Goon

[Guest micah]

Do you suppose Holland should gameplan for having one of his top pairing defensemen missing?

Yes, he should, and I suspect he did.

[Guest micah]

lol STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS... they won the f***in cup dude get over it... they beat the Wings in a 7 game series... period... they have the right to be called the STANLEY CUP CHAMPIONS

Eric F'n Godard, current Stanley Cup Champion!!!!

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yes, he should, and I suspect he did.

I suspect you know what I meant.

[Guest Shoreline]

We go them once, they've gotten us twice. It was very rewarding to see the Wings beat Anaheim, just because I hated seeing them pushed around in 07 and it was nice redemption.

But man, it wasnt just stifling defense, Anaheims forwards grinded on all the forwards. Datsyuk, Hossa, Holmstrom, all invisible, Marchant, Niedermayer and those guys finished every check on those guys. If not for the Zetterberg line and our depth forwards, we probably wouldnt have won. But if Rafalski's healthy all series I'd imagine we'd have won quicker, but that's just what ifs.

What you hated was the attitude the Ducks players displayed after the whistle, and for the most part, while they played at all. This didn't beat the Wings. What you remember is getting emotional about that, and you somehow blame that for the Ducks winning, and ride that emotion to wanting a fighter to engage in those pointless scrums, which, thankfully, Kenny hasn't bothered leaning toward, and it's led to 4 cups. I'm also told that I never watched the Wings in the late 90s so I will not remember that the Wings beat a "tough" Anaheim team in 97 too.

If it were not for the offense finding it's touch, rather than taking a bunch of dumb, bad angle shots from the outside like they were doing most of the series, Anaheim's strangling defense, shotblocking, sticks getting in the way, would have beaten the Wings like it did before in 2007 and 2003. Nothing to do with not fighting or taking hits, which occurs the same every season. I know I'm staring at futility by dismissing the religious argument of this team needing fighters, but hey, if it weren't fun(ny), I wouldn't bother.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shoreline

[Guest E_S_A_D]

There are only 3-4 true goons in the NHL. The goon has disappeared for the most part.

Now, Enforcer is another story... I won't school anyone on this at this time, because I'm busy posting in the Jiri Hudler thread regarding how he is not even worth the $2.75 and $3 mill the arbitrator ruled for him.

[skacore 2]

Eric F'n Godard, current Stanley Cup Champion!!!!

he probably ate frosted mini wheats out of the cup this very morning

[Guest micah]

he probably ate frosted mini wheats out of the cup this very morning

Probably.

I can't wait to watch this year's NHL! Fight numbers for the 08/09 season were up (again) and I expect this trend to continue. Many of the teams that will be in contention next year are also pretty darn tough, most of them have guys who are able and willing to tangle with the best. Heck, the defending stanley Cup Champions have choose to become more physically tough than they were this year, the Flyers and Bruins and Caps will be tough teams, the Ducks are still tough, this year should be a lot of fun! I really like the way this part of the game has been trending. It's a great time to be a hockey fan!

[Guest Shoreline]

It's also great to be a Wings fan, especially watching the fighting nuts squirm due to the Wings not addressing these guys' insecurities.

I enjoy fighting throughout the league and this Wings team who has better things to do, like that lame nonsense called scoring. Hope you can stomach watching the Red Wings.

I bet micah's so tough he tells friends his favorite NHL team is Brock Lesnar.

[Guest Shoreline]

IMHO both 97, and 98 Cups were won with not only by the Russian 5, the left-wing lock, but with thuggery/rough hockey as well (courtesy of Kocur, McCarty, and to lesser extents Shanhan, Lapointe, Rouse, Ward, Konstantinov, and Macoun).

The 2008/2009 Ducks would've gotten their asses handed to them on the scoreboard as well as several of them carted off via a stretcher had they tried that s*** with the guys mentioned above.....This is the kind of team many here would like to see, and yes they would be very competitive in todays game (contrary to the BS that the league is more skilled, and faster than it was 10 years ago).

