Osgood NOT Hall Worthy?

[SouthernWingsFan 854]

He just isn't hall-of-fame worthy and not good enough and spare me the number of wins that's all about the team.. he's won 2 cups as a starting goalie.. question is if thats enough for the hall... there are many players who won the cup 2 times.

What determines hall of fame worthiness and why isn't he good enough?

I never said anything about the number of wins.

Osgood is part of the team as well.

Yes there are many players who won the Cup 2 times.

[Coolio Mendez 7]

No, he does NOT belong in the HOF

There are three goaltenders who will go in before him

Martin Brodeur, Dominik Hasek, and Ed Belfour

Lets compare him to his peers.

Vezinas Finalist (the award voted on by NHL GMs)

10 Dominik Hasek (6 - 0 - 4)

9 Martin Brodeur (4-3-2)

7 Ed Belfour (2-1-4)

1 Chris Osgood (0-1-0)

So, the GMs have NEVER thought that Osgood was the best goaltender, and only ONCE in his career have they felt he was top 3

International Competition (players picked for these tend to hand picked by GMs)

Dominik Hasek

1 Olympic Gold Medal (1998)

1 Olympic Bronze Medal (2006)

1 World Championship Gold Medal (1996)

3 World Championship Bronze Medals (1987, 1989, 1990)

Represented Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic at 5 Canada Cup/World Cups, 5 Olympics, and 6 World Championships

Martin Brodeur

1 Olympic Gold Medal (2002)

1 Canada Cup/World Cup Gold Medal (2004)

1 Canada Cup/World Cup Silver Medal (1996)

2 World Championship Silver Medals (1996, 2005)

Ed Belfour

1 Olympic Gold Medal (2002)

2 Canada Cup/World Cup Gold Medals (1991, 2004)

Chris Osgood

- has never been selected to represent Canada

Again, the powers that be have never felt Osgood worthy of International Competition, while these others have represented their countries (and won) numerous times.

Total Awards

13 Hasek (Pearson (98, 98), Hart (97, 98), Vezina (94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 01), Jennings (94, 01, 08)

9 Brodeur (Calder (94), Vezina (03, 04, 07, 08), Jennings (97, 98, 03, 04)

8 Belfour (Calder (91), Vezina (91, 93), Jennings (91, 93, 95, 99), Crozier (00))

2 Osgood (Jennings (96, 08)

Note - Osgood has NEVER won an individual award.

40 Win Seasons

7 Brodeur

2 Belfour

1 Hasek

0 Osgood

Again - on the bottom

30 Win Seasons

12 Brodeur

9 Belfour

7 Hasek

6 Osgood

Again - on the bottom

Shutout Titles

4 Brodeur

4 Hasek

4 Belfour

0 Osgood

I'm sensing a pattern here

Career Post Season All-Star Teams

7 Brodeur (03, 04, 07 1st Team, 97, 98, 06, 08 2nd Team)

6 Hasek (94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 01 1st Team)

3 Belfour (91, 93 1st Team, 95 2nd Team)

1 Osgood (96 2nd Team)

The pattern continues

Career Shutouts

101 Brodeur (1 every 9.89 games)

81 Hasek (1 every 9.07 games)

76 Belfour (1 every 12.67 games)

49 Osgood (1 every 14.49 games)

Career Wins

557 Brodeur

484 Belfour

389 Osgood

389 Hasek

Career Save Percentage

0.922 Hasek

0.914 Brodeur

0.9064 Belfour

0.9058 Osgood

The Comparisons - Winning Percentage

Teams that Brodeur has played on have a winning percentage of 0.617 (699-400-179). Brodeur is at 0.631 (557-299-128). So, Brodeur's teams have played worse when he's not playing (142-101-51 or 0.569). A difference of +0.062

Teams that Hasek played on had a winning percentage of 0.594 (670-429-179). Hasek is at 0.617 (389-223-95). So, Hasek's teams have played worse when he's not playing (281-206-84 or 0.566). A difference of +0.051

Teams that Belfour played on had a winning percentage of 0.573 (681-481-200). Belfour is at 0.589 (484-320-125). So, Belfour's teams have played worse when he's not playing (197-161-75 or 0.542). A difference of +0.047

Teams that Osgood has played on have a winning percentage of 0.646 (693-344-161). Osgood is at 0.636 (389-204-89). So, Osgood's teams play better when he's not in net (304-140-72 or 0.659)

So, out of these 4, 3 of them made their teams better - 1 of them (Osgood) did not.

