow-Richards-Doan, that's where Canada has a huge advantage.

holy hell, that checking line IS amazing, although I'd love to see the russians rise to olympic glory once again...

[stillwater 186]

Jean Beliveau, Howie Morenz, Bryan Trottier, Phil Esposito, Newsy Lalonde, Marcel Dionne.

The knock on Messier is that, arguably, at no point was he ever the League's best player ...

[newfy 695]

You clearly don't have much of a grasp of hockey history. You make the challenge to name six players who are better than the six Canadians you named?

I can name ten Canadian centers you didn't name who were better than Messier. That doesn't even count the other positions. Just centers.

Please. Grow up, learn more about hockey, and stop trolling with your arrogant "Canada is better than everyone else, so anyone who doesn't submit to Canada sucks" posting attitude. If you want to post, fine. If you want to support your country, fine. Just don't be an ass about it.

I would like to see this list of 10 centers better then Messier. If you can make a list of 10 centers better then Messier I will stop posting on these forums so you won't have to deal with my "Canada is better than everyone else, so anyone who doesn't submit to Canada sucks" posting attitude." I was backing up my statements with facts so I think most of them were justified, there's nothing wrong with a little disagreement in a conversation.

[stillwater 186]

I will stop posting on these forums so you won't have to deal with my "Canada is better than everyone else, so anyone who doesn't submit to Canada sucks" posting attitude."

No one should have to deal with that attitude to begin with.

I'd name ten, you'd tell me I'm wrong ... what's the point of the exercise?

[stactum 4]

Just so you know, Canada NEVER won a game against Russia/Soviet on Winter Olympics so if I would be Canadian I wouldn't want to face Russia in the medal round.

Canada also lost 2 last WCH finals too.

[BlakKy 58]

Just so you know, Canada NEVER won a game against Russia/Soviet on Winter Olympics so if I would be Canadian I wouldn't want to face Russia in the medal round.

Canada also lost 2 last WCH finals too.

Russia will go down to Finland...

Canada will cruise in for gold without having to play Russia. =P

[newfy 695]

No one should have to deal with that attitude to begin with.

I'd name ten, you'd tell me I'm wrong ... what's the point of the exercise?

I would tell you youre wrong because there isn't 10 centers let alone players that you could name that are better then Messier. He had to play in Gretzky's shadow thats why he gets less respect then he deserves.