Having those guys never stopped teams from playing dirty against the Wings before, why would it now? You guys really embellish what little toughness in those regards that team had, and make it like teams would be pissing themselves at the mighty 1997 Red Wings. I can't help but shake my head at why.

[Guest Shoreline]

Point is that we had guys back then that could handle the other teams thugs unlike today where our skill guys have to defend themselves.

So Shanahan or Lapointe can defend themselves but Datsyuk, Hossa, or Zetterberg can't? They seemed to hold their own well enough. They just aren't looking for fights. Then this team has agitators who doesn't need to drop the gloves to get under the skin of opponents. This view that the Wings get pushed around and that is has some effect on the team is pretty much fabricated by people as a way of tricking themselves into feeling more comfortable about some religious view of the Wings needing fighters.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Lilja is/was perfectly capable of defending himself, he just lost a fight.

Why is it that when you ask fans of teams from around the league what weakness the Wings may have - if any...Their reply is that the Wings are soft, and can be pushed around.

I doubt Wings' management holds the opinion of the nebulous "they" in high regard. The Wings handled themselves fine. Even when things got out of control and ended badly in Game 6 against the Ducks*, all they did was turn around and win the next game and the series.

*Aside: Which was bulls*** besides. Niedermayer hiding behind his visor and Getzlaf jumping a much smaller, unaware, non-fighter, just-coming-off-injury Rafalski from behind.

EDIT: For moar.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Heroes of Hockeytown

[Guest Shoreline]

IMO - no Dats/Hank/Hossa aren't capable of defending themselves, or at least aren't very good at it, and truth be told I don't want them too (see Kopecky/Lilja).

Why is it that when you ask fans of teams from around the league what weakness the Wings may have - if any...Their reply is that the Wings are soft, and can be pushed around.

Why is it that most GMs have a few, or more guys in their line-up that are capable of dropping the mitts from time to time?

Why is it that whenever guys like myself whom feel that the Wings could use some toughness to bolster the roster - guys like you claim we're insecure?

The insecure thing was more toward micah and because when someone needs to pronounce their masculinity so "flaming" like (notice how people are against gays doing the same) it's obviously because they're insecure and thus compensate by looking tougher. Similar thing with the big castle, little man philosophy.

The Wings have had guys who were more than willing to dance, this much is obvious, but how much they actually DID drop the gloves nullifies how much of use the fighting actually is, not to mention that these people had a primary role that served an actually useful purpose like scoring, grinding, mucking, being on a checking line and tilting the ice away from the opponents first line. The Wings have always been tough in a sense where they will hit and take hits. Fighting just hasn't been a big part of this team at all, and that my friend is something that certain fans have a tough time swallowing, and end up pretending like the Wings were some super tough team that no other team wanted to f*** with. They're essentially Hollywood-izing the Wings, like the movie Miracle to the actual Miracle on Ice. It's fine to want fighting for the sake of entertainment, but it's stupid to make stuff up to try and justify an obviously outstanding view that this team has been tough in that manner and is a weak ass ***** team now who can't defend themselves. There's nothing to back that view up at all, whereas there's more than enough proof to show the Wings aren't interested in fighting. How much they actually fight, i.e. total fighting majors, is relevant, and it points exactly to the opposite these few people claim.

[jollymania 162]

It's also great to be a Wings fan, especially watching the fighting nuts squirm due to the Wings not addressing these guys' insecurities.

I enjoy fighting throughout the league and this Wings team who has better things to do, like that lame nonsense called scoring. Hope you can stomach watching the Red Wings.

I bet micah's so tough he tells friends his favorite NHL team is Brock Lesnar.

agreed, we all know fights are fun and cool but seeing kronwall light up havlat like that erases any type of violence boredom that comes from only 10 fights (when they are needed) a year.

Edited August 4, 2009 by jollymania

[Guest micah]

I bet micah's so tough he tells friends his favorite NHL team is Brock Lesnar.

I had to google that name.