Also, if Stanley Cups got you into the Hall of Fame - Andy Moog and Michel Larocque would be there! (and Larocque has several Vezinas)

When players are selected for ther Hall of Fame, they are compared against their peers. Osgood fails against his peers.

Edited July 25, 2009 by Coolio Mendez

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Sorry, but these Osgood numbers are a product of being on arguably the best team of the past 15 years. If Osgood had been with the Blues his entire career this wouldn't even be a discussion. Osgood is not hall worthy because he has never been that great of a goaltender. I'll give Osgood 2008. Because for the first time in his career he looked a little above average. But that's all. Other then that, he's mediocre at best. He's just lucky he has played for the Red Wings for the majority of his career. No way Osgood makes the hall.

Edited July 25, 2009 by TheDetroitRedWings

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

He just isn't hall-of-fame worthy and not good enough and spare me the number of wins that's all about the team.. he's won 2 cups as a starting goalie.. question is if thats enough for the hall... there are many players who won the cup 2 times.

Agreed.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

No, he does not belong in the HOF

There are three goaltenders does who will go in before him

Martin Brodeur, Dominik Hasek, and Ed Belfour

Of those 4 goaltenders, let's look at their careers

Vezinas Finalist (the award voted on by NHL GMs)

10 Dominik Hasek (6 - 0 - 4)

9 Martin Brodeur (4-3-2)

7 Ed Belfour (2-1-4)

1 Chris Osgood (0-1-0)

So, the GMs have NEVER thought that Osgood was the best goaltender, and only ONCE in his career have they felt he was top 3

International Competition (players picked for these tend to hand picked by GMs)

Dominik Hasek

1 Olympic Gold Medal (1998)

1 Olympic Bronze Medal (2006)

1 World Championship Gold Medal (1996)

3 World Championship Bronze Medals (1987, 1989, 1990)

Represented Czechoslovakia/Czech Republic at 5 Canada Cup/World Cups, 5 Olympics, and 6 World Championships

Martin Brodeur

1 Olympic Gold Medal (2002)

1 Canada Cup/World Cup Gold Medal (2004)

1 Canada Cup/World Cup Silver Medal (1996)

2 World Championship Silver Medals (1996, 2005)

Ed Belfour

1 Olympic Gold Medal (2002)

2 Canada Cup/World Cup Gold Medals (1991, 2004)

Chris Osgood

- has never been selected to represent Canada

Again, the powers that be have never felt Osgood worthy of International Competition, while these others have represented their countries (and won) numerous times.

Total Awards

13 Hasek (Pearson (98, 98), Hart (97, 98), Vezina (94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 01), Jennings (94, 01, 08)

9 Brodeur (Calder (94), Vezina (03, 04, 07, 08), Jennings (97, 98, 03, 04)

8 Belfour (Calder (91), Vezina (91, 93), Jennings (91, 93, 95, 99), Crozier (00))

2 Osgood (Jennings (96, 08)

Note - Osgood has NEVER won an individual award.

40 Win Seasons

7 Brodeur

2 Belfour

1 Hasek

0 Osgood

Again - on the bottom

30 Win Seasons

12 Brodeur

9 Belfour

7 Hasek

6 Osgood

Again - on the bottom

Shutout Titles

4 Brodeur

4 Hasek

4 Belfour

0 Osgood

I'm sensing a pattern here

Career Post Season All-Star Teams

7 Brodeur (03, 04, 07 1st Team, 97, 98, 06, 08 2nd Team)

6 Hasek (94, 95, 97, 98, 99, 01 1st Team)

3 Belfour (91, 93 1st Team, 95 2nd Team)

1 Osgood (96 2nd Team)

The pattern continues

Career Shutouts

101 Brodeur (1 every 9.89 games)

81 Hasek (1 every 9.07 games)

76 Belfour (1 every 12.67 games)

49 Osgood (1 every 14.49 games)

Career Wins

557 Brodeur

484 Belfour

389 Osgood

389 Hasek

Career Save Percentage

0.922 Hasek

0.914 Brodeur

0.9064 Belfour

0.9058 Osgood

The Comparisons - Winning Percentage

Teams that Brodeur has played on have a winning percentage of 0.617 (699-400-179). Brodeur is at 0.631 (557-299-128). So, Brodeur's teams have played worse when he's not playing (142-101-51 or 0.569). A difference of +0.062

Teams that Hasek played on had a winning percentage of 0.594 (670-429-179). Hasek is at 0.617 (389-223-95). So, Hasek's teams have played worse when he's not playing (281-206-84 or 0.566). A difference of +0.051

Teams that Belfour played on had a winning percentage of 0.573 (681-481-200). Belfour is at 0.589 (484-320-125). So, Belfour's teams have played worse when he's not playing (197-161-75 or 0.542). A difference of +0.047

Teams that Osgood has played on have a winning percentage of 0.646 (693-344-161). Osgood is at 0.636 (389-204-89). So, Osgood's teams play better when he's not in net (304-140-72 or 0.659)

So, out of these 4, 3 of them made their teams better - 1 of them (Osgood) did not.