I'm not tough, just honest and honorable. Note that I don't run around facewashing people, on the ice or otherwise. I don't talk s*** to people if I'm unwilling to back it up. I don't lie. I don't fake injurries. I don't always have an easy time relating to less honorable people.

This year is going to be awesome. Things are looking up. icing a team of weenies who can't or won't fight was en vogue just a couple short years ago, now it seems the tide has turned and that the league's best teams are trending in a tougher direction. No doubt these teams will win games, and they'll likely win the league some fans. We all win thanks to the wisdom of the NHL's new-thinking GMs! Heck, even Holland is getting with the program, judging by this year's draft.

Let's go Red Wings (clap clap clapclapclap)!

[jollymania 162]

He was capable, but just not very good at it (contrary to what GMR Wings says )...Dunno if Babcock/Holland want to see our skill guys going toe-to-toe with an opponent whom is better suited for such activities.

You jsut ignore them, i can count one time the whole year where we needed one and it was against anaheim, but all their skill players are fighters so its a rare situation.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

You didn't refute a single thing I said, instead, you just make some stupid accusations that I've never seen the Red Wings pre.. some arbitrary year, over and over

Wow kid. Obviously you didn't read my post at all. I said the EXACT OPPOSITE. I said you must haven't seen the Red Wings play for the past 8 seasons. Not pre..some arbitrary year. Do you know how to read buddy? After all you said about Maltby my guess is 1999 was the last year you watched the Wings. And how did I not refute anything you said? I step by step refuted everything you said. Again, try READING.

Maltby was never a 30 goal scorer, this is not the role of a person who was on a "grind line" for most of his career

Maltby is lucky to be a 3 goal scorer each season. But his linemates who were also grinders(Draper, McCarty) we could rely on for many different things, whether it be Drapers speed, scoring and winning draws, or whether it be McCarty's clutch playoff scoring and his physical game and his fighting ability. Even back then the only thing Maltby could bring to the table was his ability to be an effective penalty killer. But guess what! HE IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE PK'ER ANYMORE! So the ONE thing he could do, he can't do anymore. And you yourself even said it's because he's old. Who cares what the reason is??? What ever the reason, he is completely worthless now.

seems to think Maltby needs to be scoring a s***load of goals to be effective in his role, or better yet, fighting. He NEVER has

I never said that. In fact, if you had actually READ MY POST. You would have seen that I said back in the day I would cut Maltby slack because even though he couldn't score, he was an effective penalty killer. Again, the one thing he was good for, he can't do anymore. At least a goon would bring SOMETHING to the table each night.

At least your post is so chalk-full of nonsensical bulls*** that you can't be taken seriously except by your fellow Wings-need-fighters cult-like crew.

Wow, hilarious coming from the guy who DID NOT EVEN READ MY POST. I know for sure that you didn't read it. Considering my last sentence was something along the lines of "I don't think a goon is absolutely necessary, but if a guy like Maltby holds a spot, why shouldn't a goon take his spot?

Talk about someone not being taken seriously? Sounds like you just described yourself perfectly. How about this time you read my post. That way you don't make yourself look foolish. How's that for refuting everything you said?? Sorry buddy but you're delusional about Maltby.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yes the Wings won by 1 goal with 30 seconds on the clock; not like they dominated the game, or the series as some would like to think; could've gone either way

Point is they won.

incidents like that would've been handled by guys much more capable...

Probably with Shanny, but Stevie and Feds wouldn't have done any better. It's a non-issue since it didn't have any effect on anything that followed anyways. The sun rose the next day, Game 7 commenced, and everything that happened in Game 6 was rendered meaningless.

[Guest micah]

Wow kid. Obviously you didn't read my post at all. I said the EXACT OPPOSITE. I said you must haven't seen the Red Wings play for the past 8 seasons. Not pre..some arbitrary year. Do you know how to read buddy? After all you said about Maltby my guess is 1999 was the last year you watched the Wings. And how did I not refute anything you said? I step by step refuted everything you said. Again, try READING.

Try putting on some tight leather pants and a really mean look and singing to him, that'll get his attention.

[Heroes of Hockeytown 694]

Yes they did win, and for that I was damn proud of them!...However I felt that series against the Ducks really wore our team down.

Maybe, but mostly it seemed that the Wings just kept getting hurt in new and wacky ways. Nick got his nads chopped off, Pavel had his foot broken by a shot (both of these were actually against the Hawks), Rafalski broke his back getting out of his car; I don't remember when Cleary pulled his groin, but that's something that can happen to a player at anytime. What can men do against such rotten luck?

[Guest Shoreline]

Wow kid. Obviously you didn't read my post at all. I said the EXACT OPPOSITE. I said you must haven't seen the Red Wings play for the past 8 seasons. Not pre..some arbitrary year. Do you know how to read buddy? After all you said about Maltby my guess is 1999 was the last year you watched the Wings. And how did I not refute anything you said? I step by step refuted everything you said. Again, try READING.

That's funny because I've posted on this very forum for the last 5-6 seasons. You have the wonderful foresight of a blind person. You might need an equivalent sight dog to help you with posting too.

Maltby is lucky to be a 3 goal scorer each season. But his linemates who were also grinders(Draper, McCarty) we could rely on for many different things, whether it be Drapers speed, scoring and winning draws, or whether it be McCarty's clutch playoff scoring and his physical game and his fighting ability. Even back then the only thing Maltby could bring to the table was his ability to be an effective penalty killer. But guess what! HE IS NOT AN EFFECTIVE PK'ER ANYMORE! So the ONE thing he could do, he can't do anymore. And you yourself even said it's because he's old. Who cares what the reason is??? What ever the reason, he is completely worthless now.

SO if Malts is not an effective PKer, why the f*** is he always on the PK? Is Babs retarded and you're brilliant? Where are your cup championships? Why did team Canada select him and not Mac?

I never said that. In fact, if you had actually READ MY POST. You would have seen that I said back in the day I would cut Maltby slack because even though he couldn't score, he was an effective penalty killer. Again, the one thing he was good for, he can't do anymore. At least a goon would bring SOMETHING to the table each night.

They'd bring PIMs to the table. They wouldn't play in the playoffs, as customary with this team, so you'd have a person sitting in the press box taking up cap space. Good thing you're not a GM.

Wow, hilarious coming from the guy who DID NOT EVEN READ MY POST. I know for sure that you didn't read it. Considering my last sentence was something along the lines of "I don't think a goon is absolutely necessary, but if a guy like Maltby holds a spot, why shouldn't a goon take his spot?

Because Maltby does more than your awesome goon would. I take it from the current coach that this is what the situation is. You, on the other hand, are probably getting your cues from something else. I dunno, an obsession with goons? NHL 09? Who knows, who cares. It's wrong.

Talk about someone not being taken seriously? Sounds like you just described yourself perfectly. How about this time you read my post. That way you don't make yourself look foolish. How's that for refuting everything you said?? Sorry buddy but you're delusional about Maltby.

Oh dear you really refuted me. Maltby sucks so bad team Canada selects him, and Babs plays him on the PK, and Malts, as you claim, cannot do it without Drapes or Mac. Who's the foolish one? Maybe if you post "read" a few more times you'll compensate for a horrendous argument.

Try putting on some tight leather pants and a really mean look and singing to him, that'll get his attention.

Sounds like a UFC/WWE enforcer in speedos. Are we talking about me here, or you? Sounds a lot like you and your tough guys.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Shoreline

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

Try putting on some tight leather pants and a really mean look and singing to him, that'll get his attention.

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

SO if Malts is not an effective PKer, why the f*** is he always on the PK? Is Babs retarded and you're brilliant? Where are your cup championships? Why did team Canada select him and not Mac?

He IS NOT always on the PK. Jesus dude. You wonder why I say "read my post" a lot. Either you can't read properly, or you choose to argue with a post you didn't fully look over. Either way it makes you look like a fool. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa saw WAY MORE PK time than Maltby. Gee I wonder why? Could it have something to do with the fact that he isn't close to as good as he used to be at the one thing he could do effectively in the past?