Also, if Stanley Cups got you into the Hall of Fame - Andy Moog and Michel Larocque would be there! (and Larocque has several Vezinas)

When players are selected for ther Hall of Fame, they are compared against their peers. Osgood fails against his peers.

How refreshing to see some fellow Red Wings fans that don't always see things through their red goggles.

[Pavel Hossyukstrom 2]

He's came anywhere near a Vezina trophy once. That's why he's iffy with me. He may, he may not, but not a first-year guy.

He and Cujo I think are a lot alike, except Osgood wins in the playoffs and that's his biggest plus.

Yeah Jim Carey won it that year. POS And where is he now?? I hate one year wonders. Ozzie got robbed that year IMO.

[Pavel Hossyukstrom 2]

Sorry, but these Osgood numbers are a product of being on arguably the best team of the past 15 years. If Osgood had been with the Blues his entire career this wouldn't even be a discussion. Osgood is not hall worthy because he has never been that great of a goaltender. I'll give Osgood 2008. Because for the first time in his career he looked a little above average. But that's all. Other then that, he's mediocre at best. He's just lucky he has played for the Red Wings for the majority of his career. No way Osgood makes the hall.

uhhh, didn't he win 30+ games season with the Blues and Islanders??

[Dimaline312000 51]

Ozzie is definetly Hall Worthy. He'll be close to Jacques Plante by the time next regular season is over or close to being over. He is a great goalie and I really wish he would have won the Cup again and got the Conn Smythe Trophy maybe that would have shut these nay-sayers up. Ozzie deserves to be in the Hockey Hall of Fame when he retires. How can you argue with 3 Cups not to metion everything else he's done.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

uhhh, didn't he win 30+ games season with the Blues and Islanders??

Yeah and the one year he did it with the Islanders, they were actually a good team. They were a playoff team that year. It's not like Osgood put the team on his back or anything. And after that one season the Islanders cleaned house and lost several key guys. And of course, Osgood's numbers nose-dived immediately. Basically the same story goes for his time with the Blues, except that first year the Blues were not just playoff contenders, they were Cup contenders. Then they too lost some key pieces. And of course, Osgood's numbers nose-dive.

Osgood is not an elite goaltender. He never was. He will never be. He is mediocre at best. Hense the fact that he's never won an individual award in his entire career. Osgood is not Hall worthy.

[edicius 3,269]

nice daily dose of sarcasm, are you saying that while Brodeur has EARNED his stats that Ozzie has had it easy his entire career?

Actually, my sarcasm went the other way.

For those people that claim that Ozzie had it easy his entire career, playing behind skilled, defensive Detroit teams, people could easily say the same thing about Brodeur in Jersey. So if Ozzie had it easy and is not HoF-worthy, logically, the same thing must be said of Marty. On the flip side, if Marty earned his stats playing behind those defensively strong teams Jersey teams, logically, the same must be said of Ozzie.

In an odd way, Ozzie has one up on Brodeur - he hasn't been on one team his whole career and in those years he played on the Isles and Blues, he took those teams to the playoffs, despite them not being as defensively skilled/talented/etc. as teams like the Devils or Wings. We'll never get to see how Marty would have performed on another team.

Another odd stat? IIRC, Ozzie has never been on a team that missed the playoffs in his NHL career. Even those Isles/Blues teams made the playoffs each season he played for them. Marty has actually missed the playoffs once in his career, in 1995-96, the year after the Devils won their first Cup.

Now, I'm not trying to say Ozzie is Marty Brodeur - he's not. But the same arguments that we use for Marty logically have to apply for Ozzie and vice versa.

Ozzie's not a first-balloter like Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour, etc., but he's a goaltender who deserves a nod at some point in time.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

Sorry, but these Osgood numbers are a product of being on arguably the best team of the past 15 years. If Osgood had been with the Blues his entire career this wouldn't even be a discussion. Osgood is not hall worthy because he has never been that great of a goaltender. I'll give Osgood 2008. Because for the first time in his career he looked a little above average. But that's all. Other then that, he's mediocre at best. He's just lucky he has played for the Red Wings for the majority of his career. No way Osgood makes the hall.