Oh dear you really refuted me. Maltby sucks so bad team Canada selects him, and Babs plays him on the PK, and Malts, as you claim, cannot do it without Drapes or Mac. Who's the foolish one? Maybe if you post "read" a few more times you'll compensate for a horrendous argument.

HAHAHA....wow....all I can say is wow....I NEVER said Matlby can't do it without Draper or Mac. I love how you come up with these random things off the top of your head. Again, DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ???????? My God dude. I mean seriously, no joke, do you know how to read? I said Maltby USED TO BE A GOOD PK'ER. And now he is NOT. And since he brings NOTHING else to the table. I view him as worthless. Whereas a goon would at least make others pay for all the cheap dirty things done to our superstars. What does that have to do with Draper or Mac??? WTF?

The only reason he was selected to team Canada(which I think only happened once) was because he was still a fairly good PK'er at that point. Notice how he hasn't been selected since and he never will.

So I think you need a few more read my post, read my post, read my post. I've never seen anyone on this site argue points without reading the other person's counterpoints. It's pretty laughable...just like your delusions about worthless Maltby.

I'm done arguing with someone that can't read.

Edited August 4, 2009 by TheDetroitRedWings

[TheDetroitRedWings 286]

However I felt that series against the Ducks really wore our team down.

Agreed.

[Guest Shoreline]

Maybe if you post "read" a few more times you'll compensate for a horrendous argument.

He IS NOT always on the PK. Jesus dude. You wonder why I say "read my post" a lot. Either you can't read properly, or you choose to argue with a post you didn't fully look over. Either way it makes you look like a fool. Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Hossa saw WAY MORE PK time than Maltby. Gee I wonder why? Could it have something to do with the fact that he isn't close to as good as he used to be at the one thing he could do effectively in the past?

HAHAHA....wow....all I can say is wow....I NEVER said Matlby can't do it without Draper or Mac. I love how you come up with these random things off the top of your head. Again, DO YOU KNOW HOW TO READ???????? My God dude. I mean seriously, no joke, do you know how to read? I said Maltby USED TO BE A GOOD PK'ER. And now he is NOT. And since he brings NOTHING else to the table. I view him as worthless. Whereas a goon would at least make others pay for all the cheap dirty things done to our superstars. What does that have to do with Draper or Mac??? WTF?

The only reason he was selected to team Canada(which I think only happened once) was because he was still a fairly good PK'er at that point. Notice how he hasn't been selected since and he never will.

So I think you need a few more read my post, read my post, read my post. I've never seen anyone on this site argue points without reading the other person's counterpoints. It's pretty laughable...just like your delusions about worthless Maltby.

I'm done arguing with someone that can't read.

So predictable.

At that point which was a few seasons ago. But since I don't read I guess it wasn't you blamed Draper and Mac for Maltby's success, and downplayed his talents. Then, of course, you made sure to read, yourself, when I joined this forum so I couldn't have possibly watched, or even heard of, the Red Wings while being a member of a Wings forum for 6 years. Try taking your own advice.

If Malts weren't a good PKer, he wouldn't be on the PK. Simple as that. Since he is, Babs wouldn't put on the PK someone who sucks or is worthless, as you put it. I didn't read that though, of course.

You should have been done after the first post.

[Peleshob 0]

I don't know how anyone can say that Maltby IS a good penalty killer. He used to be, sure... but he's lost a step and is basically worn right out now. He made some noise in the playoffs, but he's pretty much done.

You want to argue that he played on the PK? He was 10th on the team in PK time on ice. He played a total of 98:36 on the PK all season. Guess who played about 3:30 less than him? The defensive liability known as Brian Rafalski. It's one thing if you wanna say Malts provides some good leadership and at least attempts to bring it in the post-season, but don't call the guy a good PK'er or say he spends a lot of time on the PK. He doesn't.