Ya, and if an Orange were purple would it still be caleld na Orange? Dude, put Brodeur or Roy or Belfour on St. Louis their entire careers, are they were they are now? OF course you are going to say yes, but the answer i WHO ******* KNOWS!?!? All you Manny Legace lovers need to open your eyes. Osgood has the numbers, he has the stats, he has everything he needs. I cannot believe you guys actually think that finishing 5th all time in wins and wherever he may end up GAA, SO & SAV. Right now those numbers are great too! Individual awards don't put you into the Hall, its is what you meant to the success of the sport, and if Osgood retires leading in almost EVERY stat for the Red Wings, then he is in. All those awards that the GMs vote for, I am sure glad the writers vote for the Hall of Fame...

[Zack is Great 14]

I find it hilarious that the goalie who backstopped the most successful team of the last 2 decades is discounted because his team is good.

Hold the phone guys, Derek Jeter> Yeah, no HoF he played for the Yankees.

Gordie Howe? Wtf hell no he played for the Red Wings.

Wayne Gretzky are you kidding me? He played in the 80s and on a super stacked team, NO WAY he should get in.

The only thing that could possibly keep Osgood out of the hall is peoples perceptions.

People think of Roy and they think of all his witty one liners, his Stanley Cup Rings in his ears, and the press fiasco he caused when he left Montreal.

People think Belfour and they think a Goalie who was just as likely to make a great save as to throw a drunked raged inspired temper tantrum. Not to mention his women beating and police resisting ways, but if there is anything an American loves it's loud obnoxious athletes.

Brodeur, well, I'll give it to you here. When he's not winning, Brodeur also loves to not lose. He also likes to nail his brothers in laws wives, get divorced and then marry said mistress. Or am I the only one who remembers that?

Meanwhile, Chris Osgood wins ass tons of Hockey Games, has 3 Stanley Cup rings and numbers comparable to all those goalies. But I guess winning and being successful just isn't good enough, huh?

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

I find it hilarious that the goalie who backstopped the most successful team of the last 2 decades is discounted because his team is good.

Hold the phone guys, Derek Jeter> Yeah, no HoF he played for the Yankees.

Gordie Howe? Wtf hell no he played for the Red Wings.

Wayne Gretzky are you kidding me? He played in the 80s and on a super stacked team, NO WAY he should get in.

The only thing that could possibly keep Osgood out of the hall is peoples perceptions.

People think of Roy and they think of all his witty one liners, his Stanley Cup Rings in his ears, and the press fiasco he caused when he left Montreal.

People think Belfour and they think a Goalie who was just as likely to make a great save as to throw a drunked raged inspired temper tantrum. Not to mention his women beating and police resisting ways, but if there is anything an American loves it's loud obnoxious athletes.

Brodeur, well, I'll give it to you here. When he's not winning, Brodeur also loves to not lose. He also likes to nail his brothers in laws wives, get divorced and then marry said mistress. Or am I the only one who remembers that?

Meanwhile, Chris Osgood wins ass tons of Hockey Games, has 3 Stanley Cup rings and numbers comparable to all those goalies. But I guess winning and being successful just isn't good enough, huh?

Your analogies don't make sense here. Guys like Jeter and Howe are/were great individually as players. Just so happens they played for elite organizations. Put Howe on any other team and he would still have been an elite forward. Put Jeter on any other team and he would still be an elite shortstop. I'm just going by individual skill and talent. Yes Osgood has impressive career stats. Especially the 2 cups as a starter. But when I think of a hall of famer, I think of someone who was elite and had exceptional skill and talent. Thats what I view as the most important thing when choosing a hall of famer. Not being a mediocre goalie riding the coat-tails of a great organization.

[vOrophin 5]

While he has never represented Canada in international play, as pointed out before, it wasn't because he wasn't good enough, just that there were better. He might have been better than some of the other goalies to play in the Olympics or World Championships, but was not the best Canada had to offer. And while it is a negative, I don't think it discludes him wholly from entering the HOF. If he gets another ring or a gold medal, or climbs up to around #4-5 on the alltime wins list I think he has a good shot, but will not be definite.

[Zack is Great 14]

Your analogies don't make sense here. Guys like Jeter and Howe are/were great individually as players. Just so happens they played for elite organizations. Put Howe on any other team and he would still have been an elite forward. Put Jeter on any other team and he would still be an elite shortstop. I'm just going by individual skill and talent. Yes Osgood has impressive career stats. Especially the 2 cups as a starter. But when I think of a hall of famer, I think of someone who was elite and had exceptional skill and talent. Thats what I view as the most important thing when choosing a hall of famer. Not being a mediocre goalie riding the coat-tails of a great organization.

Look at the other teams Osgood has played for St. Louis and the Islanders have been the butt of a joke for this decade, and yet suddenly when Osgood got on those teams, they made the playoffs.

Now why was that? Did Osgood just happen to show up when those teams got their act together, and when he left they fell apart just as quick? Or was Osgood a large part of that success?

Osgood is elite, and he is exceptionally skilled and talented. What has he ever done to prove otherwise?

Patrick Roy and Marty Brodeur never once played on a poor team. Never did they have a poor defense in front of them. If Roy had played on the Florida Panthers his entire career, or the 1990s Tampa Bay Lightning, do you think people would be calling him an elite goalie?

[Coolio Mendez 7]

HHOF goalies are not put on waivers in their prime!

HHOF goalies aren't paid a million bucks! (maybe in the 80's)

HHOF goalies play internationally

HHOF goalies win individual awards

HHOF goalies are PERENNIAL all stars

Don't we let guys into the Hall too easily as it is?

The other telling stat is the won lost record. The fact that Osgood's teams do better when he's not in net is a very telling sign.

Osgood has NEVER won an individual award. The Red Wings won 2 of the 3 Cups (97, 08) with him as the designanted back-up. Had Hasek not faltered in 08, Osgood sits on the bench all playoffs. But Hasek faltered, and Osgood came through. But again, 5 Stanley Cup Finals, Only 2 as the designated starter (98, and 09), and only 3 rings. Roy won 4 Stanley Cups in 5 attempts. Fuhr won 5 Stanley Cups in 6 attempts, Brodeur is 3 for 3, and Billy Smith was 4 for 5. Just another place where Osgood just misses.

Again, Osgood is in the same category as Vernon, Richter, Vanbeisbrouck, Barrasso, Burke, and Joseph. A better than average goaltender who played a lot of years and put up some big numbers. But only belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

HHOF goalies are not put on waivers in their prime!

HHOF goalies aren't paid a million bucks! (maybe in the 80's)

HHOF goalies play internationally

HHOF goalies win individual awards

HHOF goalies are PERENNIAL all stars

Don't we let guys into the Hall too easily as it is?

The other telling stat is the won lost record. The fact that Osgood's teams do better when he's not in net is a very telling sign.

Osgood has NEVER won an individual award. The Red Wings won 2 of the 3 Cups (97, 08) with him as the designanted back-up. Had Hasek not faltered in 08, Osgood sits on the bench all playoffs. But Hasek faltered, and Osgood came through. But again, 5 Stanley Cup Finals, Only 2 as the designated starter (98, and 09), and only 3 rings. Roy won 4 Stanley Cups in 5 attempts. Fuhr won 5 Stanley Cups in 6 attempts, Brodeur is 3 for 3, and Billy Smith was 4 for 5. Just another place where Osgood just misses.

Again, Osgood is in the same category as Vernon, Richter, Vanbeisbrouck, Barrasso, Burke, and Joseph. A better than average goaltender who played a lot of years and put up some big numbers. But only belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

Excellent points. 100% agreed. Even the red goggle wearing fans will have a hard time disputing that post. What I love about it is it's not just an opinion. Those are facts people. Hard to argue with facts.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

HHOF goalies are not put on waivers in their prime!

HHOF goalies aren't paid a million bucks! (maybe in the 80's)

HHOF goalies play internationally

HHOF goalies win individual awards

HHOF goalies are PERENNIAL all stars

Don't we let guys into the Hall too easily as it is?

The other telling stat is the won lost record. The fact that Osgood's teams do better when he's not in net is a very telling sign.

Osgood has NEVER won an individual award. The Red Wings won 2 of the 3 Cups (97, 08) with him as the designanted back-up. Had Hasek not faltered in 08, Osgood sits on the bench all playoffs. But Hasek faltered, and Osgood came through. But again, 5 Stanley Cup Finals, Only 2 as the designated starter (98, and 09), and only 3 rings. Roy won 4 Stanley Cups in 5 attempts. Fuhr won 5 Stanley Cups in 6 attempts, Brodeur is 3 for 3, and Billy Smith was 4 for 5. Just another place where Osgood just misses.

Again, Osgood is in the same category as Vernon, Richter, Vanbeisbrouck, Barrasso, Burke, and Joseph. A better than average goaltender who played a lot of years and put up some big numbers. But only belongs in the Hall of Very Good.

...and had Malkin been suspended for game 3, the Wings would have won back to back Cups. If I hadn't hit snooze 3 times this moring, I wouldn't have been late for work! If I had pulled out on time, I wouldn't........ well, maybe I would have, but if I would've looked left instead of right I would have never met my wife and if I would've chosen Ham instead of Trukey, I might weigh a little more...

[55fan 5,133]

...and had Malkin been suspended for game 3, the Wings would have won back to back Cups. If I hadn't hit snooze 3 times this moring, I wouldn't have been late for work! If I had pulled out on time, I wouldn't........ well, maybe I would have, but if I would've looked left instead of right I would have never met my wife and if I would've chosen Ham instead of Trukey, I might weigh a little more...

...and if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his ass.

Any of those "ifs" could just as easily apply to anyone (as LeftWinger is pointing out).

No Statue of Liberty, and the Avs could have repeated in '02.

One less crossbar, and the Wings could have repeated in '09.

MA Fleury doesn't sit on the puck, and who knows if the Wings would have been looking to repeat this season or looking for vengeance for '08.

How many things are out of the control of the goalie?

Had Pronger successfully nailed Stevie in '02, would the Wings have still gone to win?

Would we have won with a healthy Schneids and Kronner in '07?

What if we'd gotten Edler instead of Franzen?

What if the Kings would have said, "Late round pics don't matter much. Take a shy Russian this year and maybe we'll settle for a skinny Swede sometime too."?

I'm sure you all see the point, and that you all know this.

A goalie can be the most important member of the team, but he win games by himself.

The only thing a perfect goalie can guarantee is a tie, and even that is a bold statement. Someone has to provide the scoring. Ok, Ozzie can do that too, but not every game.

The next couple of years will make or break Ozzie's quest for the Hall. A Conn Smythe would clinch him IMO, but he can't do that by himself either.

Only 4 guys get in at a time. The question will be whether or not there are 4 guys who are considered better than he is each year. If he doesn't get in, I think that this is where he will lose it.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

HHOF goalies are not put on waivers in their prime!

The Wings just traded for basically the best goalie in the WORLD and din't feel like haveing a back-up making $3M per season to ride the bench.

HHOF goalies aren't paid a million bucks! (maybe in the 80's)

at the time of Osgood's departure from the Wings, he was making great money for a Goaltender. PLUS he's always taken less to play here in Detroit.

HHOF goalies play internationally

Osgood had the misfortune of playing in the same era as a couple of other Canadian goalies named Roy and Brodeur. Osgood has had comparable numbers to both, much like Yzerman with Gretzky & Lemieux, yet he IS going to the Hall. If Roy or Brodeur were a different generation, we wouldn't be having this debate...

HHOF goalies win individual awards

See last above

HHOF goalies are PERENNIAL all stars

See two answers back...

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

Regardless of whether he is going to the Hall or not, I expect to see #30 hanging from the rafters at the Joe. Say what you will, but I don't think it would look right seeing another Red Wings wear #30 after Ozzie's time is up.

[titanium2 867]

Regardless of whether he is going to the Hall or not, I expect to see #30 hanging from the rafters at the Joe. Say what you will, but I don't think it would look right seeing another Red Wings wear #30 after Ozzie's time is up.

Now that would be interesting. Ozzie the first player to have a retired jersey as a Red Wing while not a member of the hall of fame.

[LeftWinger 5,130]

Now that would be interesting. Ozzie the first player to have a retired jersey as a Red Wing while not a member of the hall of fame.

edit: Steve Yzerman jersey in rafters for 4 years before he was elected, so no, not first...

[Hockeytown0001 7,652]

edit: Steve Yzerman jersey in rafters for 4 years before he was elected, so no, not first...

As was the case with Scott Stevens, Luc Robitaille, Patrick Roy (Colorado), Trevor Linden, and I imagine with Joe Sakic next season. I wouldn't think you'd need to be in the HOF before having your jersey # retired.

[titanium2 867]

edit: Steve Yzerman jersey in rafters for 4 years before he was elected, so no, not first...

Oh cut the bureaucratic bullcrap. Was it ever a question as to whether or not Stevie was going to be in the HOF?